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The woes of passing well

Started by gothique11, July 20, 2007, 02:14:55 PM

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Sophia

I get that strange feeling of being either jealous, aroused or jealous and aroused when I see other women. It never occurred to me while I was in denial that lesbians could get the combination (in some cases) of wishing they were a particular woman and wishing they could bed and/or romance a particular woman.

Like I really really wish I looked similar to Alyson Hannigan (Willow from Buffy the Vampire Slayer). She's my ideal physical form for myself. At the same time, she's wicked hot (and a redhead) and I really really wish she'd track me down and sweep me off my feet.

Its kind of a mind blowing experience when you actually notice it.

Quote from: Sara on August 28, 2007, 02:56:57 AM
God, I think I am A-Sexual.

I notice that a lot of ts folk had no sex drive or attraction before HRT and SRS (because of mental blocks and just self hate of the body and such) and were kind of functionally asexual then. So maybe you'll start getting attractions and the urges after most of your transition is over? Its possible.
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Rachael

Soph: i was that way, i was pretty asexual pre hrt and transition. i just didnt care, never had a girlfriend, didnt want one, heck, i had a lapdance once on a night out with the 'guys' and didnt even get an errection... >< (i was a freak) i did have minor same sex attractions at the time, which i tried to brush over as curiosity, ive always liked boys, only now i feel like im happy enough in myself to persue the buggers!

R :police:
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Sara

Hi Gina, well with not having any for 7 years and not even touching myself for going on 3 months now I think I qualify. I am just not interested mentally with all the hassels. I already have a partner who is having difficulty dealing with what is going on and even if she decided to leave me, I dont think I would even consider going out and finding someone else.

Sara.
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Sara

Hi Gina, I totally agree by the grounding statement, any more grounded and I will be dead. I'm 43 so by the time things settle down I will be ready for the nursing home.

Sara.
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Sophia

There's a good number of people that point to sexuality as a more of a spectrum then boxes.

That everyone except for a small minority has a little straight or gay in them, and bisexual is only really when the attraction frequencies start to get closer in size for all both types.

I do find it a little irritating that its based on your own gender/sex in relation to the target gender/sex (really more the sex for the APA's purposes) when it should be based only on the target gender/sex.

Like androphilic means you're into guys and gynephilic means you're into girls, and no stock put on your own gender/sex. But of course the angry Christian right wouldn't want anything that didn't make a clear cut group to hate.

And unfortunately the people that make being gay into a universe shaking and social group defining aspect would oppose making it something that wasn't a big deal anymore.
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Suzy

Quote from: debisl on August 27, 2007, 10:09:22 AM
Candi women stare just to see if you are looking better that they are. It is a comparison thing. We are always trying to look our best.
Deb

I've noticed this is true.  I often spend lunch time at ->-bleeped-<- U, otherwise known as the food court at the mall.  I watch what girls wear, how they walk, how they eat, how they interact with each other, how they sit, and how they check out each other.  At this stage, for me, it is a bit disconcerting because when I get checked over, I want to run to a mirror and check my makeup or hair.  I've never been pointed out (knock on wood) so I must be doing OK so far.  But I do admit to being jealous of girls who can show that little bit of cleavage that hints at something voluptuous below.  That, IMHO, is what tends to really draw stares from the guys.  I can't say I pass all that well all of the time.  Really, how am I to know?  I guess those on here who have been out with me could tell you.  I've never made the mistake of thinking I'm some kind of raving beauty.  I do know that there are some times I've passed well, and that's all I know for sure.  I do my best to dress well, and blend in with the girls around me.  I hope one day to lose the nervous edge.  It's much less than it used to be.  But I hope I don't get so comfortable that I get  careless.  That would be a possible disaster.

Kristi
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SarahFaceDoom

I'm pretty comfortable at this stage in my transition.  I don't reaaaallly know how well I pass or not.  I work in an office full of women, and nobody treats me weird, so that is all that really matters to me.  So long as people give me a chance to be a person and not a stereotype, then I think I'm good.

