Is "Stealth" ideal?

[Obfuskatie]

I would argue that "Stealth" status is a lot like being "Perfect," a lofty and impossible ideal.  How about finding happiness and acceptance instead?  Your thoughts and opinions are welcome, but understand I'm not debating passability for individuals.  We are all beautiful and that is not my point.

What aspects of being stealth appeal to me?
  While it's nice to think that I'd never have to deal with trans stuff at a certain point in my transition, I'd have to completely shut out my past, which arguably contributed a lot to making me who I am today.  Plus, it's kinda important to be completely forthright with my doctors.

Can't I gain many of those aspects while not passing 100%?
  At a certain point in transition a lot of us can usually blend in with cisgender society, the hard part is disclosure and who you are completely open to.

What would I have to sacrifice to gain stealth status?
  Surgery costs a lot of money, can be very painful, and doesn't always have the best results.  There is no magical cure to being trans.  Throwing money at any problem won't always make it go away.  There are other downfalls to hiding in plain sight, i.e. feeling like you have to hide for instance.  What happens if you get outed?

Would I still let myself be myself as stealth, or would I be too busy policing how I act?
  The less naturally you act in daily life, the more you are going to draw negative attention to yourself.  If you want to completely redefine yourself once you hit some ideal point in your transition and just hide your trans status, by all means do so.  However you'll have to avoid all of your past or any situations where you might out yourself.

I nearly post this as a response to another thread, but realized it diverged enough from the topic that I wanted to start another thread.  In particular, I was responding to bluebirdx88's response to a post I made.

Thank you so much Honestly, having been living as me fulltime for five years prior to starting HRT.... Passing isn't the top priority in my mind... And as I mentioned previously I don't tend to have an issue with people who don't know me (Unless I talk too much... Then my voice becomes obvious..)  However, I would very much like to be what people call 'stealth' someday, including those who know me, which is why I asked...  The truth is how my close friends view me has a high influence on my self esteem, and double standards among my girl-friends whilst I try to not make a big deal or mention it, do make me fee quite low... So if you say that FFS helps in the regard to how people who already know you view you.... I really do need it :/

First, you're welcome 

I'm kinda worried about the statement "I need FFS," however.  I think it would be easier to simply get better friends who are more accepting.  Microaggressions are a big deal, and you need to address them and tell your friends to stop when they make you uncomfortable.  It seems to me, that having been fulltime for 5 years, your transition so far has been very successful and stable.  And any friend that hasn't acclimated to perceiving you as female in these 5 years, is a bad friend IMO.  You are welcome to PM me if you'd like to talk in greater detail about this if it is too personal to include as a forum post.

The reason FFS caused such a shift in the way people view me, (my mom for instance) is mostly because they quickly saw how determined I was.  I put myself through something extremely painful and costly to subtly alter my appearance.  People who know me the best have seen me act wishy washy in the past, but the determination I've displayed in my transition has convinced them I wasn't dabbling in something I'd regret in the future.  I've also noticed that they are much more supportive after having seen how much happier I am now compared to before.  However, when my girlfriend/roommate saw me struggling with crippling social anxiety last year, she and her boyfriend were much less sure of how well I was handling my transition.  Much of the worst of my social anxiety is gone now that I'm presenting full-time.  Stealth-transition was a terrible idea in my case, because it made me feel like I had to hide all the time.  

Also keep in mind that I hated how I looked the first time I looked in the mirror after my FFS.  But that's because I was used to hating what I saw in the mirror and had nothing to do with how successful the surgery was.  I have since reevaluated my outcome and am getting to a place where I am happy with my reflection.  I am still incredibly critical of myself, I doubt that will change much in the future no matter how self-assured I may become.

I think one of the harder things to do is to reconcile yourself to losing friends.  When you're trans, it can feel like culling friendships will hurt more since we heavily rely on them for support.  Especially if you are like me and have issues with social anxiety, making new friends can be nerve-wracking.  Still, I plan on continuing to disclose my trans-status to people I am close with, because it's part of who I am even if it doesn't define me.  In a few years, after my SRS, I may change my mind and not tell new friends or colleagues, but I doubt it.  And I can't imagine not telling a future S/O.  I need acceptance too much in my relationships to be willing to possibly blind-side a future boyfriend.

