Passing in everyone's eyes but my own and other goodies. Anyone relate?

[sad panda]

I think it is really hard to see yourself honestly, in 2 years since changing my presentation i have never not passed as a girl to anyone anywhere and I still think i look like a boy prettty often...

I won't give my opinion on how you look cause at some point my dysmorphia got so bad i even think most cis girls look like men. :s

[Anatta]

I'll look more into it, but I'm really not well versed in meditation in general. 

Kia Ora L,

You don't have to be, in fact it's much better if one has no idea of how to go about it... This way one has no preconceived ideas which could interfere with and slow ones progress....In most cases it's better for the teacher to have  a clean, clear mental state to work with, however if one does already have some ideas of meditation, the teacher may need to work a little harder getting one on the right mental track...

Good luck....

Metta Anatta

[stephaniec]

please don't take this the wrong way. Have you thought of the possibility that this conflict your having has its root some where else in your history and has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not you pass. I mean what happens if you never achieve that final 1% . no matter how hard you try you always have that 1% doubt or fear. Do you just detransition because you can't wipe away that spot.

[Allyda]

In order to make an honest, informed opinion, you need to get rid of the guy clothes you wearing the photos. A button down shirt and tee under it screams GUY. Pluck your eyebrows. (There is no such thing as two perfect brows). Get some makeup. If you can't aford laser, pluck the hairs. Put on some skinnies, a pair of flats (Keds work), and wear a cute, form-fitting top or just a striped long sleev top ala jean Seaberg or Gennifer Goodwin. They both stole my stylre cause I read it in Lucky. That's the only way you will know if you truly pass. In some of the pics, escpeically the last one, you look femme, but in the others, I can't say cause you have no makeup on, a tiny stache and the requisite guy uniform.

I think if you present, and WORK it, you'll do great. But until you do that, you'll never really know. I don't think Ipass well in pictures but when I went to the doctors they kept asking when the last time I had vaginal sex was, guys whistle at me (well today they did but today I looked good. Kinda yucky but validating), and everyone says her (and I mean total strangers.).

Until you try, you'll never know. This may sound a little harsh, but the only way you'll truly know is by trying. I mean, you're going to have to eventually, right? Maybe I'm not the best person to take advice from since I just got back from my stupid ex's who is living with this 60 year old woman who acts like his mom. Eww. They're not like doing anything unless she somehow slipped into bed with us, but it still annoys me so forgive me if I seem harsh.

LTL, you already know my views on this so I'll not repeat them in yet another thread. I quoted Joanna because hers is some of the best advice you can get at this point. Yes, I myself pass all the time without trying yet I don't see myself as others do. In fact, 2 days ago I was in Wal-Mart wearing no makeup, was dressed in my sweats (they're girly sweats), had my hair in a pony, but made the mistake of going into the men's restroom. I had 3 guys correct me saying things like: "this is the mens room honey," "your in the wrong bathroom," and had the last one say: "are you a freak bitch or what?" (he was young). I froze for a moment I was so embarrassed. Then I couldn't get out of there fast enough. I was so startled I left the store without using the rest room, and had to stop on the way home at a convenience store I knew the restrooms were clean in. 5 years ago when I started living full time there were days I had my doubts, and I still have them thinking:'does everyone need glasses?' This just goes to show you LTL that your not alone with this problem. 5 years ago I threw out, or gave away all my male clothes (women's clothes always fit me better anyway due to my body shape). I shop only in the female isles. Even though the Wal-Mart deboccle was an honest mistake, it demonstrates that we ourselves do not see ourselves as others do. Again this is why I quoted Joanna's advice. I've seen your photos, and I think you should give her advice a try. I'll almost guarantee you'll be surprised.

[Ltl89]

Anyway Ive been thinking about something else too...

Its not that we pass 100% , I dont at least...
I have an androgynous mode that gets gendered male all time

So? 

Im sure that if my average mode would get gendered female instead of male then Id had no fears and doubts...
I just dont want to feel that im working on something...I mean a female without make up and female clothes is still a female...
without those im just a feminine guy...Im just seriously hoping that in the future this will change...

