Why is it hard for MtFs to find straight men who will accept them?

[April_TO]

This is off topic, I just have to say andrognouspainter26, you look gorgeous! I have been following certain topics around and I remember a thread discussing passability and to me you are more than passable - you are beautiful babe.

Now to this thread, I agree to what Julia said about the traditional view of most men. It is a sad reality.
LOL - I am even joking to one of good cis female friends that I am starting to be a man hater. I see them as p_gs.
Sorry I mean no offense.

Even younger cis lesbians won't even consider dating a trans girl :/

And, it's a lot harder to pass to a queer girl and then convince her to hang around once she finds out.

[androgynouspainter26]

Awwww, thank you
It's a more recent development, but I guess at the two year mark hormones have finally started doing the thing.

[Hikari]

I think it is likely that they just feel uncomfortable with the concept that gender is something that isn't that simple. Knowing someone is trans makes them confront this, and seems to really hit on lots of insecurities, especially with straight men, but with all cisgendered people.

I haven't had nearly the difficulty in finding a partner as I thought I would, granted I am a lesbian, so I haven't looked for a straight man.

[ThePhoenix]

In my case, I am infamous among my friends for always saying no whenever I am asked out.  I don't think I've ever said yes in my entire life.  So disclosure and dating are non issues for me because I'm just not interested.  And that fact may greatly impact my opinion.  But it seems to me that all three of the options in the survey apply.  Yes, it's prejudice.  Yes, there are differences.  And yes, there are other things entirely. 

Prejudice
======

When you say "transgender" to people, many people think of men walking around in dresses.  They don't understand the difference.  What matters to them is that they think a transgender woman is a guy.  And they aren't interested in dating a guy. 

People often believe that transgender people are mentally unstable or defective in some way.  Who wants to date someone like that? 

People often believe that trans women are sex workers and fetishists.  There have been issues with dating sites kicking off identified trans women and giving fetishism as an explanation (that's right, match.com, I'm looking at you).

And as has been pointed out by another poster, dating a trans* person means getting hit by some transphobic prejudice oneself.

Differences
=======

There are often physical gender nonconformities.  For example, height.  Guys often don't seem to like dating someone taller than them.  Or voices.  A lot of people find a deep voice coming from a person who looks female to be very jarring and disconcerting and a lot of trans women do have deeper voices.

And there's behavior too.  Old habits die hard for most trans women.  For example, a couple of months ago I was at a trans* group meeting.  Two trans women arrived at the same time as I did.  One got to the door first and opened it, then turned to the other two of us and said "after you, ladies."  The second one turned to me and motioned me to go on in.  Then when we got in, there were not enough seats.  A trans woman went and got me a chair, carried it in, and unfolded it for me.  Then at the end of the meeting, I started to put the chair back (I saw where it came from) but yet another trans woman took it away from me and put it away for me.  This interaction was a little bit jarring and confusing for me because it felt--with apologies, and for lack of a better word--gentlemanly.  Even though it was women involved.  Like I said, old habits die hard and most people have some left over ones. 

Dating roles are very gendered.  So imagine how jarring it could be if you're visibly accustomed to playing the role that the other person is trying to play.  And imagine if the other person is unaccustomed to dealing with people who are adjusting to a different gender role. 

Other things
========

People are very hung up on labels.  If you believe that trans women are men (see above under prejudice) then what does it mean for you if you are attracted to one?  Does that make you gay?  It's amazing how many people ask that.  And how upset they are about it.

And there's also the fact that people do sometimes want genetic children.  So they won't date anyone who is sterile, whether cis or trans*. 

And there's also the reality of different strokes for different folks.  A lot of people may be attracted to blondes, but not brunettes.  And they may be attracted to cis women but not trans women.

We also have a habit of stigmatizing people who are attracted to trans* women too.  It seems like a lot of trans women automatically label anyone attracted to them as a ->-bleeped-<-.  Even the ones who don't go all fetishistic.  It's like trans women think poorly of anyone who might find them attractive.  And that's a shame. 

And of course, the reality that if you are older, then guys tend to lose interest.

=============

All in all, things may look depressing for a lot of trans* people looking for love in cisgender places  Many do end up in relationships with other trans* people.

But there is hope.  Things seem to improve the younger people get.  And my best trans* friend had one of the most loving relationships I've ever seen with a cisguy.  They are both in their 60s, so not exactly young.  So there are people out there even in older demographics.  There is love to be found.  You just have to keep digging. 

Being trans* adds some extra difficulties.  But the need to keep digging for a long time is not unique to trans* people.  I think that's how it is for most people.

[kelly_aus]

Even younger cis lesbians won't even consider dating a trans girl :/

And, it's a lot harder to pass to a queer girl and then convince her to hang around once she finds out.

