An inquiry for all the MTFs out there.

[of a sort]

To be honest, I've not really noticed an appreciable loss of strength due to hrt in the almost 10 years I've been on it. I wasn't that strong to begin with, I suppose. I can still hoist a 28 foot extension ladder over my head and tote it if needed though. Figured that out a few weeks ago when I was doing some stuff around the house.

[Beth Andrea]

Yeah, I'm very much aware of this. But as of right now, I feel like I absolutely cannot turn down any sort of presented challenge because I feel as though it may reinforce any perceived weakness they already have of me due to my gender.
I know it's stupid and, logically, I know that I'm doing it to assuage my own ill perceptions of myself.

I could be way off base, but I think that once I outwardly feel like I'm supposed to, I won't really care less about such displays.

Totally understandable. That's why it's usually teens and twenty-somethings who engage in dares and double-dares...they're still growing up, doing the puberty thing..."I have to prove I'm a man, not a kid!"

*hugs* and have a good journey, you'll do alright!

[Shantel]

Shantel: that sounds a lot like my first go around with puberty. I had severe bouts of blind rage--sometimes I'd almost 'black out' and get physically aggressive--to the point where I broke a guy's nose once.
... Yeah. Never been much of a delicate flower, I suppose.
I often wonder how different this next go around will be. I'm ready for the changes both good and bad, though I can't say I'm looking forward to acne all over again.

As a female, I have a 14.75 inch bicep (when flexed, of course) and a shoulder width of 18.5 inches (bleh)... so I'm hoping all that gets significantly larger. I don't feel tiny next to dudes by any means (except for the larger 200+ pound guys... thankfully cis dudes do, too) but it would be nice to feel a little bigger for once. I'm absolutely appalled by my height, though, and wish I would've started making the transition in my teens.

My but you were a tough number, we'll have to get a restraining order on you when you start T! 

One thing you might keep in mind as a guy, once you start getting facial hair and have to shave, don't fall for the BS about men's skin bracers unless you want to age your skin really fast and have a red chapped face in the winter. Back in my guy days I figured that out early on and saved myself a lot of grief by pitching out the Old Spice and using moisturizers after shaving and at my advanced age still get incredulous comments about how youthful I look. We all get old soon enough so forget the skin bracers. There are some good moisturizers at the skin care kiosks that can help with oily skin, something to keep in mind because from my observation a lot of FtM's complain about excessively oily skin and acne problems as a side effect from testosterone.

[VeronicaLynn]

Not on HRT, but I went through a bodybuilding phase when I was in denial. Don't get your hopes up too high on gaining muscle mass, not all cis-males can make noticeable gains in mass, even after years in the gym, trying every workout routine possible. I made some gains in strength, and really modest gains in mass, some in areas I wish I hadn't, some I'm delighted in. Decline press works lower pecs, Chest flyes work cleavage. I made a real mistake overworking hip adductors. Gaining muscle mass there, which I really did somehow to the point I was lifting the whole stack easily, means if you later gain fat, your legs rub together in normal walking. Anyone reading this, don't do this. But the area I wanted at the time to get bigger, my shoulders, not even a strength change, after years in the gym, main reason I did decline and flyes, I can't bench press because basically have no shoulder muscles.

[Blinded Wolf]

My but you were a tough number, we'll have to get a restraining order on you when you start T! 

One thing you might keep in mind as a guy, once you start getting facial hair and have to shave, don't fall for the BS about men's skin bracers unless you want to age your skin really fast and have a red chapped face in the winter. Back in my guy days I figured that out early on and saved myself a lot of grief by pitching out the Old Spice and using moisturizers after shaving and at my advanced age still get incredulous comments about how youthful I look. We all get old soon enough so forget the skin bracers. There are some good moisturizers at the skin care kiosks that can help with oily skin, something to keep in mind because from my observation a lot of FtM's complain about excessively oily skin and acne problems as a side effect from testosterone.

I think I love you for this advice. I actually had no idea and probably would've just used the crap to use it. I always thought it looked like it was really irritating to the skin but figured it was just one of those things and never thought beyond it. Maybe I'll start scoping out good moisturizers when I'm wandering about.
Yeah, I really am a little bummed about the acne. It was mild to moderate as a female (but dissipated at 21), so... I can only imagine.

