Voice training, who and what

[ImagineKate]

I see all these recent threads about surgery, but so few about training.

I probably will get surgery but I am interested in training so the surgery has something to work with.

I see some popular options - FYFV, CandiFLA, Kathe Perez are the ones that stand out.

I'm not so sure about CandiFLA's approach because it relies initially on falsetto. Falsetto makes my throat hurt. I can't do it for any length of time. But she sounds good.
I kind of like FYFV because Andrea is a transwoman and she sounds really really good, so whatever she's doing is probably working.
I also like Kathe Perez because of her professional credentials, but I see that she has a multipronged approach (as does Andrea).

I'm on a limited budget but it's not like I'm choosing between voice training and groceries, so I can probably splurge a little.

I do want my voice to pass.

What would you recommend and why?

I'll try to see if I can get some recordings up so you have an idea of what we're working with. I can actually do voice impressions of TV characters and many real people very well.

[MelissaAnn]

ImagineKate,

I see all these recent threads about surgery, but so few about training.

I probably will get surgery but I am interested in training so the surgery has something to work with.

I see some popular options - FYFV, CandiFLA, Kathe Perez are the ones that stand out.

I'm not so sure about CandiFLA's approach because it relies initially on falsetto. Falsetto makes my throat hurt. I can't do it for any length of time.
I kind of like FYFV because Andrea is a transwoman and she sounds really really good, so whatever she's doing is probably working.
I also like Kathe Perez because of her professional credentials, but I see that she has a multipronged approach (as does Andrea).

I'm on a limited budget but it's not like I'm choosing between voice training and groceries, so I can probably splurge a little.

I do want my voice to pass.

What would you recommend and why?

I'll try to see if I can get some recordings up so you have an idea of what we're working with. I can actually do voice impressions of TV characters and many real people very well.

I feel the same way you do. There are so many different options out there can be confusing and I'm not sure which way to turn. Thank you for posting this thread. I'm going to be watching it to see what other women suggest.

Hugs,

Melissa Ann

[ImagineKate]

I might try Kathe's apps because they are relatively inexpensive compared to the other options. My therapist is also referring me to a voice therapist as well.

Voice is extremely important for me to pass. I feel that even if you don't look 100% passable, with a good female voice it just "clicks" for people so they gender you correctly.

[Julia-Madrid]

Hi Girls

CandiFLA and Cathe Perez were both interesting to me, but I found success with a singing teacher who slowly helped me move my pitch upwards.  A lot of exercises, mainly variations of scales over 2-3 octaves, that took me over into falsetto and back. I did this for about 3 months.  The aim was never to get the kind of pitch that CandiFLA demonstrates, but rather a lowish pitch throaty female voice, with the example we used being the singer Diana Krall.  Watch this video, from around minute 1:30.

As it happens, my voice is actually higher pitched than hers, but as people often point out, it's inflection - the singing that women do - that makes a voice feminine, together with a change to your word choice - how you say things.  If you don't already have this, the best way is to listen to how women speak on the radio - Women's Hour on BBC radio being the example I used.  Listen and repeat...

I was quite unsure about my voice until one night when a taxi driver told me how sensual it was, so perfection, whatever that means, is not necessary.  It's good enough. 

I now find that it has become my natural pitch, and it has become easier.  Now it's there from the moment I wake up, with no effort required, and it takes effort to find my original voice.

Happy to help with any pointers you might need.

Hugs
Julia

[ChrissyChips]

Well I'm trying the Deepstealth videos, you can find them for free on YT. It's only been a couple days so far so I can't really say how good the method is, but it does make sense to me and I can see that it should work:) At least I don't seem to have any trouble reaching 220hz, YAY! lol

[Sydney_NYC]

I see all these recent threads about surgery, but so few about training.

I probably will get surgery but I am interested in training so the surgery has something to work with.

I see some popular options - FYFV, CandiFLA, Kathe Perez are the ones that stand out.

I'm not so sure about CandiFLA's approach because it relies initially on falsetto. Falsetto makes my throat hurt. I can't do it for any length of time. But she sounds good.
I kind of like FYFV because Andrea is a transwoman and she sounds really really good, so whatever she's doing is probably working.
I also like Kathe Perez because of her professional credentials, but I see that she has a multipronged approach (as does Andrea).

I'm on a limited budget but it's not like I'm choosing between voice training and groceries, so I can probably splurge a little.

I do want my voice to pass.

What would you recommend and why?

I'll try to see if I can get some recordings up so you have an idea of what we're working with. I can actually do voice impressions of TV characters and many real people very well.

I would try training first and avoid surgery if you can. Surgery for voice has a lot of risk (to your voice) and isn't a shortcut. You've heard my voice and my old voice wasn't that for off from yours. I average about 170 Hz (in conversation I'm going higher and lower, sing-song effect and not monotone) when speaking which is on the feminine side of gender ambiguous. Resonance plays a large part as well (sometimes larger than pitch.) Because my resonance is extremely good, I don't have an issue in person, but 50% I do on the phone for some reason. (The higher quality the phone the more I'm gendered female.)

