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Disturbing & sinister "I just want to talk to you…"

Started by Ms Grace, May 19, 2014, 10:42:29 AM

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Ms Grace

I had a bit of a fun post a bit earlier today - "She's a good looking sort" - a couple of guys flirted good naturedly with me when I walked home this afternoon. Sure it was amusing but I still found it weird to have my appearance assessed like that; even so I played along, no need to get all "f@#$ off" on them, it was harmless enough. Right? But I do wonder if it isn't part of a spectrum, the other end of which I had an experience with this evening.

I had dinner in town with a couple of gal pals and left for home. We had a great evening. Just for info, I'm wearing jeans, below the knee boots and a leather jacket over a non-revealing top. And not under the influence either. I caught the train, no problem. At the home stop I wondered if I shouldn't catch the bus from the station...except it was half an hour away versus only a fifteen minute walk home. The walk home is along a well lit main street (although not very busy at 10.30 pm) and then a few minutes through a park. Not a well lit park at all. But you know, in the last eight and a half years I've lived here I've never had a problem or cause to feel concern walking through that park at night. Not once.

Now I don't know if this was two incidents or one. I was walking along the road, heard a car horn from a distance back, turned to look because it startled me, an SUV was waiting at the lights about 50 meters back, no other cars. Was that honk for me? Surely not. Apparently so. The SUV drives up slowly and pulls over to the kerb. Fortunately I was on the other side of the road so it's not like he was pulling up right next to me. This guy, an Indian, is just leering at me out the driver's window, I scowl at him and flicked my hand with a "be gone" type gesture and he drives away, goes up a block blocks and turns (against the traffic light I might add). Technically he was now on my side of the street, but it's buses only on my side so it's not like he could drive back up to me. I wondered if he might have parked in the side street, but no matter as I needed to cross anyway.

Got to the intersection where he turned. No apparent sign of him. To be honest I'm not sure I looked for him very much. The light was in my favour so I crossed and was then into the park.

Now this is a dark park. In the past I've always presumed I was safe there at night because it was so dark if there was a mugger they probably wouldn't be able to see me any better than I could see them. Stupid logic I guess. I'm about a third of the way into the park when I become aware that there's some guy coming up pretty quickly behind me, talking. No cause for concern, plenty of other people walk through the park so maybe it was just some guy talking on his phone. I adjust course so he can pass but next thing I know he's almost right behind me. I was a bit freaked at this point. By the accent it was an Indian guy, if it was the same Indian guy it was too dark to tell, on reflection it most likely was. And unlike most Indian guys this one was pretty tall, not as tall as me but he had some size to him.

Two thirds through the park I just stopped and circled back at him and made the hand gesture for him to walk past me. I really didn't want to engage or say anything in case my voice betrayed me; I was more concerned what he might do if he thought I was trans. (Maybe he already knew, who knows?) He didn't take the hint, "What's your name?" he asks. (WTF? Really??) I think I tried to say something, no idea what. He tries again, "What's wrong? I only want to talk to you." (Again, WTF? Again, really??

"Go away" I told him, fairly unconvincingly - it was all I could get out. I wasn't petrified but I was very, very rattled. Surprisingly he actually did. "OK" and just walked away. So that was a massive relief. When I got to my place, a block of units facing onto the park, I turned to make sure he wasn't following. He didn't appear to be, he had vanished as quickly as he had appeared (freaky enough). Even so I decided to go in through a different block in the complex and double back around through the rear entrances - that way he wouldn't know exactly where I lived.

So yeah. A disturbing and sinister encounter. Could have been a lot worse. It left me freaked, and jeeze what if he hadn't taken "go away" as an answer? To be honest, if I hadn't been taller I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have been so obliging. Seriously going to reconsider walking through that park after 8.30 now. Unbelievable. I had some inkling of this kind of ->-bleeped-<-, how men can make women feel unsafe in public spaces. The flirting incident I mentioned above is kind of the jovial/benign edge of that spectrum; then the car incident was bad enough but to be stalked through the park - by some guy who, in the warped recesses of his brain, thinks it's actually alright to approach women in a dark park for a freaking chat?!? - that's some real nasty intimidation. Not the worst form of it obviously, it could have been worse and fortunately wasn't, but it is ugly ->-bleeped-<-. Was it the guy from the car? I don't know, but if it wasn't that means this guy was lurking in the dark in the the park for a woman "to talk to".

