Please be careful when responding to brand new members

[suzifrommd]

Recently, I observed a brand new member of this site being given a very hard time by longtime site members for asking an honest question. This really bothered me, and brought back memories of a traumatic night. When I first was questioning my gender, and I had no idea what might be wrong with me, I ventured a timid post on Susan's asking whether people thought I belonged.

One of the very first replies came from someone who told me they were uncomfortable having me post here, because it appeared I was "cisgender". I didn't know what that meant, so I promised to look it up, and if I thought it fit, I would accommodate their wishes and not return. When I learned what it meant, I decided I clearly did not belong here, and that I wouldn't bother the members of Susan's with any further posts.

I almost didn't come back.

Can you imagine where I'd be today if I hadn't? But after a mostly sleepless night spent upset that I hadn't found a safe place to talk about what was eating me, I awoke early and had a few extra minutes in the morning. My computer was already logged on, so I decided to check my thread one more time. There was one more post, strongly disagreeing with the member who thought I didn't belong here. That was enough for me to stay for one more day, which produced a parade of people welcoming me to the site.

My point is that when someone joins this site, they are in a very delicate place. If we start picking apart their language or use their thread to perpetuate a feud with other members, we can EASILY drive someone away who desperately needs us.

So please, please, PLEASE, be gentle with new members. Please answer their posts with sensitivity and empathy. Please understand that they are often hanging on our every word and that we might be providing the only support, support someone desperately needs.

[Myarkstir]

Very good advice... 

[Arch]

I fear that this plea will be lost on those who need to hear it most...but it bears repeating from time to time.

Folks, if you ever see people giving a new member a hard time, please do report it immediately. Better to be too sensitive and let the mods dismiss it than to second-guess yourself and say, "Ah, I'm making too much of this; it will be all right."

[mrs izzy]

Great topic. Well thought out heart felt message from Suzi.

As Arch said we try and catch all the posts but there are times we need the forum members help.

No report we get is a wasted report.

As said look back on your first day to Susan's. Then ask why am i still here?

Safe journey on your life's path

[King Malachite]

I understand where you are coming from, but at the same time, I personally feel like the other member's thoughts and feelings shouldn't be swept aside because a person is new.  I remember about a little over a year ago we had a new member to come in and asked the guys "so why do you want to be men?".  Of course, some of the guys, including myself didn't like the wording of that question, or the details inside, so naturally, me and another guy expressed our feelings and responded to this person, only to have what we said deleted and a "watch" signal near us (or him at least).  I had a mod imply to me that I took the thread as a personal attack, which I didn't (but I had to "prove" that).  Long story short, they saw my side of the story but disagreed, and my post was put back, but the thread was deleted hours later anyways.  Let me add that we had a new poster that asked the exact same thing a month ago and their thread as immediately deleted as they were more or less deemed a troll.

What I'm trying to say is that I think there should be a balance.  Users shouldn't go out of their way to pick apart someone who is new, but I do think they should be able to make their feelings clear (in a professional manner without resorting to personal attacks) without fear of being reprimanded by the mods or even other members.  I know when I got that private message, I just felt like crap, not because of what I said to that person, but because I actually felt belittled.....like my feelings didn't matter because I wasn't a new person.  I think a healthy dialogue from contrasting opinions is fine as long as it's not done with malice aforethought towards the individual.

[Hikari]

I know I was brittle when I was new here, I was in a dark place and it wouldn't have took too much to push me into hurting myself. I am very thankful everyone was very supportive....

The point is don't let someone's ignorance get the better of you, educate them and enrich the both of you.

[Arch]

Malachite brings up a good point, but we should all bear in mind that apparent non-trans newbies who come across as ignorant and offensive should be reported, not responded to with anger or venom. It is perfectly fine to be assertive as long as you also try to be polite. That can be a tough line to walk (how well I know), but if you are angry or feel disrespected, you are often better off waiting for a bit before replying.

