The Essence of Womanhood: Be Careful, Please. Rant

[NicholeW.]

WARNING: What follows is an opinion that many will probably NOT enjoy reading. Try to recall it is an opinion and not the word of deity and only directed toward you if you believe it to be.

All you gals who came here thinking you were gonna find out, please go ahead and leave before reading anything.

Those of you who thought you might come in to extol how well you exude that essence, hmm, yep, you better go ahead and find something else as well.

I really doubt that any people who came for either of those two reasons are gonna like what you find. You may even get a bit angry.

I would rather not be subject to venom, so please do not read if you KNOW that you have the essence of womanhood. Thanks. 

No, I am not angry. Nor am I particularly bothered by those who might fit what I am about to rant about. In fact, I see this rant as being not much of a rant at all. Just some observations and following opinion.

Many TS women have no clue about the essence of womanhood. I have just about decided that there is none, at least not if you are gonna talk about it.

I highly agree with the Dhammapada in which Siddartha states: Those who speak of it do not know. Those who know do not speak of it.

Yes, he was saying that about enlightenment. Not a bad quest for any transitioner, imo. I find it applicable to "leading a woman's life" as well. Another kind of enlightenment, maybe.

1) I am 100% woman!

Sorry, if you have to tell me that, I'm gonna start noticing just how much you are not.

Excitement at transition can be a giddy experience. BUT ...

Trust me. After awhile, if you are lucky, you will realize that the giddiness needs to go. Fast. Life is right in your face.

Job, school, kids, dates, paying the bills what have you. Yes, you will be 100% if you are able to keep your mouth shut, get over transitioning and make your life on your life's terms. That is the Essence of Womanhood. 

2a) I pass all the time.

So, why are you telling me that if I haven't asked? (See #1 again, you need the refresher.)

When you carry your child to appointments at the doctor's, dentist's, grocery. When you don't have a child and find yourself going to work without makeup and no breakfast because you overslept.

When you have to work twice as hard just to get the same recognition as the guys in the office. When you absolutely KNOW that dammit, this gender thing is no bed of roses. AND shrug that off as life?

Then you are living in the essence of womanhood.

2b) I am beautiful. People tell me so. Same tune, then why are you so quick to let me know? (See 2a.) Honey, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If you are spending that much time in front of a mirror after a year or so of transition: YOU are NOT beautiful. You are wishful.

3) Men open doors for me.

They often do for my great aunt. If they don't, I do, because she has trouble with them.

Get over it. That is a culturally related activity and has nothing to do with the essence of anything other than social mores.

In fact, it can be rather insulting if you are not my great aunt. What! You think I am too damned weak to open a door? Go mow the yard for me if you really wanna do something worthwhile. Chop a cord of wood for the fireplace!

4) I feel domestic.

Maybe so, but keeping a house clean when someone, or a number of someones, actually live in it is not fun. If domestic were so grand, you'd be paying your au pair and housekeeper some real money, now wouldn't ya?

Lookit, a lot of us apparently watched Leave It To Beaver when we were either very young and it was on as a current show, or we watched a lot of reruns on Nick. June Cleaver was not the Essence of Womanhood. Neither was Laura Petrie. Not then, definitely not now. This is not your momma's Oldsmobile, honey.

Come back to 2007.

Summation: The Essence of Womanhood is being a real woman. If you find the definition, the essence of the essence, please let me know what you discovered.

If it's that men tend to be agency oriented and women tend to be communion oriented, don't bother telling me. I already know that.

Otherwise, just live your life as best you can, go home tired, relax, take your shots regularly and BE A WOMAN. The drama is not the essence.

Nichole


Edited to incorporate Shiva's suggested rewording of a sentence.

[melissa90299]

re: Passing issue. I have hesitated to say this but I concur. There are those on TS forums (not so much here) who take every opportunity to tell the group how well they pass. I feel exactly like you, if you pass so well, why do you need to reinforce it on an anonymous forum?

I have a habit of leaving the TV on while I do other things (a bad habit BTW but that's another topic) my ears perked up when I heard the voice of a transwoman on a promotional announcement, I looked up and saw visually a woman, probably a Dr  O graduate, the promo was a show about people who do a lot of plastic surgery and maybe too much, she was in for a procedure to revers aging, she obviously didn't need any more feminization. The point being almost no one who transitions past their teens passes all the time 100%, (the good news is that this woman passed 100% to the people on this show, nothing was mentioned about her being trans) Other than the safety and, perhaps, job considerations, there is no reason to be obsessed about passing all the time. One cannnot control how other people see you and their perception of you is meaningless (unless they attack you or fire you.)

