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Oral Hormones (Pills) vs. Trans dermal Patch

Started by Fae, August 02, 2007, 12:26:23 AM

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daisybelle

Has anyone tried the Estrogel?  http://www.estrogel.com/

Seems since this is transdermal it has the advantages of the patch...  with out worrying about the falling off or the adhesive residue left behind.
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Holly31

Yes I have, and it works great. I have had the same results on the patch as gel . Doc put me on pills at first, but I didn't like taking all those things, and worried about my liver. Then I switched to the patch. Better than pills as far as ease of use. They did give me a rash, and dried out my skin where the patch was. Moved to the gel same blood tests results as the patch, and easier to use.
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Jolene4ever

No one has mentioned the Estrodial 17b in gel form. I have been using it for about a year and find it to be the best for me. I can't use the pill and the patches kept falling off. Yes it is more expensive but to me the expense is worth it. Jolene
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Berliegh

Quote from: Fae on August 02, 2007, 12:26:23 AM
I was watching a show not too long ago on the Discovery Channel, I think it was titled "Changing Sexes."  The program interviewed several transgendered individuals, all at various stages of their transition, and the program even had Dr. Marcy Bowers on it (she's a top SRS surgeon in the mid-west).

One of the girls interviewed had been on high doses of HRT (administered orally) for so long that she ended up in the hospital because of health complications (her body was shutting down or something).  She had to stop HRT for several months before she was healthy enough for HRT again.  This time she recieved her hormones through a trans dermal patch.  The program said that orally administered hormones are rendered 90% ineffective once they pass through the liver, but with a trans dermal patch the hormones go right into the bloodstream and are much safer to take than pills.

Can anyone else verify this?  I am considering seeking this option if it is more cost-effective that oral hormones (effects are faster which means less patches, versus pills that are 90% ineffective once ingested). 

~Fae
Fae, I think that's a cert....I've been on oral hormones for 7 years and they haven't worked. I haven't got any fat re-distribution, no hips and very little breast tissue. I am now trying different things and patches is one of them. You are right when you say the liver breaks them down and makes them 90% ineffective....

In the U.K injectable hormones are sometimes illegal but Might also be much better than oral pills....how can I get them? 

Also can someone give me advice on what HRT patches are available, especially in the U.K?
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lisagurl

Effectiveness depends on comparing the blood tests not the results. Mileage can very depending on your physical makeup. No matter what the delivery system you should have a target hormone level you want in the blood. Doctors very on this amount. The same level can have profound different effect on the individual. For a preop typically one patch will not give the levels you need for transition. Just like one 2mg estradiol pill will not. 4 or 5 pills deliver in the blood as much as 4 or 5 patches. However that many patches become difficult to manage. Yes the pills have much more of hormone that is lost in the liver but in the end, it is about the same added to the blood. If you take the pill sublingually the amount in the blood will be much greater.
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Dora

Quote from: Ashley Michelle on September 01, 2007, 12:03:20 PM
Quote from: lisagurl on September 01, 2007, 11:22:07 AM
From the drug data sheet and lab tests, one weekly .1 patch is about equal to 2mg of estradiol taken every day. Over the week the patch varies 50% in how much drug gets into the blood.

i have heard to change them every 3-4 days?

According to the TS Roadmap web site, once per week. My doctor agrees.

I have problems with them falling off after a couple of days.  I have found the Johnson & Johnson Paper Tape to be a cheap and effective solution to keep the patches in place.

Dora
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Lisbeth

Quote from: Dora on September 08, 2007, 12:22:40 PM
Quote from: Ashley Michelle on September 01, 2007, 12:03:20 PM
Quote from: lisagurl on September 01, 2007, 11:22:07 AM
From the drug data sheet and lab tests, one weekly .1 patch is about equal to 2mg of estradiol taken every day. Over the week the patch varies 50% in how much drug gets into the blood.
i have heard to change them every 3-4 days?
According to the TS Roadmap web site, once per week. My doctor agrees.
Once again, there are three different kinds of patches: once a week, twice a week, and once a day.
"Anyone who attempts to play the 'real transsexual' card should be summarily dismissed, as they are merely engaging in name calling rather than serious debate."
--Julia Serano

http://juliaserano.blogspot.com/2011/09/transsexual-versus-transgender.html
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Sheila

I have been doing patches for over 3 years and haven't missed one yet. I do vivelle/estrodot. I have the strongest one they have and that is all I use. It seems to be all right. I have high cholesterol and have to take medications for my fatty blood so I wanted to releave some of the pressure off my liver by doing the patch. I was taking prometrium but stopped just 2 weeks ago. Dr. want to see what that will do, she seems to think I don't need it.
Sheila
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Sheila

Its two a week, one after 3 days then another after 4 days. On the 4th day, I'm a little cranky. That is day would be wednesday.
Sheila
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Berliegh

Pills never worked on me in 7 or 8 years so now I'm trying patches.......the first one I put on the other week I started to lactate which I've never done before, so my guess is they are miles better...
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shanetastic

So is there any specific better way for the intake of estrogen?  From what it sounds like patches are better than everything is what people are saying.  Well patches and injections over pills any day.  Is my doctor doing it the obsolete way by giving me pills?
trying to live life one day at a time
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louise000

Quote from: shanetastic on September 18, 2007, 12:25:35 AM
So is there any specific better way for the intake of estrogen?  From what it sounds like patches are better than everything is what people are saying.  Well patches and injections over pills any day.  Is my doctor doing it the obsolete way by giving me pills?

