"You're not just going to wake up one day as a girl"

[Kristal]

LOL

I knew my post would cause all sorts of confusion!

Phlegmatic, sanguine, choleric, and melancholic are the ancient "Four Temperaments."

They were meant to correspond to the "Four Elements."

Well, obviously. That knowledge is as essential as leeching. Seriously though, I know way too many random factoids like this...

[Jean24]

I'd be lying if I said that I don't feel jealous of pretty girls. I'm a bit vain, but not much more nor any different than other transsexuals. If I think about it too much it makes me sick so I just try to focus on the progress that I have made on that front.

[Mariax]

I have been reading this thread since it started. I can't contribute much, but I did want to say, LTL, that you are my hero right now. You are facing things that would cripple most people, but you're still there, pressing on.

This whole thread has been a great inspiration to me, and I am sure to many others right now.

I've been noticing a few trans women in town as of late. One of them just started presenting one day, seemingly out of the blue. No apparent HRT, hair was still a male 70/30 part, but in a dress and pearls. A few weeks later, she had more female hair. Don't know who she is, or anything about her, but it looks like she just reached critical mass one day, and that was that. It certainly seems like everyone has their own path. I guess the important thing is to walk it!

[Ltl89]

So, my meeting with my therapist yesterday went fairly well.  As of now, we are targeting for January to be the start of my part time while I continue to make meaningful changes during the waiting period.  In her eyes, my confidence has taken a bruising over my unemployment issues and there is some repair that is needed to be done.  Still, she does want me to start occasionally making small public showings as female.  She kept emphasizing that I'm building myself for defeat because I have unrealistic expectations.  On the one hand, I expect everything to go terrible and nothing to go well.  With that thinking, it will probably go just as bad as I feel.  On the other hand, she thinks I need to let go of my idealized self and embrace my transgender nature.  I guess I have developed an image of how I'd like to look and what my life would be and I keep hoping for a day where I will no longer look or be trans.  According to her, I may very well pass, but I will always be trans and have to realize this.  No matter how hard I try and even if I do pass without any detection, I will never be a genetic girl.  While that is quite obvious, the more I focus on this, the more I get crushed.  Maybe, I will get used to it with time, but it hurts.  I just want to be a normal girl.  I'm really not in terrible shape because I have seen many worse before pictures and I'm early into my transition, but it saddens me that I can't change things like my height or my bone structure.  Actually, it kills me.  I still struggle with the imperfections I have and mainly strive for a day where I will be perfect and complete.  My therapist, rightly so, let me know that no one can ever be perfect and we have to accept that we are trans and cannot change everything.  Therefore, I not only have to learn to embrace my femininity, but I have to learn to embrace the fact that I will always be trans.  Even though that sounds easy, it's still quite difficult for me.   I not only want to look like one of the girls, I want to be one of the girls.  I know I can be that way and trans, but there are internal conflictions I need to work through.  Before I can learn to pass, I need to learn to  fully embrace myself and feel pride in being trans.  I'm sorry to say, but I still am not there.   Here's to more work.

P.S.  Sorry if any of this is offensive.  I have a difficult time being trans even though I know there is nothing wrong with it.   Obviously, I strongly support our community and accept my identity, but I have a hard time accepting some of the challenges we face and limitations that our situations are presented with.  In any event, please forgive anything I said if it was offensive, I just wanted to give an honest update.

I have been reading this thread since it started. I can't contribute much, but I did want to say, LTL, that you are my hero right now. You are facing things that would cripple most people, but you're still there, pressing on.

This whole thread has been a great inspiration to me, and I am sure to many others right now.

I've been noticing a few trans women in town as of late. One of them just started presenting one day, seemingly out of the blue. No apparent HRT, hair was still a male 70/30 part, but in a dress and pearls. A few weeks later, she had more female hair. Don't know who she is, or anything about her, but it looks like she just reached critical mass one day, and that was that. It certainly seems like everyone has their own path. I guess the important thing is to walk it!

I appreciate the positive feedback and am glad that this has been a helpful thread for you and many others; however, I am no hero.  I'm far from it.  Though, I do appreciate the compliment.

