“Redskins”

[V M]

I am a bit conflicted on the subject, on one hand I have always held a deep admiration and respect for the Native American peoples, on the other hand I do not wish to insult anyone and realize that the the term has been used as a racial slur in an insulting and disrespectful way by various individuals

I have also had Native American friends who are very proud of their heritage and take great pride in full support the team, but I can understand how some folks could see it as insulting

It is not likely you will ever hear an announcement of a new team called the Los Angeles Darkies, China Town Chinks, Hawaiian Pineapples, Little Italy WOPs or the Business District Kikes

In other words, a slur is a slur and if a group of people are insulted then perhaps a change should be made

The fact that I and many others hold a great respect and admiration for Native Americans and the Washington Redskins football team is irrelevant and perhaps the name should be changed

Maybe they could settle on something political like the Bureaucrats or something

I don't know

Rant Rant Rant!!! 

[LordKAT]

I always thought team names were chosen because the name meant something good to them, an honor of attributes. I don't think it was ever meant to denigrate anyone or anything. The more people take offense at different terms, the harder it is to communicate due to being unable to use any name without causing offense.

[Sephirah]

I still don't understand how you US folk can name your sports teams after socks.

But then I can't really talk, one of my local football teams is named Sheffield Wednesday. Go figure.

Until I read this thread, I assumed Redskins was a reference to the colour of the shirts they wore.

Yes, I am an uncultured oaf, and avoid spectator sports like the plague.

[DriftingCrow]

I still don't understand how you US folk can name your sports teams after socks.

I've never understood that either. 

I always thought team names were chosen because the name meant something good to them, an honor of attributes. I don't think it was ever meant to denigrate anyone or anything. The more people take offense at different terms, the harder it is to communicate due to being unable to use any name without causing offense.

Names for teams are chosen because the team wanted to honor a certain group, but that doesn't mean that they don't have to take any responsibility when choosing to go about it. When using a name that's a derogatory term to the group being "honored" but seen as a proper term by the majority group (like the N word was), it's still bad despite the intentions of the team. Many Native Americans are fine having sports teams use Native symbols and names, but a name that truly honors like the team claims they want often comes about when the team actually does some research instead of continuing to perpetrate stereotypes, despite a harmless intent.

[Jessica Merriman]

My high school team name is the "Redskins". We are surrounded on all sides by the Kickapoo Nation, the Chickasaw Nation, the Choctaw Nation, Absentee Shawnee Nation and the Sac an Fox Nation. They have no problem with our school name as we treat it with dignity by our players actions and behaviors on the football field, baseball diamond and basketball courts. They consider us honorary warriors and kindred spirits and have never once suggested a name change. If we acted recklessly and dishonorably maybe it would be different. Tribal Officers even work security at our games without compensation. Maybe we are the exception to the rule or something, but attitude has a lot to do with it. Respect gets respect.

[LordKAT]

I've never understood that either. 
Ditto

Names for teams are chosen because the team wanted to honor a certain group, but that doesn't mean that they don't have to take any responsibility when choosing to go about it. When using a name that's a derogatory term to the group being "honored" but seen as a proper term by the majority group (like the N word was), it's still bad despite the intentions of the team. Many Native Americans are fine having sports teams use Native symbols and names, but a name that truly honors like the team claims they want often comes about when the team actually does some research instead of continuing to perpetrate stereotypes, despite a harmless intent.

I can see that point. Thanks for the explanation.

[V M]

I still don't understand how you US folk can name your sports teams after socks.

I did suggest a team to be called the Dirty Old Socks but no-one was buying into it for some reason, they didn't go for the Holy Toe Socks either

So particular that lot

[Shantel]

I still don't understand how you US folk can name your sports teams after socks.

But then I can't really talk, one of my local football teams is named Sheffield Wednesday. Go figure.

Until I read this thread, I assumed Redskins was a reference to the colour of the shirts they wore.

Yes, I am an uncultured oaf, and avoid spectator sports like the plague.

Initially there was nothing distinguishing about their uniform if even that had one, pants were knickers and so they all wore the same color of sox to distinguish one team from another.

[Shantel]

I am a bit conflicted on the subject, on one hand I have always held a deep admiration and respect for the Native American peoples, on the other hand I do not wish to insult anyone and realize that the the term has been used as a racial slur in an insulting and disrespectful way by various individuals

I have also had Native American friends who are very proud of their heritage and take great pride in full support the team, but I can understand how some folks could see it as insulting

It is not likely you will ever hear an announcement of a new team called the Los Angeles Darkies, China Town Chinks, Hawaiian Pineapples, Little Italy WOPs or the Business District Kikes

In other words, a slur is a slur and if a group of people are insulted then perhaps a change should be made

The fact that I and many others hold a great respect and admiration for Native Americans and the Washington Redskins football team is irrelevant and perhaps the name should be changed

Maybe they could settle on something political like the Bureaucrats or something

I don't know

Rant Rant Rant!!! 

