3 months hrt and no boobs...

[Jessica Merriman]

So does that mean all the changes are just in my head :/

Not really it is just muscle mass takes a little longer than three months. After three months you should at least have different sensations in your nipples by now. Slight puffing, budding, new sensation just something. After three months on Spiro and "E" mine started to kill me. They were sore, budding and very slightly puffy.

[Jenny07]

Anna

I have been just on a low dose of E now for some time and the last visit my T had dropped from 28 to 7.
This is without blockers at this point so Yes E can drop T levels alone however to get to normal Cis levels blockers are needed.

Breast growth, while not spectacular has been slow and steady for me. Other changes also have occurred such as skin and hair.
At 3 month I did not have much to show either. Just be patient as it take time.

All the best
Jen

[peky]

ok I removed the doses but ya my doctor said if an antiandrogen is necessary later on she will add it but ya now im worried...

Almost all recommended HRT protocols to treat MTF GID require the inclusion of anti-androgens.

What is most commons is to put the patient in anti-androgens until the free-testosterone titer approaches that of natal female, and then slowly increase and monitor estradiol levels.

If I were you, I would find myself another doc...

[Ms Grace]

Three months is no time at all, your body is just getting geared up...think of it as being like a cis girl pre puberty, for some of them it takes years before they have anything to write about. It's not just a matter of hormones but genetics. Patience is essential, over the next few years you'll have a sense of where you'll end up cup size-wise

[Jessica Merriman]

Is your Doctor using the WPATH Standards of Care or her own personal opinions? We have a copy here if you would like to read them.

https://www.susans.org/wiki/Standards_of_Care_for_Gender_Identity_Disorders

Androgen reducing medications ("anti-androgens")
A combination of estrogen and "anti-androgens" is the most commonly studied regimen for feminization. Androgen reducing medications, from a variety of classes of drugs, have the effect of reducing either endogenous testosterone levels or testosterone activity, and thus diminishing masculine characteristics such as body hair. They minimize the dosage of estrogen needed to suppress testosterone, thereby reducing the risks associated with high-dose exogenous estrogen (Prior, Vigna, Watson, Diewold, & Robinow, 1986; Prior, Vigna, & Watson, 1989).

[KayXo]

my mom when she was younger she said she had very small breasts, other girls would make fun of her mosquito bites for tits, it wasn't until she had babies that they got bigger.

And during pregnancy, levels of estradiol range from 1,000- 40,000 pg/ml, levels of progesterone from 10-300 ng/ml and sometimes even much higher in the case of both hormones. Prolactin also significantly increases, in the hundreds to 200 ng/ml and during breastfeeding as well. So, sometimes, it may take quite a significant amount to trigger decent breast growth or even other changes. Depends on the individual. This is clearly my case as things have really started to take off since switching to injectable estradiol where my last blood test showed levels to be at around 4,000 pg/ml estradiol (on day 3 after injection). I also take progesterone. My breasts are starting to get bouncy, some cleavage which is amazing and my hair/skin is SO soft!

You gotta think, no matter what the genetics are with the female members are in your family, they were born completely with estrogenic producing bodies and all the right stuff, we as trans-women, we started out with the wrong bodies, got all that testosterone to battle against, so don't expect any miracles.

True to a certain extent, also because we have much less growth hormones. BUT, if we take enough estrogen with or without an anti-androgen, our testosterone can be effectively inhibited, allowing estrogen to work its magic. But, yea, there are limits because of the age at which we start, previous masculinization, etc which varies from one person to another. All this to say that, nevertheless, pretty significant changes can happen and you really never know. Give it some time (years), find a doctor that is open-minded, that is willing to be aggressive in treatment, if need be, while keeping risks low, that is familiar with this sort of treatment and that really cares about your well-being and transition. 

[KayXo]

If you get too aggressive, the HRT can sometimes actually work against your development.

But, sometimes, in the case of some people, aggressive is required if lower/medium gives no results after several months/years. And if done properly by a competent doctor, risks can be minimized and benefits maximized.

[KayXo]

If you're on Estradiol Valerate you can expect that cos me during 5 years I haven't had any boobs, not even cup A. I just had my boobs implants directly by the end. My other friends succeeded with Ethinyl estradiol which is a very potent form of estrogen but more dangerous that its taken only in micrograms. Ask your endo if he could prescribe you that but it's risky. Risky but quicker, me I preferered and took the slower way but safer that's why I remained on Estradiol valerate during 5 years despite it never gave me neither boobs nor hips but just smooth skin.

I don't think it's a good idea to ever take Ethinyl Estradiol due to the risks involved and because, really, it has no advantage over bio-identical estradiol. If you did not have good results, it could simply be because you weren't taking enough OR that regardless of how much you took, ethinyl or bio-identical, you just wouldn't get anything because of genetics or some other factor but I suspect the former. Bio-identical estradiol is effective enough. If it works for genetic women, it can work for us too and is MUCH safer! Besides, I think doctors understand the risks today and will rarely, if ever, prescribe ethinyl anymore.

[KayXo]

Not really it is just muscle mass takes a little longer than three months. After three months you should at least have different sensations in your nipples by now. Slight puffing, budding, new sensation just something. After three months on Spiro and "E" mine started to kill me. They were sore, budding and very slightly puffy.

I agree. Usually, for me, it's 1-2 months.

[the old mare]

Just sounds like your doctor is slowly ramping you up to see how you do and it doesn't sound as if she is ruling out antiandrogens altogether, just putting them off to see how you do on e alone. not necessarily a bad approach, so give it some time.

[KayXo]

They minimize the dosage of estrogen needed to suppress testosterone, thereby reducing the risks associated with high-dose exogenous estrogen (Prior, Vigna, Watson, Diewold, & Robinow, 1986; Prior, Vigna, & Watson, 1989).

