Re: How Many Transitioned Women Here Think Men Are "Weird" Now?

[Kimberly]

If you ever can find one,  look up the diagnosis for transvestism/crossdressing/transexualism in a 60' 70's medical book.

NO! I mean, no thank you.
Granted I'm mostly an 80s baby but there was enough bleed though to have figured out how to hide really good and really fast.


Oh... as for men? They were weird then, still are now. For some reason that just does not seem probable to change

As far as good pets go... *snicker* Not even close (in my opinion of course!) Any man who would be a pet isn't near as good as my puppy A man to be a man though, that's worth something... I'm just not sure what

[Terri-Gene]

A man to be a man though, that's worth something... I'm just not sure what

People who know me well would say I wouldn't know what to do with a man if I had one.  They are Wrong.  I'd point out where the parts are, give him a wrench and explain how I like a decent car but hate grease.  I know exactly what they are good for, keeping my hands clean, even though I'll probably have to supervise to make sure they get it right.

Terri

[DawnL]

People who know me well would say I wouldn't know what to do with a man if I had one.  They are Wrong.  I'd point out where the parts are, give him a wrench and explain how I like a decent car but hate grease.  I know exactly what they are good for, keeping my hands clean, even though I'll probably have to supervise to make sure they get it right.

You didn't attach a smiley to that statement though perhaps you meant to.  Nevertheless, for women to demand equality and then hang onto male gender stereotypes like this really doesn't advance the cause of equality, does it? 

Dawn

[Hazumu]

Yeah, ain't sterotypes grand.. quite useful things.

Yeah, I use stereotypes in my line of work all the time (video production.)  Makes my life easier, communication with 'the audience' easier.  But sometimes I feel sorry for the audience for self-imposing such tight limits on themselves and failing to see the much larger and more beautifully intricate horizon out there.

Part of my epiphany came when I realized that while I finally came to understand the unspoken and unwritten 'rules' of the hyper-predator male competitor (winning is everything, no expense is too great to achieve victory,) I felt that winning at the expense of absolutely +#<%ing over others was wrong, wrong, wrong!  I can never win that game 'cause I'd never go that far to get to the top.  Better to conspire with like-minded individuals to achieve without cutting out of the herd and mowing down some poor-bastard sacrifical lamb just to 'win'.

[Hazumu]

People who know me well would say I wouldn't know what to do with a man if I had one.  They are Wrong.  I'd point out where the parts are, give him a wrench and explain how I like a decent car but hate grease.  I know exactly what they are good for, keeping my hands clean, even though I'll probably have to supervise to make sure they get it right.

I know what you mean.  My car ("The Purple Turd") is starting to lose the Power Steering Pump.  I've spoken to three of four so-called 'experts' -- none of them got the right diagnosis even though I held their hands and walked them through all the symptoms and Troubleshooting 101.  But each one of 'em spouted their wrong-@$$ 'diagnosis' as if they were God's Gift to Mechanicking.

The dilemma -- waste a weekend replacing the pump and learning as I go, or waste big bucks on a self-licking-ice-cream-cone of a 'mechanic' who couldn't find his nether region with the help of a stud-finder, a borescope, and both hands.

Yeah, men are weird.

[Terri-Gene]

stereotypes like this really doesn't advance the cause of equality, does it?  

And how does it degrade equality the way I do it?  whoever I ask to do something like that for me knows perfectly well I could do it better and faster on my own, I just hate cleaning my nails and wiping the blood off when I nick myself and they know that as most have seen me work.

It's pretending you can't do something that may cause harm, thats a little different then when you simply don't want to, which I don't anymore then I have to these days.

and as far as equality goes, I can out run, out jump, out drive, out ride, out shoot (if I wanted to) out fight and outwork more then 90% of the true blooded men in this country and the world for that matter as measured by the U.S. government in the many training programs I have participated in.  They want equality, they gonna have to catch up.

Terri

[stephanie_craxford]

Well here is a new sport, well maybe not, I think that there is another thread like this somewhere around. 

Even though I never considered myself a man or even bothered to try and fit in as one I don't have the "man-hatred" or "man-bashing" attitudes that I have noticed are quite prevalent in some of the TS community. Maybe it's a matter of experiences and situations that I have or haven't had, being on the younger end of the spectrum and growing up in and around SF.

You may be right Gina, It does seem that for some in the TS comunity, man bashing is a way of hiding their own male upbringing.  It's almost as though one is trying to cover up this fact by reacting in such away.  I agree that I would never admit to my male upringing so to speak, but I would not do it at the expence of anyones feelings.  My grandfather was a wonderful man, kind, caring, and loving.  Weird... well may be a little, may be it was as a result of loosing a leg, fighting for his country in WW2.

Steph

[Kimberly]

Part of the venom I think is the result of the wrong upbringing, I'd say it's certainly enough of a reason to be venomous. But in my case a lot of my dislike of the male of the species was the result of early childhood, though to be honest I don't think I liked guys that much before then. But what is interesting is starting out with a great dislike of men has been tempered by finding a few that are pretty darn decent.

Nothing like taking conflicting sides of things and then shoving them in a blender.

[Wendy]

Northern Jane "Are men weird?" is a rhetorical question!  By the way I love your comments!

A man taking female hormone for 8 months probably would qualify as weird and probably would not quality as trasnsitioned.

