Anyone notice people thinking they are a delinquent since transition?

[ChrisRokk]

I was just wondering if any of you guys have noticed this since you started transitioning.

Before, if I was out in public, I generally got left alone. These days I am starting to notice people treating me oddly. I get asked for drugs by random strangers every couple of months or so. And yesterday I boarded the bus late at night, and when I walked by a woman she pulled her purse closer to her. Not as in she was moving it off the seat to make a space for me, as the bus was empty, but like she thought I was gonna grab it or something.

I suppose I am grateful that I do not seem to be an obvious target for violence, which is great, but I am not exactly super delighted about being viewed as possibly a perpetrator. Any of y'all have this issue?

[LordKAT]

Welcome to being seen as male.

[blink]

LordKAT is correct. Get ready for a level of suspicion you've never experienced being directed at you before. In general men are seen as potential threats, women are seen as harmless unless they are very clearly up to something.

Not sure what's up with being asked for drugs. Some other factor(s) possibly at work there in combination with being seen as male. People stereotype. Could be mode of dress, taste in grooming, a number of things that they might personally associate with "dude with drug connections". Maybe they're asking random people in hopes of finding someone with connections, before they screw up and ask a cop. Maybe they are a cop.

[Mark3]

Yeah, true comments above.

I notice that, but realized that just as women feel it necessary to maintain a certain image in public to keep safe, that men kind of have to do the same thing, but opposite, we sometimes have to present a non threatening demener in some places. I guess for each person its different, but looking happy, maybe a smile, and not looking to much at others noticeably, probably goes a long way towards looking non threatening..

[Bimmer Guy]

LordKAT is correct. Get ready for a level of suspicion you've never experienced being directed at you before. In general men are seen as potential threats, women are seen as harmless unless they are very clearly up to something.

Yes, I was walking in a city looking for the gender clinic where I was to get assessed to start HRT.  I asked a woman for directions and she held her purse against herself and started moving away.  I actually thought she misunderstood what I was saying (she must have thought I said something threatening, no?), so I said it again, she halfway walked back and then told me.  I guess she figured out I was female by that point?  Her reading me as male wasn't the first thing I thought of because usually when I speak, especially in a consciously "female way", people read me as female.  I felt sort of sad/offended that she would be scared of me.  I wanted to exclaim, "no, no, really, I am a good guy!"

I think maybe it would have made more sense to me if it wasn't a crowded, bright sunny day in the business section of the city.

Anyway, I've talked with black transmen in the U.S. who struggle with people now seeing them as more of a threat than they did when they were read as a black females.  Sucks.

[Brenda E]

Welcome to being seen as male.

I was going to say the same thing.

From a MtF perspective, I have the habit of making myself appear far too girly (or trying to); you've probably noticed this effect before, and you've no doubt shaken your head in despair over what you've seen some of us MtF girls trying to do with our appearances.  I wonder if you're almost having the same problem but from a FtM perspective: are you trying to dress and appear as masculine as possible?

Without sounding like an oldie, plenty of male clothing these days, especially for the younger crowd, comes across as extremely aggressive, almost tribal, and inextricably woven with elements of thuggish gang culture.  Rightly or wrongly, people assume things about who we are and how we're likely to act from the way we dress.  Male street fashion?  Yeah, gonna try to steal my purse (even though you're not).

There is a good middle ground though - it's just really hard for us to find it.

[AdamMLP]

I don't know how much of the changes in the way people treat me in public has changed because of the area I now live in, or because people are reading me as male.  Although I've always presented the way I do and I've almost always been read as male, I used to live in a small village in the countryside, so everyone knew I was "supposed" to be female.  Now I'm living in town that's not particularly friendly (in the first month I lived here a pensioner was stabbed 47 times about 100 yards from my work), and I'm always read correctly as male because they don't know I've ever been thought of as anything else.  I don't know whether these changes are because they think I'm male, or because it's an entirely different culture.

As I was moving into my flat there was a woman smoking outside the entrance to the building.  My mother was there and she told me I had to say hello to her as she was presumably a neighbour, so I tried saying "Good evening" to her, and she ended up walking off and hiding behind the garages.

When I'm cycling down one of the paths I often pass people, and always thank them for stepping out of the way (I'm not just ignorant, it's an actual cycle path), but I just get glares at most in response.

People don't tend to sit next to me on public transport, but that suits me perfectly, if it's full-ish when I get on I choose to stand rather than sit next to someone.