The risks appear to be quite low if the exogenous estrogen is bio-identical estrogen and not Premarin/Ethinyl Estradiol which was most probably the estrogen studied in those references from the 1980's. And especially, if it is taken non-orally. For this reason, some doctors do prescribe nowaways only estrogen (and sometimes progesterone) without an anti-androgen pre-op, but usually in the form of injectables or pellets where levels are high enough (and still safe enough) to suppress T effectively and estrogenize adequately. I personally think taking bio-identical estradiol non-orally alone is associated with much less side-effects than taking an anti-androgen with it. Those guidelines, I think, should be updated to get in line with today's new reality and treatment of transsexuals. Those references are quite old.

[ana1111]

I'm getting really worried that I may never grow breasts how likely is that?? Seriously I can't stop worrying about this

[KayXo]

You've only been on hormones 3 months and without an anti-androgen!! ABSOLUTELY no reason to worry and worst case scenario, years from now, you can always decide to go for breast implants.

[Hideyoshi]

I'm getting really worried that I may never grow breasts how likely is that?? Seriously I can't stop worrying about this

3 months is nothing. I was started on E only like you (but I was also on a DHT blocker that doesn't really drop total testosterone levels anyway) and I had slow changes. At about the 2-3 month mark I had breast pain with the little marble-sized buds, but YMMV. About a year in I was sitting at a small A cup, between tanner stage II-III

What are your hormone levels? It could be that the E dose you are on isn't enough to cause any significant changes.

It was not until I added spiro and then ultimately medroxyprogesterone that I started skyrocketing in boob growth and overall feminization.

[Natalie]

Ok so ive been on hrt for about three months and still no sign of any breast growth....no pain, soreness or anything like that.... The weird thing is I could swear there has been other significant changes to my body that others have noticed too... basically though my doctor has me on just E right now. She started me on a ow dosage and now its a bit higher... is not having any breast growth at three months normal given my dosage and the fact that im only 18 years old?? Everyone in my family has large breasts so the genes are there but is there any significant chance that I won't grow breasts at all?

It takes "years" to grow boobies. I am talking anywhere from 3-10 years to fully develop. Furthermore, you never stated how low the "low dose" was. If it's too low I'd find another doctor with more experience.

[V M]

Please review Rule 8 of the Site Terms of Service and rules to live by

8. The discussion of hormone replacement therapy(HRT) and it's medications are permitted, with the following limitations:
A. You may not advocate for or against a specific medication or combinations of medication for personal gain. This is strictly prohibited.
B. You may not discuss the means to acquire HRT medications without a prescription. The discussion of self medication without a doctors supervision is prohibited.
C. The discussion of recommended or actual dosages is strongly discouraged to prevent information obtained on this site from being used to self medicate.
We can not in good conscience condone the self administering of these medications. Not only may self medication be illegal, but HRT medications can cause serious health problems, and many have the potential for life-threatening side effects that can only be detected and prevented with proper medical supervision.

Thank you

V M

[Allyda]

Thanks VM for clarifying those rules.

3 months isn't a lot of time and your young yet. I'm at 5 months and 3 weeks and only have a medium sized A cup. However mine started budding after about 2 weeks in, and became real sore -they still are sore but get worse just before a growth spurt. I'm however on an anti-androgen and a T blocker as well as my E. The AA's were necessary in my case due to my age and a feminine hair loss pattern I had developed before starting my hrt, which has now reversed and my hair is coming back in in my problem areas. I'm tiny built so if I get a decent B cup I'll be more than satisfied.

Having said that, I agree with most others here that you need more time. Hrt affects everyone differently because of genetics. While age may have a little to do with it I based on my own experience believe genetic's to be the determining factor as to what grows where, and when.

I think you have the right idea in giving your Endo a little more time. However I wouldn't over do that extra time (for example, give her to the 6 month mark), and make sure you express your concerns with her for your lack of development. However also, I would wait until at least the 6 month mark before pushing for anything too hard, because your Endo might just be being careful due to the results of your bloodwork. You could ask her to explain those results more clearly to you in language you can understand (no offense, but even I have a hard time comprehending medicalese, lol!) and to explain her future plans regarding your treatment.

Best wishes and all my hopes the booby fairy will visit you soon.

Ally

[Missy~rmdlm]

she supposedly has a lot of experience... she says estrogen can lower testosterone by itself...

Yes, the key term was -low dose- estrogen. High doses of E alone can indeed wipe out T and provide a serum residual... That's an archaic form of HT at this point though.

[Natalie]

I would like to have size "C" female boobs. However, my wife would not go for me having hormone treatments so I would have to find some way that would make it appear to be natural.

So, you'd rather lie and deceive your wife because that will accomplish what in the long run?

[KayXo]

I'm however on an anti-androgen and a T blocker

Aren't these the same? Finasteride does not block DHT, it only reduces it. Some anti-androgens just block androgens, others only reduce and some a little of both.

The AA's were necessary in my case due to my age and a feminine hair loss pattern I had developed before starting my hrt

AAs are not absolutely necessary regardless of age or hair loss pattern. Estrogen alone can act effectively as an anti-androgen since it reduces androgen production in the body and has some anti-androgenic effects in cells as well, it seems, based on several studies. BUT, if that approach is taken, usually estrogen is taken non-orally, by injections or pellets. DHT inhibitors like finasteride are however useful for girls with significant scalp hair loss or who are prone to baldness due to genetics.

While age may have a little to do with it

Not so sure about that. When we are young, our body seems more sensitive, the process of aging hasn't yet started and growth hormone levels are at their highest.