{TRIGGERS} Being a woman...

[stephaniec]

It's an updated news item. Thats as helpful as I can be in guiding you there , sorry it does exist

[stephaniec]

just google " 75% of woman have disordered eating "

[Jessika Lin]

First off, that was a survey for a magazine, which is no where near being a proper peer-reviewed study. Secondly, the only reference given is circular, it references itself. Absolutely zero credibility.

[stephaniec]

First off, that was a survey for a magazine, which is no where near being a proper peer-reviewed study. Secondly, the only reference given is circular, it references itself. Absolutely zero credibility.

the web site is run by a dr. so maybe  you can take the issue up with them

[Tori]

FA,

There is no reason to harp on yourself, when we can harp on you ourselves. :p

Look, the picture you have painted is bleak and it does not mesh with my paradigm of being a woman, not entirely. That hardly invalidates YOUR experience.

Your expression here is so unmistakably male. No wonder your experience as a female, and pretty to boot, was torture. I have never seen a picture of you before or after transition and I do not need to. You have always been male in my mind's eye and in yours too, it seems.

Women wear makeup to cover their flaws and clothing that accentuates the positive and eliminates the negative. I confess that both bothers and entertains me. I enjoy it to a point. There is no doubt in my mind that it takes 17 million times longer to go ANYWHERE as a woman.

Like many women, I have body issues and weight issues, but they stem from being MTF, it is my visible masculinity that sets me off. I actually enjoy looking at myself now, even without makeup, as I notice the femininity emerging faster and stronger than I ever imagined.

Shaving my body sucks. I do it for me. My wire thick, male body hair is a dysphoric trigger.

You make a thread like this, some feathers will ruffle and some panties will wad. We can still be supportive of you and help you with your issues. Just do not be surprised if we attempt to validate our own experiences in the process. We too are vulnerable to bouts of dysphoria if we keep things bottled up.

Now let go of your guilt. We are big girls in here. 

[sad panda]

One little thing I kiiiinda wanted to point out is that a trigger warning might be helpful for this thread.

[Nero]

Okay, let's please stop worrying about the link please. It doesn't matter.

FA, there are so many factors that go into our view of life.  Things we have no control over.

Sometimes I have the habit of "burying my head in the sand", it hurts too much to think about my past, so I try to avoid it.  Guess what, that doesn't work.

Your facing your demons, I'm proud of you for that.

Thanks hon. I'm grateful for the support. It means a lot.
It seems like I'm always doing this - trying to find out why I am the way I am. One thing that just keeps coming up this past year or so that I always denied was all this woman stuff. As trans people, it's only natural to want to think we're not affected by growing up the opposite gender. I feel like I'm constantly being chased by this ghost of a woman. I thought transition would fix it all. I mean, it fixed the problem right? Well, the identity mismatch, yes. But I'm still not fixed somehow. I still don't know how to live. I still think everyone is staring and caring mostly about my appearance. That I think is part of female experience - everyone does look at women more.

Part of it is a realization looking back, being used to being valued for my appearance so much that I didn't even realize it. Wondering if anyone - lovers, friends, anyone ever liked me for me. They said they did. But would they have ever cared or thought I was interesting if I hadn't been pretty? If I was a guy back then? When I started to realize this - I'm not sure how to describe it. It felt like a huge slap in the face. I suppose all trans people go through some version of this - difficult when we've been seen and loved for something we are not. But mine definitely seems to have a gendered component. It was like all my illusions were gone and I felt a huge sense of loss. I was afraid that it was all a lie. My life. Being loved for being female. There's something that just feels so awful about that.

I was so used to never being allowed by anyone anywhere to forget my body. Always being told about my face and tits. Always. Always very conspicuous and on display.  Now this didn't hurt at the time. I was pretty numb, and like I said none of this ever bothered me before transition.

But even well after transition, I still am having problems. I can tell people are seeing me so differently. And at first it was so disconcerting but also really great. And I felt more human than ever. But it was also really raw and painful. Maybe it's just me. I think I'm probably too sensitive and easily overwhelmed by stimuli. I still feel like I'm not fit to be seen. And I felt this as a so called 'beautiful girl' too. I still can't even get up the courage to post my picture on my school website. Even though everyone else has and it's required. I can't take a video of myself like the other students. And I want to so much! But I can't. I wouldn't have been able to as a girl either.