Falsetto is more for finding and testing your limits and trying to find the sweet spot and it something you really only do on the beginning. I preferred trying to talk in a cartoon voice instead to use the higher frequencies of your vocal chords. It takes time, but even if you have surgery, you still have to train for resonance and practice.

I found singing to be the most helpful in practicing both pitch and resonance. One song I really like is
If you can hit all the notes with that song, your doing well. I has both feminine highs and lows and help you build up. The other thing that helped was with your throat and tongue muscle pulling up your adams apple. It's hard to speak with it all the way up, but pull it down just a bit and the resonance kicks in very nicely using a head voice instead of a chest voice. The YouTube videos you mentioned (FYFV, CandiFLA specifically) are also good. Another one I like is:
I pretty much used the technique she describes for my voice the I self-taught.

I just started taking an advance class by Christie Block at the New York Speech and Voice Lab to help make mine even better. (It's taken me a year to reach where I am now, but my voice was pretty passable at 4 months of practice, but I would tire easily. It took 6 months before I wouldn't tire easily.) Yesterday she tested me at averaging 170 Hz, but she thinks that she can get me to average at 190-195 Hz. I also think my height gives me some acceptance of a women with a little deeper voice than normal and even at 170Hz I haven't had anyone clock me in person with my voice. (I haven't been sir'd since March.) There is always room for improvement especially since no one can see how tall you are over the phone.

[ImagineKate]

Thanks Sydney. Yes you do sound good. The only reason I'm considering surgery is because it will force me to use the female voice, permanently. But as I said I want something for it to work with and I realize it's not just a switch to flip.

[Stephe]

Thanks Sydney. Yes you do sound good. The only reason I'm considering surgery is because it will force me to use the female voice, permanently. But as I said I want something for it to work with and I realize it's not just a switch to flip.

My voice therapist HIGHLY recommended against any sort of vocal surgery. After gaining my female voice through training, I agree it's not necessary. People think it's a short cut, they can pay some money and wake up sounding like a woman, that just isn't the case. Lots of risks (and I mean a LOT of risks) and best case, with no training you will sound like a guy with a higher pitched voice. Pitch is only a small part of sounding like a female, there are plenty of low pitched women whom no one would misgender.

And this isn't aimed at anyone so please don't take this personally: I do find it very odd that people are willing to spend tens of thousands of dollars for FFS and vocal surgeries etc., but feel that voice training should be free and/or aren't willing to spend any money or time on voice training therapy. I've seen so many videos of really pretty transgirls who 100% pass visually, but like a bad cliche, they start talking and they sound like a truck driver, wonder why they get clocked and are considering more facial surgery as a solution. I ended up spending about $1500 on private, in person, voice therapy sessions and it was by far the best investment into my transition. And this is probably 10% or less of what voice surgery would cost.

I ended up spending $600 to get a hormone letter, after I had been living full time for three years, was perfectly happy with my life and had no need for therapy, other than to get the stupid letter. Now THAT was a waste of money

[Stephe]

The other thing that helped was with your throat and tongue muscle pulling up your adams apple. It's hard to speak with it all the way up, but pull it down just a bit and the resonance kicks in very nicely using a head voice instead of a chest voice.

This + 100. The other bonus from this is once you have trained your voice and it becomes your normal voice, your adams apple all but disappears.

[ImagineKate]

My voice therapist HIGHLY recommended against any sort of vocal surgery. After gaining my female voice through training, I agree it's not necessary. People think it's a short cut, they can pay some money and wake up sounding like a woman, that just isn't the case. Lots of risks (and I mean a LOT of risks) and best case, with no training you will sound like a guy with a higher pitched voice. Pitch is only a small part of sounding like a female, there are plenty of low pitched women whom no one would misgender.

I think maybe your voice therapist is thinking of older surgeries. Yeson and Professionalvoice are in a totally different league, at least based on the reports of others here.

No, I don't think I will just go under the knife and wake up with a woman's voice. However, from what I've seen, most are extremely happy with the result. I can't deny myself that happiness. That said, I know those who have had surgeries have also had training, and this is the approach I want to take.

[Julia-Madrid]

I think maybe your voice therapist is thinking of older surgeries. Yeson and Professionalvoice are in a totally different league, at least based on the reports of others here.

No, I don't think I will just go under the knife and wake up with a woman's voice. However, from what I've seen, most are extremely happy with the result. I can't deny myself that happiness. That said, I know those who have had surgeries have also had training, and this is the approach I want to take.

