"when you get ..."

[Taka]

i am an untransitioner. and i'm using a weird word because "pre-whatever" doesn't seem to describe my situation adequately. saying i'm pre, would mean that there's a plan, or at least a fair possibility, of somewhen becoming post. but i, as quite a few others here, am in a situation where transition either isn't possible, isn't desirable, or is so difficult to attain that it doesn't seem likely to happen in the foreseeable future. (i'm aware that some might use it to mean "detransitioner", but i really do believe there is a need for more words to describe different situations here. thus i've made this up to mean what i think it need it to mean. a person who won't or can't transition.)

just now, i suddenly thought it might be an idea to tell people about this feeling i get some times when people tell me "when you get ..." (you may complete the sentence with hrt, any type of surgery, or even other things.)

not sure how to express where i'm trying to get. it hurts to hear this sentence. i believe that most people who say it do it in order to encourage, but it really only works the opposite. it reminds me how horribly depressing my own situation is, when compared to other people's situation. those who can assume that transition will be possible, simply because they live in a country where it generally is possible.

when someone talks about the difficulty of getting anywhere, often because of living in the wrong country, but also if they mention choosing not to do it, would it be so difficult to not use phrases like this?
i'd be fine with it if people told me "if you get ..." because i wish to get it. but hearing "when", only sounds like an invalidation of my seemingly hopeless situation.

i really have no idea whatsoever if it will be possible for me to get it within a foreseeable future. if anyone here remembers natkat telling about his friend who committed suicide, i live in the exact same country as that friend. non-binary people don't have any rights here. people who aren't "trans enough" don't really have any rights either. to many trans people in my country, the deal they get is "lie or die". too many have to lie in order to get to transition.

i know of only two doctors who deal with non-binary people. in the entire country. i've gotten in touch with one, but they might not be able to find time for me before christmas. maybe not after christmas either. it's impossible for me to say something like "when i get on hrt", unless i move to another country, something which i will not do just for my own selfishness.

please validate my worries by at least saying "if" instead of "when".

(not directed at anyone in specific. just to the community in general)

[Nero]

Hi Taka,

I'm sure I've used that phrase myself a time or two. There does seem to be a tendency among those who live in places where transition is relatively easy to just assume the poster is pre-whatever and waiting. There's also a tendency to assume everyone's going the regular HRT, surgery route. I think a lot of people say 'well, when you get on T...' as a reflex to soothe someone's fears or simply because it helped them. And sometimes people just don't know what to say other than to offer their 'it gets better the further into (medical) transition you get' line.

It would do all of us well to remember that not everyone lives in a country with a system making HRT and surgery available if you wait long enough (Britain, Canada, etc) and not everyone lives in a country or place where medical transition is easy if you have the means (metropolitan areas in the US). And further, that even for those where medical help is easily available, many do not have the financial means (many US trans persons).

And even beyond that, that many trans and non-binary persons choose not to medically transition for various reasons.
So it would do us all well to ask before assuming certain treatments are easily accessible or even desired by someone. Otherwise, we just cause more distress to those who can't currently access or don't even desire certain treatments.

[Lo]

Yeah, the over-eager emphasis on transition is bothersome. It assumes that you live in a place where access to proper care is feasible, or it assumes that you have the money to spend on traveling. It assumes that there aren't more pressing financial matters in your life. It assumes certain things about your priorities as a trans* person, it assumes that there is an "ideal" body for X gender to achieve. It assumes that you experience a certain level of dysphoria, and a certain kind. It assumes that the goal is to pass and become "post-transition". It assumes that transition will progress as quickly as your pockets are deep. It assumes that you don't have other mental issues that are just as pressing, or more pressing, than dysphoria.

It makes a lot of assumptions.

I think it would do the trans* community good to be a little more mindful of the diverse array places and backgrounds we all come from.

(As an aside, I realized why it felt so strange for people to jump down my throat in a thread some months ago about age and technology literacy... how could they have NO idea what I was talking about? On what planet were they from where old folks had the means to understand the ins and outs of computers? And then I realized that everyone getting upset at me, everyone who was older than 35 with experience in a technology field... they were all white. I have the assumption that I did because I came from a family of color who didn't have the money to send their kids off to computer engineering programs, let alone bother with computers and silicon valley themselves. Tech, up until recently, was a very white world, and one that excluded people like my great aunts and uncles.)

[Natkat]

I try as much as posible to do that, but I know where it's comming from.
I don't even think it a matter of countrys so much, Being in the same country as certain people who is in another position than me and can't transition I also find it hard to relate or give proper advice . I guess in general it most easy to give advice for someone where you have been in more or less same situation + theres the typical trans image that everyone want the same which sure isn't true. even when many do want homones and surgery and experience dyshoria we still have to remember it's not for everyone.
---
the country thing is also often difficult to explain or understand so people easly make those kind of sentence who ment helpfull but not really helpfull in the situation.
at least people are making an efford.
I had quit a couple of Forums because people seamed too racist about me and my "not good enough english" to even care.
--
I hope most people really want to do the best to be great suporters but simple forget so it good you make people aware.

