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Am I just fooling myself?

Started by cindy16, February 03, 2015, 11:05:26 AM

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cindy16

It might seem strange that I am asking this question after spending so many days here, after seemingly coming to terms with my identity, and after coming out to my wife and my therapist. And I am sorry if my post offends anyone. I am only trying to think aloud. Because the truth is, I have still not fully been able to accept that I am trans, that I am a 'female trapped in a male body', or that my mind is female. What if my mind is male but with some female tendencies? What if all those 'female tendencies' I think I have are nothing but stereotypes? What if this means the dysphoria is not actually that much of a problem, that I am making it a problem by thinking so much about it?

Until now, I have made a few posts talking about those traits of mine or events in my life which convinced me that I am female. Now, I am going to try to convince myself of the opposite, that I am and have always been male, and see if it works.

I never even had gender dysphoria until a few months ago. At best, I may have been a misfit all my life, but even the term 'misfit' is a bit exaggerated. After all, I have 'fit in' well enough to have had reasonable success in my education and career so far, and to have a good marriage, good relations with family and a good network of friends. Yes, there have been many occasions when I felt out of place even among close friends because I couldn't relate to the way they thought or spoke or acted, but there have been other occasions when I got along well with them and probably behaved just like any other guy.
I may not have been good at sports, but then, there are many other guys like that. Why am I giving so much importance to that stereotype?
The same goes for being good at handling babies, and the supposed carrying angle of my arm which allows me to do it well. Am I not reading too much into it? Aren't there many other 'chores' typically associated with women which I have hardly ever shown interest in?
And after all, other than these few examples, nothing else tells me I should have been female. Throughout my childhood or teenage, I never tried female clothes, or makeup, or long hair, or playing with dolls etc. I remember just one example, maybe when I was about 7-8 years old, when my mother and an aunt dressed up my brother, a male cousin and me as girls, but I don't really think I felt great about it. I just played along, got a photo clicked and that was it. I don't remember the photo, but I think I look sullen in it, while my brother and cousin are both grinning.
In fact, my brother had quite a few occasions throughout school (we were in a boys' school) when he had to dress up as a girl, and he did it quite cheerfully every time. I did not look as feminine, so I never got that chance, but I don't remember feeling bad or jealous about it.
He now looks quite masculine, while I still retain my childhood appearance in some ways, so maybe I now look more feminine than him. But maybe that's because I have never really put in much effort into looking masculine, or any effort on my looks for that matter. I have just gone along with what I had, and I've never had much of a problem with my M-shaped hairline or facial hair until a few weeks back.

I have said before that I did not know the physical differences between boys and girls until shortly before puberty. But I did know that girls and women dress differently, sound different and look different from boys and men. I also knew that boys grow up to become men and girls become women, and that I was a boy. I never had a problem knowing that then, or being referred to as such.

Yes, maybe now I feel a little more free to experiment with my hair, to buy and wear some female clothes, but isn't that all superficial?
Yes, I may have had what I thought were weird questions, fantasies, dreams, fears, thoughts etc for years, and they somehow led me to believe what I think is gender dysphoria, but seriously, is there no other explanation?
Yes, if given that option of pressing a button and becoming female in an instant, I may jump at it, but maybe it's just a case of the 'grass being greener on the other side'?
And after all this, I justify my attraction to women as my being lesbian. And I thought my wife had a 'lesbian side' too. But then, she says she is practical enough to know that is just her fantasy, and she is otherwise happy being hetero. And she doesn't want me to transition, because the cost for our social, professional and family life may just be too much. So why can't I be practical like her and put these thoughts out of my head?

Sorry for the long rant, but I just wanted to get this out of my system. Please feel free to comment. Or if anyone has any problems with what I have written, please tell me and I'll remove it.
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darkblade

Hey, I'm sort of in the same place you are, just from the FtM side of things I guess. Except I don't want to try to see if I can convince myself that I'm a "proper" girl. It's just not going to work, I've tried and failed, which is why I'm here. What I do wonder though, is that if I could express myself the way I want, dress however I want and stuff, would that make me want to transition less? I'm inclined to say no, but I don't know.