Lol, pretty long post for you Victoria! For the most part it's always a relatively small vocal group that takes exception to something like this, oftentimes they are not even a member of the minority group who should supposedly feel insulted. We see it here on a smaller scale where several like minded people are conversing politely about a specific subject, then a few others with different views join in and willfully create dissension to get the thread locked.

[amZo]

It is not likely you will ever hear an announcement of a new team called the Los Angeles Darkies, China Town Chinks, Hawaiian Pineapples, Little Italy WOPs or the Business District Kikes

Although, I kind of like 'Hawaiian Pineapples'.

I'm a little upset no one has mentioned the terrible team name that denigrates my people. I think the Oakland 'Raiders' must change their name now!

[MadeleineG]

Raiders must be terribly offensive to roaches.

[Miss_Bungle1991]

Business District Kikes

That would make a great name for a noise band. I should do something like that. I'm not a bigot or anything like that, but it would be a interesting way to mock the whole Nazi Power Electronics subculture.

[amZo]

Raiders must be terribly offensive to roaches.

... and those being raided I suppose! 

[amZo]

That would make a great name for a noise band. I should do something like that. I'm not a bigot or anything like that, but it would be a interesting way to mock the whole Nazi Power Electronics subculture.

Oh you just let me and my panel decide that... 

[MadeleineG]

The name that always offended me is "Spartans." It's very common and people don't give it a second thought, but honestly, what a horrible group to honour. 

[Miss_Bungle1991]

Oh you just let me and my panel decide that... 

Yeah, but I love mocking some of the idiotic attitudes in the Noise scene. I love ruffling people's feathers from time to time and that entire scene is prime pickins' for such a thing.

[Joelene9]

The name that always offended me is "Spartans." It's very common and people don't give it a second thought, but honestly, what a horrible group to honour. 

There is a high school in my city that has Spartans as their mascot.  I wondered about that when my high school went from the South High Rebels to the Gargoyles.  There was a Dixie Stars and Bars flag in our auditorium above the stage in 1968 when I entered as a Sophomore.  They took that flag down a few months later.  Awareness and debate amongst students began around 1970 about the Confederate moniker.  The first suggestion was changing the mascot to the South High Penguins, which went over like a lead blimp.  Most of the high schools in my city was built in the 1920's or earlier with a Gothic theme. 
  My school has a gargoyle on top of the front faćade and the new name was changed to that after 30 years of debate.  My mom and her 6 siblings went to that school in the 1930's and 40's and even the Stars and Bars was flown below the US flag (48 stars in the field at that time) on certain days with nobody batting an eyelash about it during that time.  It is in my mom's yearbook.  The stone inlay "Johnny Reb" moniker is still on the floor in the entrance as it was a gift from one of the 1960 classes. 
  The African-American classmates of mine were not bothered by being called "Johnny Reb".  They participated in the the school functions.  We had a day in our school pride week called "Slave for a Day" function that had anyone giving to a sponsored charity the student council choose can have a member of the glee club carry your books from class to class for a day.  The African-American students often choose a white glee club member.  I thought about it at the time as "Turnabout is fair play".  This was all in good humor. 
  The Spartans were a worse lot then the US Confederacy. 

  Joelene

 

[Anatta]

Kia Ora,

When it comes to names of sports teams......................

In NZ we have the world famous "All Blacks" national rugby team and the "All Whites" national soccer team...

From what I gather in the All Blacks the vast majority are of Polynesian abstraction, ie, Maori and other Pacific Islanders and the All Whites are mostly Pakeha (white)

But it's not all "black & white" we also have greyish ie, the national netball team's called the "Silver Ferns" 

Metta Zenda

[MadeleineG]

Kia Ora,

When it comes to names of sports teams......................

In NZ we have the world famous "All Blacks" national rugby team and the "All Whites" national soccer team...

From what I gather in the All Blacks the vast majority are of Polynesian abstraction, ie, Maori and other Pacific Islanders and the All Whites are mostly Pakeha (white)

But it's not all "black & white" we also have greyish ie, the national netball team's called the "Silver Ferns" 

Metta Zenda

In NA, we have the Cincinnati Reds, the Cleveland Browns, and the St Louis Blues.

Presumably, St Louis has a prominent blue population. 

[Dee]

Browsing through this topic...

Does the shaming of non-ethnic activists bother anyone else here?  Seems counterintuitive that we should only stand up for causes that relate specifically to us.

As for the name-change debate, I think it really relates to the context of the name.  Blackhawks and Braves?  I don't have a problem with them; the names are pretty neutral, and logos have been modernized to prouder symbols.  Indians and Redskins?  Holy 1831, Batman.  Cleveland, at least hide the buckteeth better.  And an interesting note about the Redskins- their original owner, from their Boston days, was defiantly racist.

Anecdotally, my sister and I attend the Quincy High-North Quincy High Thanksgiving game every year with our dad.  The Presidents vs. the Red Raiders.  It's shameful that a region tied so close to American history would perpetuate the false assumption that Native Americans were the invaders.

Whatever...end rant.  I've gotta get up early to grab a vanilla chai with my Wampanoag sister