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Bigender question: hormones and gender stability

Started by me, February 11, 2014, 02:38:21 PM

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me

For all those bigender folk out there, I have a question.  Have you been prescribed HRT, and if so (and this is the only thing I really want to know, so let's try to keep this hormone thread from being deleted) did the hormones help with your swings from one gender identity to the other?  Did you find that you stabilized on one particular identity?

(This is coming from someone - me - who really doesn't like the instability of the constant gender identity swings, and I wish that I was either one or the other rather than bouncing between the two.)

Thanks in advance!
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Jamie D

I initially identified as "bigender," because I recognized that I did not, and could not, identify as someone congruant with my birth sex (MAAB).

As I have spent time here, and read the accounts of many of our members, I have shifted that thinking a little bit.  I am less focused on the gender binary.  I see myself more in the "gender fluid" sense, but even then, I am not sure I like the labels.

My fluidity was highly situational.  I have written here before, that I can not quit figure out if my "maleness" is innate or socialization.  I think a little bit of both.

I am pretty sure my femininity is innate.  I can't think of any reason why it would not be so.  Estradiol and anti-androgens were, for me, like walking out of a thick fog.  I can't say they "fixed" my gender fluidity, but they helped me accept myself better.

I am not worried I have male-type responses to some situations.  Indeed, those may be beneficial, just as my core femininity helps (and hurts) at times.

One person's posts to research on this exact subject is "Ativan."  Maybe they will chime in here.
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me

Thanks Jamie de la Rosa.  I'm kinda in the same shoes (although I'm rapidly realizing that everyone's shoes are different here).  MAAB, always been uncomfortable/awkward with it, always wanted to be female because that seemed like what was wrong with me.  But I'm finding that I seem to be, especially over the past couple of years, either male or "female" mentally - or at least male and "someone definitely not male but who really enjoys being somewhat female".

It's the inconsistency that's the issue.  Or maybe not even that; it's my discomfort with the inconsistency.  If I could find a way to embrace my gender no matter what it was, I'd be happy.  Or if I could find a way to stop the inconsistency in the first place, I'd be happy too.  Perhaps hormones might help.  Many have suggested that I give it a try as it seems to be a fairly effective way of taming the dysphoria.
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Jamie D

Oh gawd, do I get what you are saying.  There were times when I was like, "Just choose a gender, dammit!"  But it just doesn't work that way for me.

I'm not sure I view gender any longer in yin & yang terms.  I'm more like a Neapolitan milk shake!
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justpat

  Ok ladies just hand me an oar and I will help row the boat because I am in there with you.Fluctuations were a normal part of everyday life sometimes male sometimes female  very confusing to say the least.For a while when my t went sky high  1400  I leaned a little bit to male but was still female at heart.Started HRT on Christmas day 2013 since then I have started feeling a LOT better, more balanced I guess, not the fluctuations of the past.Now leaning definitely to female and love it but still have the male edge that's hard to change after pretending to be one for 63 years.Don't know where I will be in a year but I am positive where ever I am there will be a huge smile on my face.
I would say give the HRT a try and some  time, like a few months  and see what happens it definitely made my life a LOT better.  Pat
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Jill F

I initially thought I was probably an androgyne or bigender before HRT.  My brain wasn't getting any estrogen and my head seemed like it was at war with itself, going back and forth about whether transition was for me, and constant doubts happened about being one way or the other.   Part of me wanted to hang on to my assigned maleness due to convenience, not being potentially shat upon by the entire world and remaining "normal" in others' eyes, as I had always done, but a growing part really wanted to just be the me I always thought I truly was.

My therapist took one look at me, asked a few questions and said that I was most likely transgender with a feminized brain full of starving estrogen receptors.  That really surprised me, to say the least.  What surprised me more was that she told me that I needed to try out a low dose of estrogen for size, and if it didn't work or made things worse, I'd at least know what I wasn't and could move on by taking antidepressants.

Two hours after my first dose of estrogen, the sh*tstorm in my head turned into a mild breeze.  I was calm, happy and relaxed- something I hadn't felt since I was about 12 years old, when the T really took over. 