But like you say, I wonder whether I'm just exaggerating everything. I know I'm much more masculine than feminine, but I wonder whether I could be okay being a masculine female. I'd much rather be a guy than a girl, but do I actually believe that I'm a guy? I don't think so. I've never really identified anything as dysphoria before, but I think some of it was always there, like my utter dislike of dresses, frilly pink skirts and fitted outfits in general, always tended towards the more unisex/masculine side of things. Also I have vague memories of having trouble with my chest, I don't have many concrete memories but I remember once we had swimming class and all the girls had their towels wrapped around their waists while I had mine wrapped under my armpits, they asked me why and I didn't have an answer (except that I was more comfortable that way). Stuff like that make me trust that this has always been there and I'm not just making it up. It's interesting that you bring up not knowing the physical differences between males and females until puberty, because I think I didn't until I was in 7th grade and it became a topic of discussion among my classmates (was in an all-girls school). But it wasn't like I didn't know at all, it was more like I had a vague notion in the back of my head that I wasn't really aware of? It was kind of like an "oh.." moment when these conversations came up. I don't know what to make of the fact that I hadn't realized the physical differences until so late an age, but I can also say that I don't recall feeling uncomfortable or sad with the fact.

After three months of thinking about this stuff, I still have these sorts of thoughts. But more often than not, I'll end up with the conclusion that I'd much rather transition than continue life this way. The thought of becoming a guy has become a motivating force of some sort, even though right now it seems so far away and possibly won't even happen.
I'm trying to be somebody, I'm not trying to be somebody else.
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cindy16

Quote from: darkblade on February 03, 2015, 11:55:17 AM
Hey, I'm sort of in the same place you are, just from the FtM side of things I guess. Except I don't want to try to see if I can convince myself that I'm a "proper" girl. It's just not going to work, I've tried and failed, which is why I'm here. What I do wonder though, is that if I could express myself the way I want, dress however I want and stuff, would that make me want to transition less? I'm inclined to say no, but I don't know.

But like you say, I wonder whether I'm just exaggerating everything. I know I'm much more masculine than feminine, but I wonder whether I could be okay being a masculine female. I'd much rather be a guy than a girl, but do I actually believe that I'm a guy? I don't think so. I've never really identified anything as dysphoria before, but I think some of it was always there, like my utter dislike of dresses, frilly pink skirts and fitted outfits in general, always tended towards the more unisex/masculine side of things. Also I have vague memories of having trouble with my chest, I don't have many concrete memories but I remember once we had swimming class and all the girls had their towels wrapped around their waists while I had mine wrapped under my armpits, they asked me why and I didn't have an answer (except that I was more comfortable that way). Stuff like that make me trust that this has always been there and I'm not just making it up. It's interesting that you bring up not knowing the physical differences between males and females until puberty, because I think I didn't until I was in 7th grade and it became a topic of discussion among my classmates (was in an all-girls school). But it wasn't like I didn't know at all, it was more like I had a vague notion in the back of my head that I wasn't really aware of? It was kind of like an "oh.." moment when these conversations came up. I don't know what to make of the fact that I hadn't realized the physical differences until so late an age, but I can also say that I don't recall feeling uncomfortable or sad with the fact.

After three months of thinking about this stuff, I still have these sorts of thoughts. But more often than not, I'll end up with the conclusion that I'd much rather transition than continue life this way. The thought of becoming a guy has become a motivating force of some sort, even though right now it seems so far away and possibly won't even happen.

Exactly, except for looking at it from the opposite direction, I have mostly similar feelings about all this.
To add to the childhood experiences I was talking about, besides the dressing incident, I also vaguely remember trying painting one of my nails once, and maybe a bit of henna on my palms once. I never really craved to do any of these things, but I didn't hate trying them either. I never tried them again, but that's mostly because I knew I'd be given a tough time in a boys' school with such things. I am not too enthusiastic about makeup or pink dresses etc, but I know many cis women like that too, including my wife, so I don't think that means much. Or maybe it does.. I don't know.

