Pros & Cons of Early SRS

[Cindy]

Wow.

I wouldn't know where to start, responding to every, equally wonderful post.  And my feet are killing me... here's what I have learned from my first full day of RLE:

• Break in new heels before spending all day in them.
  

Here's my take on transitioning... there are physical, emotional, social, legal and even political aspects (as TaoRaven eloquently expresses). Many aspects, but they all blend together.  The aspects interact: they can't be (or shouldn't be) taken in isolation. 

I would be more comfortable with the idea of gatekeepers if they were themselves transgendered. 

Waiting 6 months for hormones did not benefit me one bit.  It didn't make me wiser.  In fact the anxiety of having to deal with a foot-dragging therapist (whom I've since swapped out for somebody that I 'click' with) probably held back my progress toward RLE... which we all agree is the sine qua non of transition. 

So back to my first day of RLE... I'm soaking my feet in a basin of salt water right now and laughing.  First time I've had a chance to turn on my laptop today. 

Began the day last night, on a red-eye from the West Coast... waited an hour for beverage service to be over and folks to fall asleep.... went to the stall bathroom and changed there, emerging as Karla.

It could have been a pain, in such cramped quarters, but thanks to previous experience and a dry run the day before, I emerged smoothly, glided back to my aisle seat in the darkened cabin... and fell asleep myself.

On landing in the morning, my neighbour appeared not to notice or care that he had fallen asleep next to an androgynous-dressed guy, and woken up next to a younger redheaded woman.  So far so good.  The rest of the trip was uneventful... more smiles than usual seemed to be the only difference.  Maybe they just saw that I was happy, and responded in kind.  Picking up my car, I chatted and laughed with the lady in the booth where I paid too much for parking. 

Watched the speed limits on my way home, worried about what would happen if pulled over...

On returning home, I dropped by the neighbour's for a scotch... had come out to him a few months previously, so no surprises... and again, today we just picked up our friendship as if nothing had happened.  The dress was a marginal change, compared to my personality changes (for the better).

On returning home, discovered a box waiting for me from Zappos: two pairs of heels which did not fit, and a beautiful formal dress that had me in tears of joy when i tried it on, a black side-draped dress that moves really nicely with me, and a designer blouse that pinched me under my arms, looked terrible on me and had me wondering why I bought it... because it cost as much as the formal dress.

Picked up my son from my ex for the weekend... interesting: she was nicer to me than she'd been in months.  Shock?  Perhaps.  We made small talk. 

Must go, time to tidy up and start the woodstove.   I'm so sleepy... but I'd rather stay up!   

Anyway, that was my first full day; it was a good one and I'm happy to share it with all of you as a pleasant switch from my angst of the week previous...

Glad you had a great day!!!

Well done. And heels Oh ye.

I remember an orthopaedic surgeon friend saying to me 'Thank God woman love high heels, otherwise I could never have afforded the Ferrari'

Hee hee

[Doctorwho?]

There is an entire list and network of ICATH affiliated physicians and therapists who disagree with your assertions. See, I guess the whole "helping people" and "doing what's right" concept is catching on.

And there are therapists who will write referral letters with as little as a single visit, should one wish to employ the services of a WPATH adherent surgeon.

I don't mean to be rude...but you may want to put aside your predispositions and actually look around a bit. Things aren't quite as cut and dry as you seem to want to believe. endof.

I think you may have misread me slightly. Maybe my language was unhelpful but I certainly don't believe anything is cut and dried at all.

In fact that is precisely my point. In all medicine there is a process or tests to be gone through and the outcome of that process can not be at all certain until you have followed the path and arrived at a differential diagnosis. Even then the diagnosis is only a best probability, and can be changed as new information arrives. The diagnostic process itself can also be changed in response to evidence, and there are always people who will trial new processes. However in this regard, at least, the evidence is difficult to establish due to the the lack of reliable physiological tests.

Now you may be right, in your part of the world there may indeed be people who are using a different approach, and it may indeed eventually become more widespread, but it hasn't as yet, at least not in my part of the world.

Finally let me slightly apologise. Perhaps I lost sight of my own main point here - which was really that this sort of discussion always has to bear in mind that while the patient is rightly at the centre of the process, a clinician attending them will also have human thoughts, emotions, etc and cannot be simply regarded as an "on demand" automaton. I felt this was the tone that I was hearing from some of the comments. I feel that the thread had started to sound as if the clinician and their need to feel that they were genuinely helping someone was completely irrelevant, and that all that mattered was that they were doing what you asked them to do, irrespective of any reservations or questions that they may have had. That would not be medicine as I understand it. I apologise if perhaps I slightly over-spoke in irritation at that.