I'm glad I'm not the only one.  Don't get me wrong, I enjoy typical feminine or girly things, but a woman shouldn't be defined by her makeup or what she wears.  A girl is a girl no matter her appearance is, but cis girls almost always pass no matter how they present.  Even if girls are always pressured to look this or that way, they can get away with not adopting a traditional feminine presentation.  Sure they may be criticized and judged, but they will pass as a girl for the most part.  Sadly for us, sometimes makeup and things like that are needed for us to even be seen as women.  At the end of the day, I enjoy feminine things, so it won't be an issue for me to adopt a feminine presentation when I go full time, but I guess the fact that it's needed for me to pass is kind of sad.  Like I need to do something or present a certain way in order to be seen for who I really am.   I guess that's why I want my default up to par, so I look female at all times. It gives me the freedom to not only be myself but look and live as my gender no matter what. 

It sounds like you are making good and positive steps l2l.  You should feel encouraged.

Yeah, I'm really hard on myself.  I've made a lot of progress and sometimes I only focus on the things that I haven't accomplished rather than the stuff I have.  My therapist reminded me of this yesterday and it made me feel better.   It's just tough to still be in the transition phase.

I think it is really hard to see yourself honestly, in 2 years since changing my presentation i have never not passed as a girl to anyone anywhere and I still think i look like a boy prettty often...

I won't give my opinion on how you look cause at some point my dysmorphia got so bad i even think most cis girls look like men. :s

Yeah, I remember when you used to post in the past.  At the time I didn't understand why you felt the way you did about things, but now I feel like I can understand where you were coming from in some ways.   Sorry for not understanding in the past. 

LTL, you already know my views on this so I'll not repeat them in yet another thread. I quoted Joanna because hers is some of the best advice you can get at this point. Yes, I myself pass all the time without trying yet I don't see myself as others do. In fact, 2 days ago I was in Wal-Mart wearing no makeup, was dressed in my sweats (they're girly sweats), had my hair in a pony, but made the mistake of going into the men's restroom. I had 3 guys correct me saying things like: "this is the mens room honey," "your in the wrong bathroom," and had the last one say: "are you a freak bitch or what?" (he was young). I froze for a moment I was so embarrassed. Then I couldn't get out of there fast enough. I was so startled I left the store without using the rest room, and had to stop on the way home at a convenience store I knew the restrooms were clean in. 5 years ago when I started living full time there were days I had my doubts, and I still have them thinking:'does everyone need glasses?' This just goes to show you LTL that your not alone with this problem. 5 years ago I threw out, or gave away all my male clothes (women's clothes always fit me better anyway due to my body shape). I shop only in the female isles. Even though the Wal-Mart deboccle was an honest mistake, it demonstrates that we ourselves do not see ourselves as others do. Again this is why I quoted Joanna's advice. I've seen your photos, and I think you should give her advice a try. I'll almost guarantee you'll be surprised.

I talked to my therapist yesterday and she really pointed something important out to me.  She said as much as I want to get over my social fear prior to going out, there is no way to do that without exposure therapy.  So, I know that I need to go out as me and just learn from the experience.  I'm just trying to mentally and physically get there.  But it's coming soon and will go out sometime this month even if I wait until June for full time.  After all, I need to expose myself to it as it's the only way I'll ever overcome my fear.  I'm excited but terrified.  My therapist suggested on try effexor and klonpin to help with my anxiety.  It get's quite severe and she thinks that will help me be able to take these steps.  I don't want to be medicated, but I'm considering it for the short term. 

please don't take this the wrong way. Have you thought of the possibility that this conflict your having has its root some where else in your history and has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not you pass. I mean what happens if you never achieve that final 1% . no matter how hard you try you always have that 1% doubt or fear. Do you just detransition because you can't wipe away that spot.

The 100 percent isn't realistic; it's more of an ideal I really want.  I realize that passing 100 percent is a bit of a fantasy.  Even if no one detects me while out, it can happen and people out there already know.  That's something I understand and will have to live with.  Honestly, I started my transition with the full intention of seeing everything through.  Detransitioning isn't an option for me.  So when my family was telling me that I was a lost cause and would never pass, I really took it to heart but realized there is more to passing.  It's about one day living as me and being happy.  So, there is no going back even if it's a challenge and really hard to get through.

