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Useless hormones: Where is the feminization?

Started by galaxy, July 02, 2014, 04:46:45 AM

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Miyuki

Quote from: galaxy on July 02, 2014, 06:21:55 AM
Thats all so hopeless  :'(
I think my body isnt born to become a female being.

Is an orchiectomy not an option? Or even SRS if you feel like thats what you want? Don't give up hope. I know it's incredibly frustrating to want things to happen overnight and then end up waiting for years, but the truth is sometimes it really does take that long to get the full results from HRT. Especially if you are starting it later in life. Personally, my philosophy is, I am going to have a feminine body no matter what it takes. Even if it takes ten years of HRT, thousands of dollars in surgery and other procedures, or (yes I have seriously considered this) freezing my body until medical science can give me the body I want, I am going to get there somehow. But, I have some pretty serious dysphoria issues, so yea... Anyway, sometimes it helps to just have achievable goals your can work toward to keep yourself focused and to not get too depressed about the things you can't change. Right now my next big goal is to get an orchiectomy (which I am close to) and after that it will probably be voice surgery (my voice is already the most passable thing about me, but it just gets too strained the way I currently use it and I'm worried I may damage my vocal chords in the long term if I don't get it). Is there anything you think you could work towards that might make you feel better about things while you give HRT time to work?

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on July 02, 2014, 06:48:46 AM
I would see if they will give you sublingual pills. The risk of DVT is much less and sublingual is effective. I am just not a big fan of gels, but like Mel said it is a good booster. :)

Yea, I didn't get much of a result with gel either. I was only using it when I was on low dose HRT and wasn't really ready for major body changes to start happening, so in that sense it worked well for me. But as soon as I went full dose I switched to patches, and I would like to eventually switch to pellets since I have heard so many good things.
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galaxy

I plan my SRS in the fall of 2015. Do you think it will solve any of my problems?
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Jessica Merriman

You will not have testicles after SRS which just means you will not need an anti androgen, but other than that no. You have to find a better delivery or dosage for "E" that will feminize you.
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Miyuki

I think that if it allows you to stop taking Androcur it should help, but as Jessica said you should also look for a more effective method of taking estrogen because using gel is probably also limiting your progress.
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galaxy

What is the option to Androcur?
As i said Spiro was to mild. My SHBG is mostly under 20 nmol/l, so i get to much free androgens without a good blocker.

What is the option to gel?
I tried patches over a few month and felt no better effect. Actually i use PILL + GEL. Should i try to use pills only? Injections are not available here.
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Miyuki

Quote from: galaxy on July 02, 2014, 08:11:59 AM
What is the option to Androcur?
As i said Spiro was to mild. My SHBG is mostly under 20 nmol/l, so i get to much free androgens without a good blocker.

GNRH agonists would be one option, but they are rarely used for transgender HRT due to the cost. There are other options, but I have only really researched Androcur and spiro since those are the medications I have taken, and I don't think the alternatives would work as well as Androcur for controlling your androgen levels anyway. Honestly, I think you may just want to be patient and stay on Androcur until you are able to have SRS.

Quote from: galaxy on July 02, 2014, 08:11:59 AM
What is the option to gel?
I tried patches over a few month and felt no better effect. Actually i use PILL + GEL. Should i try to use pills only? Injections are not available here.

A month isn't really giving the patch a fair chance. Any noticeable changes from HRT would take much longer than a month to become apparent. And you would also need to make sure the dose your were getting on the patch was high enough, since dosage can make a big difference in terms of effectiveness. You could try just taking pills, but I don't really think that is the best approach. Pills are also known to be one of the less effective methods of HRT, and they can be dangerous too, with the risk of blood clotting and DVT. You can take them sublingually, which reduces the risks and increases their potency somewhat, but also makes your levels much less stable which can lead to emotional instability. Patches/injections/pellets seem to be the methods of HRT that get the best results, but even then, it varies a lot and there are no guarantees. If I were you, I would try the patches again (maybe at a higher dose?) while you wait for SRS, and also look into pellets and see if they are available in your area.
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galaxy

Here in germany about 80% take estradiol gel - this is the prefered methode from doctors. I know many people are satisfied with the gel. My blood level on the other hand is really good with 100pg/ml after 8 hours. I mean - there is enough E2 in the blood.

