At what point did you REALLY start to notice hrts effects?

[Ltl89]

Hey everyone,

I was just curious about when people started to REALLY notice the changes that hrt gave them?  I'm talking about the more radical differences where you come close to male fail mode and feel like you are finally there.  I'm probably explaining this terribly, but I hope you get what I mean. 

I just need a little encouragement because I'm feeling a bit deflated by the slow progress I've been making.  It's there, but it's slow.  I've been on hrt (spiro and estradiol) for a little over 2 months with a really low dose of estradiol for a month or so before that (so it's sort of 3 months give or take).  Also, I'm 24 years old, so I was hoping my age would play as a positive factor with hrt.  Is it still too early to expect any big changes?  I certainly see some changes, but it's very very gradual.  I'm seeing my endo next week to see if we can alter my dosage, but I'm worried that she won't do it.  She almost wouldn't let me on Spiro because my T range was naturally really low without hormones, so I fear that she won't raise my estradiol any further than she has.  Maybe I need to stay on the lower side of things, but it's just frustrating.

In any event, is this normal?  Should I just suck it up and keep waiting?  Or does it sound like there is something wrong here?  Thanks I really do appreciate honest answers.

P.S.  I realize there is much more to this than hormones, but clearly they are an important part as well. 

[Heather]

The truth is no one can tell you when you will see changes they just happen. And as far as male fail you normally don't get that just by continuing to present as a male completely. For me it's been light makeup,tight clothes,earrings,longhair,breasts,voice and I totally don't carry myself like a male anymore. But if I really want to I can present as a male I just choose not too anymore.

[Ltl89]

The truth is no one can tell you when you will see changes they just happen. And as far as male fail you normally don't get that just by continuing to present as a male completely. For me it's been light makeup,tight clothes,earrings,longhair,breasts,voice and I totally don't carry myself like a male anymore. But if I really want to I can present as a male I just choose not too anymore.

I'm sure that's true to a degree, but I'm sure many women can pass looks alone without makeup or anything else.  After all, I'm sure make up doesn't magically transform ones gender, even if it is quite helpful.  I guess my question isn't so much about passing in public or presenting a certain way, but more about when you yourself started to really notice the effects of hrt.  I'm just trying to gauge the general view on this. 

[Heather]

  I guess my question isn't so much about passing in public or presenting a certain way, but more about when you yourself started to really notice the effects of hrt.  I'm just trying to gauge the general view on this.

That is a difficult question for me to answer I would say about 8 months I started not getting gendered at all and I'm still in that phase. But as far as me seeing the effects myself I don't really see it personally I still think I look like a man. I don't know if I'll ever see the changes for myself I have to rely on other people for that because I don't see them.

[Jenna Marie]

It was around six months that I could no longer pass as male no matter how hard I tried. Three months before I hit that fun time where my gender was a coin toss to random observers (and I was a C cup at that point, so I *could* tip the scales by accentuating/hiding that). Also, I have had waist-length hair since high school, and was occasionally mistaken for a woman all along based on hair alone. So I may not be a good example.

However, practically everyone I talked to back then said that was not typical, so I got the definite impression that more of my trans women friends were like you than not.

[Ltl89]

That is a difficult question for me to answer I would say about 8 months I started not getting gendered at all and I'm still in that phase. But as far as me seeing the effects myself I don't really see it personally I still think I look like a man. I don't know if I'll ever see the changes for myself I have to rely on other people for that because I don't see them.

I'm sorry about that Heather.  For what it's worth, I do see the changes.  This is sort of what I fear.  Hormones will only be superficial at best and I won't really look the way I hope.  I'm not expecting perfection, but I want to improve and hate waiting to get there.  I'm seriously losing it.  It eats up my sanity and it's all I can focus on to the point of sheer misery. Good thing I was prescribed xanax to deal with my insane anxiety, lol. 

It was around six months that I could no longer pass as male no matter how hard I tried. Three months before I hit that fun time where my gender was a coin toss to random observers (and I was a C cup at that point, so I *could* tip the scales by accentuating/hiding that). Also, I have had waist-length hair since high school, and was occasionally mistaken for a woman all along based on hair alone. So I may not be a good example.

However, practically everyone I talked to back then said that was not typical, so I got the definite impression that more of my trans women friends were like you than not.

Thanks for sharing.  I'm probably nowhere near as bad as I paint myself out to be.  A lot of it is in my head and only a portion of it is reality, but it's frustrating not to be able to see it.   People always just thought I was an intellectual gay guy, so I can't relate to being misgendered.  There were, however, 2 or 3 occasions where people whispered about me being trans way before I started hormones when I was in college. Probably means nothing though. 

C cups at 3 months?!  You have my envy.  I've always had breasts (to a degree) since I was young, but they were small and have only slightly grown with hormones.  They're certainly present, but not a C cup yet!  I don't know.  I think my dosage needs to be readjusted. 

[Jennygirl]

Yeah I feel like most of my changes have been from differences in the presentation of a slightly more feminized overall appearance. As far as bodily changes, I think those I've noticed the most difference. Probably within the 7-10 month period. My whole body just looks feminine now.

