Is transitioning always worth it?

[LittleEmily24]

It is me. Though no worries I understand what you mean haha

[Ltl89]

believe me  I'm so truly sorry. Its my fault. I've struggled with this since I was 4 , I still don't know if I would of transition earlier If I could of seen more clearly. I did do a lot of things when I was in my twenties and 30's . The sex  and the drugs and prostitution.    I am truly sorry if I hurt any one by those things  I said. I guess because I waited so long to realize I am transgender I got upset about all this talk Of the age thing. I'm so very sorry.                             

There is no need to apologize.  I just wanted to better explain what I'm trying to say.  So far, I feel that I've done a poor job trying to convey what I really feel.  And for what's it's worth, there are plenty of beautiful and passable older women.  My fear of ageing is a general feeling that isn't related to my transition.   There is nothing wrong with transitioning at an older age.  Hey, I know people who started much earlier than me.  Passing can be achieved no matter your age or so called level of attractiveness.  For me, it's being recognized as female and our true selves which makes passing important to me.

[Janae]

Heather,
I don't think a single person here said they had based their whole transition on looks, what a lot of people said, including myself, is that they based their transition on their ability to be perceived by themselves and by others as a woman, in simpler terms, on their passability. Of course looks come into that since the first thing most people notice is your physical appearance but that's as far is it goes. If you are pretty, attractive etc..that is of course a bonus just like for any other woman.

While I hate getting into arguments on forums, in this particular case I will argue that trying to transition when you clearly do not pass and/or are not in a very well protected job is probably even less wise, in any case for those who still have to earn a living and survive in the big bad world. You are almost certainly setting yourself up for a huge amount of pain and unless you are just a little masochistic or even suicidal, I really don't see how it can be worth it.

As you had the honesty to say, you are expressing the views of a person who passes "pretty well" but, without a lot of effort, surgery etc.. many of us did not or do not.  It was very much my case and I can see a huge difference in the way I am perceived now that I actually do pass pretty well. From the day people started to spontaneously call me Madame it has been a very self reinforcing processing, each Madame adding to my confidence and belief that I could live succesfully as a woman. Without that passability this process would almost certainly never have started and I would have made life a misery both for myself and for those who share my life: wife, children etc...

If there are people who have no need for others and/or believe that it is up to others to recognize us as women no matter what everything about our appearance and presentation is saying , so be it, I admire their courage. However I sure as hell understand those for whom that is too big a challenge.
Warm regards
Donna

Very well put Donna.

I couldn't have put it better myself.

[anjaq]

"always"     I seriously doubt any of us are so smart about knowing our futures that we can predict, with confidence, that we will or won't pass at any percentage after or during transition. [...] No one is born a man or a woman.  [...]
What most troubles me most about this thread are the references to fear based thinking.  Fear of age, ugliness or loss.  Fear and the resultant toxicity of ignorance kept me from transitioning decades ago.

Yes I think the original question was more about that actually - the need to transition regardless of things like "passing" or clothing. I clicked in the vote "Unsure". Why? Because of that fear. When I transitioned it was basically  a choice influenced by fear - it was never a choice to stay living as I did before. The choice was death or transition. I was unsure however because of that fear, if I should do transition or give in to the fear of ridicule and hate and just end it there. I figured that heck, I could at least try it and if it gets as bad as I was feraing, I still would have the other option, but at least by then I would have a body that more resembles what I needed...

And while I think we are not born men or women of course as these terms refer to mature people, I think we are born with girls or boys brains and girls or boys bodies and this is not a social thing. When I transitioned and still to a degree now in this couontry, the concept was that transsexuals have "learned" that they want to be a different gender. I think the theory was that by the age of 3 or so, there is gender identity forming and if something goes wrong there, we get transgender and want to adopt a different social role than our bodies say we should. That is not correct of course - because we are actually BORN this way. I really suffered a bit from that "accusation" that it was a psychological issue rather than a biological one because it always questione dthe validity of my feelings and the solutions I was aiming for.

Not that I'm all that great at GI Joe, but I've tried so hard all my life to head in that direction.  It's a lot more change and adjustment.  I never minded those things that made me look more "manly", e.g., weathered skin, a few small scars, lots of "guy" mannerisms.

You did not mind those things? How did you get that knot into your mind - I can understand enduring it or using it to keep the facade up, but actually not minding them?

