Yet another Yeson VFS thread

[AmyBerlin]

Hello Anja,

I would be really interested in what your voice teacher (is it a voice therapist or phoniater or a singing teracher?) has to say. They usually are so dead against it... it would be cool to get them convinced - it would really speak for the procedure.

My voice teacher is a singing teacher who has had both classical training and experience singing jazz and related styles. We also work together as a piano-and-voice duo. One time on tour we had adjacent hotel rooms and she heard me doing voice warmups in the morning in order to be able to do my trained voice. Then she understood and supported my decision to go to Korea and have it done.

Amy

[anjaq]

Ah ok - so she knows the origin of your voice issues? You do regular warmups daily in the morning? I am trying to do that now, but often forget it
But it would be interesting to see what she has to comment as a voice expert I bet she will be rather pleasently suprised given the bad reputation voice surgery has in this country

[AmyBerlin]

Hi Anja,

Lots of questions in a short posting... :-)

Ah ok - so she knows the origin of your voice issues? You do regular warmups daily in the morning? I am trying to do that now, but often forget it
But it would be interesting to see what she has to comment as a voice expert I bet she will be rather pleasently suprised given the bad reputation voice surgery has in this country

I came out to her like a year and a half ago, so she knows the reason why. And yes, I did regular warmups and am now getting into the habit of doing them again, but this time the Yeson exercises. And my teacher heard me talk over the past weeks and is already very positively impressed by the Yeson surgery.

Amy

[Charlotte]

Hello Amy,
I was going to say what Jenny and Anja said but they beat me to it. What I did notice was at the end of your interview you have a lovely natural laugh. Also at the points in the interview where you hesitate you don't have any frys (or similar) in them; something I used to do.
I think the rainbow passage is really useful for standardization but it doesn't give the whole picture in the way an interview does.

I'll be very interested to hear if you augment the Yeson exercises with any of your own.

Charlotte

[Nicolette]

I'm so impressed with Amy's recovery that I'm actually tempted to go to Yeson myself. Anyone from the UK, post transition, wanna share a ride to Korea?  I'm not certain going by oneself would be wise.

[anjaq]

Sorry, only from Germany and it will probably be next year, not that soon. But two people without voice - thats not helping

[Nicolette]

Oh, that's a pity. Having someone that can speak, yes that would be most helpful. How about a mobile text to speech app? My mum, although she accompanied me for srs in Canada, is not in the least interested in the idea of South Korea, for some reason..

[Allyda]

I'm just going to have to have mine done here in the state of Florida where I live where it's covered by my insurance. Finances just aren't going to permit me to go to Seoul and have it done by Dr. Kim as I'd hoped. However, my voice is so horrible anything would be better than the voice I have now so, I haven't much to lose by taking my chances.

Ally

[anjaq]

Well - if you get insurance coverage, thats tempting of course. I hope they have some decent surgeons there then. I know with the ones here locally who do it on insurance, one can be lucky if one is really careful and uses the Dr Kim instructions and not the local ones. And even if many of the results sound breathy or a bit hoarse, almost all of them sound female and most people report they dont get misgendered on the phone anymore, so I guess it works, even if the voice is not great afterwards, it is at least female sounding and thats what was most important for all of them.

[Nicolette]

I haven't been misgendered on the phone since around 1996. I don't know why, but I love the phone. BUT not all phones are alike. I hate phones that don't have sidetone. Without sidetone, I don't get proper feedback and thus I do not feel like I'm tuning my voice to the correct pitch. With sidetone, I know how I sound to the listener and can make corrections.

At the end of the day, literally, or when I'm feeling tired or down, or speaking my first utterance of the day without having warmed up, maintaining my ideal pitch becomes tiresome. My voice will start to sound heavier and less smooth. It sounds like Yeson can help with that. I'd pay for that.

[Allyda]

Well - if you get insurance coverage, thats tempting of course. I hope they have some decent surgeons there then. I know with the ones here locally who do it on insurance, one can be lucky if one is really careful and uses the Dr Kim instructions and not the local ones. And even if many of the results sound breathy or a bit hoarse, almost all of them sound female and most people report they dont get misgendered on the phone anymore, so I guess it works, even if the voice is not great afterwards, it is at least female sounding and thats what was most important for all of them.

I really do very much appreciate your concern and suggestions. If you heard what I have now for a voice, you'd understand my reasoning. Yes, I hope I can find a surgeon that uses Dr. Kim's method. But to me, my voice is a bit scratchy now. And, even a scratchy female voice will be better than what I have now. As I said, the way I see it, I've nothing to lose.

Ally

[anjaq]

Sure. i know some people who had similar reasoning - nothing to loose and no real viable alternative. they are happy as well - scratchy female voices are still female - but please stay away from CTA surgeons if possible. The voices they create do always sound stressed and the effect goes away with time, which would mean you would end up not gaining much in the long run. Imagine a guitar string that you tighten to get a pitcher note and then let it sit for some years without further tightening - it will eventually get lower again. Its the same principle. And if you find a surgeon and go for it, make sure you follow the stricter procedures post op that Dr Kim suggests even if the local surgeons do not deem it necessary and would allow oyu to speak after a week or two.