Anyway... I AM OK.

Rattled yes, but OK. I've learned an important lesson about my personal safety which I had previously taken for granted living as a guy. To anyone who doubts male privilege exists, the greater personal safety you get as a guy moving through public spaces is a big invisible part of it.

As I said, I'm re-evaluating how I go home at night now. Wait for the bus or better still catch a cab. I'm getting a whistle. In Australia it's not legal to carry mace or a taser so whistle it is. I might talk to some of the women at work to get tips from them too. I know it sounds like a bummer way to end the night - but I'm not going to let him take that good time I had with my friends away from me. I AM OK!

The thing that bothers me is that the jerk is still out there and the next woman he decides he wants to talk to won't find him so easy to shake off.  :-\
Grace
----------------------------------------------
Transition 1.0 (Julie): HRT 1989-91
Self-denial: 1991-2013
Transition 2.0 (Grace): HRT June 24 2013
Full-time: March 24, 2014 :D
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naomi599

That sounds scary, I'm glad to hear your alright. For me a non lethal weapon choice is a very bright flash light. The one I carry is:


That light is small and light weight for the output it has, but it can surely leave a person blind for a few seconds even with a quick flash.
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JamesG

Remember that the only thing that separates humans from animals are a few extra brain cells (that don't always work right). Males especially are handicapped when their little head starts doing the thinking for them.

You were lucky Grace, you're turning and facing him made his nerve break.

I second getting some kind of defense. If you can't carry pepperspray, Naomi's idea is a good one. They even sell "tactical" flashligths that have prongs on them, notionally to use as a lamp (light spills out when placed shiny end down), but will leave a nasty mark when thrust into a hand or face.

Be careful out there. It's still a jungle.
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Beverly

Quote from: Ms Grace on May 19, 2014, 10:42:29 AM
I know it sounds like a bummer way to end the night - but I'm not going to let him take that good time I had with my friends away from me. I AM OK!

That is good to hear.


Quote from: Ms Grace on May 19, 2014, 10:42:29 AMThe thing that bothers me is that the jerk is still out there and the next woman he decides he wants to talk to won't find him so easy to shake off.  :-\

I had a similar experience a few years back at the start of my transition when I was pre-HRT. In my case it was a supermarket car park and the guy drove his car behind me, blocking me in. He also took no for an answer and left as in your encounter.

I do not mean to downplay what happened but both yours and mine may just have been doing what many (most?) guys do and trying his luck. Fortunately most of them also take no for an answer even though we should not depend on that. I think what we need to remember is that most men have absolutely no conception of the panic and worry such encounters can cause. It certainly never occurred to me at the time when I lived as male.

So, you are right not to let this upset you but I agree with being more cautious and perhaps using the very bright light Naomi mentioned. It would be enough to ruin someone's night vision for quite a few minutes.
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JamesG

The thing is though that what might be to them innocent, friendly, "trying their luck" can quickly turn into something more ugly if they're under the influence and/or have poor impulse control. Most rapes are "Crimes of opportunity."
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ErinWDK

Grace,

I am so sad to hear this happened to you.  Women have to take extra care for their personal security, that is just the world we live in.  Some men can be real creeps - and think it is fine to be that way.

Now that you know you will be more careful of places like that park.  One "tool" that might be of use to rattle the sorts that might try this is something to make noise, such as a very sharp whistle.  But caution is a better defence...

Take care of you!  Hugs.


Erin
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GendrKweer

I'm a bit of a night owl and often find myself walking home at 3, 4 or 5 in the morning through a mid-sized Italian city to my home.... I'm quite tall, and have a good sense of myself, but even so, I don't leave home without a little protection in my purse.... it's called a tactical slapper, and yes they are illegal everywhere, but one whack to the face with one of these leather and lead beauties will put a man down for the count. I'd rather worry about the legal ramifications later than get bashed or worse. Of course, you shouldn't pull one of these unless you have a little strength to back up your swing, but if you do, there ain't nothin' better. ;)

http://www.amazon.com/Fury-Tactical-Slapper-Personal-8-5-Inch/dp/B0027I09MM
Blessings,

D

Born: Aug 2, 2012, one of Dr Suporn's grrls.
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Beverly

Quote from: JamesG on May 19, 2014, 11:26:14 AM
The thing is though that what might be to them innocent, friendly, "trying their luck" can quickly turn into something more ugly if they're under the influence and/or have poor impulse control. Most rapes are "Crimes of opportunity."