In my defense, the guy really did deserve it. He slapped the back of my head three times (I calmly warned him to stop the first two) and when he didn't, I simply whirled around in the seat, grabbed his collar to pull him closer and slammed my fist into his nose six times.
Blood flew everywhere, he cried and everyone high-fived me because he was a total ... erhm... can't curse, but you get the idea.
I'm hoping the T mellows me out a tad.

[Blinded Wolf]

Not on HRT, but I went through a bodybuilding phase when I was in denial. Don't get your hopes up too high on gaining muscle mass, not all cis-males can make noticeable gains in mass, even after years in the gym, trying every workout routine possible. I made some gains in strength, and really modest gains in mass, some in areas I wish I hadn't, some I'm delighted in. Decline press works lower pecs, Chest flyes work cleavage. I made a real mistake overworking hip adductors. Gaining muscle mass there, which I really did somehow to the point I was lifting the whole stack easily, means if you later gain fat, your legs rub together in normal walking. Anyone reading this, don't do this. But the area I wanted at the time to get bigger, my shoulders, not even a strength change, after years in the gym, main reason I did decline and flyes, I can't bench press because basically have no shoulder muscles.

I used to do a lot of hip abduction exercises. It truly was a poor idea in retrospect.
Even though I'd be 6'4" and 280 if I had a choice in the matter, I'm not looking to get super beefy. I'm already fairly strong and boxy for currently being female, so I'm (perhaps falsely) making the assumption it will carry over into manhood. The guys on both sides of my family are all pretty large, but I know that's not always a strong indication of anything.
Currently, I curl 30lbs per arm (38 is my one-rep max), deadlift 245lbs, bench press 160 and overhead press (worst area, by far) 85lbs. I'm hoping those numbers dramatically increase, to say the least.
Regardless, even if they don't, I'm prepared to accept that at this point.

[Christine Eryn]

Well, I think you are in for a pleasant surprise. Before I started E 6 years ago, I weighed maybe 30-40lbs more and had alot more muscle and mass. One person's poison is another person's antidote for sure. Now I am really bony and thin compared to what I was before. I didn't expect to have no muscle around my shoulders. It may sound odd, but that's exactly what I am after. I still need to lose a little muscle here and there to get rid of that "buff" upper body shape. I've seen the results both ways and if given enough time, hormones will make a huge difference. 

[Just Shelly]

I never considered myself very strong pre-transition but my job required me to do things most men bigger then me couldn't do. I could move around 60# bags of concrete, carry 4x12' sheets of dry wall, and easily dead lift my Weight. I am fairly the same size I was then 5'7" 125....and now 5'6 1/2" 128.

During the first 2 years on hrt I still needed to do manly work, I never really noticed much strength loss, but I was always determined to do what was needed to make money. It was becoming harder to do but figured it was more mental than physical. In the last year and a half I have not done too much physical work, but stay in shape by biking and working out in gym. I think if need be I could still do some things I did in the past. I don't work on upper strength but have done 10 marine type pushups...could probably do 20. Where I work now I do not need to do much physical stuff but have found when I do it has become very difficult. I do have to admit I have lost the little muscle I have had.

I'm not sure what my measurements for muscle were before hrt but currently my biceps flexed are at 9 1/2"-10 1/2" (can't get accurate reading) and 9" un-flexed I think this is fairly small...but to me I still look like muscle woman!! I also tried to bench press once at the gym and was able to do 70# probably could of done 80#...I was a bit shocked at this since I thought I would be able to do 100#...I just don't see myself as tiny!! The last time I attempted to lift any weights was in high school and I could then bench 130-140# and weighed 140#

So even though I think much of the muscle loss can be more mental then actual...I would have to disagree with myself...I have obviously loss much strength. I think you will notice wonders going on T it is a huge difference in hrt....one adds quickly while the other hrt takes away and shifts slightly but on a slower basis.

[Cindy]

I work out three times a week and have done for years, right through transition as well. I can clearly demonstrate my strength changes. Legs are about the same, upper body dropped by at least 1/3. I struggle to load the weight machines and often one of the guys will help me.

The guys in the gym have been so cute!

I have dropped from a size 14 (Europe/Australian) dress size to a size twelve. It seems my shoulders have changed.

I see young guys in the gym rapidly bulk up, so wolf you should have great changes.

Can I second what Shantel said, looking after your skin is important for anyone of any gender who wants to look good. And shaving facial hair is a bad irritant for all men.