And I will repeat my mantra---even though Westerners won't get it  ---attachment to passing (and certainly the attachment to passing "flawlessly") will only lead to dukha i.e. suffering.

[Sheila]

Nicole,
  I don't know why you felt the need to state all of this?
Dhammapada in which Siddartha states: Those who speak of it do not know. Those who know do not speak of it.
These words that you used could apply to what you have just said in length.

  I'm sure you feel 100% woman and are just that. I'm happy for you. As far as passing goes, we get all excited about passing and if it happens and no we aren't going to pass all the time, some more than others, but there will be times when we are read and if that person doesn't say anything, we still feel like we passed. No matter how old we are when we transtition, we will look at ourselves in the mirror to try and make the makeup work for us. As you know, we never had the pre-teen era for that kind of child's play. So we do it now. I don't think that we are that vain to think we look in the mirror to see how pretty we are. You are right, we are beautiful inside, all of us. Opening doors, what a nice gesture of being polite. I open doors for people all the time and I get doors open for me. I love the gesture and it makes me feel special, not so much a woman, but just that someone else thinks to help another person out. There are other little gestures that happen all the time. Doesn't it make you feel special and wanting to do an act of kindness? Oh yes, how about the chores around the home. I have been doing domestic, if you want to call it that, since I was 8 years old. My mom said that when I move out that I could find a wife that will do those things. Well, guess again. I may not have to do as much as when I was at home, but I still do my fair share of all the chores. You see, we both worked and to find time together we did the chores together,38 years. Now that I'm retired sort of, I do most of the chores. I don't feel as they are so much of a burden and something that I'm creating to live and feel clean and have that good feeling about you, when you come home from someplace. You don't have to live in a nice neighborhood to have that feeling.

Susans is a place that we can talk about our living in the opposite gender, maybe for only a few hours to living 24/7. We talk here to find out how to do certain things as we may not have the resources to asked or we might be too ashamed to ask. This is someplace to go and live out a fantasy and maybe someday that wish will come true, as it did for me. I don't have that philosophy of don't ask don't tell.

This is my opinion.
Love Sheila

[melissa90299]

Nicole,
  I don't know why you felt the need to state all of this?
Dhammapada in which Siddartha states: Those who speak of it do not know. Those who know do not speak of it.
These words that you used could apply to what you have just said in length.

As it could be applied to virtually anything posted here.

As far as passing goes, we get all excited about passing and if it happens and no we aren't going to pass all the time, some more than others, but there will be times when we are read and if that person doesn't say anything, we still feel like we passed.

I guess anywhere from a thousand to five thousand people see me in any given week, unless I survey (and get an honest answer) each one of those people, I will never know how flawlessly I pass. That is another reason why I think it  is questionable to be bragging about how well one passes, since there is never any concrete way to gauge it.


EDIT: Sheila, I am Nicole, without the H...


Nicole

[LostInTime]

Love yourself and watch -
Today, tomorrow, always.
First establish yourself in the way,
Then teach,
And so defeat sorrow.
To straighten the crooked
You must first do a harder thing -
Straighten yourself.
You are your only master.
Who else?
Subdue yourself,
And discover your master.
Wilfully you have fed
Your own mischief.
Soon it will crush you
As the diamond crushes stone.
By your own folly
You will be brought as low
As you worst enemy wishes.
So the creeper chokes the tree.
How hard it is to serve yourself,
How easy to lose yourself
In mischief and folly.
The kashta reed dies when it bears fruit.
So the fool,
Scorning the teachings of the awakened,
Spurning those who follow the dharma,
Perishes when his folly flowers.
Mischief is yours.
Sorrow is yours.
But virtue is also yours,
And purity.
You are the source
Of all purity and impurity.
No one purifies another.
Never neglect your work
For another's,
However great his need.
Your work is to discover your work
And then with all your heart
To give yourself to it.

[melissa90299]

BTW not everything I post here is to be taken at face value and I don't post emoticons to indicate tongue-in-cheekiness. Maybe I should, as a lot of times, people can't see I am joshing, anyway... carry on.