One of my favorite explanations for transitioning is that the we are learning to become our authentic self.  I don't see any point in a transition that leaves me equally afraid to let people find out too much about me.

Take care y'all, mwa, 
- Katie

[Zumbagirl]

Forget about the words. Concentrate of what level of life do you want to lead? It's whatever makes you personally the happiest in the end that matters. Even when you get to the point in life where trans issues are no longer issues, you will still be who you are.

If you are a happy, well rounded likable person then people will be attracted to you. People like being around other happy people.

I live a quiet comfortable life without many people knowing "my secret". It's not so much that I am hiding anything, I am just choosing not to reveal certain aspects of my past to people selectively. Whatever floats your boat is the winning answer.

[ImagineKate]

I've been thinking about this a lot and deep stealth for me is nearly impossible but I can do some degree of stealth.

For me the idea is I don't want someone to focus on me as a trans woman. I want them to see a woman, period. I don't want to go around explaining what I once presented as and give a lesson in ->-bleeped-<-  to everyone I know. I've had a few incidents lately that have given me a taste of this and I admit that I do find it very appealing to hide my trans status once I go full time. I may even find another job and start fresh.

[Ms Grace]

Personally I would think trying to be deep stealth would leave me in a constant state of nervous panic that something or someone could out me at any second. I prefer living semi-out, people find out on a need to know basis.

[Obfuskatie]

I've been thinking about this a lot and deep stealth for me is nearly impossible but I can do some degree of stealth.

For me the idea is I don't want someone to focus on me as a trans woman. I want them to see a woman, period. I don't want to go around explaining what I once presented as and give a lesson in ->-bleeped-<-  to everyone I know. I've had a few incidents lately that have given me a taste of this and I admit that I do find it very appealing to hide my trans status once I go full time. I may even find another job and start fresh.

Amen.  I like to put it this way:
  I AM a woman.  Cis-people call me trans.

Personally I would think trying to be deep stealth would leave me in a constant state of nervous panic that something or someone could out me at any second. I prefer living semi-out, people find out on a need to know basis.

Thats how I feel as well.

[Lady_Oracle]

My transition will be over once I have bottom surgery. Anyways regarding stealth I'm technically living stealth to a certain degree. I have the privilege of disclosing to new people I meet since I look "cis" It's quite nice honestly but at the same time I do disclose to someone if I know we're going to date/be intimate. To me that's the only time I feel like I need to disclose especially since I'm still pre-op. The way I see it, my transition is the medical process I'm undergoing to fix whats wrong with my mind and body. Whenever I come out to people this is what I tell them and so it makes it easier for them grasp the thought of transitioning from that perspective instead of them looking at it like its some "lifestyle choice" since its a necessary process for me to live a full, happy and healthy life.

[pebbles]

I was stealth for a period of time. After I graduated uni I didn't tell anyone I was trans yet I still had contact with some people who'd known me from before. so not deep stealth but mostly.

It might well be right for some people but I decided I didn't need it. It's quite stressful keeping track of what certain groups of people know. So you've got to be careful about say your work colleagues meeting a friend from your childhood.

when you have new friends, getting to know one another can be quite hard because you might say discuss your childhoods and they will be honest and might even tell you something deep painful and personal from there own story. And you can't draw from your own experiences to empathize... Because your stealth.

I don't know about your personal stories but mine was extreme even without the trans stuff at times reads more like a novel. But instead your like
"Nothing much happened..."
(can't mention the bullying cuz why they were targeting me can't mention why I did X from a male perspective which caused Y to happen after Z and then I was arrested.) Everything in the past "Redacted" sticker on it. Editing doesn't really work either because it feels slightly dishonest. Omitting is difficult because if you tell the same story to someone else other facts might be omitted differently, if they ask for clarification what do you do then?

Other issues come up when you and your friends encounter another transwoman who isn't passable per say. they make remarks sometimes out of naivety more than anything truly vindictive, and you defend her but you've got to be careful on your own commitment, lest you show your hand.

The final struggle comes when circumstances change and your new friends move away for new things. It's that sad/happy you get, And they say "I'm glad I got to know you" and you feel a pang of guilt...

"How much did you ever know me?"

[Obfuskatie]

I was stealth for a period of time. After I graduated uni I didn't tell anyone I was trans yet I still had contact with some people who'd known me from before. so not deep stealth but mostly.