If the person still insists on being what we would consider disrespectful, they will be dealt with pretty swiftly by the mods IF the posts are reported. If they are not, the situation can quickly escalate, and then nobody's happy.

[AnonyMs]

I fear that this plea will be lost on those who need to hear it most...but it bears repeating from time to time.

I'm not sure sure how these forums work with reputation and people on watch, but perhaps it can be used to help with this problem. Problematic users could be automatically prevented from posting to to threads that are started by new users (say less than 10 posts). It might also give those user some incentive to be more careful.

[Declan.]

I understand where you are coming from, but at the same time, I personally feel like the other member's thoughts and feelings shouldn't be swept aside because a person is new.  I remember about a little over a year ago we had a new member to come in and asked the guys "so why do you want to be men?".  Of course, some of the guys, including myself didn't like the wording of that question, or the details inside, so naturally, me and another guy expressed our feelings and responded to this person, only to have what we said deleted and a "watch" signal near us (or him at least).  I had a mod imply to me that I took the thread as a personal attack, which I didn't (but I had to "prove" that).  Long story short, they saw my side of the story but disagreed, and my post was put back, but the thread was deleted hours later anyways.  Let me add that we had a new poster that asked the exact same thing a month ago and their thread as immediately deleted as they were more or less deemed a troll.

What I'm trying to say is that I think there should be a balance.  Users shouldn't go out of their way to pick apart someone who is new, but I do think they should be able to make their feelings clear (in a professional manner without resorting to personal attacks) without fear of being reprimanded by the mods or even other members.  I know when I got that private message, I just felt like crap, not because of what I said to that person, but because I actually felt belittled.....like my feelings didn't matter because I wasn't a new person.  I think a healthy dialogue from contrasting opinions is fine as long as it's not done with malice aforethought towards the individual.

I agree with you, Malachite. I do understand where some of the people asking for some extra patience and kindness are coming from, but I'm not at all happy about how longtime members were raked over the coals for not responding as sweetly as they could have. When it's someone who needs support because a loved one is transgender, and their post comes off as transphobic or ignorant, I'm gentle. However, someone coming here to post about how they're upset about their partner's fetish for transgender women isn't necessarily going to receive the same careful treatment from me. Maybe that's wrong of me, but what's also wrong is publicly belittling other members for reacting with frustration or even anger. A polite mod comment is more than enough. We deal with enough without having to deal with attacks from each other.

[alabamagirl]

I'm sort of torn on how to respond to this topic. Suzi's original post makes it sound like we're talking about new members who are trans or questioning, in which case I would show nothing but love and support to, even if they came in with a completely misinformed idea of us and used all the wrong terminology and wording.

However, if we are indeed referring to the recent incident Declan alluded to, I really can't understand what was inappropriate about the way some people responded. That person was not trans or questioning and neither was their partner. They also didn't come to our forum to learn about us. They came to us because their partner expressed interest in having sexual relationships with trans women. I found this offensive and still do. I don't understand what support we were supposed to offer this person. Their problem really had nothing to do with us. We are not in some special position to give advice on that sort of thing simply because we are transgender, and we are not marriage counselors. They were also not respectful when asking for advice.

[Phoenix_2812]

I think this is a good, sensible thing to suggest.

I do however have something I'd like to add. I've never been overly fond of the initial post(s) made by mods on topics by new members. It's basically the same thing everytime and not very personal or much of a response to the original poster, as in, giving advice. No offence intended, of course, I just think that if mods are going to post to say "Hi", it would be nice if it was more than just reposting the rules and links to topics about post ranks and when and how new members can change avatars and signatures with a fairly generic welcome message. I'm sorry if this comes across as really negative, it's not my intention. I really like how people are welcoming and understanding towards new members on this forum and would love to see more happily informed new members join our ranks.

[Julia-Madrid]

I've never been overly fond of the initial post(s) made by mods on topics by new members. It's basically the same thing everytime and not very personal or much of a response to the original poster, as in, giving advice.