I just had 5 under-30's women over for dinner.. I've dated 2 and slept with another 2.. One of them was Christmas Eve. The 5th was the token straight woman.

[Unrepentant]

I just had 5 under-30's women over for dinner.. I've dated 2 and slept with another 2.. One of them was Christmas Eve. The 5th was the token straight woman.

I could imagine it would be awkward for me

[Tessa James]

Freely acknowledging that this is speculation regarding billions of people, I tend to agree with my sisters that fear is a major component.   The insecurity and intangible sense of gender being fluid bothers plenty of people, including some of us who are transgender.  I feel that gender fluidity is part of what I represent to some of my friends and acquaintances.  If I could change so much how vulnerable are they?  How fragile is that ego and their sense of order in the universe?  Is being transgender catchy? 

We turn some peoples perceptions on their heads.  I have had friends and complete strangers, men and women, come up and let me know they were no longer attracted to me now that my truth is out there.  I am not in the dating pool but is does seem to be considerably smaller.  It makes those seemingly rare guys and romances even more valuable eh?

[Mai]

probably also depends on what part of the world you live in.  and what culture you are a part of.  and the kinds of guys you decide to include in your own personal circle.  if you soround yourself with people that are kind and accepting, your more likely to attract more guys/girls that are also kind and accepting.

there are alot of guys out there who would be accepting, and are non judgemental, just, they dont tend to advertise themselves.

just because someone isnt coming up to you to hit on you, or try to ask you out repeadedly, doesnt mean that the person isnt attracted or interested in you. 

or if someone decides they arent, it might not always be because of being trans.

there are people out there who would just want you to be you.  and if you are genuine and they love who you are, then it wont matter to them.

[ReDucks]

I think the base issue is the boner.  Men's arousal mechanisms are notoriously fragile with impotence being the biggest fear men have in regards to sex.  The question pre-supposes that the man is told or learns their partner is trans.  I have seen that if there is no disclosure, there can be strong attraction physically and mentally, but that can evaporate once the male knows their woman's status/history.  The first place that seems to manifest is in performance issues for the man, which is a downhill snowball type event.

The reason might also be due to the re-categorization from partner to 'bottom'.  In our society, bottom is the lowest place in the male pecking order, no pun intended, while women are along-side that pecking order.  Shifting us from one category to another serves to put us far below in the pecking order, and at the same time introduce doubt into the attraction equation.

[Missy~rmdlm]

I have no uterus and no chance of having kids. Yes that matters. That alone wipes out a good 65% of straight males as dating aspects, being afraid of the appearance of a relationship another 20%, actual prejudice another ten percent or so, that leaves 5% of the dating pool left, so in short it's rare to marry a straight male. Dates and friends are a different matter.
I consider myself bisexual, with a history with women. My current lesbian relationship has exceeded two years now, though we are not yet engaged.

[awilliams1701]

I wish I could date someone solely on their personality and not how they look, but I need that femininity. As a result, I've seen a lot of cis-girl butch lesbians I wouldn't even consider because they are too masculine for my tastes. There are some trans girls I would date and there are some I wouldn't. I wouldn't even date myself at this stage in my journey. I'm hoping this might change, but currently that's the way it is for me.

I've already come a long way though. 6ish months ago I don't think I could have dated anyone that was transgender post-op or not and feminine or not.

[Evolving Beauty]

Are you talking of non-passable pre-ops, passable pre-ops, or post-ops? All 3 are viewed very differently by straight men.

[ThePhoenix]

Are you talking of non-passable pre-ops, passable pre-ops, or post-ops? All 3 are viewed very differently by straight men.

I think passable post-ops and non-passable post-ops also are viewed very differently from one another.

[Jen72]

I think it comes to a basic culmination of factors. Of course I wish this wasn't true but such is life/reality.

Boys/girls are taught at a very young age that we socialize with in groups and some people are just outcasts of any group. Those outcasts are either viewed as a novelty/fetish or as a thing to stay away from. I know this is a generalization but think about it who liked the nerds in school or the geeks only the other nerds and geeks and possibly a very few of the social elite such as the jocks and beauty queens.

Since we all learn this order of things from our peers really as well as socialization from elders it becomes so ingrained into society that most will not even think or consider the outcasts.

By the way was a geek outcast in high school and of course being transgendered and 6 ft bulky I would take a guess I will be even more of an outcast.

All that being said there is a chance of course but really the one thing I can think of growing up was ha ha ha look at the sissy as the worst put down ever. So there are not many open minded people in general therefor you get what we have today. It is changing such as with gays but it will be slooow as people do not like change because that causes fear and nobody wants that.

I am a realist and at my age (43) I have to think that there is hope but not a lot. I also live in a redneck part of the world then again in alberta, Canada its full of rig pigs (like hill billies) yet its also a lot more liberal in views on LGBT then a lot of places in Canada. So as you see there is some hope in the strangest places since it doesn't make sense to have liberal views on LGBT when the place you speak of pertains to typical hyper masculine attitudes.

