Susan's Place Logo

News:

Visit our Discord server  and Wiki

Main Menu

so what's wrong with being open and proud

Started by evecrook, December 17, 2013, 09:46:38 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Heather

Quote from: kabit on December 18, 2013, 11:24:07 AM
I work on this every day. The hardest thing? When I talk about myself in the 3rd person (not often, but I've got kids) it's always with male pronouns. That hurts more than anyone else using them and I realize how hard it is to change that mindset. I've had 35 years of thinking myself as "he" and "him." I always correct myself.
It comes with time as you get further in transition the way you see things changes. I've learned in the last year that transitioning is just as much mental change as it is a physical change. Now I wasn't saying being a out and proud trans woman was wrong but as you get further along in transition your perspective changes and you start seeing yourself as just another woman once you start living as one.
I think I've been very lucky that I knew from a early age so I never really identified as a male. So I didn't have that hurdle to overcome but I'm sure you'll overcome it once you get further along and start to live as yourself. 
  •  

Katie

Perhaps a way to illustrate the topics of out vs. keeping your mouth shut is consider the number of trans people that have not had surgery and the ones that have.

How many post op women are out? How many are activists? How many walk around telling people they are trans? I know I know there are some but I submit to you that the overwhelming majority just fade into society. Come to think of it many are not even involved in the trans community.

So back to that wisdom thing. Its very easy to be out when your involved in the trans community and your different because you have not had surgery. It is also very easy to just be a woman once you have had surgery. Of course if you ran your mouth a lot before you had surgery then its hard to be a woman when everyone knows.

Bare in mind a very small amount of people actually get SRS so my words are focused on them only.

Katie
  •  

Tessa James

Heather you are a helpful sister!  I am often amazed by those that seem so certain how life will turn out for them after or during transition.  This feels like an abbreviated new puberty for me and some of the things I was once so sure of are giving way to the reality of my first year being out full time.

Experience is a challenging way to learn but allows for us to evolve along the way.

Actually Katie I find it is challenging to be out and involved with the trans community and activism but well worth it.  I have given up on predicting the future for others.  Neither you nor I really know what's between someones legs and that seems a crude definition of being a woman.
Open, out and evolving queer trans person forever with HRT support since March 13, 2013
  •  

ThePhoenix

I would draw a distinction between those who pass and those who don't rather than those who have had any particular surgery versus those who have not.  Relatively few who pass are out and open about being anywhere on the trans* spectrum, regardless of whether they have had SRS.  Those who don't pass, on the other hand, have little choice about being out or not.  Again, regardless of whether they have had SRS.

SRS itself is something that gets a huge amount of importance in many people's minds.  I am not knocking that because for some it truly is the end-all-be-all, for others it is irrelevant, and for most it's somewhere between those extremes.  And that's fine.  But in terms of blending in day to day, its importance is relatively low because it affects body parts that are or ally covered. 

And of course the above is only in response to mtf spectrum SRS.  For ftm spectrum individuals, the question of "what surgery do you mean?" gets all the more complex.  Mastectomy, for example, affects a persons blend ability a whole lot more than phaloplasty because it affects something visible and alleviates the need to bind, which eliminates the need to choose between breathing and passing. 
  •  

Ltl89

I'm confused on how srs is necessary for passing or stealth.   Most people are not going to see your genitals. Yeah, you can be stealth afterward srs but you can also be stealth beforehand.   I'm planning on being as stealth as possible once I go full time,  but I'll never have the luxury of being totally stealth.  The fact is my family,  friends and coworkers have seen my changes and will continue to witness them.  There is no hiding from them because I'm early in my transition.  But I don't plan on telling anyone in the future.   And my involvement in the trans community is limited to this site where I can share things anonymously without making my name or appearance public.   It will never be total stealth, but i think I'll be okay.
  •  

Heather

I sorry if this offends anybody but every time I hear somebody bragging about being post-op, it reminds me how men brag about the size of their penis.  ::) How many women go around bragging about what's between their legs?  ;)
  •  

Devlyn

Quite a few, haven't you been reading the threads?  :laugh:  :laugh:
  •  

JRD

Nothing wrong with being out and proud, everyone should live their life as they see fit, not by how others are living theirs.
  •  

Ltl89

Quote from: Heather on December 18, 2013, 02:56:48 PM
I sorry if this offends anybody but every time I hear somebody bragging about being post-op, it reminds me how men brag about the size of their penis.  ::) How many women go around bragging about what's between their legs?  ;)

I can understand being proud about reaching a goal and having fully gotten there, but I don't understand why some use it to distinguish themselves as superior than pre-ops or non-ops.  One of my best friends is post op and she is nothing other than supportive, helpful and understanding to someone like me who is just starting out.  Yeah, she made it through and has a lot to be happy and proud about, but she doesn't treat me as any less of a women for starting out where she once was.  Most post-ops are like that, so I hate the surgery wars that seem to be spreading on the site as of late.  It's bizarre. 
  •  

Devlyn

It's a cycle, hon. Once enough of the post op elitists gather together, they do this. It's ugly, but predictable. Stick around and you'll witness it time after time. Hugs, Devlyn
  •  

Nicolette

Quote from: learningtolive on December 18, 2013, 02:42:15 PM
I'm confused on how srs is necessary for passing or stealth.   Most people are not going to see your genitals. Yeah, you can be stealth afterward srs but you can also be stealth beforehand.   I'm planning on being as stealth as possible once I go full time,  but I'll never have the luxury of being totally stealth.  The fact is my family,  friends and coworkers have seen my changes and will continue to witness them.  There is no hiding from them because I'm early in my transition.  But I don't plan on telling anyone in the future.   And my involvement in the trans community is limited to this site where I can share things anonymously without making my name or appearance public.   It will never be total stealth, but i think I'll be okay.

