Have you considered living stealth an option?

[Allyda]

I think the days of being truly stealth are long gone.  If someone wants to find out our pasts, it's easy enough.

The best I think I'll ever manage, no matter how passable I end up looking, is being stealth to those who have never met me before - strangers on the street, etc.  There is no chance whatsoever that I'll be able to totally hide my male past.

I'm okay with that though.  I have absolutely no shame (anymore) about being trans.  It is what it is.  I can still be attractive and girly and trans, and there's no need for someone like me to try to hide everything.

I remember how absolutely f**king tiring it was to hide being trans from people.  It was a life-consuming battle that ended up not being worth it.  Trying to go stealth seems like much the same thing - weaving a massive, elaborate shell of fakeness and lies, trying to make everything so perfect and knowing that just one tiny slip will cause everything to collapse.  I couldn't live like that.

That's not to say that I won't do everything within my power and resources to look as girly as I possibly can.  I just don't want to expend the extraordinary mental effort it takes to hide secrets from people.  Life's too short.

You took the words right out of my mouth. I'm not ashamed of who I am or my past. I've lived honestly and true to myself. If I'm not asked, I won't tell. I won't attract attention to myself. However if I meet someone new whom I feel may become a decent friend I've no problem with telling them. After all, there's a personal safety issue to be considered here as well. A lot of violence toward transgender people, especially MTF's happens when close friends or Significant Others find out either by accident or malice.

Stay safe everyone!

Hugs

Ally

[Allyda]

I don't think it's all about passing in a visual sense. I think it's an overall output from the trans person to relay the correct gender. Honestly, I think voice is a bigger factor than a lot of people realize. And that's just 1 piece of a big puzzle.

Alainaluvsu, I usually agree with everything your saying, but here I have a difference of opinion. While I'll agree that voice is a huge piece of the puzzle, I've been passing for the last 5 years nonstop with a very scratchy voice in the mid to upper male range. So I don't think that voice alone will prevent you from passing or remaining stealth. Yes I am tiny with an unmistakable female body shape, and how I present to others is quite girly (I've always been this way -too hard to hide my girlyness even as a child) which I feel has a lot to do with my passing with ease despite my voice issues. But these things alone aren't enough either. I'm very confident in my femininity, which I've been told shines through as I present myself to others. So I don't believe any one thing will make or break whether you pass or not, or can go stealth. I believe it's the entire package that makes the difference. And also that if there's a weak link in one's presentation such as voice, if the rest of one's presentation is strongly confident and feminine people will look past the voice.

On a personal note: Though it's taken nearly 5 years of trying I've finally found a semblance of my feminine voice. While presently I can't say more than a few words, I finally have found some little hope that even though my throat has suffered much damage due to my accident, with practice I may be able to speak in a higher more feminine pitch until I have my VFS. Small victories!!, YaY!

Best wishes Girls!

Ally

[Handy]

My original plan was to transition, then immediately cut off all my family/friends, move across the country, and live completely stealth for the rest of my days (growing up in a *very* southern baptist environment, I had assumed people the world over, in general, responded to trans people with either violence, or super violence, and considered stealth a necessity).

Unfortunately the GD became so bad I couldn't wait until I had graduated to say something/begin transition. Thus, I came out to my girlfriend (who responded AMAZINGLY), then got up the courage to come out to some of my other friends (who were generally not surprised). Scheduled an appointment with one of my campus therapists who helped me not associate GD/being trans* with unimaginable guilt and shame. I started going to LGBT groups on campus who were super supportive, used correct pronouns, etc. and gained some confidence.

This still didn't convince me to live non-stealth, but it DID help me accept that, inevitably, with all the information out there, someone would find out somehow, and that it wouldn't mean the end of the world.

With the trans* movement becoming more and more prominent, I finally decided to be *open* about it and give up on living stealth. I realized one of the reasons things are so bad for trans* people it that, unlike gay/lesbian people, most people do not know a trans* person. There is a quote often attributed to Harvey Milk that really struck me when I was considering living stealth, and I'm surely paraphrasing/misquoting but the gist of it was, "If every gay person in this country would come out of the closet, we'd win overnight". Well I agreed and felt surely the same could apply to trans* people.