Funny story, my accountant who is a big burly rugby playing guy ended up going to my laser people to help get his beard reduced as shaving was such an irritating event to his skin, particularly in the neck area. He told the tech that I had recommended the place, she replied, "Oh are you transgender as well? I hope you have as good as benefit as Cindy did" He was very quick to change her opinion But she did recommend product to help his skin condition.

I like my men to be 'craggy and masculine' but also men who take care of themselves. That means a lot because I feel that if they take care of themselves they will take care of me. Sorry if that sounds sexist but it is just an observation!

[Kiwi4Eva]

I like my men to be 'craggy and masculine' but also men who take care of themselves. That means a lot because I feel that if they take care of themselves they will take care of me. Sorry if that sounds sexist but it is just an observation!

What a nice post Cindy, and can I say I totally agree with you.  Why should anyone, male or female want to spend their time and invest their love in someone who has no desire to look after themselves?  Not just physically, but mentally too.

If you can't love yourself, you can't possibly love another...

It's easy to say of course, and I didn't always love myself.  How could I the way I was born?  And I didn't ask to be, but hey, I am here and while there is breath in me I will have an opinion.

I must be a woman...I can nag to!

But here's the thing, a woman shouldn't HAVE to nag.   

[VeronicaLynn]

Currently, I curl 30lbs per arm (38 is my one-rep max), deadlift 245lbs, bench press 160 and overhead press (worst area, by far) 85lbs. I'm hoping those numbers dramatically increase, to say the least.
Regardless, even if they don't, I'm prepared to accept that at this point.

At my best, I could curl 25lbs per arm, bench 150lbs, and overhead press 75lbs. You already beat what was at the time, a cis-male who spent years in the gym. I didn't try deadlifts because I have really bad knees, part of why I worked hip abductors/adductors so much was to compensate that I couldn't work my quads and hamstrings. I doubt that if I said to hell with my knees, I could deadlift anything close to 245lbs.

[Sammy]

When I was at my peak (into deep denial) I was doing 20-22 pull-ups, I was doing biceps exercises with 18 kg dumbbels (per hand), I also did 10-12  single hand repetitions with lifting 32 kg weightball (I believe that's how You call them). I had no idea about what I was doing back then , so luckily for me I had no specific diet and I did not really bulk that much up (I had L size but I was not burly)- I have before/after pics in my Timeline thread in my blog, if anyone wishes to see. So I just got wiry and well-defined and then plumpy and then lost weight and regained definition and went through that phase severl times . But I was also extremely strong (stronger than I looked like ) - my strongest asset being my back muscles.  But it went down pretty fast with low-protein diet, weight loss, car + HRT. I am much smaller and nicer now

[Shantel]

In my defense, the guy really did deserve it. He slapped the back of my head three times (I calmly warned him to stop the first two) and when he didn't, I simply whirled around in the seat, grabbed his collar to pull him closer and slammed my fist into his nose six times.
Blood flew everywhere, he cried and everyone high-fived me because he was a total ... erhm... can't curse, but you get the idea.
I'm hoping the T mellows me out a tad.

  Holy crap, if I ever get into it with a bully I may need to call you for an assist. 

[pretty pauline]

I must be a woman...I can nag to!

But here's the thing, a woman shouldn't HAVE to nag.   

I smiled when I read that, God dam it, I swore to myself when I married my husband 3years ago I hope I don't turn into a nagging housewife. Now we have a few issues lately with household chores, just don't ask him to cook or clean, resently with a grin he told me to ''stop nagging''.
Your right Kwi4Eve, a woman shouldn't HAVE to nag, but unknown to ourselves, gosh we do, we nag our men because we are women, I nag my husband because I'm a typical woman.

[Blinded Wolf]

At my best, I could curl 25lbs per arm, bench 150lbs, and overhead press 75lbs. You already beat what was at the time, a cis-male who spent years in the gym. I didn't try deadlifts because I have really bad knees, part of why I worked hip abductors/adductors so much was to compensate that I couldn't work my quads and hamstrings. I doubt that if I said to hell with my knees, I could deadlift anything close to 245lbs.

It never occurred to me even in the slightest that I could be on par with a cis-male counterpart. I avoid the gym religiously for that very reason--I do all my workouts in my attic--but hope to start going after the transition.