Hi Phoenix. I don't mind the mods basically saying "Welcome, and these are our rules.  Please obey them right from the start."  They are quite clear, and it is a way of ensuring that imposters or the disruptive know how they shall be treated.  We've all seen examples of both.

Susan's is an extremely high quality forum, in my opinion the best in terms of intelligent debate, community, support and useful information.  (You would cry at the junk we have in Spain, with trolls and heaven knows what else!)   Susan's is a sanctuary for many of us at times, as well as being a place where we have made friends.  I want to maintain the wonderful vibe we have here.   

I find our Mods to be pro-active and measured in how they keep things running smooth and steady.

Hugs to you all - great topic Suzi!

J

[Stochastic]

Susan's is an extremely high quality forum, in my opinion the best in terms of intelligent debate, community, support and useful information.  (You would cry at the junk we have in Spain, with trolls and heaven knows what else!)   Susan's is a sanctuary for many of us at times, as well as being a place where we have made friends.  I want to maintain the wonderful vibe we have here.   

I find our Mods to be pro-active and measured in how they keep things running smooth and steady.

Hugs to you all - great topic Suzi!

J

I agree that the mods and admins do a great job. In my opinion, they are underappreciated for the amount of work that they do. All of us here are faced with challenges that deeply affect us and those around us, so there is always that balance between being open on important topics while ensuring that the negatives of a discussion do not outweigh the positives. I think that balance is found here.

The topic of the OP is a good one in that, in general, those that first come here are those that need the most help and education on the topic. Most likely, they are sensitive to initial responses as well. 

[Ms Grace]

If anyone ever sees someone (new or not) being disrespected or being disrespectful the best course of action is to use the "report" link.

Personally I'd like to see more members posting more "hellos" in the intro thread. The mods do welcome all, and yes we have the stock greeting with links etc, but where possible at least try to add a few personalised comments (not always possible) - however it would be great if more members chimed in too. Even if it was one or two greetings per visit that would result in many more newbies feeling welcome to the space.

[Allyda]

Recently, I observed a brand new member of this site being given a very hard time by longtime site members for asking an honest question. This really bothered me, and brought back memories of a traumatic night. When I first was questioning my gender, and I had no idea what might be wrong with me, I ventured a timid post on Susan's asking whether people thought I belonged.

One of the very first replies came from someone who told me they were uncomfortable having me post here, because it appeared I was "cisgender". I didn't know what that meant, so I promised to look it up, and if I thought it fit, I would accommodate their wishes and not return. When I learned what it meant, I decided I clearly did not belong here, and that I wouldn't bother the members of Susan's with any further posts.

I almost didn't come back.

Can you imagine where I'd be today if I hadn't? But after a mostly sleepless night spent upset that I hadn't found a safe place to talk about what was eating me, I awoke early and had a few extra minutes in the morning. My computer was already logged on, so I decided to check my thread one more time. There was one more post, strongly disagreeing with the member who thought I didn't belong here. That was enough for me to stay for one more day, which produced a parade of people welcoming me to the site.

My point is that when someone joins this site, they are in a very delicate place. If we start picking apart their language or use their thread to perpetuate a feud with other members, we can EASILY drive someone away who desperately needs us.

So please, please, PLEASE, be gentle with new members. Please answer their posts with sensitivity and empathy. Please understand that they are often hanging on our every word and that we might be providing the only support, support someone desperately needs.

I have to second this ^^___^^. During my early days here I was in a very fragile dark place. Luckily for me I was only greeted with loving sympathy and much needed support. And I was lifted out of that place of darkness and despair within a few days. Thank you Suzi for posting this. We all need to remember how fragile we were upon joining this Wonderful community.

Ali

[Jessica Merriman]

However, if we are indeed referring to the recent incident Declan alluded to, I really can't understand what was inappropriate about the way some people responded. That person was not trans or questioning and neither was their partner. They also didn't come to our forum to learn about us. They came to us because their partner expressed interest in having sexual relationships with trans women. I found this offensive and still do. I don't understand what support we were supposed to offer this person. Their problem really had nothing to do with us. We are not in some special position to give advice on that sort of thing simply because we are transgender, and we are not marriage counselors. They were also not respectful when asking for advice.