Yes the aim is to alleviate suffering, but the fact that there are people who later have regrets proves the point that this is not a situation with 100% certainty. All I would want to feel as a clinician is that I had done my very best to ensure that the patient has made a good choice. As a future clinician I feel I would I need a process or test of some sort which enables me to have confidence that I had done my best to ensure that the patient was indeed making an informed decision, because I care about the outcome. I'm sure there are those who can adopt the position "well the patient chose badly so that's their fault, and I've got their fees so it's all good." I'm afraid I and most others I know couldn't. That's all I'm saying really.

In any case my views are only my views and unlikely to affect anything, as gender work is not really my intended field.

[Cindy]

This may be an odd post, for a change.

I love children.

I gave up being a pediatric oncologist because I could not take the personal emotion. It was literally killing me. (It was a he at the time).

I'm fine with adult oncology and I dabble in paediatric now as my opinion is asked for.

I was talking to the 'gatekeepers' in psychiatry recently on trans issues. Many are leaving, there are no new people coming on (here); Why?

Guess what? they are fed up with the abuse, the constraints and the ignorance of their position.

Is their any appreciation of their opinion, their position? No.

Put yourself in my position, for a second.
Most trans*people under informed consent can get (MtF) HRT in 3 sessions. If they have co-morbidities it is longer.  If you want surgery, IMO opinion it takes time. The socialization, acceptance everything then comes into play.

I do not think that is unreasonable.

But I'm old


And I have had enough of this discussion.

It is going circular.

Hugs

Cindy

[anjaq]

Yes, it is going circular. Some people will always think that an individual's choice is primary and other should more or less follow that decision if that is perceived to be their job, but I get the impresison that even most transpeople understand that there is value in doing this in a reasonable pace, that it is good to have a guide that minds that pace and personally I do understand the doctors well who do not want to rush things. Especially permanent decisions. The timeframe indeed can be much shorter. I know of people who prepared everything, then did RLE and shortly thereafter HRT (within less than 3 months) and within the year had SRS. Of course they worked a lot with the therapist, spent more money on therapy hours and more time sitting in there and going through the usual stuff with the therapists. Of course the decisionmakers are a position of power and I understand well that some of them may abuse that power, e.g. if they have their very own sterotypes that they want to be fulfilled, like those who will not count it a RLE if you do not wear skirts. But overall I think they are here to help and want to make sure that their patients know what they are doing before consenting to a surgery. And heck, even the more decent and professional tattoo shops and body modificators do such things, they will tell people to consider this more or even refuse to do some modifications if they do not think that their client really permanently wants that change. Undoubtedly there are cases where people think they want something to happen and later regret it and that has to be minimized - for the sake of the people themselves and the sake of the professionals who are the cause of it. It is little relief in emotional terms if a patient commits suicide because of a surgery you performed even if you cannot legally be touched because of some paperwork.
I must admit that there were times I saw this differently - when I was in that situation of "I need to have this". This was more true with HRT than with SRS though. I found it annoying to have to talk to the therapist so often and was afraid that he might deny me my path. Which now I realize is nonsense as this is not their job at all. I was afraid that he would after a year of RLE say "no, sorry, you are not transsexual, please go back" - which he NEVER would do to anyone as there is no such test and it already all depends on the patient. So in reality the worst he could have done to me is to postpone my SRS plans for some more time to allow me to sort out my own insecurities. Luckily that was not needed. I had a watershed moment some months before SRS that basically eliminated any doubts in myself about it and I think he knew that and then agreed to the surgery.

Anyways, nice to hear the story about the plane and all that - what an unusual place to start the RLE - hehe, but pretty neat. Sounds like you are doing well and I am sure that if you are determined to get there, you do not have to wait for too long to get the treatments you want to have. And I know again why I hate these high heeled shows after reading this LOL.

[TaoRaven]

Well I honestly hope that I didn't accidentally make it seem like I was expecting Surgeons to dispense SRS like machines. That is not it at all.

I personally think that a couple of years of HRT, and as much RLE that can be had should proceed an SRS. But not as some mandatory condition.

Many of us don't figure out (or admit to ourselves) that we are transgendered until our middle years or later. At that point, some of us have led some very painful, broken lives as a result of trying to fit in as the wrong gender.