[Pica Pica]

"Use the Buddhist as a human shield, they won't mind."

[gothique11]

Nichole, I agree with you and thank you for posting that.


--natalie

[Rachael]

spot on bird. this is quite true.
SO many times those phrases crop up, and usually the person saying them hasnt a a clue about life as a woman,
so many obsess over transition, and spend so much time trying to be women, they dont make it... and never will.
when you think your beautiful, your either a liar, or deluded, nearly all women have something they would change or dont like. and none of my friends consider themselves beautiful, some will admit to being sortof pretty, but women are modest about thier looks for the most part, something ->-bleeped-<-s miss... and usually its the ones that ARNT beautiful.
Passing 100%? if your passing, your not a woman, women dont need to pass, they are. dont give me the bs about sometimes a woman is mistaken for a man, thats not the same, women are women, men are men, if your socially accepted as female, visually, mentally and otherwise, then you are a woman, your not passing, passing suggests acting. and i cant honestly belive folk who claim to pass 100% of the time. thier usually wrong!

R

[melissa90299]

BTW not everything I post here is to be taken at face value and I don't post emoticons to indicate tongue-in-cheekiness. Maybe I should, as a lot of times, people can't see I am joshing, anyway... carry on.

Thanks, Nicole. So you just refuse to use the emoticons?

O my, a stubborn Buddhist! 

Need to start placing that into my calculations when I read your posts!! 


Thanks for the info!


Nichole

Whoa, another pic of my twin!

Posted on: August 15, 2007, 06:25:58 PM

spot on bird. this is quite true.
SO many times those phrases crop up, and usually the person saying them hasnt a a clue about life as a woman,
so many obsess over transition, and spend so much time trying to be women, they dont make it... and never will.
when you think your beautiful, your either a liar, or deluded, nearly all women have something they would change or dont like. and none of my friends consider themselves beautiful, some will admit to being sortof pretty, but women are modest about thier looks for the most part, something ->-bleeped-<-s miss... and usually its the ones that ARNT beautiful.
Passing 100%? if your passing, your not a woman, women dont need to pass, they are. dont give me the bs about sometimes a woman is mistaken for a man, thats not the same, women are women, men are men, if your socially accepted as female, visually, mentally and otherwise, then you are a woman, your not passing, passing suggests acting. and i cant honestly believe folk who claim to pass 100% of the time. thier usually wrong!

R

R, your (new?) attitude about "passing" is spot on. Quite frankly, I wish there was a forum devoted to passing and passing only, the topic really gets old. As we know, passing referred to Jews passing as Non-Jews, and Blacks passing as White, these are people trying to pass as something they are not. That is not what we are doing, or should be attempting to do. As pointed out by Sheila and myself, there is no way to determine exactly how well one passes, if you aren't getting sirred, or him or he, that means one is passing reasonably well but it doesn't mean that one is lock-down stealth unreadable.

[Melissa]

I highly agree with the Dhammapada in which Siddartha states: Those who speak of it do not know. Those who know do not speak of it.

And many who do not speak of it, also do not know.  I see many people on here never speak about topics that they do not know anything about.

When you carry your child to appointments at the doctor's, dentist's, grocery. When you don't have a child and find yourself going to work without makeup and no breakfast because you overslept.

Um, yep.   I just did the second one this morning in fact.   I've done the "walking to places with your child because you don't have a working car" thing too within the past year.

When you have to work twice as hard just to keep up with the guys in the office for recognition. When you absolutely KNOW that dammit, this gender thing is no bed of roses. AND shrug that off as life?

Then you are living in the essence of womanhood.

I agree that gender thing in and of itself may be no "bed of roses", it only allows you to act within a certain set of socially acceptable parameters.  However, don't accept that viewing being a woman as something bad is required to be "living in the essence of womanhood."  I know that I have experienced extreme dysphoria by growing up in a male body/life, so now that I'm finally able to just be a female, I make sure to enjoy every moment of that to the best of my ability.  In other words, I do experience the simple joy in being a woman, but that's only because I have such a good basis of comparison.

Here's an analogy for you.  Say you suddenly find yourself homeless.  You are cold and living on the streets for months constantly afraid of danger and often hungry.  Now let's say you come across an opportunity that you take and you are finally are able live in a house once again.  That house may not be perfect, but at least you have shelter and food.  Don't you think you would appreciate that house SO much more than you ever would have before, because now you *know* what it was like not to have one?