How long can I live that way? A long time so far. [...] I'm androgynous. It's easy and not a facade. I'm not working at it. Shifting from androgynous to feminine is a much smaller step than going from GI Joe to Barbie. When you say 'living that way' it is not a very uncomfortable place. It's just not as comfy as a warm feminine persona which is more in harmony with my interior.

Well sure - for a time thats right. I did the same. I was presenting androgynous or maybe a very effininate guy for about a year or so, but not much longer - I could not really do that any longer. I liberated my personality from facades by then, but that made it in the long run impossible for me to not take further steps, mainly to change my body and to go by my new name - these were after all the main changes after that point.

[anjaq]

Ah yeah - well, I am not bad in english but not perfect - I have some scars that i "do not mind" that much then. They are from a snowboarding accident when I broke my upper leg. they have a story and thats sort of ok as I can tell the story - about going down really sttep hills with the board and about breaking that bone and afterwards still go on field trips with my crutches - its kind of neat, "tough girl stories" - a bit "tank girl" - other scars I am not so open about - all the scars from transitioning - not that nice and not a topic I ever want to talk about with random people.

But really about all the "manly" stuff, manners, skin and physical body properties or mannerisms - I minded them a lot. It almost broke me in bits which is why I could not keep it up at age 22 or so and started to break down - or at least the parts of me broke down that used these things to keep danger away. Its funny in a way - I think I could never have made it in my 30ies or 40ies without transitioning or at least trying it...

[JordanBlue]

Its funny in a way - I think I could never have made it in my 30ies or 40ies without transitioning or at least trying it...

I guess it depends on each individual's personal level of gender dysphoria.  A human is capable of doing a lot of things that are not so pleasant in their life.  I was able to somehow contain my true self for 50 years.  That's not to say it didn't surface a few times down thru the years, but I was able to smother it, until this last time.  Do I wish the opportunity had come a lot earlier in my life to deal with this?  Heck, yeah I do, but it didn't happen.  I'm 59 now and it's "deal with it or die" time for me.  It's just that simple.

[Miss_Bungle1991]

I keep seeing this line of thinking over and over: "Maybe people are just saying you pass/regrading you as a woman or man (if you are FtM) to be nice." I SERIOUSLY doubt that is the case. People can be total pricks most of the time and it has been my experience that if someone hates you for whatever reason, they will say why they hate you. I don't know what kind of fantasy land some people live in where people say that you pass when you don't "just to be nice". If this world actually exits, then there more than likely exists some portal to the animated world of Green Meadow. Please direct me to this portal if you know where it is located.

[Tessa James]

Good morning Miss Bungle, nice new avatar couple there. 

We can be most sure of our own experience and perceptions are frequently colored by our expectations.  I expect that most people are really very decent or really unconcerned with my looks.  I do not pass most of the time and am transitioning in a a small rural community where plenty of people already knew me for decades as a guy.  I also expect that my character and ability to create relationships and work toward community is the person i want to keep working on.  I love my new clothes too but that is window dressing to me.   I am and have been out full-time for almost a year now and am treated with respect and virtually all of my public experiences have been positive.  I do not doubt that others have had hardships or endure hate but my real world experience is 180 degrees from the fears that once ruled me. 

My fears kept me closeted and reinforced my previous denial and shame.  That is gone for me and and I say good riddance to those tiresome efforts to fit into anyone else's vision.  I am having FUN

[Gina_Z]

I agree. And I disagree with the perception that most people are pricks. I see most people as decent. A dark view of the world won't get you to where you want to be.

[BunnyBee]

I think the way people treat you depends on where you live and the kind of energy you put out.   Probably more on the latter than anything.

[Miss_Bungle1991]

I agree. And I disagree with the perception that most people are pricks. I see most people as decent. A dark view of the world won't get you to where you want to be.

I only speak from experience. I see a LOT of jerks out there. But, on the other hand, I have met some very cool people. The main problem is that the cool people act civil and don't cause a ruckus. The jerks like to stir up trouble in one way or another every chance that they get, (that is why they are jerks.)

I do agree that a uniformly dark world view isn't the best way to go, BUT having an opposite view point where you believe the world is completely beautiful and everyone is just wonderful & peachy keen will just lead to disappointment and cynicism.