I remember when my mom got me on at this modeling place (she was hoping to feminize me a bit) and me and all the other girls and I did this trial run for a commercial. I couldn't look as they played us back and asked another girl to tell me when I was on. There was this voice on there talking, and she said 'You're on now! It's you.' I looked up and saw and heard this, this monster I didn't recognize. And I never came back. I was literally terrified of my own shadow. I couldn't bear to look at myself. I'm still terrified of my own pictures, my own face. Ironically though, I now stare at myself naked in the mirror. Probably looking awful to most eyes, yet still feeling awesome!  I still have so many issues viewing my face though.

This is pretty much how I feel all the time, not the song but like a monster in a castle:



I felt like that as a girl too. I could never bear my own reflection and everyone always commenting on it, good and bad. Eventually I became a heroin addict and under the darker sky, warmth, and safety of it, even a monster could walk around. Whenever I would get clean, I would become a hermit again, rotting alone not seeing another human being for weeks, months until my mother would drop by and clean. The phone off the hook, the door never answered. Melodramatic? Maybe. But true. I don't know how to live. Maybe I never did. I should probably be committed, but I could never bear anyone poking around up there in my mind. I know where everything is up there and what's in all the drawers. All the ingredients, the hang-ups, why I am the way I am - but I still can't fix it. I can never fix it. I spend my life trying, desperately trying to rearrange and fix things up there.

(Oh god, why do I even talk about this! I'm supposed to be the admin here. You shouldn't be hearing all this)

[Nero]

One little thing I kiiiinda wanted to point out is that a trigger warning might be helpful for this thread.

Sorry hon, I'll try but sometimes it doesn't work on new replies.

[sad panda]

Sorry hon, I'll try but sometimes it doesn't work on new replies.

No you're fine I just was thinking, it might help people understand that they ARE being triggered and help the tone of some replies.

Your last post made a lot of sense to me in a lot of ways even if it's not the exact manifestation of my issues. Do you think it's all about gender? not that that wouldn't be a big component, but I know that sometimes I'll just be looking for something, anything to blame because the hardest part about having these horrible problems can be not even being able to explain why.

Sometimes it makes being trans just feel pretty messed up to me. I felt like it throws everything into this chaos that, no matter how bad it was before, was just on a new level and I haven't been able to sort out even the most basic sense of my life since.

Not trying to be negative though, just ended up feeling mixed (but completely personal to me) things after reading your last post, hah. :c

[Nero]

Sorry hon, I'll try but sometimes it doesn't work on new replies.

No you're fine I just was thinking, it might help people understand that they ARE being triggered and help the tone of some replies.

Your last post made a lot of sense to me in a lot of ways even if it's not the exact manifestation of my issues. Do you think it's all about gender? not that that wouldn't be a big component, but I know that sometimes I'll just be looking for something, anything to blame because the hardest part about having these horrible problems can be not even being able to explain why.

Sometimes it makes being trans just feel pretty messed up to me. I felt like it throws everything into this chaos that, no matter how bad it was before, was just on a new level and I haven't been able to sort out even the most basic sense of my life since.

Not trying to be negative though, just ended up feeling mixed (but completely personal to me) things after reading your last post, hah. :c

Well, I think a lot of things went into it. Like I said in another thread, it's hard to to talk about gender stuff without acknowledging that women hold a marginalized status. Trans issues mesh with sexism issues. It's probably why trans women are demonized more. Because being female is still seen as having lesser status. I think if women were truly viewed as equal, trans women and effeminate men would not be so marginalized. Julia Serano put this way better than I ever could. Trans women are sensationalized and hypersexualized and I think this is an off shoot of how women in general are viewed. Being a woman trans or otherwise just seems like almost a synonym for sex. Cis men and trans men aren't reduced to sex. Sure, they are sometimes mildly sexualized in ads and we have the Chippendales, etc, but not the way women are.