That's exactly the way I feel about being a woman.  Had I been born in a female body, I probably would have been living just about the same kind of life I am now, but I wouldn't have that appreciation for being female that I have now.  If you take being female for granted, then you have gained nothing from all the suffering you went through all those years.

[NicholeW.]

Thanks Rach, Nat and Nicole, but especially to LIT for my favorite passage from the Gita! I had never read that translation before. HUGS. HUGS for all.

I am not feeling vinegary today. But, I do really think we need to watch ourselves a bit more closely at times. It's great to be able to see one's own beauty, but I've always felt better when others have pointed it out to me, rather than the other way around. Same with most things. Kudos work better as gifts from others rather than purchases for myself. 

I understand that this woman needs to live her life and leave the living of others' lives to themselves. I understand I am not wise as Krishna, but I have some experience. 

Anyhow, we all learn, hopefully.

Nichole

[Rachael]

what i dont understand, is peoples obsession with identifying as trans, or a ts woman. or thier need to be out, for me, this isnt something i want to remember, and once i finish transition (at grs yes...) ill get on with my life as a girl and leave this far behind, some say thats impossible, but maybe thats more thier desire for being 'special' or attention seeking. Im told im in denial if i identify solely as a woman. sorry, but thats just me. and i dont see how they have a right to tell me what i must identify as, and what is a part of who i am. trans is not part of me. and it neednt be. i think peoples views and responses on this forum, and the subjects in this topic say a lot about them. i for one, wouldnt mind having a normal life and normal problems one day. and it IS possible before someone tells me ill never be normal.

R

[melissa90299]

Now that I look at my pic and my baby sis's (Sharon Stone) I see that Sharon is a masculine version of me, lower brow, wider jaw, longer upper lip, fuller lips though...but more make-up to mask her male face!

Posted on: August 15, 2007, 07:11:11 PM

what i dont understand, is peoples obsession with identifying as trans, or a ts woman. or thier need to be out, for me, this isnt something i want to remember, and once i finish transition (at grs yes...) ill get on with my life as a girl and leave this far behind, some say thats impossible, but maybe thats more thier desire for being 'special' or attention seeking. Im told im in denial if i identify solely as a woman. sorry, but thats just me. and i dont see how they have a right to tell me what i must identify as, and what is a part of who i am. trans is not part of me. and it neednt be. i think peoples views and responses on this forum, and the subjects in this topic say a lot about them. i for one, wouldnt mind having a normal life and normal problems one day. and it IS possible before someone tells me ill never be normal.

R

Who is obsessed with IDing as trans, I don't see that. OTOH if you want to be a trans activist, you have to be out. And later transitioners have so much history, it's hard to erase. I can perfectly see younger transitioners putting this behind. I am on the way to do this myself and I am just healing from my GRS and only three years fulltime.

Ten years from now R, I can't see you living as anything but a "normal woman."

I still don't see you in a "cocktail dress" though! LOL

[SarahFaceDoom]

what i dont understand, is peoples obsession with identifying as trans, or a ts woman. or thier need to be out, for me, this isnt something i want to remember, and once i finish transition (at grs yes...) ill get on with my life as a girl and leave this far behind, some say thats impossible, but maybe thats more thier desire for being 'special' or attention seeking. Im told im in denial if i identify solely as a woman. sorry, but thats just me. and i dont see how they have a right to tell me what i must identify as, and what is a part of who i am. trans is not part of me. and it neednt be. i think peoples views and responses on this forum, and the subjects in this topic say a lot about them. i for one, wouldnt mind having a normal life and normal problems one day. and it IS possible before someone tells me ill never be normal.

R

I get wanting a normal life.  I don't get why acknowledging who you are without shame, precludes you from that.  It seems like you're ashamed of your past, and that can't be healthy.  I mean, is hiding your transition going to make for a normal life, or a paranoid one?  I don't feel like being transgender invalidates at all my life as a woman. 

[Rachael]

oddly, me neither! just not yet im too much of a raving tomboy. though with my recent interest in pink nailvarnish, and desires to own a dress, i may well end up in a cocktail dress! as long as its beyond sexy
heck, pigs have flown... ask american airways..
R

[LostInTime]

You are welcome for the passage. I have recently restarted on my journey along the noble eightfold path and I find myself re-reading things once known but lost in time.