Kate, I don't know your voice, so I cannot say how much effort you might need.  But if you could achieve a good enough voice with training, I really do recommend that you investigate this deeply before you conclude that you need to go under the knife.  After a few surgeries now, I can say that all have consequences that may be less than desirable, and it starts to get darn expensive to edge towards our feminisation goals through elective surgery.

Of course I fully support your desire to reach whatever level of femininity you consider necessary, just go slowly sister.

With my very best wishes!
Julia

[ImagineKate]

Kate, I don't know your voice, so I cannot say how much effort you might need.  But if you could achieve a good enough voice with training, I really do recommend that you investigate this deeply before you conclude that you need to go under the knife.  After a few surgeries now, I can say that all have consequences that may be less than desirable, and it starts to get darn expensive to edge towards our feminisation goals through elective surgery.

Of course I fully support your desire to reach whatever level of femininity you consider necessary, just go slowly sister.

With my very best wishes!
Julia

Absolutely Julia, and thank you!

I am planning long term. Surgery won't be until about a year or so, if I do get it. The stage I'm in now I'm planning everything so I can prepare financially and mentally.

[ImagineKate]

This is the male voice I'm starting with.

http://vocaroo.com/i/s1d5XGW0ddL7

It has a slight caribbean accent.

[ImagineKate]

This + 100. The other bonus from this is once you have trained your voice and it becomes your normal voice, your adams apple all but disappears.

I don't have a visible adam's apple. At least I don't think so.

[ImagineKate]

[ImagineKate]

I think two major problems I have are resonance and a very nasal sounding voice.

Here is an attempt to sound higher.

http://vocaroo.com/i/s1GW1DcAZV24

[ImagineKate]

And this isn't aimed at anyone so please don't take this personally: I do find it very odd that people are willing to spend tens of thousands of dollars for FFS and vocal surgeries etc., but feel that voice training should be free and/or aren't willing to spend any money or time on voice training therapy. I've seen so many videos of really pretty transgirls who 100% pass visually, but like a bad cliche, they start talking and they sound like a truck driver, wonder why they get clocked and are considering more facial surgery as a solution. I ended up spending about $1500 on private, in person, voice therapy sessions and it was by far the best investment into my transition. And this is probably 10% or less of what voice surgery would cost.

I do agree with you up to a point. I definitely think that voice is a big factor in getting clocked. This is why I'm prioritizing it over FFS... I'm even prioritizing it over SRS, believe it or not.

However I don't believe that it is a waste of money to have either voice OR face surgery. The way I see it, practice and training gets you there, and surgery keeps you from slipping back.

And believe it or not there are trans girls who think hormones are a waste of time... it's really up to you what you want but I know I want a feminine, passable voice above all else. I've dreamed of it all my life.

[Sydney_NYC]

I think two major problems I have are resonance and a very nasal sounding voice.

Here is an attempt to sound higher.

http://vocaroo.com/i/s1GW1DcAZV24

That's a very good starting point. The nasal sounding means your using your head voice instead of you chest voice. If physically you pass very well, you won't have a problem with your voice.

One of the employees at one of my clients has a 20 year old cis-daughter who has an extremely natural deep voice, deeper than a lot of cis-men. If you heard her from the next room or on the phone, you would swear male (or maybe FTM) despite her resonance being on the feminine side. However when your looking at her and hearing her voice, you don't think male because the brain see female and voice becomes female.

Everyone has both masculine and feminine characteristics whether your a cis-woman, cis-man, transgender, etc. The gender that the person registers with more than 50% of those characteristics is what the person is going to register you as. Most people out there are going to register as one gender or the other and the last thing on there mind is if someone is transgender, it's just not on their radar unless they are looking for it. It's not just one thing, it's the whole picture that matters.

[Julia-Madrid]

This is the male voice I'm starting with.

http://vocaroo.com/i/s1d5XGW0ddL7

It has a slight caribbean accent.

Hiya Kate---- here's a reply to your recording:

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0L2WapkYLNs

Hugs
Julia

[Stephe]

I do agree with you up to a point. I definitely think that voice is a big factor in getting clocked. This is why I'm prioritizing it over FFS... I'm even prioritizing it over SRS, believe it or not.

However I don't believe that it is a waste of money to have either voice OR face surgery. The way I see it, practice and training gets you there, and surgery keeps you from slipping back.

I'm sorry but I simply have to disagree. Even if the surgery has zero risks, unless you are flush with cash, it seems like a bad priority to pick vocal surgery over other transition expenses for this perceived  "slipping back", which I've never experienced. If you are living full time, you get plenty of practice daily just living. The only way I could see slipping back would be someone living part time trying to flip back and forth between a male and a female voice.

If you are going to spend some money, spend it on some personal -in RL- voice training and go as far as you can with that before you have your voice surgically altered. Don't just do a few online voice courses or watching fee youtube videos and assume that is as good as it will get.  As someone else said, your voice isn't that far off now.