So, here I am, living openly; it's a lot easier to hate a group when you don't have the face of someone you've known and loved tied to it. Just hoping that by living openly it'll do some good for the world.

[Carol2000]

I would love to live stealth but I agree with the others in that it seems a bit impossible in this day and age, plus I feel like even if I move somewhere far away it's a small world and someone I once knew might be there and out me.

I guess it concerns me a little – all this talk about it being impossible to live a stealth life with all the technology around. I transitioned at work in 1982 and the experience of being called a freak and various other nasty names by work colleagues didn't exactly fill me with delight. I could not wait to have my SRS and disappear.

After my SRS I applied for a job in London as Caroline. My then boss gave me a glowing reference without mentioning my trans status and I got the job. About two years later I applied for a much better job and got that, too. This time I changed my surname, just to dust over the tracks, so to speak.

It was at that job that I met the man who would go on to become my husband. He was married at the time, but I met him again years later after he had divorced and we decided to live together. I broke the news to him about my trans-status 6 months after we moved in together. The reason I did it was because I had two children who had accepted me as Caroline and I wanted to be able to see them again.

My revelation led to a tricky few weeks but we stayed together and he has been my rock ever since. We got married in 2006. None of his side of the family know my secret and neither do my four grandchildren. I'm happy with that.

As for bumping into somebody from my past. Yes, it has happened three or four times, but in each case they have not realised they knew me before. One actually joined as an IT specialist at the firm where I worked and I didn't recognise him because he had a common name and had put on some weight. It was only a few months later when he was talking about where he used to work that I realised we had been colleagues in my previous life.

Nothing happened and we carried on working together for several years until he was made redundant and I was promoted to head of the department. He had been a good worker, so I then decided to hire him on a contract to keep our computers running.

But the face from the past that really was a hoot was an engineer who came in to service a piece of equipment for the company. Minus his beard I didn't recognise him, but when he said his name, I recognised him immediately as someone I had worked with.

I had to explain to him what the problem was we were having with this piece of equipment. We were both in a small room where the equipment was kept, so time for a bit of small talk. I asked him where he had worked before. He mentioned several places including the one where we had both worked. He had been in charge of dealing with the post there and I knew him quite well at the time. But according to him he had been a chief executive in charge of major contracts. Lol

As we talked, I realised that he was actually flirting with me, which I found quite funny. I graciously declined his invitation to go out with him, saying my boyfriend wouldn't be happy.

Being in stealth has worked for me and I have never had any problems with getting jobs – and I have never had to leave a job because of my secret leaking out.

One day it might come back to bite me and I'll have to deal with that when it does. But I have had 30 years being in stealth – ok, so my children know about me, but I wouldn't want it any other way.


Caroline
x

[Ravensong]

Okay....so stupid question....What exactly is meant by going stealth?  It sounds like mainly hiding the fact that you are trans, either by omission (just not telling people), burying it (pretty much burying it away after passing full/fully transitioning, so no one finds out), or running incognito (presenting completely as male in public until the transition is "complete").  How close am I?  I want to put my two cents in here, but want to make sure I know what I'm talking about first.

[Isabelle]

True stealth would be virtually impossible unless you'd been diagnosed as a 3 year old.... People will out you. You need to have strategies for coping with this. It honestly feels like having the floor ripped out from under you. I recently found out a friend had outed me to some of her friends. My response was, to inform some of my friends that she suffers from herpes. I then casually mentioned to her that, I was discussing her herpes with some friends, and they were all shocked because she totaly didn't seem like the type to have it. She was horrified and devistated but eventually, the delicious irony dawned upon her.

My "friends" don't out me now.

[Carol2000]

Okay....so stupid question....What exactly is meant by going stealth?  It sounds like mainly hiding the fact that you are trans, either by omission (just not telling people), burying it (pretty much burying it away after passing full/fully transitioning, so no one finds out), or running incognito (presenting completely as male in public until the transition is "complete").  How close am I?  I want to put my two cents in here, but want to make sure I know what I'm talking about first.