To have to spend an obscene amount of money over an artificially lengthened process getting permission from gatekeepers to finally live happy, whole lives seems to me to be an atrocity. "No, I am sorry, you have not suffered enough, and you have not paid the toll."

Some less fortunate, and less financially well-off people end up going broke on therapist bills and never achieve SRS, following the traditional WPATH method. One wonders how many suicides and cases of self-mutilation result from this barrier alone??

Yes, of course some people are going to have regrets when all is done...but that is true of pretty much every decision in life. I don't think there really is any way to rule out that possibility. People regret having children and drown the poor things. Are there gatekeepers involved in childbirth??

In my part of the world (being the United States, by the way), there is a growing network of people who are asking these, and other probing questions about the nature of ->-bleeped-<-. Some of us (including some researchers in Arizona) are even beginning to wonder if this birth defect might even be hereditary.

The "old system" has for so long been focused on this issue being a mental disorder that the medical aspects have been long swept under the rug. This is changing now, and the system really needs to keep up with the times. This is not the 50's, or the 70's. We are not mentally disturbed freaks. We are people who are suffering, and that suffering needs to be alleviated without an unbearable financial cost or artificially inflated timeline.

I am sorry if I have posted too frequently in this thread, but this is a very sensitive, and important subject to me. I have not meant to offend anyone, only to make a viewpoint and some resources known that might not have been. My words can come across as harsh or hostile at times (so I am told) and this is not my intention. I think I sometimes lack the empathy, or "humanity" to see how cold and unfriendly I may sound.

For that I apologize. 

[anjaq]

Hi, Raven

I personally think that a couple of years of HRT, and as much RLE that can be had should proceed an SRS. But not as some mandatory condition.

I think for few not it is years. Rather 1-2 years I figure. Plus the time maybe you need to get the money, but thats not the therapists fault.

To have to spend an obscene amount of money over an artificially lengthened process getting permission from gatekeepers to finally live happy, whole lives seems to me to be an atrocity. "No, I am sorry, you have not suffered enough, and you have not paid the toll."

I hope that you realize that this is most certainly not what is going on. I doubt any of the medical people wish to see you suffer and honestly this is what pre-SRS "RLE" is about - living that full life and see if it fits. SRS is then just the finalization of that step and I think no one will deny this after doing RLE for some time. I think it has to be understood that RLT or RLE is all too often thought of as a temporary thing one has to burden oneself with. But what should happen and that is what the shrienks are waiting for is that you skip the last letter of that and it simply becomes your RL, your Real Life. At that point, I would say, you are ready for SRS and an experienced gender therapist will notice that point - be it less than a year in the process or after 2 or even 3 years.
I really hate it if financial restrictions come into play in this whole issue, this is just not right. No one should have to rush towards SRS out of financial pressures, because therapists are too expensive or therelike. It is a process that has to be carefully managed and not given up to libertarian ideas. I would never have made it financially (and as a result probably overall) if I was not in Germany and I am grateful for that. I guess all that is left for US people then is to choose a therapist that does a good job with a low number of sessions?

Yes, of course some people are going to have regrets when all is done...but that is true of pretty much every decision in life. I don't think there really is any way to rule out that possibility. People regret having children and drown the poor things. Are there gatekeepers involved in childbirth??

One can at least minimize the number of regrets and with childbearing there is a huge difference - you are not asking of anyone to do anything that could be harmful. No one has to put a knife to your body and take part of the guilt on himself if things so south.

The "old system" has for so long been focused on this issue being a mental disorder that the medical aspects have been long swept under the rug. We are not mentally disturbed freaks.

Yes that is true and I am actually a bit surprised that there is new medical evidence of this. I did not look at all at TG issues for the past decade and back in my days there was basically only one study that looked at brains of TS people compared to others and that had interesting results. But that does not change everything unless a diagnosis can be developed from them that is reliable. So I agree with the doctor here that until then, the guidance is needed and maybe even beyond that because medical or mental reason - transition is exactly the same with the same issues, the same social consequences, the same dysphoria and the same need to take care of a person before going forward with SRS. It still remains a huge surgery and a big step and a huge change in the body that a patient has to mentally prepare for, ideally also be prepared for the risks. I was not prepared for that for example and had still quite pink glasses on going to the hospital. I was not mature enough to fully realize the risks. I would have done it even if I would have been better prepared but as it was the partial failure of my first SRS had really ill effects on my mental health. But I disgress - maybe it is also an age thing. A 40 year old may be more able to judge for herself than someone like me at 25 or someone at 18.