I began to present female as much as I wanted, but it turned out I was only ever presenting male when I thought I needed to meet someone else's expectations of me.  After a few weeks, more therapy and a couple of laser sessions, my therapist and I began to question my so-called androgyne/bigender status, I finally stopped caring about what others thought and decided to test the waters by going full-time.  I figured that if I was actually andro/bi, then at some point I'd WANT to present myself as male again by my own volition.  Almost a year later, that has never happened.  I ended up purging my GUY clothes in the end.

So, yes, estrogen was basically the magic bullet for me that changed my whole life for the better.
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me

All of that sounds awesome, and I have more than a mild suspicion that hormones will solve this problem.  Might open up a whole new can of worms, but that's all part of this unpredictable ride.

Follow-up question: the mental effects of the hormones seem to be calming, but are the physical effects also noticeable?  I'm not sure I'm ready for a feminine appearance, but I sure could go more androgynous and I sure could use the mental smoothing.
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justpat

  Hi me ,
My hair is down past my shoulders and everything is shaved and the girls are 36c's. All that was done over a period of a year and nobody really noticed anything except for the long hair and of course my calmer attitude. Just start wearing baggy long sleeve shirts  they will hide the bra and enjoy a calmer life.
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Eva Marie

I considered myself bigender for many years before coming to grips with who I really am. I had wild swings back and forth between boy mode and girl mode and I would do questionable stuff like shopping for girl stuff in boy mode and daring anyone to say anything about it  :laugh:

The wild gender swings are what made me seek out low dose HRT. I felt completely out of control at times, and I felt that girl mode was trying to take over (little did I know.....). Low dose HRT greatly calmed my waters for a few years before my situation progressed. When it progressed low dose just quit working for me and my dysphoria deepened.

A transitioning dose of HRT is what I take now, but that also means that I'm going over the waterfall. Such is life.
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me

Uh, it's going over the waterfall that I'm worried about right now.  It's as if going on any kind of low dose HRT would be like climbing the safety barrier by Niagara Falls and getting into a barrel - I think I know in advance where I'll end up.
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helen2010

Once you determine that low dose hrt works for you a good endo will encourage you to decide the dose and therefore the rate of physical change that works best for you.   I can and have turned it up and turned it back.   When my breasts developed too rapidly I had a breast reduction.  I am now moderate rather than low dose hrt and very comfortable with this.   I don't feel like I am heading for a waterfall as I know that I can swim to the side.  Pacing yourself can and does work.  However if hrt provides the relief you seek then you will want a larger dosage - just think it through, make a conscious choice and own the decision.  The journey is perhaps more important than knowing the ultimate destination so I would say try low dose hrt and work with your endo and with yourself
Safe travels
Aisla
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ativan

Quote from: Aisla on February 12, 2014, 02:00:29 PM
The journey is perhaps more important than knowing the ultimate destination so I would say try low dose hrt and work with your endo and with yourself
Safe travels
Aisla
It is indeed all about the journey. Your destination hasn't been determined.
It's always about getting around the next curve on your path and finding out more about yourself.