I had something happen to me a couple months ago that completely screwed with my head. One of my friends is a bigger guy (6'3" 240) and we were play wrestling around one night while drinking. He hoisted me up on his shoulder without much effort and it suddenly drove home to me that if a dude his size wanted to completely trash me, he could. It sort of spooked me a little.

Logically, I don't think with my size that being another guy would've mattered in that circumstance, but it only brought the dysphoria to the forefront. I must say that it actually makes me feel better that you posted those numbers; maybe I'm not too far off from as many cis-males than I think.
I always picture them sitting in the gym and lifting clydesdales or something.

[Blinded Wolf]

What a nice post Cindy, and can I say I totally agree with you.  Why should anyone, male or female want to spend their time and invest their love in someone who has no desire to look after themselves?  Not just physically, but mentally too.

If you can't love yourself, you can't possibly love another...

It's easy to say of course, and I didn't always love myself.  How could I the way I was born?  And I didn't ask to be, but hey, I am here and while there is breath in me I will have an opinion.

I must be a woman...I can nag to!

But here's the thing, a woman shouldn't HAVE to nag.   

I chuckled when I read this. My girlfriend and I love one another very, very much but we run on very different frequencies. She has a full-time weekday job and I have a full-time weekend position so I pick up a ton of the housework throughout the week.
If she happens to come home and I've overlooked something, even something absolutely miniscule, she gets very insistent that I hurry and do it or comments on it repeatedly until I drag my carcass up to get it done.
If I come home and she's not done something, I just smile, shrug and do it myself without commenting.

I wouldn't call her naggy, per se, but her propensity for doing so is much higher than mine.

[Sammy]

I had something happen to me a couple months ago that completely screwed with my head. One of my friends is a bigger guy (6'3" 240) and we were play wrestling around one night while drinking. He hoisted me up on his shoulder without much effort and it suddenly drove home to me that if a dude his size wanted to completely trash me, he could. It sort of spooked me a little.

Well, in fact, doing those kind of things is not that much difficult - when done properly. It is pretty much physics/footing (Your own) first and then Your strength as the second. I was also once playwrestling with a guy - he was about 8 years older than me (I was 26 then) and a former airborne trooper. So, we had to stage a short scene for one event and we decided to incorporate some tossing and hoisting . He said that he will show me something - he grabbed my hand, then reached with his other hand for my inner hip - next thing I see, I am on his shoulder and if he wanted to toss me away - he easily could. True, he was a bit bigger than me, but he explained me the trick and I could repeat it on him - though if I made a slightest mistake with my footing - I was instantly left struggling with all of his mass . Later, I learned a couple of other similar tricks, which proved that someone, knowing the proper points of application could easily down someone twice of his/her size.

And another point - someone who is 6'3" 240 can pretty much trash a lot of people - if those people are playing by the rules and letting him to. Being that big and heavy gives him natural advantage - mental and physical - so the trick is usually not to play by the rules. Of course, that does concern friendly wrestling, but well, someone who is that big should not be showing off on smaller chaps... And if we are talking about "real" situations, then there are a couple of things to remember (it goes down to the attitude) - the bigger they are, the harder they fall - and - being a big oaf is unfair advantage on its own, so it is perfectly fair to use dirty tricks to even Your chances (and learning those tricks is up to You now )

[Shantel]

If I come home and she's not done something, I just smile, shrug and do it myself without commenting.

I wouldn't call her naggy, per se, but her propensity for doing so is much higher than mine.

This sounds so familiar, are you sure you haven't been looking in our windows? 
Btw nice avatar photo, I'm not seeing any acne scars so you're doing good!

[Blinded Wolf]

This sounds so familiar, are you sure you haven't been looking in our windows? 
Btw nice avatar photo, I'm not seeing any acne scars so you're doing good!

... Crap. Well... could you at least rearrange that couch in the living room? It's throwing off the feng shui when I'm trying to get my stalker on. kthx.

Thank you. Yes... it seems, thankfully, the only scars E will leave me with will be the ones on my chest where my sweater calves used to be.

[JLT1]

I've been on HRT for 10 months now.  I've been working out a lot and have been very busy. Up until the past couple of weeks I'd lost some bulk but no real loss in strength.  Then, I had ankle surgery two weeks ago.  In recovery, I've became the incredible shrinking woman.  Everything has been getting smaller.  In this weird way, I love it.

You'll do fine on T.  Work out, get protein.