[Ltl89]

Transitioning will not be the path of every trans person.  Sometimes it can do more harm than good.  That doesn't make anyone less trans than those of us who are, but they have a different life and circumstances that may dictate the proper course for them.  That's fine.  Quite frankly, that's why I encourage people to think deeply about this and not rush into anything.  Because at the end of the day, you will face hardships and make sacrifices you don't want to make.  Yeah, you may gain a lot and your losses may be less than others, but it really differs for every individual.  I believe severing certain connections and putting my family through everything was a difficult but necessary event.  I don't think I could go on if I was forced to live as a "male".  Other's may not feel the same.  We are truly a diverse group; as a result, our paths will differ.  What's important is that we do whatever we can to make ourselves happy.  Weigh the pros and cons, find what works for you.  There is no right or wrong way.

On the when vs if debate, I agree with you on principal.  However, it depends on the context.  If someone get their hrt letter, it's not a big leap to say "when you reach 3 months" or something along those lines.  Sure, it's an assumption, but one that makes sense.  So, I think it all depends.  Though, I do agree that assumptions are to be avoided as best as possible.  I'm sure I've failed in this regard before.  Thank you for pointing this out and allowing us all to be on the look out. 

[Lesley_Roberta]

It's just a sex organ.

I think of the things I might lose that would utterly devastate my life, my eyes and no way to make things, my ears and no way to enjoy the beauty of music.

It makes it very easy to deal with 'not getting a vagina', in that it puts it into a new perspective.

The thing vexes me and it annoys me, but, it doesn't prevent me from enjoying life.

But I live in Canada and apparently that means I can dream of the operation.

It doesn't mean the operation is going to be easy or simple or without trials.

But I sympathize for people like Taka, because clearly, just living where you live seems to put you at risk all because you don't match society's demands there.

I mean, yah I can forgo the operation, and just deal with it, but yet still enjoy being female all the same. There is no 'danger' in my openly expressing my not being male to the world based on the specifics of my place of residence.

If only there was something I could do that would make it possible for people like Taka to not need to live in hiding.

[JLT1]

 Taka,

I am so sorry if I have done this to you.  There are many reasons why someone may be transgender and yet not transition in the way many understand it.  You are one of the very few people posting regularly that I read and reread.  You are smart and see the world though eyes that are very different from my own.  If I have, do not take offence and I ask for forgiveness of my ignorance.  I do not understand the world that you live in.  I only know you that are magnificent.

I would say that you have been and still are on a journey of change though.  You have grown during the time I have been posting; you have an increasing awareness of yourself and others around you.  This type of change is one we all should be striving for as it is a big part of what makes life worth living.
Hugs,
Jen

[YBtheOutlaw]

i can relate to this situation as i live in a country where being non-binary in gender or sexual orientation is illegal by law! so in reality transition is impossible here unless i earn enough to move to some other country and settle there, and then start transition.
but, i don't really like worrying over all these throughout the day. i want to be happy for the time being, so i give myself hopes. i believe i'd be able to come out and start binding once i'm out of school, and go ahead in hrt sometime later. even if that doesn't happen, keeping up hopes is good for my mentality, even if they are false hopes.
so in my case, its the 'if you get' phrases that upset me, because they make me doubt my hopes. 'when you get' phrases encourage me and stabilize my dreams.
here's one of my favourite quotes: 'if a problem can be solved, you don't have to worry about it. if a problem cannot be solved, there's no use of worrying.'

[Taka]

@ yb: i see, so both phrases can be bad depending on who you're talking to. i agree with your quote though. it's not like i constantly worry about this, but it's a little more difficult to just put it on hold when there is a (very slight) possibility of getting somewhere.

@ ltl: it is a very different situation when someone's already on the road. what i'm thinking about is when someone tries to say that there is no road to walk (yet), and there is more uncertainty than certainty that they will find a way. and then when talking about different kinds of problems, what one hears is that "everything will be so much better when you get..."

@ lesley: i'm not that bad off. at least i don't live in a country where non-conforming is a crime. actually, i think my society would be able to accept quite readily. norwegians are great at not bothering with other people's choices. but the government is a different case, and i can only hope that the new government will make it easier for private practitioners to give treatment to less than 120% transsexual people. the old government(s) have been pretty close to forbidding it on several occasions. still sucks though.

@ jen: i can't remember you writing anything wrong to me. i see you as one of the more level headed and considerate persons here. the reason i wrote this post was that i noticed how much a well meant phrase can hurt. and whatever i write here, i'm looking more for other people's thoughts and reflections, than to point at anyone or getting an apology.