Does getting "mam'd" actually mean you pass?

[TSJasmine]

I've been getting mam'd since well before HRT but I feel it had nothing to do with me actually looking like a girl. It was visibly the side of the gender spectrum I fell towards but did I pass? I doubt I did. I mean, I wore heels to school, skirts sometimes, dresses, used the girls bathroom & I never really cared. I feel like that's why the other student's, faculty, staff, etc. could only consider me female rather than male because it was the more polite thing. Now a days, I still obviously get mam'd & I feel the HRT has helped significantly but is getting mam'd on the street even without makeup actually a reasonable way to judge one's passability? I just feel that people are going to call you whatever you present yourself as out of politeness, regardless of them being aware of your natal gender or not. Although does being accepted as your presented gender make you passable?

[Jennygirl]

"Passing" is a definite grey area, that is for sure. I think it depends on too many factors to know exactly, including personal definition of the term. As well, we are very harsh critics on ourselves- which only serves to add to the grey matter.

Either way, I would take it as a great sign. You are doing it right- society has accepted you as female. About a year and a half ago I knew that I wasn't "blending" as cis-female, but people still called me miss and ma'am. You bet your bottom I took it as a pass!

I say take it for what it is at face value: respect!

[Ms Grace]

It's a good sign, that's for sure!

[TSJasmine]

"Passing" is a definite grey area, that is for sure. I think it depends on too many factors to know exactly, including personal definition of the term. As well, we are very harsh critics on ourselves- which only serves to add to the grey matter.

Either way, I would take it as a great sign. You are doing it right- society has accepted you as female. About a year and a half ago I knew that I wasn't "blending" as cis-female, but people still called me miss and ma'am. You bet your bottom I took it as a pass!

I say take it for what it is at face value: respect!

I really like this answer Thank you! I agree on the passing being a grey area. Everyone's definition of it is different & has different ways of feeling they've achieved it. Btw, you're one of the most passable TS I've seen on here! I'm sure you must have been even slightly feminine looking from the get go because to look that feminine with less than 2 years of hormones seems unreal!

[Jaime R D]

Depends. People ma'am me because its obvious I want to be seen that way, but many are simply humoring me, I do know that.

[TSJasmine]

Depends. People ma'am me because its obvious I want to be seen that way, but many are simply humoring me, I do know that.

Humoring sounds like such a negative way to look at it. You look like a girl in your pic so I doubt they're telling you it to laugh at you afterwards for, but rather even if they are aware, they see you as a female.

[Jennygirl]

I really like this answer Thank you! I agree on the passing being a grey area. Everyone's definition of it is different & has different ways of feeling they've achieved it. Btw, you're one of the most passable TS I've seen on here! I'm sure you must have been even slightly feminine looking from the get go because to look that feminine with less than 2 years of hormones seems unreal!

That is so incredibly nice of you to say Jasmine Thank you! Glad you liked my response, too. I was hoping you would!

I think I looked pretty dudely before, but I did have fairly long hair when I officially started transition- nearly down to my shoulders. Throughout transition, I have always thought of that as my number one passing feature until other things started to fall in line. I did have some light FFS done as well- forehead and nose. Overall I think I did luck-out, but I will tell you at first I thought it was going to take way more. Presentation counted worth a million points for me.

There is also an interesting conversation going on in this thread which it looks like you are already biting on. Just wanted to reiterate that it's not just hormones. A lot can be done with the right presentation, and the right support group to keep your confidence up whilst trying new things out. I think that is honestly what helped me the most: having a solid inner support circle. There is not a day that passes where I am not thankful for the people that have supported me through this, both online and in real life! Made the hugest difference.

[Jenna Marie]

My answer is one of those "it depends on what you mean by passing" ones. Personally, my goal is to blend in with the cis women around me, so if I'm being treated identically to them - I tend to assume I've succeeded. (Reading the minds of strangers is a challenging proposition to say the least, so while sometimes it's obvious when someone is being "polite," the rest of the time I would take them at face value rather than drive yourself nuts wondering.) For a lot of people, treating someone according to their gender presentation *is* how they gender people - they would do the same to cis people, in other words, including misgendering a woman with short hair in men's clothes, because they're lazy and go with whatever cues they're handed. So that's not necessarily a "doesn't notice you're trans b/c you pass perfectly" so much as "doesn't CARE either way and didn't think about it," if that makes sense. But, hey, for many of us the goal is to get through our daily lives without being hassled or ending up depressed, and that'll do.

I have not been misgendered in public in years, but I admit I treasured the early "you know you pass" moments (there's a thread with a title like that) where somebody comments in such a way as to make it obvious that they assume I'm cis.

[Tessa James]

passing is such a loaded term and really, unless one is clairvoyant we may not know someones motivation.  I am comfortable with the default position of not being passable and accept that many people will indeed have a clue and yet are polite, respectful and sure, humoring me.  My presentation is decidedly more feminine even if my hulky old body and other clues from the size of my hands to my voice are not and it seems some people get it.  People who have known us in our former lives seem to have the most trouble while people who have only known me as Tessa are more often gendering me consistently female.   