Quite obviously, SRS is not required to pass or to be stealth. But SRS does permit a further level of stealth, if it's something one wishes to pursue. I'm open to my close family and some medical practitioners. Being proud doesn't compute.
  •  

Ltl89

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on December 18, 2013, 03:12:18 PM
It's a cycle, hon. Once enough of the post op elitists gather together, they do this. It's ugly, but predictable. Stick around and you'll witness it time after time. Hugs, Devlyn

But why? Do they all forget that there was a time that they started their transition?   Do they not remember how much time, money and effort transitioning takes? Seriously,  some act like every thing should be accomplished over one night and that you're a fake for not doing that. Hell, I'm jealous if it was like that for some but most of us don't go through that.  Realistically,  srs won't be possible for me until 2015 and probably not 2016 for financial reasons.   I'd love an opportunity overnight transition but it's not in my cards and it was the same way for my post op friend.  So, why judge those who are younger or started at a different point? For the record,  most post ops that I know aren't like that and many have been inspirational and helpful to me.  It's just weird.
  •  

Jill F

Quote from: Heather on December 18, 2013, 02:56:48 PM
I sorry if this offends anybody but every time I hear somebody bragging about being post-op, it reminds me how men brag about the size of their penis.  ::) How many women go around bragging about what's between their legs?  ;)

I don't get the "trannier than thou" thing either.  Must one validate themselves by invalidating others?  Women with grace don't brag at all.
  •  

Ltl89

Quote from: Nicolette on December 18, 2013, 03:13:38 PM
Quite obviously, SRS is not required to pass or to be stealth. But SRS does permit a further level of stealth, if it's something one wishes to pursue. I'm open to my close family and some medical practitioners. Being proud doesn't compute.

Sure, but only to those who would see you without clothes.  Other than that, it's not giving you much more of a stealth privilege.   I'm planning on going stealth as soon as I go full time and will continue that once I'm able to have srs.  I don't see why I must wait for srs before going stealth.  Just my opinion.

  •  

Jean24

There's absolutely nothing wrong with being open. I'm not open because I don't feel the same way about things as you do, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that either.
Trying to take it one day at a time :)
  •  

Nicolette

Quote from: learningtolive on December 18, 2013, 03:34:41 PM
Sure, but only to those who would see you without clothes.  Other than that, it's not giving you much more of a stealth privilege.   I'm planning on going stealth as soon as I go full time and will continue that once I'm able to have srs.  I don't see why I must wait for srs before going stealth.  Just my opinion.

I agree that SRS is not required, as I was pre-op and stealth for many years. But I think one is braver attempting a long-term stealth pre-op, as it can be quite stressful at times.
  •  

Jill F

Quote from: Gene24 on December 18, 2013, 03:42:01 PM
There's absolutely nothing wrong with being open. I'm not open because I don't feel the same way about things as you do, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that either.

And there's no one-size-fits-all approach to being trans.  What works for some people's situations doesn't necessarily work elsewhere.  I think Julia Serano put it best when she said that there is no one way to be trans.   There are as many ways as there are transfolk.
  •  

BunnyBee

Quote from: Katie on December 18, 2013, 02:09:33 PM
Perhaps a way to illustrate the topics of out vs. keeping your mouth shut is consider the number of trans people that have not had surgery and the ones that have.

How many post op women are out? How many are activists? How many walk around telling people they are trans? I know I know there are some but I submit to you that the overwhelming majority just fade into society. Come to think of it many are not even involved in the trans community.

So back to that wisdom thing. Its very easy to be out when your involved in the trans community and your different because you have not had surgery. It is also very easy to just be a woman once you have had surgery. Of course if you ran your mouth a lot before you had surgery then its hard to be a woman when everyone knows.

Bare in mind a very small amount of people actually get SRS so my words are focused on them only.

Katie

Everybody should use their real life pictures for their avatar on a trans website to prove they are in transition, but the true transsexuals live in stealth and never drew attention to the fact that they were trans while they transitioned?   Ok got it.

Btw, both sides are responsible for any argument, so maybe we can cool it with everybody making one side out to be the enemy.  Especially when there is a straw man on the premises riling everybody up against them.
  •  

Ltl89



Quote from: Jen on December 18, 2013, 04:08:19 PM
Everybody should use their real life pictures for their avatar on a trans website to prove they are in transition, but the true transsexuals live in stealth and never drew attention to the fact that they were trans while they transitioned?   Ok got it.

Btw, both sides are responsible for any argument, so maybe we can cool it with everybody making one side out to be the enemy.  Especially when there is a straw man on the premises riling everybody up against them.

I agree that the apparent surgery wars on this site are silly and unnecessary.   There is nothing wrong with being post-op, pre-op or non-op and there is no reason for us to turn on one another.   I'm getting upset with some of the judgement popping up against pre-ops/non-ops and the bitterness that some post-ops are showing on this site as of late, but it doesn't reflect on any community as a whole.

And thank you for pointing out the contradiction.  I'm not going to out myself on a public site to appease anyone, especially those who seem bitter towards new transitioners.  It's ridiculous to believe that one must expose their identity in order to prove they are trans when it's that very kind of thing that makes going stealth harder.


  •  

Katie

Thinking that as Devlyn put it some people are not reading the posts very well. On top of that they somehow have this crystal ball that allows them to see past what the words are saying and draw strange negative ideas in their heads, finally culminating in all encompassing negativity. I suppose that's why there is therapists, so people can work on these problems.

Oh well. Time for some coffee.

Katie
  •