[KabitTarah]

P.S.  Sorry if any of this is offensive.  I have a difficult time being trans even though I know there is nothing wrong with it.   Obviously, I strongly support our community and accept my identity, but I have a hard time accepting some of the challenges we face and limitations that our situations are presented with.  In any event, please forgive anything I said if it was offensive, I just wanted to give an honest update.

I appreciate the positive feedback and am glad that this has been a helpful thread for you and many others; however, I am no hero.  I'm far from it.  Though, I do appreciate the compliment.

Congrats at firming up your timeline... your progress is inspiring to me! You may not be a hero, but you are still a role model.

I don't take offense. I know I'll always be trans* -- and that I always was. It's not that I don't like being transgender... I can't like or dislike it... it just is. What I dislike is society's view of us and the misunderstandings, derision, bigotry, & hatred that come of it. It is unfair and unjust considering there's nothing we can do to change who we are. IMO, the best we can do is to be advocates for tolerance and understanding... while remaining welcoming and understanding in our own part.

Good luck!

[CalmRage]

I have been reading this thread since it started. I can't contribute much, but I did want to say, LTL, that you are my hero right now. You are facing things that would cripple most people, but you're still there, pressing on.

This whole thread has been a great inspiration to me, and I am sure to many others right now.

I've been noticing a few trans women in town as of late. One of them just started presenting one day, seemingly out of the blue. No apparent HRT, hair was still a male 70/30 part, but in a dress and pearls. A few weeks later, she had more female hair. Don't know who she is, or anything about her, but it looks like she just reached critical mass one day, and that was that. It certainly seems like everyone has their own path. I guess the important thing is to walk it!

I think there was one on my bus ride home:

1.rather masculine voice
2.on close-up, not really feminine face
3.not properly shaved face
4.body shape didn't exactly read female
of course she may very well be cis and if so sorry for saying this, besides what are the odds in this small town in Germany, about 2 hours away from Düsseldorf

She wasn't really bad looking, if she wouldn't have talked, i wouldn't have taken a closer, subtle look.

[BunnyBee]

Well, obviously. That knowledge is as essential as leeching. Seriously though, I know way too many random factoids like this...

At least I didn't bring up black and yellow bile or whatever they were LOL.

LTL, I think your therapist is prob right that everything you have gone through is probably hurting your confidence and taking it slower may be best right now.   I don't really know why she feels you need to focus on not being cis though, other than maybe that if you lose the fear that the world may see you as trans, going out publicly will be much easier.   However, I find that when I focus on an idea that I will never be this or that it really just makes me feel terrible and seems to serve no other purpose than that.

[Ltl89]

At least I didn't bring up black and yellow bile or whatever they were LOL.

LTL, I think your therapist is prob right that everything you have gone through is probably hurting your confidence and taking it slower may be best right now.   I don't really know why she feels you need to focus on not being cis though, other than maybe that if you lose the fear that the world may see you as trans, going out publicly will be much easier.   However, I find that when I focus on an idea that I will never be this or that it really just makes me feel terrible and seems to serve no other purpose than that.

It's not that she doesn't want me to focus on not being cis, but rather that she wants me to come to terms with being trans and finding a sense of pride in it.  In some ways, I do.  But I also get sad over the fact that my hands will never be slender or my feet will always be larger.  Those things make me feel different from the other girls and even if I one day pass, that won't change.  My therapist wants me to work hard in coming as close to my idealized self as possible, but also realize that there are some things we as trans women can't change.  This does bother me, however, because I wonder if I can ever fit in with other girls and there are certainly things experiences were I have been left out.  For example, my sister got a pair of cute shoes on her birthday and she asked my other sister to try them on. That kind of female bonding is impossible due to my bone structure.  Little things like that are annoying and make me feel different.  So, even if I do pass, there are certain things I have to come to terms with.   Also, my therapist realizes that I fear people will see me as a trans woman.  I told her that I would even refuse to be seen as even a beautiful trans women.  I simply want to be seen as a normal girl and pass 100 percent at all times.  To her, this indicates that I have some internal problems with my transgender nature.  Her suggestion is that instead of being upset about our limitations or fearing that we will be detected, we should embrace our differences and learn to feel trans pride.  She wasn't implying that it's wrong to want to pass or making a comment on my potential, but she does fear my mindset is setting me up for negative experiences.  The lesson I'm supposed to learn is love being trans (including the stupid things you can't change like bone structure) and don't care what other's think.  I think it's good advice to take in, but I don't know if I will ever see things that way.  Passing is very important to me, and I also care about how much I pass to myself, not just others.  Even if I turn out perfect in other people's eyes, physical things like my hands and feet, and the emotional things like feelings that I'm always going to be different and excluded from other girls, prevent me from feeling that way.  That's why she feels the mentality is important to get over and that I must come to embrace my trans self.  I don't know.