And well, now that I look back at what I wrote in the previous post and this one, I think convincing myself about being male is not working. But then, is wanting to be something a good enough reason to actually try it? If practical reasons do not allow it, isn't there any way that I can convince myself against it? I don't know... I am just too confused.
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Miharu Barbie

You're smart, I can tell.  You're going about this process, as far as I can see, perfectly.  Just be open and honest with your therapist (and with yourself), and allow the process of self discovery to work its magic on you. 

Above all else, just keep loving yourself to the best of your ability as you move through this process.  That shouldn't be too hard to do; I don't even know you, and I love you already.

Peace!
Miharu
FEAR IS NOT THE BOSS OF ME!!!


HRT:                         June 1998
Full Time For Good:     November 1998
Never Looking Back:  Now!
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DrummerGirl

One thing I did that helped me after coming out was to tell myself to "let go".  Every time something gender related popped into my head or I was interacting with people, I would keep telling myself to "let go".  Then at night, I would find some quiet time to reflect on what happened each day and how I felt.  I wanted to be honest with myself, and this helped me tremendously with my confidence and comfort level.  I also made sure that I was open to any possibility, whether I found myself to be cis, trans, non-binary, gender fluid, etc.



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Tessa James

I think we deal with clues, ideas and a self diagnosis of transgender that is perfectly easy to have doubts about.  I appreciate your thinking aloud and sharing it Cindy.  One clue is the persistence of these 'ideas' as it does not seem to happen to cisgender people and efforts to 'be practical' like your spouse may only point to your differences?

Gender identity is intrinsic, you just feel it.  Gender behavior and appearance is IMO cultural and learned.  Yes, plenty of this is as 'superficial' as styles can be.  How many people still wear togas except to parties?
Open, out and evolving queer trans person forever with HRT support since March 13, 2013
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Rachel

Hi Cindy,

You are on a journey.

Sometimes the direction of the path changes.

It is important to keep moving forward and allow yourself  to experiment. That is very healthy.

I know many trans that are not binary. I know many that like to express in their typical birth gender for activities or cloths or makeup. It may be just on occasion or more often. It all depends on what makes you feel good about yourself. As you become more comfortable about who you are you will figure out all the details.
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cindy16

Miharu, DrummerGirl, Tessa, Cynthia: Thanks a lot for all your advice. It's really encouraging and reassuring.

I am still at a very early stage of discovering myself, so it is difficult to let go of these thoughts, whether they are based on present events or past memories.
Maybe once I get out of this constant questioning, I will be more at peace.

Though I would like to keep an open mind about my identity, I don't think I am non-binary or gender fluid (no offence meant to anyone). At least since I've realized what gender identity may really mean, I can see that in me the desire to be female, and seen and accepted as such, is clearly there and it over-rides any thoughts about my maleness.
Though I mostly accepted my 'male' identity until now, I think I always did it to stay out of trouble and because I did not fully know how it is different from sexuality, how people really go about transitioning, and that it is possible to have a regular life even after that.
So I just dismissed it as one of those random thoughts anyone may have which may seem impossible.
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Jen72

Well cindy tbh that sounds like exactly what I am thinking and really pretty early in this discovery process as well. Only thing I can add is I am waiting to get hrt and for whatever reason something is driving me to try it for a peace of mind thing. Apparantly its supposed to be a diagnostic to being dysphoric or transgender if you will in that way I feel taking it will help guide me to where to proceed. All I can say for now is the trying of the hrt is nagging me to take it yet my mind is logically saying wait this does not appear right. Really this seems like a paradox then again is that what dysphoria really is is a paradox and we are trying to find a  middle ground. Just my feelings at the moment is to proceed with an open mind and heart and see where this path leads. Hopefully the HRT will provide insight as to where I am going if that makes any sense at all. I wish you best of luck figuring this out it sure is not a sit down and figure out right away question.
For every day that stings better days it brings.
For every road that ends another will begin.

From a song called "Master of the Wind"" by Man O War.

