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A Circumstantial Androgyne

Started by aucoraborealis, December 19, 2013, 03:23:17 PM

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aucoraborealis

I'll try my best to keep this short!

I started transitioning in 2009 immediately after my marriage, much to my wife's dismay. I always thought I could tolerate life as a guy, but I had my worst bout of dysphoria a few nights before the wedding and finally had to do something about it. At four months into HRT I could tell our marriage was doomed. It wasn't what she signed up for, and my timing was pretty terrible. So I stopped. I was happy for about a year, but the dysphoria started coming back with greater frequency and intensity until this September when I had a pretty massive meltdown.

Since then my wife and I have had a series of fully disclosed conversations that have led us, not just me, to the decision that I should start hormones again. We've both had to make compromises to ensure our marriage stays healthy and intact, such as...


  • We've always wanted two kids, so we wanted to be pregnant again before I start HRT. That's been taken care as of five weeks ago :laugh:
  • I can't live as a woman. I need to continue living as a guy and using male pronouns (even at home). Yikes.

I'll be taking HRT and getting my facial hair removed as time and money permit, but I'll be living my life as I always have: a guy. So it seems that I'm a circumstantial androgyne. I'm fine with this, but I have some concerns that I hope some of you could help me clear up.


  • I don't have to hide the evidence of my breasts at home, but I'll be hiding them in public every day for the rest of my life. Everyone says it's quite easy to hide them, but most of them are only doing it until they're ready to go full-time. Has anyone here experienced a life time of hiding their breasts? I have a feeling that might get really old after a few years.
  • My other concern is being stuck in-between genders. I've always thought this would be awesome, but now that hormones are only a month away, I'm wondering if being stuck in the middle and always having to hide certain aspects of myself might bring on a whole new kind of dysphoria. Simple things like swimming, or wearing form fitting shirts, and, quite frankly, sex.
  • What if I stop passing as a guy? How does society tend to treat you when it isn't sure where you sit on the gender scale? I'm 5'11, athletic build, and I have a masculine brow and nose, but aside from that I don't see too much stopping me from passing after a few years of hormones and electrolysis. I'd love to know if anyone else has gone through this. This is me: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxdDME2mLagwNXNmOC1RaG1WOUU/edit?usp=sharing (I'm a stylized portrait photographer. My selfie's tend to be over the top haha)


My decision to start HRT is out of necessity. It's something I have to do. I'm just trying to wrap my head around what exactly I'm getting myself into.
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Lavender

Shew, I knew marriage is compromise but that's gota be a job o.o still, glad she is willing to sort of meet in the middle and understands. Dunno if that will be too healthy for you though considering it isn't your intention, and could keep that dysphoria floating around, but I can't say what will bother you and what won't seeing as I'm not you lol.

Not the best to comment on your situation. Still, wish you the best of luck and hope the family stays together and happy!
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aucoraborealis

Thank you. We live in a rural logging town and both come from conservative Christian families so there are a lot of relationships at stake. If we lived in a big city she'd probably be more open to the idea of me living as a girl, but this is the best way to keep our family safe in this town.
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Lavender

Awh...I see, and know your feeling. Very much the same here, and have the lovely awkwardness of living in walking distance of my Aunt, Uncle, Grandmother AND Grandfather along with living with my parents xD all of them not very tolerant.

That paints a bit more of an understandable picture Aucora.
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aucoraborealis

Just Cora :)

It's tricky with family. I could never understand why it was such a hard thing for them to grasp. I mean they've known me all my life. But then I remember that they haven't been through this. It's completely unrelatable (why is that not a word?) and strange to them.

I'd probably react the same way to something I didn't understand :P
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genderhell

Quote from: aucoraborealis on December 19, 2013, 03:23:17 PM
Since then my wife and I have had a series of fully disclosed conversations that have led us, not just me, to the decision that I should start hormones again. We've both had to make compromises to ensure our marriage stays healthy and intact, such as...

Wow. Your wife is awesome.  :angel:

QuoteI can't live as a woman. I need to continue living as a guy and using male pronouns (even at home). Yikes.