[sam79]

This whole trans vs cis thing is just silly IMO.

LTL, You are just a young twenty-something girl. Trans or not, it's largely unimportant isn't it?

Having said that, I don't know how well you're going to pass or blend in... Perhaps your therapist is trying to ready you for difficulties in that area? From what you write though, I don't think you have "internal problems with your transgender nature".

Passing is also extremely important to me... I've said numerous times to my therapist, under no circumstances do I ever want to be seen as a ->-bleeped-<-. I've also mentioned that if I didn't think it was possible to pass 100% at the end of this, I'd have potentially have left this world already. And there's allowances for surgery etc. But that's how important passing is to me. But, like so many others, I can achieve that passing goal too...

I might just mention for anyone interested, I do see numerous transwomen about on occasion. Yesterday I ran into 3.

The first lives close to me and I see her regularly on trains. She passes very very well, and is the ideal size and shape. Her voice is fantastic, and were I not aware of what to look for, I'd never have identified her. She'd pass 100% easily. Sadly, she usually makes a B-line for anywhere else if she sees me... Perhaps worried that I'll out her or something? As if I would.

The second was at the other end of the train journey... I'd not seen her before, but she stood out from the crowd. She was maybe 6'4, and then had heels on too. Overdressed, and really pushing the female image, perhaps too strongly. She didn't pass 100%. I was watching reactions from people near her... They were polite and all, but were uncomfortable near her. And she seemed uncomfortable around people... I felt a little sorry for her...

The third was later in the day. She too was tall, and I'd seen her around before. Perhaps she was a late transitioner or didn't have a great starting point... She was built like a labourer... She knew she didn't pass, but that didn't seem to bother her in the least. She walked proudly, and while people noticed her, they seemed to just notice and then pay little attention. I think that comes from that strong and confident deportment... Much respect to her.

In terms of trans girls, there are many baskets, but I think the three girls above account for a large portion of us. There are those who can, or try to be stealth or blend in... Those who needlessly draw attention to themselves... And those who are comfortable and proud despite any physical disadvantages.

[Ltl89]

This whole trans vs cis thing is just silly IMO.

LTL, You are just a young twenty-something girl. Trans or not, it's largely unimportant isn't it?

Having said that, I don't know how well you're going to pass or blend in... Perhaps your therapist is trying to ready you for difficulties in that area? From what you write though, I don't think you have "internal problems with your transgender nature".

Passing is also extremely important to me... I've said numerous times to my therapist, under no circumstances do I ever want to be seen as a ->-bleeped-<-. I've also mentioned that if I didn't think it was possible to pass 100% at the end of this, I'd have potentially have left this world already. And there's allowances for surgery etc. But that's how important passing is to me. But, like so many others, I can achieve that passing goal too...

I might just mention for anyone interested, I do see numerous transwomen about on occasion. Yesterday I ran into 3.

The first lives close to me and I see her regularly on trains. She passes very very well, and is the ideal size and shape. Her voice is fantastic, and were I not aware of what to look for, I'd never have identified her. She'd pass 100% easily. Sadly, she usually makes a B-line for anywhere else if she sees me... Perhaps worried that I'll out her or something? As if I would.

The second was at the other end of the train journey... I'd not seen her before, but she stood out from the crowd. She was maybe 6'4, and then had heels on too. Overdressed, and really pushing the female image, perhaps too strongly. She didn't pass 100%. I was watching reactions from people near her... They were polite and all, but were uncomfortable near her. And she seemed uncomfortable around people... I felt a little sorry for her...