I'd love to pass as much as I can because I have severe social anxiety.  I mean most people would never know and I've worked jobs that required me to be insanely social and interactive with the public, but when it comes down to me being myself and not fulfilling some kind of role for a project or job, I sort of shut down and get scared.  Like I used to get panic attacks quite frequently.  I'd rather not go into my past but there are many reasons I'm like that and currently am trying to get over these things and stop them from hurting my life.  Nonetheless,  I'm still afraid of living as me in different ways because I was constantly scared about how people may see me and what that may result in. It's a horrible way to live and in my adult years (19 on) I've been trying my hardest to have faith in myself and feel comfortable with being me and living life.  This has taken time and a lot of work, but I did achieve a lot of things and have reduced my social phobia and improved my self worth at times.  Still, I went through struggles and couldn't really embrace and stop denying my gender issues until I realized how necessary this was for my entire being and overall happiness. Deny as much as I want, there is no getting rid of this.  So at 23 I decided to start transitioning again (I originally wanted to do it at 19 bt chickened out) and I started the process at 24.   It's just a very hard battle for me and it's taking it's toll, but I will come out stronger in the end.   Passing or not, I will be me and will get through this, just in my own way and at my own pace.

In any case, passing makes it easier for someone like me because it's less anxiety provoking when you aren't detected.  You can go by as who you are without the need for fear of judgement.  I probably put way too much stock in what ifs and really make a bigger deal out of things when I shouldn't.  Likely it won't be anywhere near as bad as I think, but I need to be prepared for everything just in case.  I want everything to go as well as it can.  After all, passing makes it all easier, so who wouldn't want to pass as much as possible?  Still, I will be me even if I don't pass.  It's just going to be a little harder and take more inner strength and work to overcome my social fears. 

[stephaniec]

I think your therapist hit the nail on the head. just a suggestion why not just go to a therapy session as your self

[brianna1016]

Its frustrating isn't it. Seems like one day I'm wondering why I even bother trying to pass, the next day I'm looking and feeling totally female.

[Carrie Liz]

I talked to my therapist yesterday and she really pointed something important out to me.  She said as much as I want to get over my social fear prior to going out, there is no way to do that without exposure therapy.  So, I know that I need to go out as me and just learn from the experience.  I'm just trying to mentally and physically get there.  But it's coming soon and will go out sometime this month even if I wait until June for full time.  After all, I need to expose myself to it as it's the only way I'll ever overcome my fear.  I'm excited but terrified.  My therapist suggested on try effexor and klonpin to help with my anxiety.  It get's quite severe and she thinks that will help me be able to take these steps.  I don't want to be medicated, but I'm considering it for the short term.

I just want to say, LtL, I'm sure you've read my blog, and therefore probably already know how much social anxiety I also had when I was starting out. The first time I went out of the house in "girl mode," I was freaking TERRIFIED! The first time I went to my therapist's office in "girl mode" I was completely terrified too. I didn't really believe that I looked like a girl back then. Female-ish, maybe, but I was sure that I had a blinking neon sign above my head that said "TRANS!" and I was sure that nobody would ever accept me as female, and I felt like a huge hideous man-beast who was just trying to kid himself by going out in "girl mode" at all. I maybe had the confidence to go out once a month at the most. The rest of the time I ended up looking in the mirror, seeing flaws, and throwing off my wig in disgust because I felt like I was just kidding myself.

But then something happened that I wasn't expecting. I started being gendered female. On a few of those occasions that I went out, I head people starting to refer to me as "she," and "ma'am."

This still didn't help my confidence much, as I basically thought that surely they were just doing it to be nice to me, surely my transness was obvious to them, because it was really obvious to me. Still every single time I went out I was downright terrified, and I still rarely went out due to fear.

