cis fem confused about mtf issues

[stephaniec]

I also think that given the fact that there are possibly maybe 800,000 transgenders both mtf and ftm in the US and I believe the population of the US is well over 300000000 that to encounter this frequency  of trouble on a day to day occurrence I would far more worry being hit by a stray asteroid.

[jussmoi4nao]

I think people should cool it with saying she's lying. Victims of sexual assault and harrassment are often told their experiences are lies, which causes feelings of shame, frustration, and invalidation. I'm a little shocked some of you think its cool to do that because the people who harrassed her identified as trans.

I think the OP was brave to not only come forward with this but also seek to understand the trans perspective...and a lot of you aren't doing the community any justice by accusing her of lying. I'm sorry but, not cool.

I'm going to stop reading this thread cuz it's starting to piss me off..

[carrie359]

OMG so sad.. sorry that has happened to you but I assure you ...most are wonderful caring people. Many are professionals.. Dr.'s Lawyers, Pilots.. and I am part of that group.. Others are just humans trying to make their way on this wonderful planet we all live on.  I never took advantage of a woman as a man and as a transitioning M2F certainly harmless.
Carrie

[Bijou]

I'm with jussmoi4nao...I'm a bit disappointed and disheartened at the replies to this thread calling her a liar. She came here asking an honest question in a non-offensive manner and is being victim blamed for it?
Is it so hard to believe that there are transgender people like those she described? I know personally, of quite a few that would act exactly the way the transgender folks in the OP did, but I have no association with them.

There are baddies in every community, we all need to accept that. And some of us here need to reel back the trigger happy generalizations of our pristine community, because it isn't like that at all.

Trans person space invaded by cis person *omg cis people are the worst!!!*
Cis person space invaded by trans person *i don't believe that for a sec!!!!*

Ridiculous and shameful on the part of some of you in this thread.

[Devlyn]

You believe what you want, and I'll believe what I want. Half a century on the planet has taught me when to put on the hip boots.

Hugs, Devlyn

[Bijou]

You believe what you want, and I'll believe what I want. Half a century on the planet has taught me when to put on the hip boots.

Hugs, Devlyn

Maybe some of us have been so lucky as to never have been the victim of an "unbelievable circumstance". Or to not have encountered someone of this manner. Or some of us have put on intentional blinders and painted a perfect picture of this community.

A half century of living should be enough for anyone to know this stuff happens.

[Ltl89]

Hey all,

Let's not turn against one another.  There are different sorts in ever community and things happen, that doesn't mean we should take it personal or get hurt by the op's story or the reactions to it..  I'm sorry if any of my prior comments hurt or offended anyone, I just have noticed there are some fetishists and sexually motivated members in the trans community and it can make me uncomfortable at times.  That doesn't make anything wrong with them for being that way as long as they are actingnappropriately.  At the same time, I do hate when people lump me as a transexual into that category as it offends me, especially when i think it's a minority of the transexual community that are like that, though I try to respect faab people by understanding and trying to respect their safety concerns.  I would just hope people get to see there are non fetishistic transexuals and don't lump us all into a category we don't fit in.  Again, no disrespect intended to anyone who does fit into that group. I really don't want to hurt anyone.

I think people should cool it with saying she's lying. Victims of sexual assault and harrassment are often told their experiences are lies, which causes feelings of shame, frustration, and invalidation. I'm a little shocked some of you think its cool to do that because the people who harrassed her identified as trans.

I think the OP was brave to not only come forward with this but also seek to understand the trans perspective...and a lot of you aren't doing the community any justice by accusing her of lying. I'm sorry but, not cool.

I'm going to stop reading this thread cuz it's starting to piss me off..

I agree though I think most of us here acknowledge these things happen and aren't accusing anyone of lying.  I've seen enough diversity in the community to believe these things happen. Sexual harassment in any form is never cool no matter where it comes from.

[Devlyn]

Maybe some of us have been so lucky as to never have been the victim of an "unbelievable circumstance". Or to not have encountered someone of this manner. Or some of us have put on intentional blinders and painted a perfect picture of this community.

A half century of living should be enough for anyone to know this stuff happens.