I don't get hit on by guys that often, but I'm usually with my friend who is very pretty, so my initial reaction when it happens is to think they were talking to her.  So I am fairly oblivious.  I have been hit on by some really nice girls though.  This beautiful woman told me I looked like Debbie Harry, and petted my hair--I was ready to melt in her hands, she was so warm and nice and amazing.  And then a photographer wanted me to model for her, but I never called her number back as I don't really like how I photograph.

But yeah.  Not a lot of guys I don't think.  Which is good, because like out on the street at night that scares me.  Especially when I'm walking by a group of guys who may be drunk.  Just because you never know.  Guys can be really stupid and dangerous when they are drunk and in groups.  To women in general.  And then I can only imagine what happens when drunken frat boy finds out he's been hitting on a transgender woman.  So yeah.  Those situations worry me.
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asiangurliee

I get jealous of pretty petite women, its like a competition, i hate it.
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Melissa

Quote from: Kristi on August 29, 2007, 11:38:16 PMI often spend lunch time at ->-bleeped-<- U, otherwise known as the food court at the mall.  I watch what girls wear, how they walk, how they eat, how they interact with each other, how they sit, and how they check out each other.
Hmmm, well interacting with women seems to be the best way to learn.  During just the past 2 months with being part of a group of women for my musical, I've learned SO much just through my interactions with the other women.  Even the locker room conversations have proven to be quite informative.

Quote from: SarahFaceDoom on August 30, 2007, 12:51:56 AMI don't get hit on by guys that often, but I'm usually with my friend who is very pretty, so my initial reaction when it happens is to think they were talking to her.  So I am fairly oblivious.
I had something similar happen last October.  I was at a party with a girl I met(who later ended up becoming my girlfriend) and I found her SO attractive and we were talking to this one guy who was really hot.  He ended up choosing to end up with me and I was SO surprised (I had been on HRT for almost 9 months at that point), since I didn't consider myself to be very attractive.  Things have changed since then and I now see myself as attractive and am not very surprised anymore (yet still very flattered) when a guy hits on me.

Quote from: SarahFaceDoom on August 30, 2007, 12:51:56 AMAnd then a photographer wanted me to model for her, but I never called her number back as I don't really like how I photograph.
One thing I've discovered about being a woman is that you don't need to be knowledgeable about most aspects of being female that you would think every girl happens to know including makeup.  Don't feel ashamed to say you don't know how to do something; it won't automatically get you gender questioned.  In fact, most other women are more than happy to teach/show you how to do things.  Oh, and that seems to be the way to gain popularity among other women, which is by sharing, helping others, and being nice to each other.

As to passing, I would again say I feel no woes whatsoever about it.  I could not learn all the ins and outs so efficiently otherwise and I certainly wouldn't enjoy my life as much, so it's something i definitely appreciate.
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Rachael

asiangurlee:tell me about it! at my uni, EVERY girl seems shorter than me, smaller, in every way, and i feel so effing ugly and manlike... not male, but like a big oafish ugly woman that people wouldnt look at... its depressing, and im not that big! :(
R :police:
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Maud

I know, I so want to be short and utterly boring like every other girl.
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Rachael

i dont think i could be a maud, my ego isnt big enough... ;)
R :police:
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Maud

No, it isn't.

Win.

Monumental amounts of win.
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gothique11

Wow, this little topic of mine is long! Although, not so much on topic now, but still long.
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Melissa

Well, here's one thing I discovered recently that might be considered a woe, although it's really more of an unexpected downside to a particular situation which was only possible by passing well. 