Report it and remember TOS

7. Leave moderation to the moderators! Susan and her staff are the only people who are authorized to deny anyone access to this web site including telling someone to leave, or to stop discussing a topic.  If someone wishes to discuss a subject that you are not interested in,  suggest a new subject; go to another of the many areas on this site; or ignore that person, topic, or discussion. If you feel a person's post violates the rules of this site use the report this post function.

It is not members responsibility to deal with these situations. It is their duty to report it and let the appropriate steps be taken. A lurker who maybe would have joined could have been scared off by the responses and anger that poster received. If you are offended or triggered, report the post plain and simple. 

[mrs izzy]

I think this is a good, sensible thing to suggest.

I do however have something I'd like to add. I've never been overly fond of the initial post(s) made by mods on topics by new members. It's basically the same thing everytime and not very personal or much of a response to the original poster, as in, giving advice. No offence intended, of course, I just think that if mods are going to post to say "Hi", it would be nice if it was more than just reposting the rules and links to topics about post ranks and when and how new members can change avatars and signatures with a fairly generic welcome message. I'm sorry if this comes across as really negative, it's not my intention. I really like how people are welcoming and understanding towards new members on this forum and would love to see more happily informed new members join our ranks.

Thank you for your comments.

Have to remember for us its there first post or a post they started for us to get them to understand the forum has rules.

Yes its cookie cutter.

For me its striking a balance to a normal welcome to adding comments.

Comes down to information given by the new poster.

Many of us mods also will pop in after the original welcome to offer our welcome along with comments if the can be helpful.

So yes cookie cutter but is greatly needed to help keep this site running with least amount trouble. 

We are always open to suggestions to help make things more user welcome.

Mrs Izzy

[Jessica Merriman]

I do however have something I'd like to add. I've never been overly fond of the initial post(s) made by mods on topics by new members. It's basically the same thing everytime and not very personal or much of a response to the original poster, as in, giving advice.

Do you realize how many people we have join here every day? If we did not cookie cutter the welcomes we would literally have no time for Moderating. This is why we need members to welcome people as well. It is not right that breast topics get pages of replies and introduction post's get one or two REPLIES. Please don't judge us or be upset if you have no idea what all of our duties are. At last count we had close to 20,000 members registered and only 10 Global moderators. See the problem? 

[Blue Senpai]

I just don't respond in those kinds of threads because I know I like to be an animal. I'd love to contribute and make corrections to people's knowledge but I need to pull in the reins every once in a while.

[Jessica Merriman]

I agree with you, Malachite. I do understand where some of the people asking for some extra patience and kindness are coming from, but I'm not at all happy about how longtime members were raked over the coals for not responding as sweetly as they could have. When it's someone who needs support because a loved one is transgender, and their post comes off as transphobic or ignorant, I'm gentle. However, someone coming here to post about how they're upset about their partner's fetish for transgender women isn't necessarily going to receive the same careful treatment from me. Maybe that's wrong of me, but what's also wrong is publicly belittling other members for reacting with frustration or even anger. A polite mod comment is more than enough. We deal with enough without having to deal with attacks from each other.

Report it and remember TOS

7. Leave moderation to the moderators! Susan and her staff are the only people who are authorized to deny anyone access to this web site including telling someone to leave, or to stop discussing a topic.  If someone wishes to discuss a subject that you are not interested in,  suggest a new subject; go to another of the many areas on this site; or ignore that person, topic, or discussion. If you feel a person's post violates the rules of this site use the report this post function.

It is not members responsibility to deal with these situations. It is their duty to report it and let the appropriate steps be taken. A lurker who maybe would have joined could have been scared off by the responses and anger that poster received. If you are offended or triggered, report the post plain and simple.