Most men are not rapists. To run around in fear of all men because of a bad encounter would be lunacy. Speaking to other women to find strategies that work seems the best way forward.

I would also hope that this does not turn into a "How big a gun can I fit in my purse" thread.....
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JamesG

Quote from: vukapg on May 19, 2014, 11:44:33 AM
Most men are not rapists. To run around in fear of all men because of a bad encounter would be lunacy.

But most men have the potential to be rapists given the right circumstance. It's just a fact of life.  It's not "fear", it is being realistic and aware.


QuoteI would also hope that this does not turn into a "How big a gun can I fit in my purse" thread.....

You can always get a bigger purse.  ;D
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FalseHybridPrincess

Wow that was indeed scary...
its true that as a guy I used to feel so much safer, now I m kinda scared to walk alone at night especially at this kind of places
http://falsehybridprincess.tumblr.com/
Follow me and I ll do your dishes.

Also lets be friends on fb :D
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Miharu Barbie

Hiya Grace,

Sadly, this is a lesson that most women learn at a young age.  As trans women, we come to the awareness of our female vulnerability late in the game.  Trust your instincts and learn well the lessons as they come; in time you will develop instinctive strategies and patterns of behavior that will help to keep you safe.  Over the years, I've learned to ask people I trust to walk me to my car at night; I've learned to immediately lock my car upon entering it in a parking lot; I've learned to be very aware of my surroundings in secluded areas; I've learned to walk with focus and with confidence whether I feel it or not; and I've learned to carry an innocuous seeming self-defense weapon with me nearly everywhere I go.

As a mid-level competitive pool player, I find myself frequently leaving bars and pool halls late at night with a bit of a walk to my car.  I carry in my hand a hot pink (with hearts), anodized aluminum "tactical pen".  Basically, it's a beautiful pen made my Schrade (the knife division of Smith and Wesson) about 6 inches long with one pointed end; it's a stabbing weapon.  As a beautiful, girly pink metal pen (it also writes pink), I've found I'm able to carry it into secure places, like court houses and airports, but I've been assured by a police friend and by online reviews that, in a pinch, it will make an adequate self-defense weapon.

Have fun.  Love life.  Be free.  Fully express the complete measure of your feminine joy.  And by all means, keep yourself safe.  Life is meant to be enjoyed!

:)
Miharu
FEAR IS NOT THE BOSS OF ME!!!


HRT:                         June 1998
Full Time For Good:     November 1998
Never Looking Back:  Now!
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Tysilio

Grace, I'm really sorry that happened to you. You were fortunate it wasn't worse, but that sounds like a really disturbing experience.

And I think you're correct that there's a continuum between apparently harmless "flirting" from strangers, and being pursued and stalked like that. One characteristic of any crime is that it's often preceded by an "interview," in which a criminal is basically approaching you or chatting you up in order to assess whether you're a promising victim. Either of the incidents you describe could have been such an interview; the problem is that you don't always know. Unfortunately, in order to protect yourself, you need to assume the worst, especially if you're by yourself.

Here's a website that has a ton of information on ways to keep yourself safe: it's called  No Nonsense Self Defense: Reliable information for dangerous situations, and it focuses more on avoiding them and getting out of them before they escalate than on weapons or physical self-defense techniques, although it has a bit to say about those, too. It's a superb resource: you could spend days reading all the articles posted there, and the folks who run it are experts.

A "tactical" flashlight and a whistle are both good ideas, as is thinking seriously about things you can carry that make effective improvised weapons: keys, a sturdy pen with a sharp tip, etc.

You also might look into some self-defense classes -- not so much the formal martial arts like karate, tae kwon do, and the like, but ones that are oriented to street fighting skills. The best such discipline I know of is Krav Maga. You can take a few lessons, or make it a part of an overall fitness routine (but no, it won't give you bulging muscles  ;)) -- either way, you'll learn a lot about how to defend yourself in case the worst happens and you are attacked.