[TaoRaven]

Some Stuff

Indeed, it would seem that 1-2, or in some cases three years is the optimal length of time for HRT before SRS surgery. The longer one waits after beginning the HRT, the more the "materials" that will be used in the SRS surgery may shrink. Sadly, many people spend much more time, simply because of the cost of the SRS surgery.....especially if they are paying for therapist bills to boot.

Honestly, RLE should not be a mandatory, prescribed exercise, but rather the ultimate goal of transition and a natural occurrence. There are examples on this very forum where people are forced to undergo RLE for an extended time before even being prescribed HRT. There are examples in the state that I live in where people are forced to undergo RTL without a prayer of passing, and are physically assaulted as a result.

The current, widely mandated system of WPATH is broken. It simply causes more issues than it prevents, and I'm sorry, but I find it inhumane. Using the ICATH model of Informed Consent, the years of therapist bills and dancing through hoops are eliminated. Therapy becomes an option for those who feel that they need or want it, as it should be. No sadistic gatekeeper (not saying all of them are, but they do exist) can force a trans woman to wear skirts to work for a year, or conform to some parody of womanhood, as a condition to obtaining a letter.

And this is, as I have said, also about adults making adult decisions. There is no therapist at the liquor store making sure that customers will not regret their decisions under the influence of alcohol. No therapists at tattoo shops. No therapists at tobacco shops. Consistency, please. There is really no sound reason to single us out. People make decisions every single day that impact the rest of their lives, in major ways.

I agree that the risks and possible consequences of the steps along transition, including SRS, must be clearly explained to the patient. It is not a decision to be taken lightly. For many of us, myself included...it is not a decision at all, but a need in order to feel whole, and comfortable in their own skin.

See, the ICATH model puts forth (and science and medicine are making some interesting supportive findings) that trans people are not mental patients who believe that they are a gender other than the one they were born with, but rather they are the gender that they are claiming to be, and were born with the opposing gender's body parts.

To make this clear...It is not that I think or want to be female....I am female. But my body is not. There is nothing wrong with my mind, it is my body that needs medical attention, to correct a birth defect.

Which of course makes the large part of the WPATH system redundant and irrelevant.

It is time to advance transgender studies, and bring them in line with modern science and medicine, and to cast off old, out-moded lines of thinking that cause more harm than good.

[anjaq]

Indeed, it would seem that 1-2, or in some cases three years is the optimal length of time for HRT before SRS surgery. [...]Sadly, many people spend much more time, simply because of the cost of the SRS surgery

So how exactly is that the therapists fault then? I doubt that many therapists or "gatekeepers" demand of their patients to wait for more than 2 years after HRT and RLE

Honestly, RLE should not be a mandatory, prescribed exercise, but rather the ultimate goal of transition and a natural occurrence. There are examples on this very forum where people are forced to undergo RLE for an extended time before even being prescribed HRT. There are examples in the state that I live in where people are forced to undergo RTL without a prayer of passing, and are physically assaulted as a result.

We have to agree that we disagree on some accounts here. I think RLE should be mandatory before SRS for the reasons I wrote about previously. I agree however that RLE should not be mandatory for HRT, these two should go more hand in hand. That is my opinion of course, maybe there are arguments for RLE before HRT, but I can only say that my personal experience was that I would have been very afraid to do a RLE before HRT and in fact it would not have worked with my kind of transition which was basically a sliding over as HRT changed my body, I dropped more and more of the fake male behaviour and slightly shifted clothing. I think it may have been hard to justify in front of therapists that I considered walking around like that as RLE. So I cannot comment much on that part - I DIYd with hormones and found a nice general practitioner that did the blood levels for me. But in case of SRS I think the waiting period is bearable and needed, as I keep saying, SRS does not change 1% of your daily life - better get the 99% done first.

No sadistic gatekeeper (not saying all of them are, but they do exist) can force a trans woman to wear skirts

I get that. But I would think that it is your own choice to change therapist, isnt it?

And this is, as I have said, also about adults making adult decisions. There is no therapist at the liquor store making sure that customers will not regret their decisions under the influence of alcohol. No therapists at tattoo shops. No therapists at tobacco shops.