Toronto.

So, the Get Along Gang were from Canada? Hmmm...interesting.

Good morning Miss Bungle, nice new avatar couple there. 

Howdy. Yeah, Dotty & Portia look awesome in their new clothes.

[Randi]

I am an exception to this.  I'm 64 years old, still in good health, retired with a more than adequate income for life.  In another few months I'll be on Medicare and never have to worry about health insurance.

I own my house and cars.  My child is fully educated with a Master's degree.  Now, having passed all of life's tests I look forward to being my own person and living the way I like.  No one can fire me, and my income is very secure.

I enjoy being retired.  I enjoy security.  After decades of striving and fulfilling other people expectations I get to do what I want.

Randi 

I fear aging, but that has nothing to do with my gender.  Male or female, no one looks forward to getting old. 

[evecrook]

good for you

[Miss_Bungle1991]

I fear aging.

I don't.

You can't help the fact that you age.

Honestly, I don't worry about it. Hell, if the doctors predictions had been correct, I would have died sometime in the early 90s. But I am still here and I plan on being an old broad someday. (Or I hope to be, anyway)

[anjaq]

I guess it depends on each individual's personal level of gender dysphoria.  A human is capable of doing a lot of things that are not so pleasant in their life.  I was able to somehow contain my true self for 50 years.

Yeah , maybe . If that is so, my level of dysphoria was pretty great - at 23 I could not bear it anymore even though it was just the 1990ies and still rather hard to transition :\

I keep seeing this line of thinking over and over: "Maybe people are just saying you pass/regrading you as a woman or man (if you are FtM) to be nice." I SERIOUSLY doubt that is the case. People can be total pricks most of the time

No, people can be really nice and be really tolerant but still treat you differently. They will call you a woman and say "I am accepting you as a woman" but you know they are not. They just say words, they do not mean it, it is not even their fault...it runs in the back of their head. They want to be nice people and tolerant but the back of their head says otherwise.

[Janae]

I am an exception to this.  I'm 64 years old, still in good health, retired with a more than adequate income for life.  In another few months I'll be on Medicare and never have to worry about health insurance.

I own my house and cars.  My child is fully educated with a Master's degree.  Now, having passed all of life's tests I look forward to being my own person and living the way I like.  No one can fire me, and my income is very secure.

I enjoy being retired.  I enjoy security.  After decades of striving and fulfilling other people expectations I get to do what I want.

Randi

I would say based on your situation you are a wonderful exception to the example I posted. Unlike the woman I described you are in a place of security at 64. Which if you ask me is pretty amazing. So the risk of loosing that security lessens a great deal. I think passing would be another thing entirely. And even if you never do, your at a point in life where it really won't matter.

I'm glad you've posted this because I think in your case it will be worth it.

[KabitTarah]

I guess it depends on each individual's personal level of gender dysphoria.  A human is capable of doing a lot of things that are not so pleasant in their life.  I was able to somehow contain my true self for 50 years.  That's not to say it didn't surface a few times down thru the years, but I was able to smother it, until this last time.  Do I wish the opportunity had come a lot earlier in my life to deal with this?  Heck, yeah I do, but it didn't happen.  I'm 59 now and it's "deal with it or die" time for me.  It's just that simple.

I think it's more complicated than just level of dysphoria. Dysphoria comes and goes... it's chronic pain and there are methods of dealing with chronic pain. There are ways to lessen the dysphoria and there are ways to (naturally) lower testosterone (and thereby lower dysphoria). There are a ton of variables that go into our individual situations.

My dysphoria was very strong in high school. It's very strong now. The only difference I had when I was closeted was a gain of about 45 lbs (going from BMI Normal or slightly Overweight to well into Obese I)... but there are studies that show testosterone decreases of up to half in obese individuals.

My dysphoria was still strong while I was closeted. I had daily methods of coping with it and only when it was extra bad (usually during certain social/sexual situations) did I really become aware of it.

It's certainly about the dysphoria... but I wouldn't say amount of dysphoria is really what gets us out of the closet... it's just one of the triggers. (And I'm sure I wouldn't have lasted to 35 if I'd been in shape the entire time... but I'm also not sure how I lasted as long as I did considering the need I attempted to fill, daily).