In my opinion, facial transition without FFS is mostly what you make of it. I was told early on not to expect miracles from HRT alone, but a little bit of the right presentation goes a long way when you are on the girl juice. Learning how to apply a touch of makeup here and there can go very very far and makes the changes stand out waay more.

Take eyeliner for example. I'm not sure if I would pass facially without it. But I care not, it takes 4 min to apply and stays on for like 3 days Usually when a little bit wears off is when it looks best.

[Jenna Marie]

Oh, I know what you mean. At this point, I rarely wear makeup and even when I was out hiking (sweaty, dirty, in loose shirt and my old men's shorts, hair under a baseball cap), nobody thought twice about gendering me female. But when *I* look in the mirror? Sometimes I still see him staring out at me. It's the curse of always remembering what we used to look like, I guess. That or a lot of women are hyper-critical of their own appearance, and we just have more ammunition than most. If you're not getting misgendered often, it may be that you *have* changed a lot more than you realize - especially because it seems like the changes on estrogen can be very subtle, if eventually profound.

To be fair, I was about a 40A+ before I started HRT and I think my body really tended towards liking estrogen even before. I honestly know SO MANY trans women who take years and years to get the full effects; most cis girls spend 6-10 years in puberty too, after all. You may be right about your dosage, of course. If you're not seeing satisfactory effects, that's a reasonable place to look. (I was/am on very very low dose estrogen-only HRT, but since I was content with the results, I didn't care.) I hope your endo does listen to you, this time.

Short version : it probably is way too early to obsess, but I know that's easier said than done.

[Andaya]

I was started on a low dose of Estradiol and Spiro too, for the first month. My doctor doubled the dosage the next month and is keeping me at my current level for the next 3 months. Honestly I didn't notice nearly as much change on the low dosage as I have on the higher dosage. I know the exact numbers aren't to be talked about here for fear of people self medicating based on the info, but that has been my personal experience. On the low dose I noticed slightly softer skin small changes but breast growth and bigger changes have happened since I switched.

Mileage varies of course. I have a trans friend who goes to the same gender clinic I do and she's on a dose double mine to achieve the same changes I have. Your doctor really should be open to increasing your dosage if it's really necessary. Even a low T level that is still in the male range is still waaaay higher than the optimal female range for T.

[Just Shelly]

To be honest you yourself may never see any changes if you don't allow yourself too! I am over two years fulltime and I still see "him" at times.

In the early stages anyone close to you or that knows you more personally will see nothing different, even if you wore a dress in front of them. People see what they want too!! Its the everyday interaction with people that don't know you or haven't seen you in awhile that will view you differently. The old saying goes....If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck, acts like a duck....must be a duck!!

I was getting misgendered 1 year before I went FT....the biggest thing that did it was my hair...at times I was even unshaven. My voice and my gestures also gendered me female, even though I wasn't trying. The only thing possibly gendering me female were my jeans that were more fitting (but not girly) and smaller t-shirts (young mens) I wore no jewelry, makeup or polish, even my hair looked like crap though in a pony tail. I had many affirmations to push me to go FT but I still did not rush things.

Even people that knew me well did not know who I was...I had been face to face with some thinking they knew who I was....but they didn't! This was still when I thought barely nothing had changed.

Unfortunately I think my body shape was much better and maybe even more feminine back then.....I put on no more then 5 pounds in the last 2 years but not all of it has been in my butt or hips!

[Karla]

Oooh, Jennygirl... which eyeliner do you use?

By far the greatest difference that I ever noticed was emotional: when I picked up by first box of patches from the pharmacist, ran out to the car, ripped open the box, pushed my jeans and panties down and applied a patch.   Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.......

It gave me the strength to move toward full-time, which I have since done, about a month after that first life-giving patch

Pooh on 'going slow' and all that.  Life's too short.  Wear lovely scarves, dine well, be good to yourself and your friends... and be the woman you are.

Take eyeliner for example. I'm not sure if I would pass facially without it. But I care not, it takes 4 min to apply and stays on for like 3 days

[Jennygirl]

Oooh, Jennygirl... which eyeliner do you use?

Urban Decay 24/7 glide on pencil. Stuff lasts forever for me

[Heather]

I'm sorry about that Heather.  For what it's worth, I do see the changes.  This is sort of what I fear.  Hormones will only be superficial at best and I won't really look the way I hope.  I'm not expecting perfection, but I want to improve and hate waiting to get there.  I'm seriously losing it.  It eats up my sanity and it's all I can focus on to the point of sheer misery. Good thing I was prescribed xanax to deal with my insane anxiety, lol. 

I had a thought about perfection after I posted the last post. I've heard you describe how much work you put into being the best at school. That is a form of perfectionism that has probably transferred to other areas of your life including your transition. I know this because I have this problem too, I like to say I'm not looking for perfection either but the truth is deep down every part of me that isn't perfect bothers me immensely. That drive for perfection can help us or hurt us you have to learn to control it before it controls you. Their is a risk of failure that you'll never pass that comes with hrt, and for people not used to failure transitioning can be a very frightening thing. Your going to have to learn how to taper your expectations or your in for a rough road the next few years.