I've been asked for a cigarette once on my way to work, which I thought was odd as most people read me as about 14, but then again it could be the area.  I wasn't even smoking at the time, and don't think I look like a stereotypical smoker.  I was never asked when people thought I was female.

[blink]

Anyway, I've talked with black transmen in the U.S. who struggle with people now seeing them as more of a threat than they did when they were read as a black females.  Sucks.

Good point. Take "male = potential threat" and stack racial stereotyping on top of that.

Crap like this is why the smoothest transition in the world is still going to be a challenge. Every interaction, even walking past a stranger, changes in many ways. Discussions like this are important, the more people can be prepared and informed ahead of time the better.

Interestingly there's a thread on this from the "opposite direction" right now:  https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,175001.0.html

Interesting article on the subject by a trans man:  http://www.avoiceformen.com/men/mens-issues/from-woman-to-man-to-red-pill-2/

[Blue Senpai]

I suspect people will find me intimidating soon since Latinos are thought to be as much as delinquents as African Americans here.

[Brandon]

Yea it happens to me to like lordkat said thats what happens when you are seen as male especially being a black guy I have numerous people watch me and my friends thinking we were gonna steal something.

[AeroZeppelin92]

Because I have almost two fully sleeved arms and plenty of other tattoos, I often get looked at like I'm a delinquent. Mostly because I look about 14 now that I'm always read as male, I get looks ranging anywhere from "how the hell does that kid have so many tattoos?" to "That damn hoodlum up to no good never gonna have a job never gonna amount to much."  I live in a pretty conservative area, and it's mostly from older folks that I get these looks,. Every so often one of them will actually come up and say something to me.

[ChrisRokk]

Maybe they're asking random people in hopes of finding someone with connections, before they screw up and ask a cop. Maybe they are a cop.

At least this makes me absolutely certain that I don't look like a cop, so that's good.

I notice that, but realized that just as women feel it necessary to maintain a certain image in public to keep safe, that men kind of have to do the same thing, but opposite, we sometimes have to present a non threatening demener in some places.

From a MtF perspective, I have the habit of making myself appear far too girly (or trying to); you've probably noticed this effect before, and you've no doubt shaken your head in despair over what you've seen some of us MtF girls trying to do with our appearances.  I wonder if you're almost having the same problem but from a FtM perspective: are you trying to dress and appear as masculine as possible?

Maybe I am overcompensating or I still am carrying myself like I did before HRT.  I'm definitely not doing it with intent anymore, but unfortunately I think part of my brain still thinks I look female even though the rest of the world disagrees.

I've been asked for a cigarette once on my way to work, which I thought was odd as most people read me as about 14, but then again it could be the area.  I wasn't even smoking at the time, and don't think I look like a stereotypical smoker.  I was never asked when people thought I was female.

I've always been asked for cigarettes or to borrow lighters despite not being a smoker so I never thought of that as a thing that specifically happens to men.  Maybe it is.  I'm not sure what that's about.

I suspect people will find me intimidating soon since Latinos are thought to be as much as delinquents as African Americans here.

Sorry, man.  I really hope it's not because they think I'm Latino.  My mom has been racially profiled as Latina a few times in the past due to her first and maiden last name and it's caused her some problems.  I think I look way more white than her, though.

Yea it happens to me to like lordkat said thats what happens when you are seen as male especially being a black guy I have numerous people watch me and my friends thinking we were gonna steal something.

That sucks.  I'm sorry, and I hope you and your friends stay safe given how racist the police can be.

Because I have almost two fully sleeved arms and plenty of other tattoos, I often get looked at like I'm a delinquent.

I keep forgetting both that I have tattoos and that other people may see them as a sign of delinquency, because in my mind tattoos are more correlated with working in a vegan restaurant, riding a bike or motorcycle, or brewing coffee than they are with crime.

[Bimmer Guy]

I was going to say the same thing.

From a MtF perspective, I have the habit of making myself appear far too girly (or trying to); you've probably noticed this effect before, and you've no doubt shaken your head in despair over what you've seen some of us MtF girls trying to do with our appearances.  I wonder if you're almost having the same problem but from a FtM perspective: are you trying to dress and appear as masculine as possible?

Without sounding like an oldie, plenty of male clothing these days, especially for the younger crowd, comes across as extremely aggressive, almost tribal, and inextricably woven with elements of thuggish gang culture.  Rightly or wrongly, people assume things about who we are and how we're likely to act from the way we dress.  Male street fashion?  Yeah, gonna try to steal my purse (even though you're not).