The third was later in the day. She too was tall, and I'd seen her around before. Perhaps she was a late transitioner or didn't have a great starting point... She was built like a labourer... She knew she didn't pass, but that didn't seem to bother her in the least. She walked proudly, and while people noticed her, they seemed to just notice and then pay little attention. I think that comes from that strong and confident deportment... Much respect to her.

In terms of trans girls, there are many baskets, but I think the three girls above account for a large portion of us. There are those who can, or try to be stealth or blend in... Those who needlessly draw attention to themselves... And those who are comfortable and proud despite any physical disadvantages.

I don't know.  My therapist just wants me to see my potential and realize that despite the fact that I can't change some things (like annoying parts of my bone structure), I can blend and have a successful transition.  She isn't saying I'm against being trans, but that I should learn to embrace it more.  Without trying to sound offensive to anyone, I don't see being trans a gift in anyway.  I'm happy to be a girl, but not so much that I was born a transgirl.  I think we should all be proud and we are normal people, but it isn't something that I want to shout out to the world.  I want to be stealth and have no one know about it.  My therapist isn't saying I have a problem with being trans, but she wants me to find a sense of pride and confidence in myself despite my anxiety about not potentially passing.  She has said that she believes that I have the potential to pass, but my mentality about it may make me build an idealistic image that I can never meet because I can't change certain things (my hands, my feet or the fact that I'm 5"11).  I know that it's possible to pass with these things, but it makes things harder and makes me feel different than other girls. Passing is 100 percent necessary to me and need to be able to look like all the other girls.  I can't be happy without that.  It needs to happen.  I'm not saying I can't or won't, I probably will pass with more time, laser and hair growth, but I just hate that I have been given social and physical barriers to get where I wish I could be.  In any event, she has suggested that I do things to make myself feel better about my appearance and continue working on the things that I can change to make myself feel better and get more comfortable about going out. Obviously, I can't do much about my horrific hands and feet.  Sorry, but this has been bothering in a major way the past few days. 

[Aina]

Kind of how I am LtL, I wish I had the confidence and pride in myself to come out and tell my family so I can move on..

I don't think it is an easy thing to come to grips with and I have always been jealous of people who take things as they are - as if no matter how hard things get or how bad a day they have they just take it and seem to be ok.

So much so that is how I am online, I am just happy being crazy me - though of course people think I am female....

But we gotta love ourselves LtL, we are all different no one person is the same. If you think about it cis-girls worry about there appearance all the time hehe ok ok its not just girls but guys also, but still.

You told me once not to be to hard on myself for not coming out.

So I say to you, don't be to hard on "yourself". You will pass and you will grow to love yourself!

[Tessa James]

Passing is 100 percent necessary to me and need to be able to look like all the other girls.  I can't be happy without that.  It needs to happen. 

And when that very special moment comes true, as i believe it will for you LtL, I hope you are wearing a pretty blue dress and someone is there to throw pink confetti in the air in celebration.

[sam79]

I don't know.  My therapist just wants me to see my potential and realize that despite the fact that I can't change some things (like annoying parts of my bone structure), I can blend and have a successful transition.  She isn't saying I'm against being trans, but that I should learn to embrace it more.  Without trying to sound offensive to anyone, I don't see being trans a gift in anyway.  I'm happy to be a girl, but not so much that I was born a transgirl.  I think we should all be proud and we are normal people, but it isn't something that I want to shout out to the world.  I want to be stealth and have no one know about it.  My therapist isn't saying I have a problem with being trans, but she wants me to find a sense of pride and confidence in myself despite my anxiety about not potentially passing.  She has said that she believes that I have the potential to pass, but my mentality about it may make me build an idealistic image that I can never meet because I can't change certain things (my hands, my feet or the fact that I'm 5"11).  I know that it's possible to pass with these things, but it makes things harder and makes me feel different than other girls. Passing is 100 percent necessary to me and need to be able to look like all the other girls.  I can't be happy without that.  It needs to happen.  I'm not saying I can't or won't, I probably will pass with more time, laser and hair growth, but I just hate that I have been given social and physical barriers to get where I wish I could be.  In any event, she has suggested that I do things to make myself feel better about my appearance and continue working on the things that I can change to make myself feel better and get more comfortable about going out. Obviously, I can't do much about my horrific hands and feet.  Sorry, but this has been bothering in a major way the past few days.