I have been on small HRT for 9 years and I still make it as a guy. I was thin and healthy, now I am plump. I fattened myself up so that my boobs, fat rear, hips, plump face, chubby belly can all be explained away that I am just fat.

I can be either gender.  >:-)

I look a lot like the picture of Lavender above.

I only needed a small amount of estrogen to end mental GD. However, it is intoxicating to be able to express myself femininity that is hard not to take more. You will need self-control, and you appear to assume you won't change, and your real self won't take over, and go all the way.

There is a sacrifice you will have to make possibly. Full estrogen = no way to pass as a male unless you put on fake beard maybe, Less Estrogen = maybe still pass as a male yet perhaps not the fully-feminite creature you long to be.

I work from home and rarely leave my home, so this is possible for me.

Do you plan full HRT ? Have you thought about going to your dentist, or your doctor as this hybrid person you plan to make ?   :o
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aucoraborealis

Quote from: genderhell on December 19, 2013, 08:25:19 PM
Wow. Your wife is awesome.  :angel:

She certainly is!

Quote from: genderhell on December 19, 2013, 08:25:19 PM
There is a sacrifice you will have to make possibly. Full estrogen = no way to pass as a male unless you put on fake beard maybe, Less Estrogen = maybe still pass as a male yet perhaps not the fully-feminite creature you long to be.

Do you plan full HRT ? Have you thought about going to your dentist, or your doctor as this hybrid person you plan to make ?   :o

That's my conundrum. I want every possible benefit HRT can give me. I don't want to settle for anything less.

When it comes to other people's opinions of me I could honestly care less. It's only for my wife's sake that I have to hide it in public (people tend to talk in this town). When I lived in Vancouver I didn't really entertain the notion of transition, so I lived a genderqueer lifestyle and was never bothered by the smirks and name calling. I publicly wore skirts, women's jeans and tops, etc. on a regular basis.

I do think about the push-push-push mentality I might develop. I think that's the main reason I'm concerned about not passing as a guy anymore. It might push me to go full time and it scares me to think of what that would do to my marriage. We could be stronger by then, but there's no way to know for certain. If only there was a way to preview the future.

My other main concern is the physical discomfort I might suffer from always hiding my breasts.
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Randi

My experience may be illuminating for you.  I am 64 years old, retired, married 31 years with a 26 year old daughter who lives in another state.  I've been on HRT for six years and was hypogonadic (Low T) for years before that.

I present mostly male, but have long fingernails and a hairless body.  I'm overweight, but have great looking, muscular legs.  My face is pretty androgynous, but my head is partially bald.

My boobs are on the large side, but I don't really make an effort to hide them.  I use the pool at the YMCA and do water aerobics wearing only swim trunks.  When on cardio machines or walking I wear a stretchy T-shirt that leaves no doubt about the boobs.  I do sometimes drape a towel around my neck with the ends covering my front.

The really strange thing is that no one, other than my wife and daughter, has ever said anything about my boobs. I am not self-conscious about them.  I guess it's sort of like someone missing a limb or an eye.  No one comes up and says: "Hey I see you lost an arm there!". I find great comfort in the shape of my body.  I'm definitely not male anymore, and I want people to know that.

As I frequently say, no one is going to arrest you for illegal possession of boobs.  I have soft skin and round feminine butt.  My pants fit differently, and it feels different when I sit or walk.

My sex life with my wife is very, very different, but fully satisfying for both of us.  We don't do PIV any more, but in a moment of candor she told me she likes other forms of sexual stimulation better.  So do I.  I won't go into details but we both end up fully satisfied.

In summary, Yes I do think it can work.  Don't ever fail to show your wife you love her, that you can and will take care of her, and that you won't have sex with anyone else.  With those assurances she may come to love you even more in your new feminine form.

Randi



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aucoraborealis

Thank you, Randi. Very reassuring words :)
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genderhell

Quote from: aucoraborealis on December 19, 2013, 08:55:08 PM
When it comes to other people's opinions of me I could honestly care less. It's only for my wife's sake that I have to hide it in public (people tend to talk in this town). When I lived in Vancouver I didn't really entertain the notion of transition, so I lived a genderqueer lifestyle and was never bothered by the smirks and name calling. I publicly wore skirts, women's jeans and tops, etc. on a regular basis.