Again that is very different. a) the impact of SRS is a lot bigger than drinking a beer and b) at the tobacco shop you are not asking anyone to put a knife to your body in a surgery that could kill you.
Again, this argument is about SRS. I would be inclinded that HRT should be something that should be prescribed by others than just therapist-advised doctors, but maybe general practitioners. To give it over-the-counter would be harmful however as well.

And regarding adults - not all TG people would be considered adults (meaning over 21) plus many do not act as adults in the time they basically have a female adolescent persona emerging that did not have the chance to be an adult yet - I mean this not as a multiple personality kind of thing but those aspects of a TG that have not had the chance to grow up but had to hide behind a fake persona suddenly take over the steering wheel - Just look at some of the TG in their first days of transition. They wear clothes appropriate for a 16 year old! But again, the main arguments are others and I have elaborated on them before.

I agree that the risks and possible consequences of the steps along transition, including SRS, must be clearly explained to the patient. It is not a decision to be taken lightly. For many of us, myself included...it is not a decision at all, but a need in order to feel whole, and comfortable in their own skin.

Yes of course - and it is not as much about the decision itself, as I said before that decision is often already done when transition is started. But it is about being ready for that moment, so rushing this within less than a year is IMO dangerous and doing SRS before any RLE is reckless.

To make this clear...It is not that I think or want to be female....I am female. But my body is not. There is nothing wrong with my mind, it is my body that needs medical attention, to correct a birth defect. [...]
It is time to advance transgender studies, and bring them in line with modern science and medicine, and to cast off old, out-moded lines of thinking that cause more harm than good.

No argument against that - yes, there should be more research done, but fact is that ATM there is not enough data, not a test you can do to test for trans - you cannot go and make a CT or MRT and have a doctor tell you that indeed your brain is female. If that ever happens, I can imagine that some things change. But even then I would argue that one will need some counselling when transitioning and some guidelines and caretakers who make sure that one does not get into a rush but rather acts considerate.

[Karla]

Yes, trying on is great fun, TaoRaven... not unlike diving in the deep end without knowing the water temperature, but oh so much fun once you're in !!!

There's a trans-friendly thrift store in Dallas, when I'm there i take an afternoon off and spend it chatting with the ladies there and trying things on endlessly.  The hours pass quickly... 

Because I live in the sticks, there's no shopping unless on a business trip.  So i mail order most things... even some groceries.

I order from Zappos because of their free shipping and free returns... one pair of shoes _almost_ fit width-wise... the M appears to be a tad too narrow; I plan to also order the W so i can tell the difference.  Not too many mail order houses that allow craziness like that... but they sure got my business. 

And this is why I am afraid of ordering clothes/wigs/etc online...I need to be able to try stuff on first. That and it's fun

[Anatta]

Kia Ora,

The simple truth.....When it comes to the "Pros & Cons of SRS".....In the long run, only time will tell....

Metta Zenda

[TaoRaven]

Yes, trying on is great fun, TaoRaven... not unlike diving in the deep end without knowing the water temperature, but oh so much fun once you're in !!!

There's a trans-friendly thrift store in Dallas, when I'm there i take an afternoon off and spend it chatting with the ladies there and trying things on endlessly.  The hours pass quickly... 

Because I live in the sticks, there's no shopping unless on a business trip.  So i mail order most things... even some groceries.

I order from Zappos because of their free shipping and free returns... one pair of shoes _almost_ fit width-wise... the M appears to be a tad too narrow; I plan to also order the W so i can tell the difference.  Not too many mail order houses that allow craziness like that... but they sure got my business.

Oh really?? I am planning on doing some of my more sensitive hair removal in Dallas, and have some friends down that way I was planning to visit. We were going to try to have the ultimate "Epic Shopping Trip" while I was down there I may just have to find this thrift store you speak of

I feel your pain on the shoes.....I am a 10w. Thankfully my room mate is a tall German woman, and has the same shoe size as me, so I borrow her shoes regularly

[TaoRaven]

some more stuff

I will quickly address a couple points, and then I feel that I must back off here. As much as I am enjoying this stimulating conversation, I feel that I am hijacking the thread, or maybe making people uncomfortable, and that is the last thing I want to do. I also don't want to seem "preachy".

You asked me "So how exactly is that the therapists fault then?", and my response to that would be that it is rather indirectly the fault of the therapist. These people charge a lot of money, and depending on the patient's insurance, these visits may not be covered. It is very difficult to save up $20-50k for many people, and when paying steep therapist bills, it can become neigh impossible to do so.

