Quote from: Contravene on November 12, 2013, 06:45:51 PM
Silvermist,
I have a recorder on my phone so I've used that to record both the good and bad things they say. I actually have quite a few recordings of them already, some of them are very incriminating. It's a good idea to get a second recorder as back up though. I've tried talking to them about their religious justifications but their beliefs are completely unfounded. They personally are transphobic and homophobic so they try to use religion as an excuse to keep acting on their phobias. In their minds being transgender or gay is sexual deviancy which is why they're so against it, it really has nothing to do with their religious beliefs as I've found out. Thank you for posting the article and the video, they're really informative and it makes me feel better about how I would be viewed from a sensible Christian's stand point.
How can you be so sure that your parents' belief (that homosexuality and ->-bleeped-<- are forms of sexual deviancy) really is not religiously motivated? Human natures makes people fear what they don't understand, but when they subscribe to a non-rational belief system such as a religion, their non-rational fears become amplified and justified. And that's precisely why their minds are so resistant to change. By definition, a rational worldview is open to questioning, logic, and evidence. If we examine the term "sexual deviancy" more closely, we will find that it is rather empty of meaning. Where does one draw the line between what is "deviant" sexual behavior and what is not? Under the strictest definition, any kind of sex other than male-on-top vaginal intercourse solely for purpose of procreation would be considered "deviant." Thus, disapproval of non-procreative, non-vaginal, non-male-on-top sex is ultimately arbitrary.
So what does it have to do with morality or "sin"? The Bible itself does not specify exactly what types of penetration or positions are prohibited. Valid arguments can be made about activities that result in semen landing in places other than the inside of a vagina. But because lesbian sex (assuming that it is between cisgender women, of course) does not involve penises and semen, a strong case could be made that lesbian sex wouldn't even qualify as "sex" under the Bible's criteria. A woman cannot "know" (in the biblical sense) a woman like a man can. The only degree to which concerns about "sexual deviancy" are relevant to morality are situations in which the wellbeing of a participant is directly endangered, especially when the participant has not consented. In a rational worldview, the only kinds of sex that are "wrong" are those that are non-consensual because the immorality of any consensual acts can scarcely be defended on rational grounds.
Saying that lesbianism is wrong because it is "disgusting," "unnatural," and/or nontraditional is fallacious: see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisdom_of_repugnance and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_nature and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalistic_fallacy and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_traditionInterracial marriage was thought be disgusting and was outlawed until just a few decades ago (though some people still find it repugnant). Nylon and computers are unnatural, but very few people have moral problems with those and other synthetic/artificial things. Modern democratic nations like America, France, and the U. K. were founded on rejections of the longstanding "traditional" regimes of monarchy, autocracy, and oligarchy.
Homophobia has been so deeply engrained that most of us have been guilty of it at some point, because we learned by cultural osmosis and hadn't questioned it. Many homosexuals still suffer from internalized homophobia. But every person who has come to accept it has done so because, on closer examination, the fears and prejudices have no rational basis. But sadly, those who cling onto bigotry are motivated by non-rational justifications, religion being one of the most potent and intractable. It's no surprise: Religiously-motivated homophobia isn't just a single belief that's ripe for repudiation; it's woven into the fabric of a person's most deeply-held philosophy, the lens through which she/he makes sense of, and interacts with, the world.
I believe that the hearts and minds of religious people can be changed, even without forcing them to let go of their religions. Religious people are not totally irrational or illogical. And more often than not, their beliefs are not informed by years of thorough scholarship of scripture. For most, their beliefs are formed from gut feelings combined with whatever church leaders say. When they read scripture, the readings are always selective. What might be constructive is to challenge them to reconcile the passages that they hold dear with the ones that they prefer to avoid.
I've already listed the only passage in the Bible that talks about lesbianism. Here's the one that talks about cross-dressing:
Quote from: Deuteronomy 22:5A woman must not wear men's clothing, nor a man wear women's clothing, for the Lord your God detests anyone who does this.
If you Google it, you'll find plenty of people who vehemently assert how "obvious" and "straightforward" that it is. God does not allow cross-dressing, plain and simple. But here are two more passages from the very same chapter of the very same book:
Quote from: Deuteronomy 22:23-24If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the young woman because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man's wife. You must purge the evil from among you.
Quote from: Deuteronomy 22:28-29If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.
That's right. God commands that rape victims be either given the death penalty or forced to marry their rapists, depending on the circumstances. Please note that the above quotes were taken from the New International Version, which is the bestselling English translation in the world (with half a billion copies sold), so it's not like I'm just paraphrasing the Bible to make my point.
As I said, almost everyone these days disregards most of the Old Testament laws like those found in Deuteronomy chapter 22. So if we take the anti-cross-dressing verse off the table and conclude that there is nothing explicitly prohibiting lesbian sex, then the only reason why people like your parents believe that lesbianism and ->-bleeped-<- are forms of sexual deviancy are because they were told so by their church leader(s) and/or because they jumped onto the old homophobia bandwagon without another thought.
If you continue to make excuses for why your parents' minds can't be changed, then they never will change, at least not on their own. Don't you owe it to yourself to try to get through to them? At least by challenging them on scripture, you can make your case using their language.