Apparently, you are right in both of your interpretations. I discovered the term "stealth" being used on forums a few years ago, and realised it seemed to relate to my situation. I felt it was a handy shorthand for describing on here how I lived my life as a trans woman. However, there are some who use the term "stealth" to describe how they dress secretly, or don't talk to people about their need to transition, but live as a male. There may well be other variations.

But I think that the majority of posters on this thread are refering to living totally as female without revealing one's trans status.

Caroline
x

[Carol2000]

True stealth would be virtually impossible unless you'd been diagnosed as a 3 year old.... People will out you. You need to have strategies for coping with this. It honestly feels like having the floor ripped out from under you. I recently found out a friend had outed me to some of her friends. My response was, to inform some of my friends that she suffers from herpes. I then casually mentioned to her that, I was discussing her herpes with some friends, and they were all shocked because she totaly didn't seem like the type to have it. She was horrified and devistated but eventually, the delicious irony dawned upon her.

My "friends" don't out me now.

Love it!
Caroline
x

[Isabelle]

Ravensong, stealth means being assumed to be cisgender by everyone, from friends and colleagues to strangers etc.
it's becoming an old fashioned term and like "passing" some believe it to hold offensive connotations.

Some people mistakenly refer to "stealth" meaning they're actually in the closet, or even more erroneously, that they are recreational ->-bleeped-<-s in private.
Language however, evolves in a democratic process. We're all entitled to ascribe our own meanings to words.

[LittleEmily24]

Judging by my experiences with the people around me in my area.... I will probably end up going stealth if the hormones deem me lucky enough to do so. I'm simply tired of everyone I know or strangers I meet saying things or implying the idea that "nothing I do will change that I was a man and will never be a "real" woman".

The idea that being a "real woman" down here is so prominent a belief in social situations just makes me wish for stealthness for be sake if not losing my mind.

I've pretty much made a hermit of myself because it's one thing for people to need time getting use to it, it's another thing entirely to be around people who will "always see you as who you were in both name and gender."

The fact that id merely be a "pseudo-female" around people is frustrating me to the point where living a normal girl life would require stealth because people are too stubborn to let go of conventional ideals for what is a man and what is a woman. I can't so much as say hi to people properly because of how skittish men get around me... It's ridiculous. It's almost like they expect me to bite them or eat them.

I'm constantly outed and it's left me with the desire to simply and socially "start over".

Also; what really gets to me the most is the whole "I remember one time othername.... Well I mean, back then you were othername" it's like "gee thanks for realizing you made a mistake after blatantly outing that I use to be male now everyone can linger on that little note and I can go about the rest of my night thinking about how everyone who might've thought I was cis female now only sees me as a man in a dress."

As proud in myself as I wanna be, and as unapologetic and unashamed as I am for being a transwoman, stealth seems to be the only way to salvage my patience reserves before they run psychotically dry.

[Ltl89]

I'm going to live as stealth as possible.  Obviously some people will know and I can't hide my past.  However, everyone that meets me from day one of fulltime and on will not need to know I'm trans.  Other than a potential romantic partner, I see no reason to tell anyone.   Personally, I don't want to be known as I transwoman.  I want to be seen as a girl and blend as best as I can.  That's my biggest hope that I can have.  I'm not sure if that's even possible though.  To be honest, I'm ashamed to be trans.  I shouldn't be nor should I care what others think, but I do  I believe going stealth would allow me to hide from those feelings and judgements.  At the same time, it's the reason why I'm not oing fulltime in June like I said.  I wait for the time to perfectly pass which will never exist.

[stephaniec]

I'm going to live as stealth as possible.  Obviously some people will know and I can't hide my past.  However, everyone that meets me from day one of fulltime and on will not need to know I'm trans.  Other than a potential romantic partner, I see no reason to tell anyone.   Personally, I don't want to be known as I transwoman.  I want to be seen as a girl and blend as best as I can.  That's my biggest hope that I can have.  I'm not sure if that's even possible though.  To be honest, I'm ashamed to be trans.  I shouldn't be nor should I care what others think, but I do  I believe going stealth would allow me to hide from those feelings and judgements.  At the same time, it's the reason why I'm not oing fulltime in June like I said.  I wait for the time to perfectly pass which will never exist.