I know I have rambled a bit here but I think in general society grows slow because we don't want change only those with open minds which are very few progress society as a whole. Those very few people tend to be more on the eccentric, artistic, scientific in general the more intelligent part of society. Since a majority of the people are either not to bright or simply don't care that much and just want to simply follow they fear those that are creating changes which are also on the open minded faction if you will. So we progress slowly little by little the few are stronger (in mind) to push for change and part of that change would be view people not solely on what they perceive but what they know.

I think I went sort of off topic but sort of not sorry about the long winded generalizations.

There is always hope somewhere:)

[Rachelicious]

I'm very torn between the first two options. On one hand, yes some are just prejudiced. If he's not thoroughly devoted to you, it's easier for prejudice to potentially win him over since he has less faith in you and therefore less to lose from attachment; either that, or if he's bi- to any degree, he may see you as something other than female, which IMO is equally as degrading. Before surgery I just couldn't imagine anyone accepting me as female in a sexual encounter if I did not fit the physiological concept of female. So surgery and meaningful emotional connection are absolutely the factors that have potential in your favor should this be an issue.

On the other hand, yes, some men really are not a good match. Some want their own biological children, for instance, and unless becoming close to you deeply changes his outlook on life or something, they will remain a bad match. This is a meaningful difference, but I wouldn't draw it as a gender-based difference. There are women who for various genetic, congenital, or injurious reasons simply cannot have children. I count myself among them. Sometimes if a man's love for you is deep enough, that reality may be one he can accept and live with.

[suzifrommd]

Thanks to all who responded. While most people seemed to think it was prejudice, I also found it helpful to see the perspective that for men, it is important what their peers think about them, and dating a trans woman might make them appear less successful in the eyes of their friends and associates.

[antonia]

Perhaps I'm lucky but I've had no trouble finding straight men that wanted to date me and I make no effort to hide the fact that I'm trans.

In fact I've been overwhelmed and had to learn how to let guys down without hurting their feelings.

In all honestly (and this is brutally honest) I think a big factor is how one fairs in the genetic lottery, straight guys don't mind dating a trans girl if all their friends think she is good looking. This is no different than what CIS people have to deal with every day but we have a further disadvantage. We have to work twice as hard, be it at makeup, exercising, eating right, our voice and everything else.

In order for a straight guy to pick a trans woman over a cis woman the trans woman really does need to be better in some way and unfortunately personality is not rated very highly today.

[androgynouspainter26]

Antonia, I second that.  We don't like talking about these things, but the fact is that a huge factor is just wether or not a trans woman is pretty and passable.  If you don't look the way an attractive woman "should", chances are you are going to die alone.  Sadly, not all of us can be as stunning as you are

I think another part of it is how one presents-I may look pretty good with the radical queer haircut, but not many people find it approachable/people tend to assume I only date women.  I think being exceptionally feminine is important, sadly, if you're looking to date men.  I've found that the cis men I have dated are all attracted to femininity, and I felt obligated to cross my legs a bit more tightly, and raise my voice just a bit higher than usual. Still, I can't claim to know what it feels like to be overwhelmed with attention; honestly, I'm really jealous of you.  You're absolutely right that for the most part it's just down to luck, and it just feels so unfair that so many of us will have to go through life alone because we weren't so lucky   I wonder, if we all had known just how hard it would be to find love, would we have transitioned?  I'm not so sure I would have.

[spooky]

I view it as a simple matter of cowardice.

Are you talking of non-passable pre-ops, passable pre-ops, or post-ops? All 3 are viewed very differently by straight men.

This is definitely true too.  Early on in transition I had a very difficult time finding men who actually wanted to *date* me, but these days I shatter hearts left and right. 

[Sammy]

I dipped a toe in the dating scene recently and I am still disappointed. There are a lot of men out there who label themselves as straight but in reality have had a previous experience with transgender person (via escorting or casual hook-ups - did not ask). They dont really seem to care or wish to learn - they just seem to have some sort of fixation or idea that they want an open kind of relationship with someone who is transgender. And it grinds down to sex and only. They might use nice words and phrases, but there is one essential thing they dont seem to comprehend - most of us have spent a lot of time around men, we know what motivates them, how they think and what they would do to get that score. I dunno if those tricks would work on genetic woman (I suspect not), but sometimes I am really dissapointed  about the lack of effort which those guys are putting out - or maybe they have failed with GGs and know think that they might have some luck with transgender?

And to counterbalance this negativity, I must state that there are nice transgender attracted people out there, and I have met at least one of them, except it seems that we are drawn to each other just as strong as we are probably scared of each other .