As most of you know, I'm in my musical in stealth.  The show started last week and there were quite a few women standing around in their underwear around me.  I thought it would be great to be in this situation, but I was a bit taken back by the dysphoria which it induced.  It put me into a depressive funk for the rest of the evening.  I thought it would be cool to be able to do that since thought I was attracted to women, but it basically brought home the harsh reality of the fact that I'm still pre-op.  Now I've learned I need to avoid looking at them for this reason.  If I hadn't been in that situation due to passing well, then I wouldn't have experienced that bit of dysphoria (which always catches me by surprise and puts me in a depression).
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Rachael

its the one thing that makes me unhappy, that thing, its all that stands between me and a normal life in my consious mind. i feel like an imposter with it, i CAN be caught out. and im a faker :(
R :police:
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Elizabeth

Quote from: Rachael on September 05, 2007, 03:33:07 AM
its the one thing that makes me unhappy, that thing, its all that stands between me and a normal life in my consious mind. i feel like an imposter with it, i CAN be caught out. and im a faker :(
R :police:

You are not an impostor or a faker. You are a woman. To me you are as much woman as any woman I have ever met. A penis will not make you a man and it does not make you an impostor. I am sorry you have those feelings from time to time. I guess we all do, at times.

Love always,
Elizabeth
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Rachael

just feels like it, my agegroup is the superficial one. late teen - young adults are all about apearance, and i feel i fail. I know im a girl, but seeing that thing makes me sick to my stomach and doubt myself.
R :police:
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danielle_l

im not trying to spoil anything but trying to relate to the topic,

my experience of other transexuals and GIC clinics, is that there are lots of people that claim that they pass well, or that they have female this or that. I think they live in dream world, and normally have little or, no real life experience of being a woman.

When i say real life experience i mean things like standing up and talking in front of groups of people who do not know you, or applying for a job as a woman and passing in that interview as a woman. Building relationships with people as a woman and interacting with society as a woman.

Conversly, Going into a bar, and being called a woman is bloody easy. If you think you pass because you've done that, i'd be very sceptical. I always pass in bars. Its because nobody is paying you any attention. Likewise, walking through town is easy. Nobody looks at you and if they do, they're not going to call you a man anyway, why would they care?

I've met people who claim that they pass 100% and look like women, when in reality they look like men with awful dress sense. They are not in touch with reality and it makes me really sad for them. Whenever i go into the GIC clinics, i see what is essentially a group of men in dresses. Some look more male than others, but all look male to me. Some look really feminine facially, but never female facially. The whole picture, once the body is added  is completely that of a man. Others have a great body but a mans face.

I don't believe anything i hear or see from people claiming to pass on the internet. Its due to my real life experience telling me otherwise. If someone convinces me in reality, then i accept it. Otherwise, im sceptical. Maybe some of you are the 0,0001% lucky ones, but i have to trust what my eyes tell me in reality, not what people say on random anonymous internet forums.

I've yet to meet a genuinely passable transexual in a GIC clinic. I've probably met around 50 in my time.

In fact the last time i went in, there was a genetic woman sitting next to me who whispered to her husband 'the're all men aren't they!'.

dont get me wrong, im not saying im any better.. i've been 'hit on' by men on several occasions. I don't assume that this means i pass as a woman, just that on certain occasions, people may confuse me for a woman, based on my hairstyle and clothes. It always makes me scared of opening my mouth. My pass rate drops from nearly 100% to nearly 0% when i open my mouth.

As a teacher I've stood up in front of classes and been addressed as he, or him by half the class and she and her by the other half. Everytime i get called he or him, its like a knife sticking in my back, but i can't escape the way i am. I don't think i do badly for a transexual, in fact, quite the opposite, so i view with lots of suspicion when i see people saying that they pass so well.

Transitioning is not perfect. You can put on a skirt, and they'll call you a woman, but think you're a man. You can put on androgenous clothes and they'll call you a man but wonder if your a woman.

my experience is that women tend to accept me alot more than men. Non-white males are normally easier to convince than white males. The most difficult group to convince is younger white males aged 25-40. I suspect its because they are the ones who are looking most intensely for a prospective mate.

I think alot of transexuals who do not pass hide from their trueselves and take pictures of themselves where they may by accident look female, and hide out in comfortable places like this. I think its counterproductive for the transexual community because it makes us assume most pass, when in fact 99.9% do not.

Its such a difficult change from one sex to another, and i think living in denial about your strengths and weaknesses is the most difficult thing of all. I wake up one day and see a pretty woman, and the next day i see a hideous freak. Nothing changed over night, its just my perception of myself on different days.

sorry everyone but im just saying what i've seen.

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