I think a lot of the things I've talked about are probably offensive to women on a gut level, and human beings in general. And most men are not so heartless as to seriously view women as objects. I'm sure the idea is offensive to most men when spoken so plainly. But many men act this way without realizing it. It's expected and woven into our culture. So I get why the women were offended. No woman ever wants to hear stuff like that. But we do still live in a sexist world. And I hate to say this, but I really feel like women are not viewed as full human beings. At least not as fully as men are.  And I think it would be impossible for women or anyone growing up as a woman to not be affected by this. I mean, things are better for women now. But it's like race issues which are better than they were but - I don't think you can come into this world as part of a marginalized group and not be affected. Just like race, some clearly have it worse than others, but they're all affected by it.

[Jill F]

No you're fine I just was thinking, it might help people understand that they ARE being triggered and help the tone of some replies.

Your last post made a lot of sense to me in a lot of ways even if it's not the exact manifestation of my issues. Do you think it's all about gender? not that that wouldn't be a big component, but I know that sometimes I'll just be looking for something, anything to blame because the hardest part about having these horrible problems can be not even being able to explain why.

Sometimes it makes being trans just feel pretty messed up to me. I felt like it throws everything into this chaos that, no matter how bad it was before, was just on a new level and I haven't been able to sort out even the most basic sense of my life since.

Not trying to be negative though, just ended up feeling mixed (but completely personal to me) things after reading your last post, hah. :c



Well, I think a lot of things went into it. Like I said in another thread, it's hard to to talk about gender stuff without acknowledging that women hold a marginalized status. Trans issues mesh with sexism issues. It's probably why trans women are demonized more. Because being female is still seen as having lesser status. I think if women were truly viewed as equal, trans women and effeminate men would not be so marginalized. Julia Serano put this way better than I ever could. Trans women are sensationalized and hypersexualized and I think this is an off shoot of how women in general are viewed. Being a woman trans or otherwise just seems like almost a synonym for sex. Cis men and trans men aren't reduced to sex. Sure, they are sometimes mildly sexualized in ads and we have the Chippendales, etc, but not the way women are.

I think a lot of the things I've talked about are probably offensive to women on a gut level, and human beings in general. And most men are not so heartless as to seriously view women as objects. I'm sure the idea is offensive to most men when spoken so plainly. But many men act this way without realizing it. It's expected and woven into our culture. So I get why the women were offended. No woman ever wants to hear stuff like that. But we do still live in a sexist world. And I hate to say this, but I really feel like women are not viewed as full human beings. At least not as fully as men are.  And I think it would be impossible for women or anyone growing up as a woman to not be affected by this. I mean, things are better for women now. But it's like race issues which are better than they were but - I don't think you can come into this world as part of a marginalized group and not be affected. Just like race, some clearly have it worse than others, but they're all affected by it.

They certainly are by a certain segment of the population, but this is by no means universal.  Some of us have evolved, in fact, I'd like to think most of us in the US have by now (there are more women than men after all).   I do agree that some men are absolute pigs though, and it is truly sad how certain women will bow to them.  This antiquated view has nowhere to go but to the dustbins of history.  Sorry Rush, et. al.  Dinosaurs like you who propagate this nonsense are quickly becoming extinct. 

[mrs izzy]

I am sorry. When I first seen this tread  started by you I felt a huge kick in the stomach.

Now you added a triggers warning and added another kick in my heart.

I have and gave my own personal view and heart felt congratulations to another sister who finished her path to a woman and I get a week ban from the forum for standing my ground on how I see what makes a women. But I am judged.

I am at a loss and very upset.

Isabell

[Nero]

And then I'm afraid that I'm causing harm to the women here talking about it. I guess I hear what I think is a lot of offense in some of the replies which makes me feel bad and get defensive and keep going on about it hoping I can make someone understand.

Many feel passionate about the issues - just like you do - and sometimes things are not expressed well. It usually sorts itself out.

You know, maybe other women didn't have it the same. I don't know. Maybe it was my appearance and people's reactions to it which made me this way. Never being allowed to forget it. I think it contributed to my social anxiety.

I agree.