Patches are really rare. I had it about a few month - a few, not 1 only month. I think its nearly the same effect as the gel and the estradiol must go thorugh the skin. Thats may the reason, dont know. Injections and pellets are not available here - ive to buy in other countries and this could be very difficult it think. Maybe i could injections in a few weeks via a friend of mine. I'm not sure ... but the only option is pill or gel/patch at the moment.
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Miyuki

Quote from: galaxy on July 02, 2014, 09:04:58 AM
Here in germany about 80% take estradiol gel - this is the prefered methode from doctors. I know many people are satisfied with the gel. My blood level on the other hand is really good with 100pg/ml after 8 hours. I mean - there is enough E2 in the blood.

You know, so much of the evidence is about effectiveness is anecdotal, and there isn't enough good research for anyone to say for sure what will be the most effective form of HRT for someone. All you can say for sure is that if something isn't effective, it may be worth it to at least try the alternatives. Levels aren't the only factor, because sometimes the way your levels change over time can have a significant impact on how your body responds to hormones. Estrogen levels with pills/gel are not very stable, which I think can confuse the body and inhibit certain changes (not based on actual scientific research, just my theory). With patches estrogen levels should stay relatively stable, and with injections the levels will drop over time, but on a much longer time scale (somewhat like a natural menstrual cycle, but shorter). What your body will respond to best is difficult to say without actually trying it.

Quote from: galaxy on July 02, 2014, 09:04:58 AM
Patches are really rare. I had it about a few month - a few, not 1 only month. I think its nearly the same effect as the gel and the estradiol must go thorugh the skin. Thats may the reason, dont know. Injections and pellets are not available here - ive to buy in other countries and this could be very difficult it think. Maybe i could injections in a few weeks via a friend of mine. I'm not sure ... but the only option is pill or gel/patch at the moment.

Is your friend properly trained to do this sort of injection? I would be extremely cautious of doing something like this without proper medical supervision. I know you want to get the best results possible with HRT, but injections can be seriously dangerous if not done correctly, and it's just not something worth risking your life over.
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Hikari

Quote from: galaxy on July 02, 2014, 06:21:55 AM
I'm talked to my doctor to get Bicalutamid or as second choice Enantone. Its all offlabel and he needs time to decide it.

I know the things and (bad) stories about CPA and over the 17 month its a only thing with a little result. With CPA my body hair reduced and my hair on the head growed better.  i got a to high prolactine, but the little results go back, too. At the moment CPA is my only possibility.

Thats all so hopeless  :'(
I think my body isnt born to become a female being.

I am on bicalutamide I find it much more effective than spiro. I cannot compare it to CPA because I have never be on that. I would think that if CPA has reduced body hair and such that it is doing its job and blocking Testosterone. I wonder if your metabolism is high enough to simply need a larger than average level of estradiol.
15 years on Susans, where has all the time gone?
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galaxy

Thanks for that advice. I would prefer Bicalutamid.
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Elyra

I don't really have any good suggestions or anything, but I wanted to let you know you're not alone. I'm currently at 10 months of HRT and aside from a bit softer skin and minimal breast growth, nothing much has happened with my body. It's hard to keep going with so little progress, and I get especially demotivated from seeing how far my trans sisters have come in a much shorter period of time. Looking into a mirror just ruins my day. My levels are, like your, also fine, so technically there's nothing wrong, but yet nothing is happening. I am on Spiro and Progynova.
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Jessica Merriman

 :police: Just a reminder that no dosages are allowed in postings under the TOS. :police:
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HelloKitty

Suprefact is the best of the best for t-blocker and way safer than cyproterone.