[KayCeeDee]

I didn't see anything until about 7 or 8 months into HRT.  When I hit that 6 month mark I had gotten pretty down because while I was getting breast growth, I couldn't see anything else happening except for an occasional glimpse of femininity.  So the only thing I can say is to be patient.  Everyone seems to come into their own at a different time.

[Ltl89]

From some of the post here, I'm assuming that I'm way too early in the game to tell.  Perhaps I just need to calm down and give it some time.  Still, I think I need to readjust my doses and hope my endo will allow me to raise my estradiol.

It's just weird.  My body is already feminine in some ways (except the hands, feet, and height), so I don't expect too much from hrt there.  I've always had feminine hips and a natural curves .  My breasts always existed to a degree,  even if they are on the smaller side, but hopefully hrt will help in that department a bit.   Don't get me wrong, I desperately welcome further changes to my body and hope the body hair growth diminishes, but my main concern is my face.  I want to see a girl looking back at me.  Right now, I see a fem guy.  I don't think I need FFS because everyone tells me that I won't need it, still I am considering getting my brows and nose done, but I don't know how to see my female self.  While I understand the importance of makeup and everything else, I just want to be able to look at myself and see female at all times.  I'm frustrated.  Maybe I just need to get laser, shape my brows better and find a better hairstyle for my facial features.   That probably can solve my issues to a degree, but I'm affraid of making myself too fem too quickly.  There is a chance that shaping my eyebrows and getting a different hair cut will make me too fem before I'm ready to deal with other people's perception of me.  I'm starting work on Monday and can't help but wonder how they will react to me.  Eh.... I can't stand my anxiety.

Having said all that, there are improvements.  My body is even more fem looking with hrt and my facial features are changing.  I'm just frustrated by the things I can't change like bone structure and the time everything takes.   But there is a positive side to everything and I should be glad to have seen the developments that I have made in such a short period.  MY issue is that I hope to be one year on hrt in one day.  I just have to calm down a bit.  Everyday will bring new developments and with hard work (like losing some weight, getting laser, and finding the right eyebrow shape and allowing myself to wear make up in public) I'll get there in time. Sorry for the rambling.  I'm just going through a really bad dysphoria spell lately. 

[Karla]

Has anybody mentioned pheromones ? 

My skin, after about a month of HRT, is now sooooooo sensitive.   I shudder when touched, even a fleeting touch.  When a flight attendant helped me into my coat, I almost fainted.

I'm looking for subtle things rather than the textbook 'secondary sex characteristics'.  And finding nice surprises.

[KabitTarah]

A lot of it is the mental outlook.  I feel like I've made little progress, although I know I have been changing.  Yesterday was kind of a breakthrough.  It's hard to explain, maybe I just had the right attitude, but I brushed my hair, put on some makeup and girl glasses and I could see my female self.  I had a warm glow from that.  I try to be honest with myself, it doesn't help to lie and convince myself of things that aren't there, but it helps a lot to lean just a bit towards self-deception, it feels so good.

Pre-HRT so far... but I can totally understand this. Every day I look in the mirror and I can see Tarah in there. I have a male mask on, but there are things I can pick out that make me feel like who I really am, Tarah, is in there somewhere. Maybe I'm imagining it. Maybe the longer hair and cleaned-up (not shaped) eyebrows help. Maybe it's the reddish tracks from laser hair removal (they have to be good for something other than looking like an idiot at work). I'm not there yet... psychologically or physiologically, but I'm strong and will find Tarah one day.

Remember that some masculine features are OK. All women have them and they make you more real.

With HRT (not that I know anything)... everything I've read says that estrogen fairies come at night to feminize you... and it all depends on their particular work load and schedule.... or something like that.    (For the guys, I'm pretty sure it's testosterone demons ... but I may be biased).

[ZoeM]

For me it was about three months that I started being gendered female in "guy mode." This was on a minimal dosag, mind. Changes were never obvious (even now) but subtly built on themselves to make Zoe a reality.

As a side note, it's still kinda odd realizing that, despite still feeling essentially the same - "like me" - I look really different than I used to. You can't feel face changes from inside, so the person in the mirror is still a pleasant surprise.

[Lexi Belle]

I'm dumbfounded by all these people with significant breast growth by 3 months, I'm 19 and 3 and a half months in and I'm still at mosquito bite stage. Lol.

Never the less, my endocrinologist gave me a paper telling me exactly what to expect and everything said it wouldn't start out too noticeably until about 3 months as a general rule.  Most changes won't be seen until about 6 months or longer.  So yeah, you're way too early in for HRT, HRT can work wonders and it IS a magical hormones.  It just DOESN'T work very fast.  Give it 3 or 4 more months, then compare yourself now to a picture in 3 or 4 months. I bet you'll see a lot of difference!

[Heather]

I'm dumbfounded by all these people with significant breast growth by 3 months, I'm 19 and 3 and a half months in and I'm still at mosquito bite stage. Lol.

It's all based on genetics and body type if your naturally skinny your probably not going to see that much development. But everybody is different so hang in there.