[Jennygirl]

but please stay away from CTA surgeons if possible

Seconded. I've seen quite a few sites still heralding cricothyroid approximation (CTA) as a very viable way to feminize one's voice. But, it couldn't be farther from the truth. That is the exact same operation that earned voice surgeries a bad name... And why so many voice therapists have negative preconceived notions about any voice surgery.

Be very very careful Allyda. Especially with voice, don't just trust a surgeon's word. It is all about the before/after samples that they should be able to provide. And, I don't care how good the samples are, I would NEVER trust CTA.

If you have a scratchy voice, it could be for a number of reasons. A few I can think of include essential voice tremor, vocal polyp/nodule, vocal fold asymmetry, or maybe vocal fold paralysis. Most of these things are treatable with surgery. The benefit of having VFS is that the surgeon will have the opportunity to improve that problem simultaneously

[Nicolette]

The NHS were offering CTA to me for free back in 1996. I declined when they finally set the surgery date. I had met with a patient of this treatment and couldn't get over how falsetto and Mickey Mouse they sounded. And the long prominent scar that's left at the incision site is also another reason I was put off. No way Jose.

As has been said before, these surgeries do not make you sound female. Garbage In Garbage Out. How female you sound is proportional to amount of effort you put into voice therapy in developing that. Ally, I presume you've tried voice therapy?

[anjaq]

CTA seems to me to combine the downsides of Dr Thoman and Dr kims approach - it mainly just increases pitch, just like Dr Kims work, so you need voice training to get a nice sounding voice anyways - and it leaves a scar like Dr Thomas aproach does. Plus as a "bonus" it makes your voice sound strained. If you are in the US, Ally, can you convince your insurance to pay for the Dr Thomas Femlar surgery? It is probably one of the best approaches there is in the US.

About CTA - consider this - wht it does is basically mimicking your own efforts to reach a higher voice. It does what your body would do if you try to speak at a high pitch and this is what it sounds like as well. Glottoplasty actually shortens the active vocal folds and thus makes a different voice. That is why often CTA creates "falsetto" voices...

[Allyda]

I thank you all, Anjaq, Jennygirl, and Nicolette for your recommendations and suggestions. Yes, I have tried voice therapy. I can't even get close without going into falsetto and sounding like the wicked witch in the Wizard of Oz. I can do a killer: "I'll get you my pretty, and your little dog too," lol!

So my choices are, Sound like the wicked witch, forget speaking altogether , learn sign and become mute, or give a US surgeon a try. I can't put into words how awful I feel after being out all day being treated like just a normal woman, then coming home and having to answer the phone and getting Sirred. I even corrected a guy just yesterday 4 times and he still said "goodbye sir". I wanted to crawl into a hole and die. I actually dread hearing my phone ring.

Out in public people seem to look past my voice because I never get sirred. I haven't been sirred out in public in over 4 years. And it has to be my presentation because I sure don't look anywhere near as good as most girls on here. Not in the least.

In any case, I see my Endo again on the 3rd of July, Thursday next week, and I'm hoping he can recommend somebody. I know I can have my SRS done at Shans and they have a somewhat good reputation here in Florida. But no one up there does the voice surgery. I haven't tried Tampa/St. Pete area yet nor Orlando. Each is a two hour drive but it will be worth it. If I strike out there I'll have to try down south. There's a large LGBT community in Lake Worth which is close to Miami.

Though my insurance is Federal I'm not sure if they would cover an out of state surgery unless it's an emergency. Maybe with my Endo's help they may cover Dr Thomas but Idk. I can only try and hope for the best.

Again I thank you for your suggestions and recommendations.

The Wicked Witch of the West, Ally

[Jennygirl]

The procedure is relatively common and is called "anterior web formation" or something like that. Most experienced otolaryngologists should know how to do it... However in the U.S. they all use lasers to help fuse the vocal cords (Dr. Kim uses a microscopic scalpel). That is the only thing that creates a difference between methodology.

Dr. Kim does seem to have better results (maybe because he's not using lasers), but really that seems to be the only difference.

There is a place in new york that has a lot of info posted about their laser method and they boast decent results:
http://professionalvoice.org/feminization.aspx

[Allyda]

Thanks Jennygirl for the link.I'll  go have a look. I just hope I can get my insurance to pay for an out of state surgeon.

So how've you been? Doing OK I hope?

Ally

[Jennygirl]

Doing great, thanks! Took some time off of work and just enjoying the chill life at the moment- doing some stuff around the house and that's about it

[Allyda]

Glad to hear everything's going well for you. Me, I've had a few financial difficulties and myself and my SO of 4 and a half years broke up -for good this time. Sadly I found out she only loved me for what I can do for her and how much $$ I can give her. So 4 + years wasted down the drain. Oh well. I'll eventually get over it and move on.  It just takes time.

Ally