I agree that RLE should be a natural occurrence. As HRT does it's thing, it should just happen on it's own. I don't agree that it should be FORCED, however. Maybe the patient wants to be a bit of a tomboy?? Maybe the patient doesn't care for traditionally "girly" attire, and prefers leather pants and band shirts? It is not unheard of for a therapist to decide that this does not fit the criteria that he/she expects the patient to adhere to, and to be hesitant or out-right refuse to grant a letter on these grounds.

I don't draw a harsh line between life-altering decisions. SRS is simply one among countless decisions that can change or end one's life (including other forms of elective surgery). We will have to agree to disagree on this point. And yes, some adults don't necessarily ACT like adults, but that doesn't invalidate their rights...at least in this country.

And no, there is currently no medical way to observe a physical phenomenon within the body and draw a medical diagnosis for ->-bleeped-<-. This may change, but honestly, I don't feel that it is necessary. SRS is a form of cosmetic, elective surgery. There are many different procedures that fall under this category, but only ONE that has such restrictive and draconian restrictions and guidelines. Is this because this surgery is really so different, or because of the perceived social, ethical, and moral stigma of modifying one's physical gender??

I believe it is the latter. I think it's simply part of the stigma attached to be a trans person....that we are being singled out simply because of the nature of our condition. And I believe with my whole heart that this is wrong, and unjust.

100% equality. Nothing more, nothing less.

[anjaq]

Agreed - we do disagree and I will refrain from replying to this. I still think that a better fix for the financial issues would be a better health care system because I think financial considerations should have no place at all in any stage of transitioning.
And I believe in my case at least, going to the therapist in jeans and t-shirt but definitely identifyable as a female actually helped the whole process. That way I was myself and not a sterotype. It was hopefully obvious to him that what I wanted had zip to do with clothes but all to do with my body and my identity, so I did not have to wait at all really. But I accept that there are shrienks out there that may see this differently and I dont get them - which woman with a testosterone-poisoned body would want to dress in a way that sticks out - I personally think that doing the whole skirts-only and high heels and tons of makeup thing actually is a minus for some therapists, as they will have to make a differential diagnosis and have to exclude fetishism.

Anyways - last words. Thread already is hijacked sadly. Sorry for that.

Thrift stores are cool, if you have a size that is common. So many different looks to try for not a lot of money.

[Karla]

Here you go: Larger than Life, http://largerthanliferesale.com/   12817 Preston Rd # 136, Dallas,TX 75230
Conveniently located on the SW corner of Preston and LBJ/635

Transition ought to be fun.

Oh really?? I am planning on doing some of my more sensitive hair removal in Dallas, and have some friends down that way I was planning to visit. We were going to try to have the ultimate "Epic Shopping Trip" while I was down there I may just have to find this thrift store you speak of

I feel your pain on the shoes.....I am a 10w. Thankfully my room mate is a tall German woman, and has the same shoe size as me, so I borrow her shoes regularly

[TaoRaven]

Here you go: Larger than Life, http://largerthanliferesale.com/   12817 Preston Rd # 136, Dallas,TX 75230
Conveniently located on the SW corner of Preston and LBJ/635

Transition ought to be fun.

AHHH!!! Thank you!!!!  

I am such a shameless shop-a-holic  


And yes, I agree...it SHOULD be!!! In fact, these are the happiest days of my life

as my best friend says to me..."make the rest of your life, the best of your life".

[TaoRaven]

Oh...one more thing...found this tid bit, and thought it relevant:

Many plants and animals can be both male and female, biologically speaking, at the same time or at different points in their lives. In a comparison of 34 postmortem human brains, scientists found that the part of the brain comprising a small group of nerve cells thought to pertain to gender and sexuality were similar in trans women and non-trans women. Although the study only had one trans man's brain, it found that group of nerve cells to be similar to that of a non-trans man. Perhaps Dr. Milton Diamond put it best when he said, "Biology loves variation. Biology loves differences. Society hates it."

perhaps a medical diagnosis is not as far off as we might have thought....

[FrancisAnn]

I've often wondered why it is such a big deal to society. Why all the concern? Why all the hate?

All a person such as myself wants to do is change their gender.

Yet so much trouble & concern for a persons private decision. If a person wants & needs this improvement for their life why does society & our medical system make it so difficult?

MTF always since childhood. So many therapist & delays I could write a book, etc.........