That's a big one, and similar to what was eating me some time back. At the time, I was a few months into hormones, and very little was happening. At that point it almost looked like I was going to be non-responsive to HRT. To a point, that was also true. It was depressing and left me all kinds of frustrated with no easy road to be seen ahead. Further, every little thing about myself disgusted me, and I even had to cover mirrors at times... There were/are also other complications with hair removal which wasn't helping either. So I contemplated what I was going to do and talked at length with my therapist... I decided to give it some more time with HRT and see what happened. I did have rather ambitious goals for going full-time, but it was clear that it wasn't happening on my terms exactly.

All I can say is, I'm so thankful that I have regular sessions with my therapist. Or perhaps I may not be here to type this now...

So that was a big realisation and wake up call... None of this was happening quicker than it could, nor was it happening on my schedule. While I really really want to go full time ASAP ( and this hasn't changed ), it all depends on passing for me. Accepting this has been difficult but rewarding.

Now I just take it month by month, waiting for that elusive time where I can reasonably pass, all the while HRT works its magic while I constantly work on all aspects of myself. And now that elusive point is getting close due to physical changes from hormones hitting overdrive... .

All in all, be kind to yourself, and be patient. You will get there when you can... I really do understand the frustration... Also LTL, you're ~ 4 months behind me on HRT. Let me assure you that aside from the last month, the previous 5 months of HRT were rocky as all heck. But that has passed and now I couldn't be happier .

EDIT: Not to mention, you're also 10 years younger than I am... If I'm going to be fine, then so will you

[FrancisAnn]

Darn, woke up again as a "male". So frustrating. I just hate my facial hair & it seems so out of place & wrong.
I know there is no other choice that to re start electroysis however I just hate the expense & pain of the visits however I really just have no choice. HRT has done very little to change or reduce these hairs.
 

[anjaq]

Well - bone structure and such - yes that sucks. I wish I had a more slender built as well. But of course yes that cannot be changed and all we can do is to see other women who have these issues and have to buy their shoes in the oversize store etc. I saw a woman this week who had massive "male pattern" hairline loss. And another with huge brow bossing. So some things can be off and still it is ok, one may not be pretty in that aspect but still can be female.

[Ltl89]

That's a big one, and similar to what was eating me some time back. At the time, I was a few months into hormones, and very little was happening. At that point it almost looked like I was going to be non-responsive to HRT. To a point, that was also true. It was depressing and left me all kinds of frustrated with no easy road to be seen ahead. Further, every little thing about myself disgusted me, and I even had to cover mirrors at times... There were/are also other complications with hair removal which wasn't helping either. So I contemplated what I was going to do and talked at length with my therapist... I decided to give it some more time with HRT and see what happened. I did have rather ambitious goals for going full-time, but it was clear that it wasn't happening on my terms exactly.

All I can say is, I'm so thankful that I have regular sessions with my therapist. Or perhaps I may not be here to type this now...

So that was a big realisation and wake up call... None of this was happening quicker than it could, nor was it happening on my schedule. While I really really want to go full time ASAP ( and this hasn't changed ), it all depends on passing for me. Accepting this has been difficult but rewarding.

Now I just take it month by month, waiting for that elusive time where I can reasonably pass, all the while HRT works its magic while I constantly work on all aspects of myself. And now that elusive point is getting close due to physical changes from hormones hitting overdrive... .

All in all, be kind to yourself, and be patient. You will get there when you can... I really do understand the frustration... Also LTL, you're ~ 4 months behind me on HRT. Let me assure you that aside from the last month, the previous 5 months of HRT were rocky as all heck. But that has passed and now I couldn't be happier .