[Rachael]

I get wanting a normal life.  I don't get why acknowledging who you are without shame, precludes you from that.  It seems like you're ashamed of your past, and that can't be healthy.  I mean, is hiding your transition going to make for a normal life, or a paranoid one?  I don't feel like being transgender invalidates at all my life as a woman. 

Well im really not deneying my past, as i never really had one, no landmarks to speak of, no friends. no major events. there isnt much to forget. I didnt necesrily say hideing it. but to be honest, im ashamed that im trans, its one of the main things that haunts me. i hate the fact i have to do this. i dont want to, but im a girl, i have to. Nomatter how much transgender is accepted, it will never be on a par with being a natal woman i fear. im not transitioning to be asecond class citizen, just a girl.
think im wrong? mad? deranged? probably. but with society as it is, i will be embaraced about this.

R

[tinkerbell]

1) I am 100% woman!

Sorry, if you have to tell me that, I'm gonna start noticing just how much you are not.

Excitement at transition can be a giddy experience. BUT ...

Trust me. After awhile, if you are lucky, you will realize that the giddiness needs to go. Fast. Life is right in your face.

Job, school, kids, dates, paying the bills what have you. Yes, you will be 100% if you are able to keep your mouth shut, get over transitioning and make your life on your life's terms. That is the Essence of Womanhood. 

2a) I pass all the time.

So, why are you telling me that if I haven't asked? (See #1 again, you need the refresher.)

When you carry your child to appointments at the doctor's, dentist's, grocery. When you don't have a child and find yourself going to work without makeup and no breakfast because you overslept.

When you have to work twice as hard just to keep up with the guys in the office for recognition. When you absolutely KNOW that dammit, this gender thing is no bed of roses. AND shrug that off as life?

Then you are living in the essence of womanhood.

2b) I am beautiful. People tell me so. Same tune, then why are you so quick to let me know? (See 2a.) Honey, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If you are spending that much time in front of a mirror after a year or so of transition: YOU are NOT beautiful. You are wishful.

3) Men open doors for me.

They often do for my great aunt. If they don't, I do, because she has trouble with them.

Get over it. That is a culturally related activity and has nothing to do with the essence of anything other than social mores.

In fact, it can be rather insulting if you are not my great aunt. What! You think I am too damned weak to open a door? Go mow the yard for me if you really wanna do something worthwhile. Chop a cord of wood for the fireplace!

4) I feel domestic.

Maybe so, but keeping a house clean when someone, or a number of someones, actually live in it is not fun. If domestic were so grand, you'd be paying your au pair and housekeeper some real money, now wouldn't ya?

Lookit, a lot of us apparently watched Leave It To Beaver when we were either very young and it was on as a current show, or we watched a lot of reruns on Nick. June Cleaver was not the Essence of Womanhood. Neither was Laura Petrie. Not then, definitely not now. This is not your momma's Oldsmobile, honey.

Come back to 2007.

Summation: The Essence of Womanhood is being a real woman. If you find the definition, the essence of the essence, please let me know what you discovered.

If it's that men tend to be agency oriented and women tend to be communion oriented, don't bother telling me. I already know that.

Otherwise, just live your life as best you can, go home tired, relax, take your shots regularly and BE A WOMAN. The drama is not the essence.

Nichole

"I'm 150% woman,  pass 149% of the time.  I look like a movie star, men succumb to my feet and are tantalized by my voluptuous, hourglass, feminine figure"

> > > >  what is wrong with this quote?  > I don't see anything wrong with it!   > >


I think that the problem here is that some women tend to associate womanhood with what I usually call "barbie syndrome".  The "essence" of a woman is that invisible aura/vibe/energy that others feel when they are around you.  It doesn't have anything to do with wearing the right lipstick, acting/looking like a plastic bimbo, or having DDD boobs!

On the other hand, I also think that Sheila has brought up some excellent points.  Honestly, I do enjoy when men open the door for me; it just shows me that although an endangered species, gentlemen are still out there, willing to show courtesy.  Nowadays it's very easy to find men, but it is almost impossible to find a gentleman amongst men.

Wonderful responses kitty cats!

tink

[Rachael]

yes! thier dieing out, but its nice when you find one, i hate guys who barge ahead or let doors slam in your face. some common decency and oldfashioned gentlemanly behaviour goes a long way

R