I know full well about "unbelievale circumstance"

I'll never forget the day I was bitten by a snake, eaten by a bear, and then the bear was struck by lightning. /snark

[Bijou]

I know full well about "unbelievale circumstance"

I'll never forget the day I was bitten by a snake, eaten by a bear, and then the bear was struck by lightning. /snark

But you don't seem to get the concept of refuting someone's claims or questions regarding feeling violated against by one of your own community, for the sole fact that they're in your community? As a white person, do you also not believe racism exists? Because they're the exact same concepts and to comprehend one is to comprehend the other.

[Devlyn]

No, hon, I read a post that I don't believe. You read a post that you do believe. It's no deeper than that. Perhaps I should have held my tongue, but today I didn't.

Hugs, Devlyn

[Nero]

To quote Rebeus Hagrid: 'you get weirdos in every group'.

[Hikari]

To quote Rebeus Hagrid: 'you get weirdos in every group'.

Exactly, and just because some nasty people pleasure themselves in public on the subway, doesn't mean everyone who rides the subway is one of those creeps. (And related, the NY Subway nearly gave me PTSD, I will always be thankful for how clean and composed the DC Metro is in comparison). Though, I do know a few people who insist that everyone taking public transit are homeless weirdos, when the bulk of people are people who wear suits or business casual and work in offices. It is like they don't even notice that 99% of the riders are pretty "normal" if there even is such a thing.

[locame]

Hello again, OP here...

First, I want to thank all of the posters who have responded kindly. I knew when I came here this probably wasn't the general trans experience, but it's like.... the only thing I can compare it to is when you are out and about in public and men are commenting on your attributes over and over, and mentally you start to think (though not logically) that all men are creeps. That was the point I was at after yesterday's incident with regards to the trans community. While logically aware that it probably isn't true of the whole, my public encounters have all been negative.

For those responding in disbelief, it is your right. Thankfully, there were a lot more helpful responses and i do feel like I've come to a better understanding of the diversity of the trans community. Also helpful to note, that other than the one I'd met only online, the others were all over 40 men seemingly in the beginning of transition. I did not mean to offend with the word "passing". By it I only meant that the trans status was obvious do to the phenotypical male body stature and face shape.

And as for some of the out there things, I happen to live in a highly left wing leaning college community with lots of strange people, such as the guy who rides around in a speedo and a cape for example. It seems everyone here is out to shock and push an agenda of some sort. I chalk the recent events up to that type of community mindset.

Anyways, thank you to all with the helpful answers. And no worries, I know how message boards work, and thus not going to take offense to the naysayers.

[locame]

oh, and a clarification as i don't necessarily know the terms to a pre-op bottom mtf (thinking based on one reply that may mean something different than I thought). By that I meant someone who had breast augmentation but still had their male genitalia intact.

[jebee]

I also think that given the fact that there are possibly maybe 800,000 transgenders both mtf and ftm in the US and I believe the population of the US is well over 300000000 that to encounter this frequency  of trouble on a day to day occurrence I would far more worry being hit by a stray asteroid.

yea i some one may be talking ->-bleeped-<-, god im a transeaxul and i have only ever met one other transexual in my everyday life, apart from at pride and sparkle etc

[ana]

I also think that given the fact that there are possibly maybe 800,000 transgenders both mtf and ftm in the US and I believe the population of the US is well over 300000000 that to encounter this frequency  of trouble on a day to day occurrence I would far more worry being hit by a stray asteroid.

I am newly out to the trans* community and I am really saddened by what happened to this poor woman with those that are reputed to be part of our community. It saddens me for her having to experience this and for us to bare the responsibility for it because we are such a small minority family inside a minority community. Anything one of us does reflects poorly on the rest of us. I know we can dismiss these acts as a few fringe elements, but this woman experiences them not understanding our community, and rightly questions us for it. I don't blame her one bit. This is the point of reference she has been exposed to. I grew up not having anyone to latch onto as role models, I don't even want to mention how we were perceived, so when people like Janet Mock come along I am elated because now we have someone that represents us to the mainstream the way we truly are.

I mean, the act one bad apple diminishes us all. We win over cisgender people through everyday normal acts of kindness, love, and compassion, until we can be accepted in mainstream.   

[kira21 ♡♡♡]

Having re-read the OP's erm, OP, I see (and correct me if I am wrong):

- one mtf online who hit on her
   Honestly - this is not at all out of the ordinary. considering the immense diversity of people online and the lack of restraint that is generally shown, I would guess that this isn't shocking at all to anyone. Of the conversations I have seen online, that is very very tame lol. I am surprised that would shock anyone, especially as the OP then says "I know how message boards work, and thus not going to take offense'.