I know for a fact that other women did not have it the same because I have been surrounded by women all my life. I have always had a lot of female friends, female work colleagues and I always got on better with my female relatives. I have daughters of my own and their friends are often here. Out of that collection, they were aware of the effect of beauty but out of all of them only a handful were badly affected by it - 2 or 3.

Well, no doubt me being trans affected my perception of things. You know your friends and your daughters, and I don't. But if you met me before transition, you'd probably think I wasn't affected at all. I mean I was tough and tomboyish and confident (on the outside anyway). What I'm talking about is something riding below the surface. Background noise. Not something most people actively think about because it's so normal. I mean, you're seeing me being a heaping mess here, but you would never see me like this elsewhere.

When I worked at a bar, I had a lot of drunken women crying to me about this - about how jealous they were of me, my tits, etc, how inadequate they felt because they thought their tits were too small, or they weren't pretty enough (and there is a commonality - these were usually really good looking girls). How afraid they were because their boyfriend liked big tits and he saw me etc. I'm serious. I know I'm not the only one and that a lot of cis women feel like ->-bleeped-<- about this. I know my cousin has suffered about this beauty thing. My mother has. I'm not trying to contradict you or your friends and families' experiences, just saying I know it's extremely common. And these women didn't get that way on their own. They grew up in a society where women's looks are way too important. And while individuals may be appalled at the idea and not feel that way about the women in their lives, the world's message (and usually their peer's message) is that women must be perfect flesh. Forever. Perfection in general is emphasized for women. For instance, I'm a total fat slob now and still get respect. Nobody cares or says anything. I can only imagine if I were a fat woman... if I gained 5 lbs as a woman, I was demonized.

If you need to keep on about this topic then do so. You know that covering it up will solve nothing except to make it worse.

Thanks hon. It feels like poison stuck inside.

[Nero]

I am sorry. When I first seen this tread  started by you I felt a huge kick in the stomach.

Now you added a triggers warning and added another kick in my heart.

I have and gave my own personal view and heart felt congratulations to another sister who finished her path to a woman and I get a week ban from the forum for standing my ground on how I see what makes a women. But I am judged.

I am at a loss and very upset.

Isabell

I'm sorry for upsetting you. Because of the sensitive nature of this thread, I'm not going to take this as a protest. But if you want to talk about the ban, you may talk to me in private.

Aside from that, can you talk to me and tell me why you were upset when you first saw the thread? I only started ranting several pages in I think. 

And why the trigger warning was upsetting?

[Adam (birkin)]

Trying to remember what it was like being seen as a fat girl...I sort of forget...lol...I know on a few occasions I did have people comment on my appearance. A number of times while I was working someone would say something like "what are you doing for your acne? I know this great product..."

The worst, for me, was one time, an old man came in to the store with some makeup, held it out, and said "Use this." I said "I don't use makeup." He goes "Well it would definitely make that *gestures at my face* better." I mean wtf, you creepy old pervert, do you carry makeup in your pocket just to give it to people with bad acne? Lol. Part of me wondered if he saw me before and kept it with him just to make a statement.

He was bad with lots of others though. He went up to one girl who had a lot of piercings and said "just so you know, I'd never, ever have sex with you because of those piercings." She actually said "thank God old man, because you're disgusting."

[Nero]

Trying to remember what it was like being seen as a fat girl...I sort of forget...lol...I know on a few occasions I did have people comment on my appearance. A number of times while I was working someone would say something like "what are you doing for your acne? I know this great product..."

The worst, for me, was one time, an old man came in to the store with some makeup, held it out, and said "Use this." I said "I don't use makeup." He goes "Well it would definitely make that *gestures at my face* better." I mean wtf, you creepy old pervert, do you carry makeup in your pocket just to give it to people with bad acne? Lol. Part of me wondered if he saw me before and kept it with him just to make a statement.

He was bad with lots of others though. He went up to one girl who had a lot of piercings and said "just so you know, I'd never, ever have sex with you because of those piercings." She actually said "thank God old man, because you're disgusting."

Oh god what a douche!

[Adam (birkin)]

Oh god what a douche!