What about the opinions of your employer? Your doctor? The police?

Doctors have told me "Call First", because they think someone may not like me.

QuoteMy other main concern is the physical discomfort I might suffer from always hiding my breasts.

"Hiding your breasts" ?

On full HRT you will look female in a few months, so no need to hide your breasts at that point?
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aucoraborealis

I'm not terribly concerned with the opinions of doctors and officials, as I'm not trying to legally change my gender, but if that becomes an issue in this small town I'll just move back to Vancouver.

As far as looking female after a few months of HRT, you must have struck the genetics jackpot. I don't think most of us are so lucky. I was on HRT for four months a few years ago and I still looked very much like a guy. I was feminine by then, sure, but that was due more to makeup and hair styling.
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Roberta W

Hi!  Wow, your story sounds so familiar!  I had a nearly identical circumstance almost 30 years ago.  I was married for a few years, fighting the urges and the "truth" ... My wife had no problem with me pursuing my needs, as long as we had our two kids first.  We had our two daughters, then I followed through with SRA and BA.  I'm now 28 years post-op, and by breasts have been with me ever since, size C or D cup.  Like you, no need to "hide" them around home, but in public I still do.  Close friends who I interact with frequently have noticed they are there, but it is NOT that difficult to conceal them in public venues ... Even swimming pools.  All you need is a XXXL T-Shirt.  I have never had an issue with getting "tired" of it, so I would say that you need to follow your needs.  Those "meltdowns" you mention will just keep coming until you do what you need to do.

Here is the original post I put into this forum back in October, it says a few more things:

OK, I have never heard of this category before, but the scary thing is that it seems to fit me!  I was born male, but had SRS and BA (to a D-Cup) a long time ago ... Back in the '80s.  But I've never gone "full time" female, a little cross-dressing, but I continue to embrace my male side as well, and I retain my male name.  I wore earrings before they were in vogue (triple pierced ears), I had electrolysis and am now completely hairless (chest, underarms), and after the SRS my legs lost all of their hair as well.  I can go into a public pool in a two-piece or as a guy with a XXXL T-Shirt & big trunks.  (The SRS is obvious with the two-piece).  But I'm still embracing both sides.  What does that make me?  As you can see, I remain confused ... Or maybe just living on both sides of the fence depending on how I feel that day!

The responses I got were useful ... You can find this post on page 2 of this forum, and you can read the responses.  Now I am no longer confused as the original post said.

Roberto
It took a lot of doing, but I take a lot of pride in what I am.
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aucoraborealis

Wow! Very similar indeed! And reassuring to hear that you manage to hide your breasts after having a BA. I've heard it's a lot more difficult to hide them after.

If you don't mind, what's the title of your previous thread? I'm on Tapatalk and can't seem to find it.
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Roberta W

Hi aucoraborealis ... I think it was called "Im Confused" or "OK, Now I'm confused".  By the way, the posting by Randi is also very similar!  One of my daughters is now 27 years old and living in another state ... Just like Randi's comment.  Randi is also correct that some people do notice, but they don't say anything, and many probably don't care one way or another.  Sometimes I think we're more worried about what others think than we should, or it may be that we convince ourselves that everyone is "talking", but in reality they are not and we are creating the thoughts that they are in our own minds only.  I see the other comments about what do dentists, doctors etc. think ... I've had no issues with that over the past 30 years in that area, and I've moved around a bit, hence I've seen multiple professionals.  The first time I went to a dermatologist to check for dangerous moles I was a bit concerned, but he didn't seem to be too surprised when I took off my shirt and bra ... So perhaps I will say at this point that after all these years I'm de-sensitized to those types of concerns.  Only when I need to get up in front of a bunch of people at work to make a presentation do I even think about which shirt may do the best job of hiding my breasts ... The rest of the time I just wear what's comfortable, and I'm sure that most people at work have by now noticed, but don't say anything ... Who knows what they think!  As everyone else has commented, I can be concerned about what they think, so I don't care.  I have to be me!