I my opinions hurt anyone it is NOT my intent.  I try to look at things in a neutral manner but we are all biased to a degree.  If I ever post anything wrong PLEASE correct me!  Human after all.
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cindy16

@ Jen72: Thanks. I've also heard that HRT can be used as a diagnostic tool, but at the moment, I have no way of trying it out except self-medicating. And I do not want to go down that route if I can avoid it.
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Mariah

Please don't self medicate. I highly recommend that you work with a therapist in regards to this. Just because you didn't know from a young age doesn't mean your not transgendered. They're are many on this site who didn't know tell much later in life. HRT won't truly and fully help you decide this anyway because only you can. HRT only confirmed what I already knew and secondly I would have transitioned anyway regardless of HRT. I didn't fully understand the difference between sexuality and gender tell after I started my transition. It wasn't that I didn't understand the difference it was merely that I hadn't given it any thought. I avoided any relationship due to my anatomy issues in the first place that only compounded by gender issues. Hugs and good luck
Mariah
Quote from: cindy16 on February 10, 2015, 10:21:21 AM
@ Jen72: Thanks. I've also heard that HRT can be used as a diagnostic tool, but at the moment, I have no way of trying it out except self-medicating. And I do not want to go down that route if I can avoid it.
If you have any questions, please feel free to ask me.
[email]mariahsusans.orgstaff@yahoo.com[/email]
I am also spouse of a transgender person.
Retired News Administrator
Retired (S) Global Moderator
  •  

awilliams1701

You sound like your situation is very similar to mine. The only dysphoria issue I've ever had is being grossed out with my equipment during arousal. When I first started to question my gender, I asked the question is it possible to be only partially female just as you can be bi-sexual. I'm now convinced that I'm non-binary with a slight tenancy twards being female. But since I hate and always have hated what I have, I'm planning on going for the surgery in time. HRT has been great for me. Less arousal means less dysphoria. I'm happier than I've ever been in my life being able to accept myself for who I am. I don't mind telling everyone I'm female since the whole non-binary thing could be too confusing for people that barely grasp the concept of transgender in the first place.
Ashley
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cindy16

Thanks Mariah and Ashley.
I do not want to self-medicate, but I am in a bit of a fix right now.
I have not found a gender therapist yet, and the general therapist that I've been seeing is now sort of reaching the limit of how much she can help me. She has really helped me in stabilizing my thought process and dealing with my fears and concerns etc, but in terms of actual treatment of gender issues, she herself says her knowledge is limited.

She and I have been trying to find people specializing in gender issues, but with no luck yet. One specialist she spoke to had a sort of dismissive response saying this is like a fad, while two specialists I have emailed have both responded saying they have emigrated. One of them offered to do a Skype chat but that too after more than a month. I've also written to a prominent gay activist, a trans girl who narrated her experience on national television here in India, and a well-known NGO working on LGBT issues, but none of them have responded yet.

Other than these whom I have directly contacted, I have tried to search for other specialists who might be able to help, but the profiles that I find online do not inspire much confidence. I have a couple of options still left to explore but they will involve either a Skype chat (which I think might be too impersonal) or going to a really expensive hospital (my insurance plan won't cover it afaik) and possibly having to out myself with no assurance that I'll get what I need.

Also, I have a feeling that my situation may make it more difficult for any therapists to take me seriously. I am married, identify as lesbian, and want to be with my wife no matter what. My wife and I plan to have a kid in the near future, so she is obviously skeptical right now about my choosing to transition, but she has given hints that she may come to accept it later, especially after we have a kid. But I think these 'male' aspects of my personality might put off any therapist, because the only cases I have come across in India so far have all been of girls who were totally heterosexual.

Compared to all this, it is really easy to buy medicines for HRT over the counter here. I know dosages etc are not discussed here on Susan's, but I have found info about it elsewhere, and I have some idea how and where to get myself tested and what should I look out for. But I know self-medicating is not a good idea, and if I run into problems that I need medical help for, I'll be in an even bigger fix. So that's where things stand as of now.
  •  

Mariah


Quote from: cindy16 on February 10, 2015, 11:35:01 AM
Thanks Mariah and Ashley.
I do not want to self-medicate, but I am in a bit of a fix right now.
I have not found a gender therapist yet, and the general therapist that I've been seeing is now sort of reaching the limit of how much she can help me. She has really helped me in stabilizing my thought process and dealing with my fears and concerns etc, but in terms of actual treatment of gender issues, she herself says her knowledge is limited.