But the most important thing is to educate yourself about mindset and "situational awareness," and I don't know a better place to start than the NNSD site.

Be safe!
Never bring an umbrella to a coyote fight.
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Evelyn K

Quote from: naomi599 on May 19, 2014, 11:10:47 AM
That sounds scary, I'm glad to hear your alright. For me a non lethal weapon choice is a very bright flash light. The one I carry is:


That light is small and light weight for the output it has, but it can surely leave a person blind for a few seconds even with a quick flash.

^^^^^ This X 10000000!

I'm actually a candlepowerforums nut and I also EDC a lithium 18650 battery powered EagleTac TX25C2 with ANSI measured 960 lumens (real lumens out the front). It's compact and one of the brightest tac lights available in its size. It's strobe is very disorienting. You girls need to carry a bright light.




Point the hot spot of the beam at the two legged pest approaching (towards his legs) and command him to stop. To leave, etc. If he approaches closer raise the light to his mid section, command, then to his mouth, then to his eyes if he persists. In the order of aggression. (Frankly you should just run like Forest Gump out of there unless you're wearing heels).

Either way, you'll have to get your own self defense plan in order especially as a girl and depending what's legal at your location.

Also highly recommend reading the book "The Gift of Fear"
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suzifrommd

Grace, I'm glad you're OK. I've been aware of my vulnerability all my life (I've been a skinny uncoordinated guy - I wouldn't scare anyone) so this sort of thing is always in the back of my mind.

When you said "go away", that's the smartest thing you could have done. Right then, you distinguish between a predatory and a social situation. A predator keeps going. A misguided person seeking social contact (even in a dark park, there are people clueless enough to do this, apparently) had better break off.

Please stay safe. We need you.
Have you read my short story The Eve of Triumph?
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Kimberley Beauregard

Quote from: Ms Grace on May 19, 2014, 10:42:29 AM
Anyway... I AM OK.

I'm glad to read that after you had to endure an awful and frightening situation.
- Kim
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jussmoi4nao

Just an FYI, he may have misinterpreted and thought you were 'selling it'. I've had people make that assumption with me a couple times actually. Which isn't a reflection on you, just guys are stupid. And of course, the town I live in is very rednecky and I wear makeup a lot and am not exactly a modest dresser lol. So who knows.
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AnneB

Our girls are taught to give the command, "STOP, Return To Your Seat!"  in a forceful manner to break a person concentration and will (yes it works for most).  But a real bad guy it wont phase much.  From the sound of your encounter, it was not a "dedicated bad guy", just someone that thot he could try his luck.  Your reversing and facing him, was your STOP command.  You gotta be extra safe now. 

Our new mindset never prepared us for this new theater of aggression.  That mini-mag light, tactical (prongs on the front end) is a perfect tool for us.  I have one I use for work, and now I will get another one to carry all the time.

I am really glad you are ok, shaken by it, but ok.
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Nero

Quote from: Abbyxo on May 19, 2014, 12:29:52 PM
Just an FYI, he may have misinterpreted and thought you were 'selling it'. I've had people make that assumption with me a couple times actually. Which isn't a reflection on you, just guys are stupid. And of course, the town I live in is very rednecky and I wear makeup a lot and am not exactly a modest dresser lol. So who knows.

That was my first thought with the car. But the chasing her down in the park with the 'just wanted to talk to you' isn't normal. Creepy.

Grace, I would not take the route again. Who knows, you may even run into him again. And there are stalkers out there. Who knows if the guy has seen you going that way before, and this was his attempt at a move. Or just a creepy random.

Please try to walk with a friend or take a cab or bus or something. The extra time and cash saved taking a shortcut like that aren't worth it.
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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Evelyn K

Mini MAG lights are severely underpowered because they run on alkalines. I'd recommend staying away from off-the-shelf type stuff and picking up a lithium powered light.

Checkout goinggear.com for instance.

You'll need quality lithium batts and a charger of course. candlepowerforums.com is your friend for the latest. Keep in mind discussion of lights as 'weapons' is not accepted there.
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JamesG



Maybe make a report to the police in case they are tracking such things?
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