Confused again. Doesn't "passing" equate "stealth"?

[luna nyan]

O.o

So much in this thread... Late to arrive as always.
Summary in my head:
1.  Passing = looking like a duck! walking like a duck! Sound like a duck!  So you are a duck!
2.  Stealth = no one knows the duck was a frog before.
3.  Degrees of stealth = how much of the pond you grew up in is destroyed.  The lily pad or the pond itself...  Not so easy to destroy the pond as a frog yah?

And then there is the reverse stealth - feel like a duck, can look, walk, and sound like a duck, but you still act like a frog anyway (or pretend to...)

Anything more to add?

[Susan522]

So much here is based on personal POV.  Nothing wrong with that.  How could it be any other way?  The original question, does passing "equate" to stealth, is sufficiently vague and ill defined as to engender pretty much what has ensued.

My own take on this will probably not make much sense to most of since my POV comes from what is essentially a totally foreign school thought.  I guess what I am saying is that I am not really comfortable with the label "trans*".  I did not go through my own personal hell to be anything other than just an ordinary woman. 

I suppose that my experience  would only apply to the young in that as noted in a previous comment, "....I also feel like sometimes there is a bit of... distance or failure of communication between generations on this one. For a young transitioner, stealth is a lot more tempting. You aren't established in your profession, you don't have a lot of history, you are more likely to be up for moving cities, you don't have kids or a long term relationship to deal with, and your chances of being passable are really high. You are also less likely to have the financial security to insulate yourself from some of the discrimination or violence, so being stealth becomes a method of self-defense."

Conversely, whereas an older transitioner might not have those potential advantages, it could easily be expected that they would find another method of "self-defense".

[Lady_Oracle]

O.o

So much in this thread... Late to arrive as always.
Summary in my head:
1.  Passing = looking like a duck! walking like a duck! Sound like a duck!  So you are a duck!
2.  Stealth = no one knows the duck was a frog before.
3.  Degrees of stealth = how much of the pond you grew up in is destroyed.  The lily pad or the pond itself...  Not so easy to destroy the pond as a frog yah?

And then there is the reverse stealth - feel like a duck, can look, walk, and sound like a duck, but you still act like a frog anyway (or pretend to...)

Anything more to add?

nice!!!!!!! Love this post

[Evelyn K]

O.o

So much in this thread... Late to arrive as always.
Summary in my head:
1.  Passing = looking like a duck! walking like a duck! Sound like a duck!  So you are a duck!
2.  Stealth = no one knows the duck was a frog before.
3.  Degrees of stealth = how much of the pond you grew up in is destroyed.  The lily pad or the pond itself...  Not so easy to destroy the pond as a frog yah?

And then there is the reverse stealth - feel like a duck, can look, walk, and sound like a duck, but you still act like a frog anyway (or pretend to...)

Anything more to add?

I like the cut of this jibe. Brilliant! I actually account for the frog behavior, a-lot... But I can't help myself, I don't feel like a girly girly gurl. But I love my outward appearance.

So I got to thinking about the reply's in here. What do you peeps think about this,

Beautiful women are constantly reminded of their beauty in many different ways. They don't need to affirm anything to themselves because it's done for them, and they'll spend time thinking about other things like how deep that particular gentleman's pockets are. She is "living" and not "coping".

Passing privilege is also a type of beauty, a level thereof. A transwoman who has passing privilege isn't constantly consumed with trying to pass and is also reminded of their "passing" in many different ways. That privilege also free's her up to think about other things, like being a regular normal gal. So she's also "living" and not "coping".

I really think achieving passing privilege is the holy grail of transsexualism. Being beautiful is just icing on the cake.

[Ducks]

I really think achieving passing privilege is the holy grail of transsexualism. Being beautiful is just icing on the cake.

It is far easier to pass as an ugly woman than a beautiful one.  I think beauty and passing are orthogonal. 

I do think passing is the grail of transsexualism, but not of ->-bleeped-<-. 

[Lady_Oracle]

well I fully pass, and get lots of compliments for my looks/physique but idk, I still struggle with bottom dysphoria. I don't have many friends and part of the reason why is cause I'm just paranoid of my surroundings due to where I live. I have a new found attraction to guys but it's not something I'm willing to explore cause of the potential danger that has. So for the time being I'm just continuing to work on myself and still identify as a lesbian since despite my new attraction to guys, I can't see myself being in a relationship with one.

I really wish there were more young transitioners like me in my area, then I probably would have an actual close group of friends. Or even dating another trans woman would be awesome and I could finally feel comfy enough about being intimate. I'm still a virgin at 24 and its all thanks to my dysphoria. I crave human touch right now but I'm not seeking it out. I'm sure in time as I put myself out there more, I'll find someone.

Yea I'd say I'm not coping anymore and living for the first time ever in my life finally and that's thanks to passing. But it just presents a whole new host of problems to deal with, that's life I guess, it's never easy. And no I have not once thought of being a gold digger lololol. I think that's a crazy mentality to have imo. But I do understand the struggles of not passing, I put it in a ton of work and then some to be where I' am with my body. Was training my voice for almost 3 years till I finally achieved my female voice, hours upon hours spent on perfecting my presentation. I presented female prehrt when I didn't pass a 100% and after hrt when I still wasn't passing. You have to go into that IDGAF mode to gain that shred of confidence that makes all the difference in the world. It was really hard but it was the worth experience.

The only huge step left in my transition is srs, which might be happening in the next 2 years if things go right. My dad is doing all he can at his work so they can cover it, right now we're waiting to hear back from his HR department.

[Evelyn K]

from: Natalie on Yesterday at 09:24:20 pm

    It's logical, even when one does not actively think about it they still have done and will do things that aide them in keeping themselves "stealth."

Sure everyone has a bit of insecurity, that's a given, probably about as much as other cis gals who are insecure about the stealthiness of their fat arses.

But you seem to be making a huge leap to think that somehow being a transwoman who passes has an underlying insecurity that's monopolizing their thoughts to the point of personal affliction. Passing privilege is a *huge relief* for the transwoman.

    Your statement is essentially self-refuting because it implies its own falsity. The fact that one shares information on a "need to know basis" is done because there are certain things they do not want to reveal which equates to putting in some type of effort, however small, into making sure they stay stealth. They do not need to actively think about it 24\7 especially once they have their routine down.

This doesn't make sense. Just because somebody isn't asking me if I used to be a cat doesn't mean it's a thing in the back of my mind I'm continuously putting an effort not to reveal.

    Your last statement is also inherently false because you are claiming that if one believes something enough then it becomes true. Delusions do not always result in reality. Fact is, people might describe themselves differently depending on whether the question they are asked implies situational specificity or not, but your position here is claiming that who anyone is as a person is dependent on how others treat them in society. The simple fact of being a transgender person refutes this erroneous claim because we all suffer strain because of how people adversely treat us because of our transgender status. I cannot "make" my transsexualism go away no matter how much I delude myself into believing that I am not a transsexual person.

    Then again, I don't fixate on whether or not I pass in society because I truly don't care what other insignificant people think about me, but to claim passing is a "privilege" that enables someone to magically advert all this other stuff is probably...that's down right hilarious!

If you are passing in spades, your risk of random violence is about as much as the next cis woman...

bUMp for NataliEEEeE!

[Miss_Bungle1991]

Anything more to add?

*Points at her avatar* I'm obviously not a duck.