[Northern Jane]

......... I agree that RLE should be a natural occurrence. As HRT does it's thing, it should just happen on it's own. I don't agree that it should be FORCED, however.......

That would, of course, be the ideal case!

At 15 or 16 years of age I was living part time as either gender (as the situation allowed or demanded) and had no difficulty switching back and forth and being accepted (though I am not sure my 'boy mode' was as convincing). I started HRT at 17 and by the time I went to college at 19 I simply could not pull off 'boy mode' though there was no way to change my legal status in those days (1969) without SRS (which wasn't available). I had met with the Registrar and all my college records were set up as gender-less and I refused to admit my gender so I must say that I confused the heck out of most people. The general assumption was that I was a girl trying to pass as a guy to attend technical school, very much like the movie "Yentl" When SRS became available (1974) 'transition' was a snap.

I've often wondered why it is such a big deal to society. Why all the concern? Why all the hate?

Quite simple my dear! Sex/gender is something deeply seated in the human psyche and at the base of how people define themselves. The connection between sex and gender is assumed to be innate and immutable so must people never think about it ....... until they encounter a transsexual. At that point the very basis of their own identity is no longer as secure and that makes them uncomfortable.

There is also the fragility of the male sexuality. The vast majority of men are extremely homophobic and the very idea that they could be attracted to or become involved with someone who "wasn't born female", either knowingly or otherwise, calls in to question their own heterosexuality and that scares the dickens out of them!

Why such a big deal? Because we call into question the security of their own 'sacred premise' of sex=gender=sexuality.

[anjaq]

Sex/gender is something deeply seated in the human psyche and at the base of how people define themselves. The connection between sex and gender is assumed to be innate and immutable so must people never think about it ....... until they encounter a transsexual. At that point the very basis of their own identity is no longer as secure and that makes them uncomfortable.

There is also the fragility of the male sexuality. The vast majority of men are extremely homophobic [...]

I personally do not think this is a thinkg of the "human psyche". I think it is very much a social issue that genders are seen that restriced in our cultures. Others do not have that issue in that way. They have official and accepted placed for transgendered people, like the "two spirits" in indigenous North America. I think the second part hits it on the nail though - it is about male insecurity regarding sex plus the homophobia that is rampant in our society. Again, that is not a universal truth. I personally believe that patriarchial ideologies - and they still dominate vastly our cultures - are causing much of that harm, but then again I am a feminist, so that is my opinion.

MTF always since childhood. So many therapist & delays I could write a book, etc.........

Yes, sadly. If one gets to the right people who are educated and know their stuff, it is usually going quite well, but to find them is a heck of a search. I guess even if I told my childhood shrink what I was feeling directly, she would not have understood. Instead I was treated for being isolationist and non-social. Gnaa - lost chance, whatever. Now is now...

In a comparison of 34 postmortem human brains, scientists found that the part of the brain comprising a small group of nerve cells thought to pertain to gender and sexuality were similar in trans women and non-trans women. Although the study only had one trans man's brain, it found that group of nerve cells to be similar to that of a non-trans man.

perhaps a medical diagnosis is not as far off as we might have thought....

Yes, that may be. It could prove harsh for some though if the diagnosis says "no, you are not TS in the bilogical way" but they still feel as they do. Double edged sword. I read that study yesterday BTW, browsing the science journals for new stuff on TS. Lots of things have been found out it seems since I transitioned. Like that difference in that small region of the brain. OTOH they also found that heterosexual transwomens brains are in some of the gender-specific regions close to that of genetic females, while homosexual transwomens brains do not differ significantly from biological males. This would sort of support the old theory of the two TS types - the one that transitions early, has severe GID problems since childhood and prefers heterosexual realtionships post-transition. And the other type that transitions later, is homosexual after transition and was able to hide the gender issues until later in life. Of course much can go wrong in such studies, like maybe age is a factor in the development of these brain regions and that is why they did found these differences within the TS test group - who knows. I just hope they do not develop a test that is then used to tell people that they are not trans and cannot get HRT or SRS... but I think it will always remain an issue of counselling and going to therapists as such a brain difference does not 100% determine gender identity and in the end it is the patient who has that feeling and if that feeling is there, even a physiological test would not change that, right?

[TaoRaven]

Well, I would hope that any physiological test would only be used to support one's case, and not used to refute it. Perhaps a hetero trans woman with physiological evidence of her gender might have an easier time getting corrective surgery, and/or insurance coverage for the procedure.