I have been on Spironolactone, Cyproterone and now Suprefact.

Nothing compares to the Suprefact, at least for me (active ingrediant is Buserelin).
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Sybil

I also have had poor luck with estrogen. I'm age 28, but started in my early-mid 20s. No major decrease in body hair (hair shafts are a bit thinner), I did have great skin results, body shape changed only slightly, no fat redistribution but some minor gains on my thighs. Unimpressive breasts, maybe a B cup, but borderline. My face is still unpassable, though I am well on my way to FFS. My muscles shrank down, but it took years. My estrogen level is 158 pg/ml (506 pmol/L) and my testosterone level is 30. These are really good numbers for the average adult female.

Some times, we have poor luck -- or at least, that's how we define it. I think people expect far too much from HRT, seeing great results from other people. Those other people usually had great bone structure to begin with and/or had good luck with hair/breast genetics. They have also been on HRT for a long time, in many cases, where the body looks great -- it can take around 10 years before your bones soften a bit and muscles completely atrophy, though there are significant gains in the first few three or four years.

The consistently major change from HRT for people seems to be skin softness and complexion. Which, frankly, is probably the most important thing -- it's a huge, huge gender marker. Body shape and fat distribution can be helped a bit with exercise. Body hair can be removed. Breast implants are not terribly expensive, compared to most surgeries. Facial feminization surgery is an option if you have a way to save money.

I really do know your pain, but it helps tremendously to be open to the idea that more work comes after HRT. It does for the vast majority of trans women. It took me about four years before I really felt like HRT had put a dent in my body. It takes time, very, very frustrating time. I promise, you are not alone -- and it can get better with a bit of hard work. Please give it a bit more time and consider working towards extra solutions before you completely give up.
Why do I always write such incredibly long posts?
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Katherine

hrt is different for each of us.  Our meds will vary based on our genetics and other physiological differences.  You should really see a doctor who specializes in transgender patients to determine what quantity of meds, and which meds, will work best with your body.  Anytime someone tells you what dosages you should use are simply basing that information on what is working for them or very generic info on what seems to work in general for something close to a majority.  Thing is, your meds have a recommended dosage which should be followed for a few months, after which time you may decide to deviate based on results.  It is, however, wise to get medical tests to determine changes and levels of changes in your body chemistry, which can be used to better determine what quantity of specific drugs will work best for you.
Always running away from myself...
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galaxy

Quote from: Elyra on July 02, 2014, 04:12:55 PM
Looking into a mirror just ruins my day. My levels are, like your, also fine, so technically there's nothing wrong, but yet nothing is happening.

Thats the whole thing. You wake up, look in the mirror and the day is ruined. Same procdedure every day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. That hunts you, brokes your soul and your heart for that long time. You see the results of woman startet at the same time with you and they have breasts after a year, a A cup, a B cup - a nice body, a nice face, long hair ... and i? Ive nothing. Today i had a talk to my surgeon for my augmentation. I never dreamed of that and now i will get implants  :-\


Quote from: Sybil on July 02, 2014, 10:12:12 PM
I really do know your pain, but it helps tremendously to be open to the idea that more work comes after HRT. It does for the vast majority of trans women. It took me about four years before I really felt like HRT had put a dent in my body. It takes time, very, very frustrating time. I promise, you are not alone -- and it can get better with a bit of hard work. Please give it a bit more time and consider working towards extra solutions before you completely give up.

Of course, it took a lot of time and i'm able to wait ... for results, but its frustraiting to wait for nothing. Times goes by and nothing happens, not today and not in 10 years. This fact dominates my whole transition since startet HRT. Ive really strong suicide tendencies, a attempt a few weeks ago ... i dont can waste my time for waiting for any utopian things, you know. I will took my money and "repair" these things i can finance. Thats all i can do and i dont know if it will satisfy my pain.
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