I guess I'm pretty different, I get a kick out of being trans. It's probably because I've lived so much life already it just doesn't make sense for me to worry about being stealth. Though when I'm all done up , I think I look pretty good

[Jenna Marie]

I'm another who thinks it's getting increasingly difficult to pull off pure stealth (starting over with absolutely no one knowing about your past) in the current computerized age. In any event, I had a wife, a job, and a family I didn't want to lose... so I transitioned in place. Oddly, as time goes by, fewer and fewer people know or remember the story anyway, so it's also working out that I'm kind of "stealth" to most people unless/until I come out, except without the anxiety about being outed.

[Alainaluvsu]

I'll point out is it really worth not friending family on FB just to keep a stealth status? I think that's pretty self centered if someone thinks it is. To just disappear from people you love to go 100% stealth. I couldn't do it...


Allyda: Sounds like we're in agreement actually I said it was a big piece of the puzzle, not the whole thing.

[BunnyBee]

I'll point out is it really worth not friending family on FB just to keep a stealth status? I think that's pretty self centered if someone thinks it is. To just disappear from people you love to go 100% stealth. I couldn't do it...

Yeah, me neither.  I know people that have done this and I'm sure it was the best thing for them, but yeah, no.  Every person in my life that was amazing enough to be supportive, I love them for that, I would not turn my back on them.  I would not want to.  We need to surround ourselves with amazing people, when you find them, you have found a precious gem.

I think that erasing your past thing is an antiquated practice anyway, that was necessary decades ago, but good luck doing it now with the internet existing, and it is less necessary now anyway.  Most people do the sort of demi-stealth thing, where it's just kind of happens by accident, where everybody new you meet just assumes you were always a woman because why would they not, and you have no reason to tell them otherwise.  I think it works, but you have to understand you will be outed occasionally and it will be dramatic and you need to be able to deal with it with grace.

[Ducks]

Ravensong, stealth means being assumed to be cisgender by everyone, from friends and colleagues to strangers etc.
it's becoming an old fashioned term and like "passing" some believe it to hold offensive connotations.

Some people mistakenly refer to "stealth" meaning they're actually in the closet, or even more erroneously, that they are recreational ->-bleeped-<-s in private.
Language however, evolves in a democratic process. We're all entitled to ascribe our own meanings to words.

I respectfully disagree with your meanings of words.  Stealth is about your control over how you identify yourself, i.e. for MtF that means as a cis woman, not as a trans woman.  Being stealth is not about what others may perceive or wonder, or about 100% anonymity.  The idea that if some clerk in a basement changes your ender marker from M to F on your drivers license means you can't still be stealth is kind of ridiculous unless you plan to date that person.  Equating stealth MtF people as recreational ->-bleeped-<-s is an odd thing to say. 

If non-op or pre-op people tell you stealth is impossible, consider that they are trying to pass as women with male genitals and doing that is always difficult, especially if they are trying to live a complete life including the need to change cloths in public.

[Ravensong]

Most people do the sort of demi-stealth thing, where it's just kind of happens by accident, where everybody new you meet just assumes you were always a woman because why would they not, and you have no reason to tell them otherwise.  I think it works, but you have to understand you will be outed occasionally and it will be dramatic and you need to be able to deal with it with grace.

I like that.  That is what I'm going to strive for, I think.  I'm still pre-hrt, so I know it will be a while before I am at the pseudo-stealth/demi-stealth level.

Equating stealth MtF people as recreational ->-bleeped-<-s is an odd thing to say. 

If I'm reading this correctly, it sounds like you misinterpreted what Isabelle said.  She said that some people *mistakenly* refer to stealth that way, not that she did.  Isabelle's description of stealth seems to be a lot like yours, she was just pointing out how *some* people use the term.  If I misinterpreted what you said, then please let me know, I'm just trying to understand, and don't want to come across as argumentative or anything.

In any case, thanks for all the input and help ya'll.

[Ducks]

I'm another who thinks it's getting increasingly difficult to pull off pure stealth (starting over with absolutely no one knowing about your past) in the current computerized age. In any event, I had a wife, a job, and a family I didn't want to lose... so I transitioned in place. Oddly, as time goes by, fewer and fewer people know or remember the story anyway, so it's also working out that I'm kind of "stealth" to most people unless/until I come out, except without the anxiety about being outed.