There is a good middle ground though - it's just really hard for us to find it.

This is an interesting point.  I have been wearing men's clothing exclusively for the last 25 years though, and am not trying to "pass", so I don't think this is the case.  I also hadn't started T yet.

Anyway, your post reminded me that since I also had business in the city that day, I was wearing a long sleeve dress shirt and dress pants (men's).  I guess that is especially male?  But, even if she did read me as male, doesn't the business wear make me a "safe" male?

So, here is my question, and maybe it is something that the MTFs can help me with along with FTMs.  How am I supposed to act in public since I am now on T and will more likely be read as male even when speaking?  What I mean is, is it not appropriate to ask women for directions?  I don't want to make people uncomfortable.  Is it inappropriate to smile at women I pass on the street?  I nod at men.

[ChrisRokk]

This is an interesting point.  I have been wearing men's clothing exclusively for the last 25 years though, and am not trying to "pass", so I don't think this is the case.  I also hadn't started T yet.

Since I also had business in the city that day I was actually in a men's long sleeve dress shirt and dress pants.  I guess that is especially male?  But, even if she did reac me as male, doesn't the business wear make me a "safe" male?

So, here is my question, and maybe it is something that the MTFs can help me with along with FTMs.  How am I supposed to act in public since I am now on T and will more likely be read as male even when speaking?  What I mean is, is it not appropriate to ask women for directions?  I don't want to make people uncomfortable.  Is it inappropriate to smile at women I pass on the street?  I nod at men.

I would guess business clothes usually make people view you as safe.  I would avoid smiling at random women you don't know.

After thinking about all of this stuff more, I realize a lot of it has to do with time of day and being in neighborhoods that are perceived as being dangerous.  Also, some people are more anxious in general so it may have more to do with them than you.

[Mitchell the Deathbell]

I've never once been attacked or mugged on the street EVER until I started to appear more as a male... people do see me as a potential trouble maker because I appear to be black (I'm actually Belizean... but my skin's a little dark. Eh.) I feel like this is the price to pay if I want to continue transitioning... I also don't live in the safest or friendliest city/neighborhood. I now have to carry self defense weapons with me wherever I go... :/

[Gothic Dandy]

I'm a fashion nerd and have been treated VERY differently depending on what I'm wearing. It's both fascinating and depressing.

While wearing certain things, I have been asked for a lighter or whether I have any body piercings, but this is not a typical occurrence for me. I've been stared at by people who seem to think I'm attractive, and stared at by people who seem to be wondering why I thought it was ok to leave the house in that (wearing pajama pants to college...). One day an elderly but dignified-looking woman expressed how she used to dress just like me in her 20's; another day, some punkish college guy started a conversation with me because he thought I was a crazy homeless lady.

I think that how people treat you in public is a combination of factors: your mannerisms, your attitude, your clothing, your gender, your race, your apparent age, maybe more.

"I keep forgetting both that I have tattoos and that other people may see them as a sign of delinquency, because in my mind tattoos are more correlated with working in a vegan restaurant, riding a bike or motorcycle, or brewing coffee than they are with crime."

I have the same mindset...heh.

[aleon515]

Not exactly at my age, but I have definitely (due to reading Matt Kailey's book) been careful interacting with children. Looking at or interacting with children makes you a monster. So I don't. Kind of a sad state of how things have become.

There are also innocent things that women can do that men can not. Like looking in a car window. Now I suppose I would be seen as "casing it" perhaps.

--Jay

[Tysilio]

Not exactly at my age, but I have definitely (due to reading Matt Kailey's book) been careful interacting with children. Looking at or interacting with children makes you a monster. So I don't. Kind of a sad state of how things have become.

Wow, Jay. I hadn't thought of that as a potential pitfall of being read as an older guy. It's not a problem I expect to have, as pretty much the only children I interact with are those of friends, but it's definitely something I'll keep in mind.

Yet another reason I should get around to reading Kailey's book, too.

[Liam Erik]

Not exactly at my age, but I have definitely (due to reading Matt Kailey's book) been careful interacting with children. Looking at or interacting with children makes you a monster. So I don't. Kind of a sad state of how things have become.

I've had this.  It's not like I've ever been interested in children, but sometimes in public children do interesting things, or get in the way, and you want to look.  Now I feel like I have to actively ignore and avoid them no matter what, or the parent will be watching me.

[GnomeKid]

people thought I was a delinquent well before transition.