- one 'out' mtf who asked how her boobs look and another who said men don't know how to satisfy women.
    Now in my life I have met many, many people who are too forward. She was one..... and?  I am a little shocked that this would mean anything to you at all, especially for someone who lives "in a highly left wing leaning college community with lots of strange people".  If it had not been a trans person, you would have just thought, "well she was a bit forward" and then paid it no more thought. I am not accusing you of being a bigot, but I can definitely see how your move from "I saw a trans person who was forward" to "I feel violated" and "are all trans people like that" would put you in line for people calling you that.

The trans person you met will likely not have got to socialise with groups of girls as one of them growing up, may have had little idea of how to be 'one of the girls' and be taking their best guess. I am thinking sex in the city style. Just a guess. It doesn't really matter.

They were too forward, and? That's just life. If I met a trans person and they were rude, I wouldn't assume all the trans people in the world were rude. We are not (especially me - I am lovely!  )

[allisonsteph]

I would argue that EVERY population of people has its share of people who behave in a creepy, inappropriate manner. I'm wondering if the incidents that the OP is referring to are just more memorable to her because she encounters fewer people perceived to me MTF than she does people perceived to be Cis.

How many rude or inappropriate comments and behaviors do you run a cross in Cis people in a day? I'm willing to bet is is far more than what sticks in your mind, so common in fact that it no longer even registers a second thought.

[dalebert]

No, hon, I read a post that I don't believe. You read a post that you do believe. It's no deeper than that. Perhaps I should have held my tongue, but today I didn't.

Devlyn has inspired me. I'm just going to be completely honest. I mostly held my tongue though I'm sure some of my thoughts came across in whatever of my tone managed to be transmitted by plain text. You probably guessed from my post that I'm skeptical of OPs claims. I'm just being honest. It just sounds like every cartoonish stereotype of a trans woman that a conservative person has that they use to justify twisting around the notion of oppression, i.e. that trans people are somehow violating and oppressing "normal" people. Any one of those stories would seem believable to me, but OP has been struck by lightning four times? All of it certainly may have happened just as OP says. I can't help being skeptical. All I can do is bite my tongue and I've chosen to be honest.

[Anatta]

Hello again, OP here...

First, I want to thank all of the posters who have responded kindly. I knew when I came here this probably wasn't the general trans experience, but it's like.... the only thing I can compare it to is when you are out and about in public and men are commenting on your attributes over and over, and mentally you start to think (though not logically) that all men are creeps. That was the point I was at after yesterday's incident with regards to the trans community. While logically aware that it probably isn't true of the whole, my public encounters have all been negative.

For those responding in disbelief, it is your right. Thankfully, there were a lot more helpful responses and i do feel like I've come to a better understanding of the diversity of the trans community. Also helpful to note, that other than the one I'd met only online, the others were all over 40 men seemingly in the beginning of transition. I did not mean to offend with the word "passing". By it I only meant that the trans status was obvious do to the phenotypical male body stature and face shape.

And as for some of the out there things, I happen to live in a highly left wing leaning college community with lots of strange people, such as the guy who rides around in a speedo and a cape for example. It seems everyone here is out to shock and push an agenda of some sort. I chalk the recent events up to that type of community mindset.

Anyways, thank you to all with the helpful answers. And no worries, I know how message boards work, and thus not going to take offense to the naysayers.

Kia Ora L,

As you are finding out, many fit under the trans-umbrella(and some being not quite sure what category they come under)...

For example the following conditions in which people identify with are "Transsexual"   "Transgender" "Crossdresser" "Transvestite"  "Transvestic fetish" "Gender queer" the list goes on and on...And internationally with some terms being interchangeable, like transsexual and transgender or crossdresser and transvestite...

At times it can be a somewhat confused complicated mixture that (through no fault of their own) are found sheltering under this vast open umbrella...

Many who identified as transsexual or transgender, once fully transitioned (with or without genital surgery) have been known to drop the "trans" label altogether..."Different Strokes For Different Folks!"

Well at least you had the insight to find out more about this (more often than not) misunderstood diverse comm-unity...You deserve a rep for this brave move...



Metta Zenda