Come to think of it, he might have had some very serious mental problems. =/ But it wasn't the first time I had people on me over my acne. I'll never know if that was really about gender or not though, because my acne has improved on T.

[Beverly]

Well, no doubt me being trans affected my perception of things. You know your friends and your daughters, and I don't. But if you met me before transition, you'd probably think I wasn't affected at all. I mean I was tough and tomboyish and confident (on the outside anyway). What I'm talking about is something riding below the surface. Background noise. Not something most people actively think about because it's so normal. I mean, you're seeing me being a heaping mess here, but you would never see me like this elsewhere.

Hey - I am trans too. I have been a "heaping mess" as well. We all have issues so you are not unique in  that.

I know I'm not the only one and that a lot of cis women feel like ->-bleeped-<- about this. I know my cousin has suffered about this beauty thing. My mother has. I'm not trying to contradict you or your friends and families' experiences, just saying I know it's extremely common. And these women didn't get that way on their own. They grew up in a society where women's looks are way too important.

It has occurred to me that one big difference may be cultural. You grew up in the US and I did not. The UK is a different culture and we have long thought of Americans as being more self-conscious about their appearance. Also the UK appears to be more tolerant in many ways. Some of the things that people in the US experience, things they post about in these forums, would be illegal here and the ill-treatment they receive would be hate-crimes here. So it could be that the "image pressure" was more intense for American women than it ever was for British women. Just another 2p worth to consider.

Thanks hon. It feels like poison stuck inside.

Yes... I know how that feels.

Always remember that you are not responsible for the opinions held by others and if you did make mistakes when younger, well we all did that too. Most of us learn from our mistakes and stop making them.

Give yourself a break. Let the past go otherwise you will torture yourself. The past is the past. Live in the present and gift yourself a better future.

[Nero]

Well, no doubt me being trans affected my perception of things. You know your friends and your daughters, and I don't. But if you met me before transition, you'd probably think I wasn't affected at all. I mean I was tough and tomboyish and confident (on the outside anyway). What I'm talking about is something riding below the surface. Background noise. Not something most people actively think about because it's so normal. I mean, you're seeing me being a heaping mess here, but you would never see me like this elsewhere.

Hey - I am trans too. I have been a "heaping mess" as well. We all have issues so you are not unique in  that.

Really? You have too?

I know I'm not the only one and that a lot of cis women feel like ->-bleeped-<- about this. I know my cousin has suffered about this beauty thing. My mother has. I'm not trying to contradict you or your friends and families' experiences, just saying I know it's extremely common. And these women didn't get that way on their own. They grew up in a society where women's looks are way too important.

It has occurred to me that one big difference may be cultural. You grew up in the US and I did not. The UK is a different culture and we have long thought of Americans as being more self-conscious about their appearance. Also the UK appears to be more tolerant in many ways. Some of the things that people in the US experience, things they post about in these forums, would be illegal here and the ill-treatment they receive would be hate-crimes here. So it could be that the "image pressure" was more intense for American women than it ever was for British women. Just another 2p worth to consider.

That's probably true. We're seen as this forward, leading nation. But in some ways, it really seems rather primitive here. I mean, people's basic rights like marriage are still up in the air, and I think we even still execute people by electric chair in some places.

Thanks hon. It feels like poison stuck inside.

{quote]Yes... I know how that feels.

Always remember that you are not responsible for the opinions held by others and if you did make mistakes when younger, well we all did that too. Most of us learn from our mistakes and stop making them.

Give yourself a break. Let the past go otherwise you will torture yourself. The past is the past. Live in the present and gift yourself a better future.
[/quote]

Thanks hon. I wish knew how.

[Adam (birkin)]

It just occurred to me, as I've been thinking about this thread for a while...I was talking to someone who is a survivor of domestic abuse a while back. She told me "It's OK to be angry over how you are treated and how you are made to feel. It's a good sign that things need to change. But what is most important is that you channel that anger in the best direction that you can, rather than let it be directed inwards." So, in her case, she started working with women who had been abused. I'm not saying that's the same as what you're going through, but it's a thought that I have found has been useful for me when I am frustrated about something. Like how I was treated, how others made me feel.