Roberto
It took a lot of doing, but I take a lot of pride in what I am.
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Roberta W

Hi again aucoraborealis ... It was called "Now I'm Confused", posted November 17th 2013 at 10:17:58.
Roberto
It took a lot of doing, but I take a lot of pride in what I am.
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Roberta W

aucoraborealis ... Your post really intrigues me ... And your pointed question "has anyone ever had a lifetime hiding their breasts?" is right on target for me.  The answer is yes ... and no as I explained earlier.

Following are excerpts from our post, with my comments preceded with a double asterisk (**):

** Your first two "conditions" are nearly identical to what I went through:

1.We've always wanted two kids, so we wanted to be pregnant again before I start HRT. That's been taken care as of five weeks ago. [smiley face]
2.I can't live as a woman. I need to continue living as a guy and using male pronouns (even at home). Yikes.

I'll be taking HRT and getting my facial hair removed as time and money permit, but I'll be living my life as I always have: a guy. So it seems that I'm a circumstantial androgyne. I'm fine with this, but I have some concerns that I hope some of you could help me clear up.

** Same here.  I had electrolysis as time and money permitted, but only on my chest and underarms.

1.I don't have to hide the evidence of my breasts at home, but I'll be hiding them in public every day for the rest of my life. Everyone says it's quite easy to hide them, but most of them are only doing it until they're ready to go full-time. Has anyone here experienced a life time of hiding their breasts? I have a feeling that might get really old after a few years.

** I'm not convinced that you'll feel the need to hide your breasts every day for the rest of your life.  First of all, "hiding" does not mean binding or wearing a gynecomastia vest every day ... any loose fitting shirt does a pretty good job.  As I said in my earlier post, you can become selective about when or even how much to hide them ... Plus it depends, of course, on how big the breasts are.  Mine are C cup or D cup (depending on bra-brand), and some bras (like sports bras) naturally compress the breasts more than others that "shape".  As I said, I've had my breasts for 30 years and I don't put much effort into hiding them ... Sometimes I get called "ma'am", but then they typically change to "sir".  Who knows what they may be thinking.  Who cares!

2.My other concern is being stuck in-between genders. I've always thought this would be awesome, but now that hormones are only a month away, I'm wondering if being stuck in the middle and always having to hide certain aspects of myself might bring on a whole new kind of dysphoria. Simple things like swimming, or wearing form fitting shirts, and, quite frankly, sex.

** I'm not sure what you mean by "stuck in the middle".  You mention that your wife is on-board with the HRT, so that's all that matters.  Some of the other posts give you some advice here, most basically say "don't worry about it" ... You've got to do what you know in your heart of hearts what you need to do.

3.What if I stop passing as a guy? How does society tend to treat you when it isn't sure where you sit on the gender scale? I'm 5'11, athletic build, and I have a masculine brow and nose, but aside from that I don't see too much stopping me from passing after a few years of hormones and electrolysis. I'd love to know if anyone else has gone through this. This is me: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxdDME2mLagwNXNmOC1RaG1WOUU/edit?usp=sharing (I'm a stylized portrait photographer. My selfie's tend to be over the top haha)

** If you don't want to stop passing as a guy, you probably won't have that problem.  I don't.  You didn't mention it, but I assume you are NOT having the SRS surgery(?).  I did have the SRS operation way back in 1986, and that led to some other subtle changes, such as losing the hair on my legs.  It slowed my beard, but it still grows, needing to be shaved only about once per week though.  I really don't think that passing as a guy is an issue.

** If you like, I could sent you a "selfie" as you call it, but I don't have a way to post one on a web site like you did.  Perhaps the attachments option below would allow that, but I'll have to find a photo first.

Roberto
It took a lot of doing, but I take a lot of pride in what I am.
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aucoraborealis

Thank you so much for your replies, Roberto. It's such a relief to find someone who has been through all of this before. I hope you don't mind me picking your brain from time to time :)

Quote from: Roberto on December 23, 2013, 10:25:35 PM
** Same here.  I had electrolysis as time and money permitted, but only on my chest and underarms.

ARMPITS?! Oooooouch.