A few months later, I finally went out to a local trans support group in "girl mode." I was showered with compliments. I still didn't believe them. A couple of the girls my age there invited me out to lunch. I was scared as hell still. Every single stare, every single sideways glance made me feel like I was about 2 inches tall. They took me out shopping. They helped me refine my look. They forced me to go out in public more and more and more, even though there were numerous days where I NEVER would have left the house on my own because I was fighting with my appearance and too scared to go out because I felt so blatantly trans. But they kept me going out.

And over time, something amazing happened. After more and more and more trips out, I finally stopped being able to deny what other people were saying. It's easy to feel like a fake, feel like people are just being nice to you, when it's other trans people who are constantly telling you that you look great, and look completely female to them. It's much harder to deny it when you realize that you've been going out for two months and basically everyone has been gendering you female. The nervousness finally started easing up. I started actually being able to go out shopping in "girl mode" on my own. And even though I still didn't believe that I looked like a girl on a lot of nights, it reached the point where there was no denying the external evidence anymore, and I slowly started believing it myself.

And now, even though I'm still looking in the mirror and seeing a hideously-masculine he-she-it-whatever in the mirror when I'm just at home by myself, and I'd never believe I was passing, actual real-world evidence has proven me otherwise. So I can say to myself "it doesn't matter what I see. Everyone else just sees a girl."

The point of this story is, you will probably NEVER be happy with your own appearance. You will always be able to see flaws, and you will probably always feel like you look blatantly-clockable. I still feel that way. But the way that I got over it wasn't by sitting around and waiting. It was by actually going out, and having real-world evidence prove my self-critical mind wrong. The fear of the unknown is always MUCH worse than the actual reality.

[Allyda]

Very good advice Carrie. Being 49 going on 50 and having survived a horrible accident that's left scars on my face I went through (and still do alot) alot of what LTL is going through over the years. Then 5 years ago, though I had decided to after buying my current home, but also, I just had to begin living full time because I was no longer passing for a male no matter how down I'd dress. But I couldn't see it. Especially with these burn scars on the left side of my face. And now after a little over 2 months hrt there's no going back nor would I want to. Since I've been living as who I am I've been so much happier. Now I'm looking forward to SRS/GRS two years or so from now to make me whole. I no longer focus on the past, only the future.

[Ltl89]

It's funny that someone mentioned scars because this is why I'm struggling a lot.  In my case, they are emotional ones and they are not necessarily related to my transgender situation.  Sure I am transgender, but some of the wounds that plague me run much deeper and there is a reason that I fear people so deeply (in general) and require their approval/validation.  I wish I could open up and share more than I have (which is a lot), but some things are really private and personal.  And I realize everyone probably sees me as whiny pain or whatever, but that's not my intention. I'm just in so much pain and never got a chance to heal over things or really look into how much it's impacted me.  Seriously, I've been broken on the inside since I was a kid and fixing these wounds have been harder than I could have ever imagined.  Like in order to live, let alone transition, I need to relearn so many things and undo all the damage/trauma done in my past.

By the way, I would like to point out that I'm not giving up and I realize many people have it worse, so please don't think I'm being emo.  In fact, I was blessed in many ways in my life and am grateful.  And even the bad things have taught me valuable lessons and in a way has enabled me to see the good in everyone.  So, I'm not saying woe is me.  Instead, I'm trying to make sense of things and learn how to grow. For once, I'm trying to live for me and care about my own feelings.  No longer let my feelings be in the hands of other people and no longer fear living.  It's just insanely hard.  That is not how I grew up and that's not what I am used to.  And while focusing on the past isn't always great, I've been in denial of it and trying to forget it's impact on me rather than facing the reality of it.

[stephaniec]

It's funny that someone mentioned scars because this is why I'm struggling a lot.  In my case, they are emotional ones and they are not necessarily related to my transgender situation.  Sure I am transgender, but some of the wounds that plague me run much deeper and there is a reason that I fear people so deeply (in general) and require their approval/validation.  I wish I could open up and share more than I have (which is a lot), but some things are really private and personal.  And I realize everyone probably sees me as whiny pain or whatever, but that's not my intention. I'm just in so much pain and never got a chance to heal over things or really look into how much it's impacted me.  Seriously, I've been broken on the inside since I was a kid and fixing these wounds have been harder than I could have ever imagined.  Like in order to live, let alone transition, I need to relearn so many things and undo all the damage/trauma done in my past.