EDIT: Not to mention, you're also 10 years younger than I am... If I'm going to be fine, then so will you

Well - bone structure and such - yes that sucks. I wish I had a more slender built as well. But of course yes that cannot be changed and all we can do is to see other women who have these issues and have to buy their shoes in the oversize store etc. I saw a woman this week who had massive "male pattern" hairline loss. And another with huge brow bossing. So some things can be off and still it is ok, one may not be pretty in that aspect but still can be female.

You're both right.  In many ways, I should count my blessings.  My starting point really isn't so bad (age wise and looks wise) and I don't believe I will have a major problem blending in the future compared to others, even if I am too afraid to try at the moment.  With a little tweaking and time, I probably won't have a huge problem passing to others, even if it is challenging at first and I'm still uncertain how I'll fully turn out.  I guess I just can't help but fret about the things that can't be changed.  There is nothing we can do about certain things and it makes me feel really paranoid.  While passing and society is a major concern of mine, I"m really concerned about if I will ever pass to "myself".  Yes, I see myself as female and identify as such, but I know I can't ever match the natural feminine traits of genetic girls.  To me, it's horrible to know that I will always be more masculine than they are in some respects.  Even if I do one day pass and everyone sees me as gorgeous (perhaps not realistic but what I hope for, lol), I don't know how well I will ever pass in my own eyes.  I've always had an intense jealousy of other girls for many reasons.  Sometimes I wonder if that will ever go away or if I will ever feel adequate compared to them.  A lot of my depression is due to that and it doesn't go away.  Even though I am currently feminizing more and now starting to see a girl in the mirror, my jealousy of other girls is through the roof and has increased in a big way.  The things is, I know for a fact certain things won't change.  I don't just want to pass to others, I want to pass to myself.  Believe me, I realize I'm being stubborn and annoying, but I don't want to deal with having masculine traits or not looking feminine in any form.  So it's a whole multitude of things (passing, my appearance, how pretty I will be, societal acceptance, how guys will view me and whether they will want a serious relationship with me, how other women percieve me, etc) but my self perception is a huge part of it as well.  At the end of the day, it's unavoidable; however, I wish I didn't have to deal with the pressures and limitations of being trans.  This is why my therapist feels I need to get over my idealized self and develop a sense of internal trans pride to overcome these pestering concerns which plague and paralyse me.

In any event, I don't mean to offend anyone as there is nothing wrong with us and who we are.  As someone who has done their best to be positive about our struggle and helpful to others in the same boat, I hope my other posts and my general attitude illuminates that, but I also want to be honest and not sugercoat my feelings and concerns.  I feel honesty is helpful and important to us all, so I'd rather not hide some of the issues I have with being trans in the interest of rallying the troops.  While some may believe it's counter productive to focus on some of this stuff, this is what's important to me and I have to find a way to overcome all these issues.  Being honest and exposing my issues is the only way for me to get better and overcome my unhealthy fears.  And yes, I realize I'm a total huge mess, lol.

[BunnyBee]

Expectation - reality = happiness.

You do probably need to rein your expectations about how your transition will turn out because if you let them be too high it will be harder for you to find happiness.  Most women, regardless of birth circumstances, do not get to be beautiful.  Most/no women don't get to be flawlessly female without any idiosyncrasies or quirks.  You don't want your happiness tied to something that is rarely had.

I think trans pride is a different issue.  I think being proudly trans does almost by default manage your expectations in a way, but it isn't the only way to get there and is not exactly necessary.  It's A way, not THE way, if that makes sense.

[KabitTarah]

Expectation - reality = happiness.

I don't find that reality meets my expectations often. I'm an optimist... a pragmatic, sometimes cynical one, but an optimist.

I'm usually happy... even when I'm sad, moreso now than pre-coming-out. Perhaps there's a 2nd or 3rd order equation (it must be a differential relationship).

[BunnyBee]

Lol.  Idk, it wasn't meant to be an actual math equation.  I guess it is in a way?

[Marina mtf]

Expectation - reality = happiness.

isn'it the other way?

reality - expectation = (Net) happiness

As in the normal equation of economics

Assets - Liabilities = Net value

Assets is what you have (your genetics, your history, your Disphoria)

Liabilities is howyou judge those things.

If you judge them too badly the liability is big and your net value is negative.

Marina