[Jennygirl]

I have not been misgendered in public in years, but I admit I treasured the early "you know you pass" moments (there's a thread with a title like that) where somebody comments in such a way as to make it obvious that they assume I'm cis.

Ah yes... the classic! I love that thread

[Jenna Marie]

Jennygirl : Thanks for digging up the link! Speaking of lazy, I admit, I was too lazy to bother.

[Alaena_okc]

It's a good sign, that's for sure!

very true Ms Grace, it is a good sign

[KittyKat]

I see it as things are working in the right way. I actually have a wig on in my avatar my real hair is still short and in a boy style. I haven't started to go full time yet but being on hormones for awhile I have been called ma'am while dressed in pretty neutral clothes. I always take it as a sign that things are going good, just want my hair longer.

[Beth Andrea]

I take it as a sign society is getting better (for us, at least). Conversely, being sir'd reminds me we have a long way to go.

[Jennygirl]

Jennygirl : Thanks for digging up the link! Speaking of lazy, I admit, I was too lazy to bother.

Haha, no worries. I find that google's search function works the most reliably. Just search "susans ____" to find any thread. Or if you want to get especially nerdy with it you can do "site:susans.org _____" Works every time! Also a reminder of how public this place is It is easy to forget!

[ImagineKate]

That is so incredibly nice of you to say Jasmine Thank you! Glad you liked my response, too. I was hoping you would!

I think I looked pretty dudely before, but I did have fairly long hair when I officially started transition- nearly down to my shoulders. Throughout transition, I have always thought of that as my number one passing feature until other things started to fall in line. I did have some light FFS done as well- forehead and nose. Overall I think I did luck-out, but I will tell you at first I thought it was going to take way more. Presentation counted worth a million points for me.

There is also an interesting conversation going on in this thread which it looks like you are already biting on. Just wanted to reiterate that it's not just hormones. A lot can be done with the right presentation, and the right support group to keep your confidence up whilst trying new things out. I think that is honestly what helped me the most: having a solid inner support circle. There is not a day that passes where I am not thankful for the people that have supported me through this, both online and in real life! Made the hugest difference.

Jenny, I have to say that you are one of my biggest inspirations here. I'm sure you hear that a lot.

I do agree on presentation and since I am preparing for transition I have started to take stock of everything. The sloppy guy who just let everything go is no more. I have really started taking care of myself in a huge way. I mean even basic things like looking in the mirror in the morning before I get out the house. I never had reason to do this, but now that I know what I want to be, you can bet that I am.

I know things are getting better because people say I look younger and more full of energy. Probably because of the facial electrolysis they're saying that but I'm actually taking care of myself more. If anything, this validates for me that transitioning is the right choice, and something I must do.

[Jennygirl]

Jenny, I have to say that you are one of my biggest inspirations here. I'm sure you hear that a lot.

I do agree on presentation and since I am preparing for transition I have started to take stock of everything. The sloppy guy who just let everything go is no more. I have really started taking care of myself in a huge way. I mean even basic things like looking in the mirror in the morning before I get out the house. I never had reason to do this, but now that I know what I want to be, you can bet that I am.

I know things are getting better because people say I look younger and more full of energy. Probably because of the facial electrolysis they're saying that but I'm actually taking care of myself more. If anything, this validates for me that transitioning is the right choice, and something I must do.

Sounds like me a couple of years ago. Suddenly you just kind of "wake up" and you have a new reason to live and a new set of parameters to fill. It's a very exciting time, and I hope you cherish every bit of happiness you get from it. As Shantel once lovingly told me, you only go through second puberty once. It is no doubt a time to enjoy what you can. Really happy to hear that things are going well for you. Passing is one thing, but being happy and enjoying life trumps all.

And thanks for the kind words Kate

[stephaniec]

Sounds like me a couple of years ago. Suddenly you just kind of "wake up" and you have a new reason to live and a new set of parameters to fill. It's a very exciting time, and I hope you cherish every bit of happiness you get from it. As Shantel once lovingly told me, you only go through second puberty once. It is no doubt a time to enjoy what you can. Really happy to hear that things are going well for you. Passing is one thing, but being happy and enjoying life trumps all.

And thanks for the kind words Kate

yea, 'new reason to live '

[April Lee]

I have never gotten "mam", and I am not sure I would want to. It sounds like something I would say to my grandmother, very formal and very old fashion. But in clubs, bars, and restaurants, "I have been called: "miss", "baby", "hon", and "doll", and maybe a couple of other things along the the same line that I have forgotten. A little bit of sexism will go a long way for me. It is great validation if it is done a cute and respectful manner.

[androgynouspainter26]

There's a huge difference, for sure.  I haven't gotten sir'd in a while, but just about everyone I know can tell that I'm trans :/

Oftentimes, people will just indulge your identity, sorry to say...but, at least it's better than outright disrespect.