She and I have been trying to find people specializing in gender issues, but with no luck yet. One specialist she spoke to had a sort of dismissive response saying this is like a fad, while two specialists I have emailed have both responded saying they have emigrated. One of them offered to do a Skype chat but that too after more than a month. I've also written to a prominent gay activist, a trans girl who narrated her experience on national television here in India, and a well-known NGO working on LGBT issues, but none of them have responded yet.

Other than these whom I have directly contacted, I have tried to search for other specialists who might be able to help, but the profiles that I find online do not inspire much confidence. I have a couple of options still left to explore but they will involve either a Skype chat (which I think might be too impersonal) or going to a really expensive hospital (my insurance plan won't cover it afaik) and possibly having to out myself with no assurance that I'll get what I need.

Also, I have a feeling that my situation may make it more difficult for any therapists to take me seriously. I am married, identify as lesbian, and want to be with my wife no matter what. My wife and I plan to have a kid in the near future, so she is obviously skeptical right now about my choosing to transition, but she has given hints that she may come to accept it later, especially after we have a kid. But I think these 'male' aspects of my personality might put off any therapist, because the only cases I have come across in India so far have all been of girls who were totally heterosexual.

Compared to all this, it is really easy to buy medicines for HRT over the counter here. I know dosages etc are not discussed here on Susan's, but I have found info about it elsewhere, and I have some idea how and where to get myself tested and what should I look out for. But I know self-medicating is not a good idea, and if I run into problems that I need medical help for, I'll be in an even bigger fix. So that's where things stand as of now.
A great number of people who transition are married, consider themselves lesbians or both. You're still transgendered just those are other aspects of your life. Anyone who would diss you based on that isn't basing their judgment on facts and are not using the WPATH standards. I totally can relate to how Skype can be not as personal after having to reschedule a session after having problems with Skype. Psychology today and a local support group would be great if ways to start searching for someone who will work. Whatever you do don't give because your having trouble finding someone. I have to travel several hours to see my second therapist and first would have been the same way if I hadn't opted to use Skype.  Good luck hugs
Mariah


Sent from my Mariah's iPad using Tapatalk
If you have any questions, please feel free to ask me.
[email]mariahsusans.orgstaff@yahoo.com[/email]
I am also spouse of a transgender person.
Retired News Administrator
Retired (S) Global Moderator
  •  

Muffinheart

hi Cindy,

What you described, best described me to a T (no pun intended).
All my life I experienced the things you described, but I never, ever thought I was trans.
I'll tell you two funny things that determined why I am who I am today.

In 2007, I was on a crossdressing site, because at that time, I thought I was "just" a CD'r.
One day while chatting, a guy said something to me and I remember it like yesterday. He said: You, are not a CD. You are a woman.
I was taken aback as no one had ever said this. I never thought this.
So from this point I started to ask myself questions. It was then I sought out a gender therapist.

That first session with the therapist, I recall her saying something like "xxxx, I do not make a determination of what or who you are in one session. This will be the first of 5 sessions, at that point I'll give you my opinion."
After the first session ended, I was in tears as I had opened up about my growing up, my life, rejection and so on like I had never opened up before.
She never talked during the session, I just kept talking and talking.
As I was leaving, I begged her to tell me what she thought...and she said "you're going to love transition."
She knew, I have no idea why or what, but she knew.
Within 4 months, I was on hormones and 6 years later I'm post op.

I bet it's hard for you, or maybe not, to believe you are trans, or you're a woman, or however you want to identify.
But the fact you have these feelings tells me you have questions.
I recommend talking to someone.
It did the world for me, and today, well, life is f'n awesome because I conquered my past.

Nina
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cindy16

Thanks Mariah, and thanks Nina for sharing your touching story.