Quote from: Roberto on December 23, 2013, 10:25:35 PM
** I'm not convinced that you'll feel the need to hide your breasts every day for the rest of your life.  First of all, "hiding" does not mean binding or wearing a gynecomastia vest every day ... any loose fitting shirt does a pretty good job.  As I said in my earlier post, you can become selective about when or even how much to hide them ... Plus it depends, of course, on how big the breasts are.  Mine are C cup or D cup (depending on bra-brand), and some bras (like sports bras) naturally compress the breasts more than others that "shape".  As I said, I've had my breasts for 30 years and I don't put much effort into hiding them ... Sometimes I get called "ma'am", but then they typically change to "sir".  Who knows what they may be thinking.  Who cares!

I won't be getting them "enhanced" so I guess that's good news for me. A natural B cup would be great, but I'm not forming any expectations. That said, I do enjoy my form fitting shirts, but I'm sure I'll figure it out.

Quote from: Roberto on December 23, 2013, 10:25:35 PM
** I'm not sure what you mean by "stuck in the middle".  You mention that your wife is on-board with the HRT, so that's all that matters.  Some of the other posts give you some advice here, most basically say "don't worry about it" ... You've got to do what you know in your heart of hearts what you need to do.

I think this is something I'll figure out as I go. I'm nervous is all. Nervous that my wife will lose interest in my body. Nervous because I won't belong to either gender. Etc.

Quote from: Roberto on December 23, 2013, 10:25:35 PM
** If you don't want to stop passing as a guy, you probably won't have that problem.  I don't.  You didn't mention it, but I assume you are NOT having the SRS surgery(?).  I did have the SRS operation way back in 1986, and that led to some other subtle changes, such as losing the hair on my legs.  It slowed my beard, but it still grows, needing to be shaved only about once per week though.  I really don't think that passing as a guy is an issue.

I'm not having SRS, but I am hoping to retain function down there. I'm not terribly concerned about failing in boy mode though. I'm not a super masculine guy, but I do have a strong German frame and face. I'd be surprised if anyone ever mistook me for a girl. I'm curious to know how much HRT will actually feminize my face though.

Quote from: Roberto on December 23, 2013, 10:25:35 PM
** If you like, I could sent you a "selfie" as you call it, but I don't have a way to post one on a web site like you did.  Perhaps the attachments option below would allow that, but I'll have to find a photo first.

That'd be great! I've been trying to find examples of people living the life I'm about to. I uploaded my photo to my Google Drive account. If you don't want it to be public though you could always email it to me. I'll PM you my email if you'd like.
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Roberta W

Hi Cora ... Yes, please, please feel free to pick my brain any time you like.  I'm not on here every day, but sooner or later I'll find your responses.  Sometimes work consumes my time, sometimes I'm away from home.

I have no idea how HRT will affect male functionality ... So I can't help there.  If you look through all of the posts in the M-to-F transgender forum, you'll see that there are a lot of people wishing that HRT would do a better job of feminizing their faces, so I agree that you probably won't have a problem there.

In my case, even though I had SRS 28 years ago, not much feminizing of my face took place, but that did not bother me.  You do not have to live as a woman to enjoy the female form.  I had other reasons for proceeding with the SRS, medical reasons ... and I do not regret my decision.

For the record, there are a lot of guys out there with breasts showing through form-fitting shirts.  Some are cases of gynecomastia, others are just "normally not flat" ... None of them are sensitive to it, and I think most people don't pay a lot of attention to it.  You may be nervous, but you should go ahead and follow your path.  As you say, you will figure it out as you go ... Enjoy the journey!

Roberto
It took a lot of doing, but I take a lot of pride in what I am.
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Roberta W

Cora ... I do have a few photos I could send you, but I don't know how to attach a photo in this forum.  Is there a place to click to add an attachment?  I don't see one.  It's not a matter of being public or not ...
On the other hand, if you PM me (however that works), I'll be glad to send you these photos.  How does PM work?  Do we both need to be on at the same time?  Is that the "chat" category?  Thanks for your help.

Roberto
It took a lot of doing, but I take a lot of pride in what I am.
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aucoraborealis

Hey Roberto, you can always email me at youfoundcora at gmail dot com :)
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