There is the regular low dose and then there is the very low dose HRT. Transitional HRT is a lot more than low dose. There is a standard low dose of sorts, it's going to depend on you and your Dr. But it is enough that you might feel some changes, loss of libido, maybe loss of erection or some of it, some swelling and tenderness around your nipples. It usually takes at least a few months before that becomes apparent. Stop the HRT and it will in most cases reverse itself completely or close enough that it won't really matter that much. The important part is to start with a low dose, even transitional doses start out small. Pretty much the same, low dose maybe being a little less. Again it depends on you and your Dr. Once you try it out, and usually it will be some Spiro, you should feel less of the noise or rage as some people call it. For me it was a quiet rage inside. Within a couple weeks, it was all but gone. But being the kind of person who believes you should always take the least amount of any med and it still producing the results you want, I backed mine down. But not before experimenting and boosting the levels up to transitional doses. I found out that did nothing for what I wanted, which was to quiet the noise, the dysphoria. So I backed down, backed down farther until the noise came back just a little and have been there ever since. Works for me. I can deal with a little noise. I did start a low dose E patch quite awhile back, and at first it had caused a little soreness, but that went away. All this is going to vary from one person to the next, so there isn't any kind of gospel in any of this, you just have to try it and pay attention. The E patch I can only describe as smooth. I have no other way to describe how it affects me, which is going to be different, like I said, from person to person. I have much less facial hair growth rate, and lost about half my body hair over, what, the last year or two? I don't keep track of it. I played around with not using the patch as much as I was supposed to, and I could tell a slight difference for those few days, but it wasn't until I stopped it for a few weeks that it became noticeable.
Like I said, it really does vary from person to person and there are those exceptions, always, but low dose will eventually cause some body changes, the rate varies. For some, it takes longer than I have been taking them, for others a little sooner, from what I read from people (not what some article claims) (even though this is an article of sorts?, never-mind). I backed that initial low dose down a notch and have some loss in ability to get an erection, but that was always a problem anyways, and Viagra seems to work really well for me, anyways. But at this dose, I feel good, the dysphoria is acceptable (Can you ever really get rid of it?) and I haven't at least been thrown in jail for problems with anger, but I can still piss off a fair share of people.
For me, all of this experimenting and paying attention over the last year or so has left me where I want to be.
The biggest point is that it varies from person to person, and just what you take will as well.
There is a kinda standard, and it's becoming more common, but I think that has the drawback of people just taking what the Dr orders and leaving it at that.
You can fine tune it pretty much, but it will take time and you will have enough time.
You should know well within a week or two if it right for you, and can go from there. Actually, most people say they knew within a few days, but I'd give it at least a couple weeks.
If you find that your perspective about your gender is changing, it shouldn't come as a shock. There are more than a handful of people who started out here on the androgyn boards and moved on to full transition. I can tell you that they are very happy about how that all went down for them.
And there are some who have moved the other way. You just aren't going to know until you try it.
Step over that edge. There isn't a drop off, just another way to see yourself and how you see the world around you.
Ativan
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helen2010

Ativan
I agree with your comments which are far more precise and less casual than mine.  I have found low,lower, then higher dose hrt to demand that you assess, feel and pick your way forward.  Balancing gender dysphoria with physical change,  social situation and target (if known) outcome is ideally a conscious assessment and act.  For me I find that it varies with my level of stress, social support, work and family situation.  I know that I could keep the dosage low but the tangible difference (in terms of sense of well being) from taking a slightly higher dose does play with my mind - almost like a forbidden or addictive substance tempting me and rewarding me when I take more.  But if I take responsibility, make conscious decisions it becomes my journey, I have authored it, I own it and that to me is a beautiful thing.
Aisla
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me

Awesome information in this thread - exactly what I was looking for.  Thanks for sharing, and it looks like I'll be pushing for hormones in the near future.
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TerriT

Quote from: me on February 12, 2014, 08:15:59 AM
Uh, it's going over the waterfall that I'm worried about right now.  It's as if going on any kind of low dose HRT would be like climbing the safety barrier by Niagara Falls and getting into a barrel - I think I know in advance where I'll end up.

Maybe you should be prepared for that possibility.
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Eva Marie


Quote from: TiffanyT on February 14, 2014, 02:49:27 AM
Maybe you should be prepared for that possibility.

Yep. A very wise bigender friend once told me that in his experience people generally experience one of two results when they get on a low dose of hormones. The first result is that they become happy and just continue to live their lives without transitioning. The second result is that hormones flip a switch and they transition. It was a warning that I got before popping the first little blue pill.

I thought that I had gotten the first result, but I actually got the second result. My life is immeasurably better now, so I'm happy with what happened.
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Virginia

(Wise bigender friend chiming in :)
Quote from: me on February 11, 2014, 02:38:21 PM
For all those bigender folk out there, I have a question.  Have you been prescribed HRT
Yes. I have been on a full transition level estrogen HRT regimen for just over 4 years. (Note: I am a bigender trauma based DID System)

Quote from: me on February 11, 2014, 02:38:21 PMdid the hormones help with your swings from one gender identity to the other?
No; my medication relieved my female alter's horrible gender dysphoria. FWIW, she was accepted as a women preHRT and hormones have had no affect anyone's perception of me as male. I go without a shirt in public in the summer; she wears a bikini. Hormones have had very little physical effect.

Quote from: me on February 11, 2014, 02:38:21 PMDid you find that you stabilized on one particular identity?
No. The male and female narcissistic alters of my System live two separate lives, splitting my week 5 and 2 days, respectively.
~VA (pronounced Vee- Aye, the abbreviation for the State of Virginia where I live)
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Eva Marie

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