Well, even I thought until recently that I was just a CD'r, but I've now realized my feelings go much deeper than just clothing.
I took a long time to come to this point because of my sexuality, which seemed 'normal' for a 'male' all along. I now know about the WPATH standards and that I am not alone in my situation, but it's really tough to find professionals here who might understand this.

I am not sure if I am allowed to diss a specific person like this, but I'll go ahead anyway. Please see from 7:30 onwards on to get an idea of how the usual doctors working on gender identity issues here in India think. He seems to think he can change homosexuals to heterosexuals, and also seems confused between gender identity and sexual orientation. And this person is apparently one of the best known psychiatrists in Mumbai, the largest city in India. It scares me to even think about going to any of them.

As I said before, I found two people online who looked like they could understand, but both of them no longer live in India. I won't give up though, and will keep looking.

Meanwhile, I have spoken to my wife and to a therapist (she does not specialize in gender issues), and the support from both of them has so far helped me keep my mind balanced.
  •  

Jen72

Good luck and I mean good luck I pray you find some one that will help. I admit about somewhere around 10 years ago I tried a herbal mix well ok tried a couple times but the first time something did happen yet only for a short instance. I did feel great yet guilty for feeling that good and o damn I will get caught kinda thing. All that being said DO NOT try herbal its in a way worse then self meds as you do get minor effects for one and a bunch of other toxins and stuff you don't need and not exactly stable amounts on top of that. I do see as I feel now anyway self medicating in anyway just not a good idea.

As I said I pray you find someone to help you figure out well where you are going really. I have spoken to a therapist but really that was for the most part it I just talked the bugger is I think really the only person that can really answer the nagging question is you. Not saying help is not needed but maybe for the most part its self determination. I know that may seem of little aid but for now seems like all you have. Perhaps an idea if possible is to speak to a therapist via Skype or whatever may help more then you think even if just to get a start on your decision however it unfolds. I realise a real person with private conversation is better but sometimes a compromise is better then nothing at all.

Wish you luck in finding the answer you seek with whatever aid you can find wherever it comes from just remember the final answer is in your soul.

I will add that still figuring this out as well and think this is good advice but new to this too. The truth is out there or is it in us:)
For every day that stings better days it brings.
For every road that ends another will begin.

From a song called "Master of the Wind"" by Man O War.

I my opinions hurt anyone it is NOT my intent.  I try to look at things in a neutral manner but we are all biased to a degree.  If I ever post anything wrong PLEASE correct me!  Human after all.
  •  

Dierdre Lenore

Cindy,
I also stood in the cross dresser corner for an long time. Back and forth to and fro for an agonizing 10 years. At MANY times in that period my head said, "it's just easier be a boy." Now I have the freedom of self exploration, and my head hasn't said that for a while, ( even through a TERRIBLE wardrobe / hair malfunction the other day... sally forth!) Point of the matter is we are all on a journey of a very personal nature and self acceptance and honest is really all we get to bring. So to you I say Good Journey! You will land when the gears drop.
Work it in to work it out!

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Tessa James

Cindy that video was enlightening and it is a special feature of this site that there are people like you from all over the world.  I can only imagine that there are some significant challenges for you beyond finding a therapist and a prescribing physician for HRT.  A rich and colorful world with cultures and personal circumstances to negotiate.  I admire your determination and what you want seems very reasonable.
Open, out and evolving queer trans person forever with HRT support since March 13, 2013
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cindy16

@ Jen72, Pansy, Tessa: Thanks for your replies.

Tessa, I know that finding surgeons for SRS etc here will be challenging, if that's what you meant by beyond therapy and HRT. From what I know, Thailand is the preferred option here for those who can afford it, because within India, you either have super expensive hospitals which may be as costly as Thailand and with lesser experience, or you have numerous quacks who treat the 'third gender' TGs here with highly questionable results. There has been some talk of state support in some parts of the country but it's too recent and I'm not sure if I want to rely on that.
But surgery is a distant thought as of now, and being a one-time process, it is possible to go for it anywhere else in the world.

But yes, for regular stuff like therapy right now and possibly HRT later, I need to find someone within India and I am having a tough time trying to find where to begin.
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