[Ltl89]

I am an exception to this.  I'm 64 years old, still in good health, retired with a more than adequate income for life.  In another few months I'll be on Medicare and never have to worry about health insurance.

I own my house and cars.  My child is fully educated with a Master's degree.  Now, having passed all of life's tests I look forward to being my own person and living the way I like.  No one can fire me, and my income is very secure.

I enjoy being retired.  I enjoy security.  After decades of striving and fulfilling other people expectations I get to do what I want.

Randi

Well, I don't fear being 24 now that I am; however, when I was 18, I was terrified.  And that's how I feel about one day turning 30.  Yeah, it probably won't be bad once I get there, but it's still scary.  We all feel differently about aging, but most people tend to get afraid of getting older than what they currently are.  While they may come to enjoy where they will end up and where they are at the moment, most don't really look forward to putting on more years.  Though, I think it is unrelated to transitioning.  It's just a part of life that we have to learn to accept.  At the end of the day, one's age doesn't matter much in terms of passing or not.  There are many other factors that are important.  Age has little to do with transitioning or whether someone can pass (well, unless you do it very young).

[JordanBlue]

Well, I don't fear being 24 now that I am; however, when I was 18, I was terrified.  And that's how I feel about one day turning 30.  Yeah, it probably won't be bad once I get there, but it's still scary. 

Lord Have Mercy...I'm 35 years older than you!    I'm not trying to discount your own personal fears in any way, but everyone gets older.  There's NO way around it!  AND...I'm just starting this transition journey! You think I'm not scared at my age? Think again!  There's a part of me that's so ecstatic and relieved that my true self is finally starting to emerge...and another part of me that says WTH are you doing at your age?  Know what I mean?  But I feel like I'm 24 inside right now!  The key is... DON'T ACT YOUR AGE!   
Physical beauty fades but a beautiful heart lasts forever... 

[Ltl89]

Lord Have Mercy...I'm 35 years older than you!    I'm not trying to discount your own personal fears in any way, but everyone gets older.  There's NO way around it!  AND...I'm just starting this transition journey! You think I'm not scared at my age? Think again!  There's a part of me that's so ecstatic and relieved that my true self is finally starting to emerge...and another part of me that says WTH are you doing at your age?  Know what I mean?  But I feel like I'm 24 inside right now!  The key is... DON'T ACT YOUR AGE!   
Physical beauty fades but a beautiful heart lasts forever... 

I don't think anyone is getting what I'm trying to say; although, I acknowledge that it's probably my own fault for not properly articulating what I mean.   You are right that everyone gets older and that there is no way around it.  What I've been trying to say is that most of us are scared of it even though it's inevitable.  It's human nature.  Regardless of that fear, one shouldn't let that dictate whether or not they transition.  It's not too late to transition at 75, 60, 30, or 20.  What's important is that you do what's right for you as an individual.  If anyone thinks I'm saying that transitioning is a young person's path, that's not what I intended.  I'm just saying that age is a scary thing to me no matter what.  I just never understood the people who say "I'm afraid of aging and becoming an old this or that, so I shouldn't transition".  It just seems hard for me to understand that mindset.   Fear of passing is understandable to me, but I don't get how age should be a factor on whether or not we transition.   So, yeah, I fear being a grandma one day or losing my so called "beauty" but that doesn't mean that I'm going down the wrong path for having that concern or that transitioning isn't worth it.  Everyone has those aging fears when they are younger (for the most part).  Passing and age are separate things in my book.  There was some conversation on the aging process, and that's why I brought it up.  What I intend to say is fear of aging is natural, but it's separate to passing and whether one should transition.  Age, beauty and passing shouldn't be conflated.  They are all different things.  Fear of passing makes sense to me because of the desire of social acceptance, but letting one's looks or age factor into deciding whether to transition doesn't.  While I fear that I will get older and lose my looks, I still want to be viewed as a woman.  It may suck that I will get older and my looks will fade, still it's an unfortunate part of life.  In the end, those fears and realities don't dictate my path.  Passing and social acceptance, however, seems to matter to me.  How much?  I've yet to fully comprehend it myself.  I'm transitioning no matter what and it is worth it, but I'd be lying if I didn't say passing was important to me.  Nonetheless, passing is distinct from beauty and age (as is age and beauty). 

Hope I'm making some kind of sense.  I've probably confused everyone, myself included, lol.