By the way, I would like to point out that I'm not giving up and I realize many people have it worse, so please don't think I'm being emo.  In fact, I was blessed in many ways in my life and am grateful.  And even the bad things have taught me valuable lessons and in a way has enabled me to see the good in everyone.  So, I'm not saying woe is me.  Instead, I'm trying to make sense of things and learn how to grow. For once, I'm trying to live for me and care about my own feelings.  No longer let my feelings be in the hands of other people and no longer fear living.  It's just insanely hard.  That is not how I grew up and that's not what I am used to.  And while focusing on the past isn't always great, I've been in denial of it and trying to forget it's impact on me rather than facing the reality of it.

don't worry, we know what you mean. My years from 4 on were brutal, especially the grade school and high school years. It's hard to repair the damage and its taken me a life time to try.

[Carrie Liz]

S'ok. That's the whole point of transition, is a healing process to discover the authentic selves that we've been forced to repress our entire lives. If you need to take some extra time to heal, by all means, do it!

[Ltl89]

Yeah, I don't mean delay my transition, just learning how to get to full time.  It's funny but my name learningtolive really is named after my situation.  in some ways, I feel like I never learned how to live.  Like if I had a totally healthy childhood and experienced what most people do, maybe life would have been different.  Maybe I would have been more able and confident.  Yet, my whole life I've felt broken.  I feel like so many people here are naturally stronger and more able to take on the world than a weakling like me.  Believe me, I envy these things and really want to have that sort of healthy self esteem in the future myself.  I guess for me transitioning is really just a part of me to learn how to live.   Not only can I look and dress the way I want, but I will no longer depend on other people's views or feelings.  I can be me and say to hell with their disapproval.   Sadly, right now I'm so used to leaving my life, feelings, body and soul in the hands of other people.  And that's why I'm miserable. Taking back the control is something that is revolutionary and very hard to do, but needed.  I'm excited and scared as well as confused on how to finally do it. 

[JordanBlue]

Sadly, right now I'm so used to leaving my life, feelings, body and soul in the hands of other people.  And that's why I'm miserable.

[Ltl89]

But that quote is inaccurate because I'm in the process of changing.  Sometimes change is a process and doesn't happen overnight.  I really wish I knew how to erase the damage from my past and could just be a well adjusted person with no problem, but it's not as simple as that.  A lot of work is required to overcome it.

[Ltl89]

By the way, I want to apologize to those who read my posts today for being such a debbie downer.  I've been a really depressed today and probably thinking too much for my own good.  I just wish things were different sometimes and feel a little resentful about things in the past which had an impact.  However, rather than blaming the past and using it for an excuse for everything, I do need to move forward and fix my life.  I've grown a lot and am capable of taking things on, including my transition.  I'm no longer the weak/fragile kid I once was and the past isn't the future.  I'm not going to let others control me nor am I going to shut down my own feelings.  Yes, I still have room for development, but I will make it.  While the stagnation is hard for me and sometimes depressing,  I'm handling things at a good pace that works for me.  I just have to remember that and keep in mind how far I've come and remember what I'm working for.  In the end, it's a process and work is needed, but I will make it in time and the past will be a memory. 

Sorry everyone for this last post, but I wanted to end this thread as well as my day on a more positive note rather than the tone ones of my other posts.  It's just a positive addition that is meant for myself more than anything (I use my threads as an interactive journal for  self motivational purposes at times, lol).

[Anatta]

But that quote is inaccurate because I'm in the process of changing.  Sometimes change is a process and doesn't happen overnight.  I really wish I knew how to erase the damage from my past and could just be a well adjusted person with no problem, but it's not as simple as that.  A lot of work is required to overcome it.

Kia Ora L,

CBT + Mindfulness ....It might not erase the past but it will provide the means/tools to enable you to cope better...

Don't give in to the ego !