I'm no authority on this, but I believe precribing transdermal patches is the preferred option for older people or for anyone with an increased risk of clotting or with a family history of cardovascular problems, because the medication gets into the bloodstream without passing through other organs. Someone far more knowledgeable than me will be able to explain it better - where's Keira?!  :)
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Keira


Its preferred in older patients because of doctor conservatism more than anything else, because most people under 60, don't have significant risks using sublingual orals at at the lower dosage often prescribed to older TS patients (again conservatism).

Of course, if you have a conditions favorable to a stroke, have smoked a long time, liver problems, genetic predisposition to clotting (like leyden), injection or transdermals are preferred.

Injections are much cheaper than transdermals and in theorie have the same advantages, but tend to lead to spiking in the serum level of E, so even though it goes to the blood, its not used in older individuals (over 50) generally.
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Berliegh

Quote from: Kiera on September 19, 2007, 04:08:27 PM
LOL! Well, I'm over 50 and I vote the estrofem dial pack (for all reasons stated above). Been taking for almost 11 months now and I keep open "click" packs at home, in my luggage as well as in my car but definitely not on my person! I work a very active, strenuous  . . . ok, ok, sweaty job and 1) I cannot have a patch on me to fall off or worse yet 2) somebody asking me "what's that for"? The dosing is very level because I have yet to skip a beat (I like the daily routine/reminder of who I truly am with no mood swings) and combined with a powerful anti antigen "this 'ole lady" is very happy with her results so far . . . 

Can't tell ya how many times SO has accusingly asked "have you taken your meds today?" & threatened to "pitch em" but she hasn't actually done so yet!  ;)

Can I have that money you promised for electrolysis dear?  ::)

:icon_bunch:

hormones don't work on everyone no matter how many you've tried. Both myself and my friend who is the same age as me has been on them and anti - androgens for 13 years and she hasn't got any female fat distribution either.....

I too started on Estrofem in 1998 and then onto ethinyestrodial, premarin, progynova, Zoladex, androcur etc.....nothing works on me no matter what doses or hormones. I have no hip size or changes whatsoever. I believe this is common in transsexuals and I have met many who seem to be the same and have no female fat distribution even though some think they do. I'd love to see body picture's of anyone who has proper female fat distribution? 

My endocrinologist gave up on both myself and my friend and more or less said 'you are both over 40 now and to be honest we've tried everything and nothing else is going to work'.....not what we wanted to hear but probably as truthful as someone could get...
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Kate

#34
Quote from: Berliegh on September 19, 2007, 05:58:47 PM
I have no hip size or changes whatsoever. I believe this is common in transsexuals...

As far as I know, women's hips come mostly from wider pelvic bones for giving birth, and NOT fat. Although, the upper thighs get fatter which gives a similar effect.

Yes, my rear, thighs and breasts gained fat. I'm not imagining it. My arms are different. My face is different.

QuoteMy endocrinologist gave up on both myself and my friend and more or less said 'you are both over 40 now...

I think the age thing is a bit of an urban myth. The women in my support group all started HRT in their late 40s or 50s, and all of them look great... meaning female.

It's curious that both you and your friend are seeing no changes, and you're both seeing the same endo. Maybe try someone new?

~Kate~
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Keira



Always had good hips (not fat, just my bones), and now my waist is down to 26.5, hips 38

Its the smaller waist, 32 -> 26.5 that makes me look more female, actually lost 2 inches around the hips. I've lost 25 pounds in the last 8 months. 185 -> 160.

I'm 40 (in 1 month).














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NickSister

Gosh, you look great Keira. I hope I look half as good at 40. Though now that I think about it I am not all that far away from 40 myself...
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Berliegh

Keira, you have a very similar bodyshape to me.....but you look a bit fitter. Like me you also have a very small bust and larger upper body mass compared to lower body mass.....

I really appreciate you posting the pics. I'll also try and post mine as soon as I can........



Posted on: September 20, 2007, 11:53:35 AM
Quote from: Kate on September 19, 2007, 07:52:48 PM
As far as I know, women's hips come mostly from wider pelvic bones for giving birth, and NOT fat. Although, the upper thighs get fatter which gives a similar effect.

Yes, my rear, thighs and breasts gained fat. I'm not imagining it. My arms are different. My face is different.

I think the age thing is a bit of an urban myth. The women in my support group all started HRT in their late 40s or 50s, and all of them look great... meaning female.

It's curious that both you and your friend are seeing no changes, and you're both seeing the same endo. Maybe try someone new?

~Kate~

Age is usually important as a 13 year old boy starting on HRT would develop hips and their pelvis would change as they would not have reached puberty.  Once past puberty it's very hard to eradicate male type fat distribution even after excessive hormone therapy. Obviously if you had an endomophic bodyshape as a male it will appear you have better fat distribution as a female but generally most transsexuals I've seen are thin and have a completely different bodyshape to women. My sister for instance is the same height (5' 7") and age as me yet she looks completely different. Her hips and butt are huge in comparison and I am completely aware of the differences at first hand.

Both my friend and I have seen different endicrinologists over the years and most come to the same concusions if they are honest and thruthful. 
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louise000

Quote from: Berliegh on September 20, 2007, 12:02:23 PM
Keira, you have a very similar bodyshape to me.....

And me....and I'm fit too, but obviously no boobs....yet!
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Karla B

Yes, Keira You look great.  Congratulations on the weight loss. Well done.
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