I know I'm repeating myself but I really must point out that stealth can never be 100% even in the days of old before computers.  For gosh sake, your mother knows, your therapist knows, your Dr. knows, etc., etc.. Just because someone on planet earth knows your past, doesn't mean you have to live 'out' and constantly out yourself to people.  Do you people who are openly trans really correct people who think you're cis? 

[Ducks]

I guess it concerns me a little – all this talk about it being impossible to live a stealth life with all the technology around. I transitioned at work in 1982 and the experience of being called a freak and various other nasty names by work colleagues didn't exactly fill me with delight. I could not wait to have my SRS and disappear.

After my SRS I applied for a job in London as Caroline. My then boss gave me a glowing reference without mentioning my trans status and I got the job. About two years later I applied for a much better job and got that, too. This time I changed my surname, just to dust over the tracks, so to speak.

It was at that job that I met the man who would go on to become my husband. He was married at the time, but I met him again years later after he had divorced and we decided to live together. I broke the news to him about my trans-status 6 months after we moved in together. The reason I did it was because I had two children who had accepted me as Caroline and I wanted to be able to see them again.

My revelation led to a tricky few weeks but we stayed together and he has been my rock ever since. We got married in 2006. None of his side of the family know my secret and neither do my four grandchildren. I'm happy with that.

As for bumping into somebody from my past. Yes, it has happened three or four times, but in each case they have not realised they knew me before. One actually joined as an IT specialist at the firm where I worked and I didn't recognise him because he had a common name and had put on some weight. It was only a few months later when he was talking about where he used to work that I realised we had been colleagues in my previous life.

Nothing happened and we carried on working together for several years until he was made redundant and I was promoted to head of the department. He had been a good worker, so I then decided to hire him on a contract to keep our computers running.

But the face from the past that really was a hoot was an engineer who came in to service a piece of equipment for the company. Minus his beard I didn't recognise him, but when he said his name, I recognised him immediately as someone I had worked with.

I had to explain to him what the problem was we were having with this piece of equipment. We were both in a small room where the equipment was kept, so time for a bit of small talk. I asked him where he had worked before. He mentioned several places including the one where we had both worked. He had been in charge of dealing with the post there and I knew him quite well at the time. But according to him he had been a chief executive in charge of major contracts. Lol

As we talked, I realised that he was actually flirting with me, which I found quite funny. I graciously declined his invitation to go out with him, saying my boyfriend wouldn't be happy.

Being in stealth has worked for me and I have never had any problems with getting jobs – and I have never had to leave a job because of my secret leaking out.

One day it might come back to bite me and I'll have to deal with that when it does. But I have had 30 years being in stealth – ok, so my children know about me, but I wouldn't want it any other way.


Caroline
x

Yes!  This is what living stealth is, girls.  Live your life fully as a woman, and deal with those situations that may arise with aplomb.  Well said, Caroline, and well lived!

[Ducks]

If I'm reading this correctly, it sounds like you misinterpreted what Isabelle said.  She said that some people *mistakenly* refer to stealth that way, not that she did.  Isabelle's description of stealth seems to be a lot like yours, she was just pointing out how *some* people use the term.  If I misinterpreted what you said, then please let me know, I'm just trying to understand, and don't want to come across as argumentative or anything.

I am saying that the word stealth isn't applied to one class of people, it is a verb not a noun.  I find it odd that anyone could think that the word stealth only means secret cross dressers.  It puts the idea of hiding your trans status into a category of 'dirty little secret' and I don't believe anyone should have to consider being trans anything a dirty secret (or as everybody's business).  I also think it is ridiculous to out yourself, it smacks of attention seeking to me... but that is my opinion only.  For sure anyone who wants to know about living "stealth" as a MtF trans woman should listen to those who have done it and not those who want to debate the impossibility of it.  That approach only makes people feel afraid, hopeless and alone.  There is nothing about surviving this ordeal and living well at the end of it that should make anyone feel ashamed or hopeless, rather it should be a reason for joy and satisfaction.