I should point out L, when it comes to the above.... you've got nothing to lose but a lot to gain !

Metta Anatta

[Allyda]

By the way, I want to apologize to those who read my posts today for being such a debbie downer.  I've been a really depressed today and probably thinking too much for my own good.  I just wish things were different sometimes and feel a little resentful about things in the past which had an impact.  However, rather than blaming the past and using it for an excuse for everything, I do need to move forward and fix my life.  I've grown a lot and am capable of taking things on, including my transition.  I'm no longer the weak/fragile kid I once was and the past isn't the future.  I'm not going to let others control me nor am I going to shut down my own feelings.  Yes, I still have room for development, but I will make it.  While the stagnation is hard for me and sometimes depressing,  I'm handling things at a good pace that works for me.  I just have to remember that and keep in mind how far I've come and remember what I'm working for.  In the end, it's a process and work is needed, but I will make it in time and the past will be a memory. 

Sorry everyone for this last post, but I wanted to end this thread as well as my day on a more positive note rather than the tone ones of my other posts.  It's just a positive addition that is meant for myself more than anything (I use my threads as an interactive journal for  self motivational purposes at times, lol).

One last quote for ya LTL, one that happens to be my favorite, and words I live by. (Please excuse me not getting the words exactly right, but I'm sure you'll get the meaning): "Those Who Live In The Past, Are Condemned To Repeat it!"

[Ltl89]

Thanks everyone.  It's just the past few days my mind has been on certain things.  My mother opened up about certain things about my family and childhood and it left me feeling bad.  I've finally learned everything that went on the actual nature of the situation.  I just wish things were different sometimes.  Had my mom considered how things effected me rather than thinking about the impact it would have on others than maybe I would have had a chance.  It was a heavy decision she would have to make and it left it's marks.  In many ways, I don't blame her and understand exactly why she did what she did.  If I was a mother in her position, I may have made the same choice. In other ways, I'm angry, hurt and resentful that no one considered the way it effected me.  That no one even thought about my well being and how all these things could hurt my development when it was clear that it was.  I'm sorry to be vague, but I can't get specific and need to vent someday.   It's just if things were different, maybe I wouldn't be such a broken person.  Maybe I wouldn't be the person I am today.  I don't know.  All I know is that things left a mark on me early on and then were reinforced by other people/ situations.  I feel like I didn't get a chance to develop like most people. The cards were dealt for me and people just continuously hurt or took advantage of my nature.  It all put another brick in the wall that was created so early on.  And all I did was accept that was the way I am and life would be.  Eh....

In any case, I love my family.  They mean the world to me.  While we are clearly dysfunctional and it hurts, I will love them all till the day I die.  It's just I still live with some of this stuff.  It's not all in the past even if most of it is.  I'm still that frightened little kid for good reason and there is no changing the way other people act.  I've done everything I could.  And when for years all you know is a certain thing and how to act, it's hard to break patterns.  It doesn't help when you still need to find ways to cope with what's around you.  My childhood and it's impact may be over and done, but it's hard to change when you still live with some of it in some ways.  that's why it's so hard for me to change.  Still, I'm trying.  I really am.  I've worked hard and still make progress.  It's just my situation gets the best of me, but I'll make it. 

[JordanBlue]

Thanks everyone.  It's just the past few days my mind has been on certain things.  My mother opened up about certain things about my family and childhood and it left me feeling bad.  I've finally learned everything that went on the actual nature of the situation.  I just wish things were different sometimes.  Had my mom considered how things effected me rather than thinking about the impact it would have on others than maybe I would have had a chance.  It was a heavy decision she would have to make and it left it's marks.  In many ways, I don't blame her and understand exactly why she did what she did.  If I was a mother in her position, I may have made the same choice. In other ways, I'm angry, hurt and resentful that no one considered the way it effected me.  That no one even thought about my well being and how all these things could hurt my development when it was clear that it was.  I'm sorry to be vague, but I can't get specific and need to vent someday.   It's just if things were different, maybe I wouldn't be such a broken person.  Maybe I wouldn't be the person I am today.  I don't know.