I am a very competent sensitive guy that has servived many a lay off by surrounding myself with competent, aggressive women with balls. I had one male manager tell me I just had no balls because I do not stand up to the bullies. (Hey maybe this guy was a foutune teller?)  Terri I can totally relate to your stories!

I have also seen high level women that compete in a male dominated world cut 25% of the staff so that they could get their bonus check.   Do you think they would cut the aggressive dominant male or the quiet sensitive male when they reduce their staff?  Would you think it wierd that a genetic woman is acting the same way as the successful alpha male?

Melissa your comments ring home in that I am guilty of not sharing my feelings with my own wife.  Does this change after transition?

Northern Jane I think some women and some men are weird and insensitive.  I also think some people of both sexes are fantastic.

If a weird male liked women sexually before transition will she like them sexually after transition?

[Terri-Gene]

If a weird male liked women sexually before transition will she like them sexually after transition?

Whatever weird is, but in the best scientific tests it seems that what sex one desires is a set item which is natural to the person regardless of which sex the person has been attracted to during thier life span.  Sexual preference doesn't change, though some people may not be discriminate about which sex they have sex with.

Such studies were done with girls and boys during childhood and beyond to determine how sexual preference develops and settles on.  Transsexuals can seem a little prone to either, both or just one, but in the case of transsexuals there are a lot of factors to filter in.  Though they may have been totally heterosexual before transition, some may seem to turn bisexual or homosexual after transition, but in many, that can be traced to environment and the desire to blend it.

Actually though, you might be a bit surprised at how many MtF Transsexuals are totally attracted to only women after transsition.  There are many who would rather strangle a man then sleep with him.  Keep an eye out, you'll see a couple or few of that type right here on Susans. 

Terri

[rana]

While this thread was addressed to transitioned Women, I feel compelled to comment here.  In truth I am a man & always will be, I recognise I have a feminine aspect and would dearly love to express it - but not all the time (by that I mean going in public as rana, mentally I am always there).  I don't believe anyone can make the statement that men are weird - there are certainly weird people about, the world seems to swarm with ignorant insensitive simple people - both men and women.
Reading back through earlier posts I guess some comments were made "toungue in cheek"

I have just been out fishing with my son & some of his friends - I would reckon that these young males would fit the stereotypes so perfectly, yet that is just one aspect of them, I know them and have known them since they were little children, and know that there is much more too them than roles they may play from time to time.

macho is a term I think is used so wrongly these days - as I understand it, its an exercise in irony, originally a latino term meaning outward culturally identified (but often misidentified) aspects of manliness but ignoring the inner qualities.

Some inner qualities of manliness I see as a sense of humour, grace under pressure, self sacrifice, defense of the weak & helpless and true heroism. Funny thing I see these as inner qualities of womenliness also     And, those qualities I believe are held by my son & his mates.

So strutting simple macho "Neanderthals" are not really manly at all.  Or if you see somebody who appears to be maybe you are reading them wrongly?

Geez this rant seems a bit disjointed but I will post it anyway, I am feeling a bit down tonight & sadly there are aspects of this thread that magnify my unhappyness

rana

[Kimberly]

'macho' actually never entered into my definition. It's the likes and dislikes and actions... Yup, weird things. Some of the things I like/do you may be hard pressed to not find weird. Such as it goes.

By the by, "weird" does not mean bad, just different.

[Cassandra]

I don't think men are wierd. Predictable, yes. Somewhat useful from time to time. They make lousy pets. They can be cute and sometimes very charming. Housebreaking can be a real pain. Training them takes way too much time and effort. Allright I was going to say some nice things but I guess I just can't help myself.  >

Cassie

[Victoria L.]

I've never understood men, even supposedly "being one" I still don't understand them...

[Sheila]

I have a problem with men and yet I get along with trans people. This is a problem about my childhood and how the adult men would treat me. So, i grew up not likeing men. I took on, what was considered a mans job in the sixties, a job that I had to relate to men, sometimes in a physical way. I got as high in that field that I wanted to go and I'm still healthy. I still don't like men and just as soon not ever be around any. Am I a lesbian now? I don't know, probably.
Sheila

[DawnL]

Unfortunately, I have a similar history and was treated badly by men as a child.  I tend to be suspicious and think the worst of men unless they prove me wrong.  Having lived among them, I am still surprised to discover how clumsy and insensitive many of them are.  I find men who have a strong sense of entitlement (alpha males) particularly difficult to tolerate.

Dawn

[Shelley]

Having lived among them, I am still surprised to discover how clumsy and insensitive many of them are.  I find men who have a strong sense of entitlement (alpha males) particularly difficult to tolerate.

I have to agree totally Dawn and I couldn't have put it better.

Shelley

[Leigh]

Read the book Clan of the Cave Bear by Jean Aurel.

I believe this is a pretty good guesstimate of the structure of what passed for society then and is a reflection of why it to this day it is similiar.

Leigh

[Shelley]

I've got that one just haven't got round to reading it yet. Is it good.

Shelley

[DawnL]

Read the book Clan of the Cave Bear by Jean Aurel.
I believe this is a pretty good guesstimate of the structure of what passed for society then and is a reflection of why it to this day it is similiar.

I read the series many years ago and this book (the first) was the best.  I agree that early society was probably similar to her depiction in the book.  I have read books like this with strong female characters since childhood (Laura Ingalls Wilder etc) and always identified with the female which was how I then managed my dysphoria (hope that makes sense).  Never did read Tom Sawyer and similar books and never had the interest. 

Dawn