It might well be right for some people but I decided I didn't need it. It's quite stressful keeping track of what certain groups of people know. So you've got to be careful about say your work colleagues meeting a friend from your childhood.

when you have new friends, getting to know one another can be quite hard because you might say discuss your childhoods and they will be honest and might even tell you something deep painful and personal from there own story. And you can't draw from your own experiences to empathize... Because your stealth.

I don't know about your personal stories but mine was extreme even without the trans stuff at times reads more like a novel. But instead your like
"Nothing much happened..."
(can't mention the bullying cuz why they were targeting me can't mention why I did X from a male perspective which caused Y to happen after Z and then I was arrested.) Everything in the past "Redacted" sticker on it. Editing doesn't really work either because it feels slightly dishonest. Omitting is difficult because if you tell the same story to someone else other facts might be omitted differently, if they ask for clarification what do you do then?

Other issues come up when you and your friends encounter another transwoman who isn't passable per say. they make remarks sometimes out of naivety more than anything truly vindictive, and you defend her but you've got to be careful on your own commitment, lest you show your hand.

The final struggle comes when circumstances change and your new friends move away for new things. It's that sad/happy you get, And they say "I'm glad I got to know you" and you feel a pang of guilt...

"How much did you ever know me?"

The reason I decided to transition was because I wanted people to meet the authentic me.  To finally feel comfortable in my own skin.  To stop hiding from everyone.

*Trigger Warning!*
At my rock bottom, I made a deal with myself, that I'd postpone suicide and at least try transitioning first.  I had been too afraid to transition because I didn't want to disappoint my family, but I knew it would destroy them if I did kill myself.  It finally clicked for me when I realized my not letting anyone in meant that no-one really knew me.  I was compelled to change that, no matter how terrified I was initially.
I used to think of my body as a husk I was trapped in.  My family's acceptance is the only reason I'm here today.  And I've come a LONG way since then.

Sorry if I got a little too real for a moment, I generally like to be upbeat when I post.  But it feels wrong to edit out words that made me choke back tears.  Not when I want to be forthright.  I wish there were a BBCode for hidden spoiler text, it would be better for trigger warnings.
  Hugs,
- Katie

[ReDucks]

I don't believe any one approach is 'ideal', but if you transition, get your docs changed, live life without it coming up, are liked by others and successful in your chosen field, I don't see a reason to bring up your gender past, any more than someone should feel compelled to bring up a child given up for adoption or an arrest for joyriding. 

Even if someone knows, or thinks they do, there is no less reason to be 'proud and unashamed' if you are stealth than if you are out front with everyone.  It isn't any different with people who know or learn of it no matter how it comes up. 

After a while, the feeling of being 'stealth' or an imposter, or hiding a secret or whatever feeling someone might describe it as just goes away and you don't feel hostage to it any more. 

You are no more 'in the closet' than anyone else for not talking about it, you come out of the closet forever the day you tell yourself the truth and decide to do something about it.  The rest is just scope creep.

[Lady_Oracle]

Nice way of putting it ReDucks! That's exactly how I feel about it. I don't have any shame at all. At the stage I'm at, its just one of those things that doesn't really come up anymore other than specific situations.

[cindianna_jones]

My family knows, my closest friends know. I did tell my husband while we were dating. He told me he loved me all the more for telling him the truth. 22 years later he used it against me to ask for a divorce. So, go figure.

If you go stealth, you have a giant hole in your life. You'll need your family members all in line with the correct pronouns. Or, you'll need to abandon them altogether.

Total stealth is fine if you pass well and your surgery was done well in terms of intimacy. But remember an untold truth is a lie, especially to someone you love.

So here were my rules:

- At work: total stealth
- At home: only talk about it when necessary
- With MY family: anything is fair season
- His family: total stealth

Now that I am getting divorced, I may have a discussion with his son. He's in his thirties now and has always called me Mom. I consider him my son. I feel like I have a truth untold. But perhaps it makes no difference at this point. He and his family live in another state now and we don't get too many chances to get together.

[ReDucks]

My family knows, my closest friends know. I did tell my husband while we were dating. He told me he loved me all the more for telling him the truth. 22 years later he used it against me to ask for a divorce. So, go figure.

If you go stealth, you have a giant hole in your life. You'll need your family members all in line with the correct pronouns. Or, you'll need to abandon them altogether.

Total stealth is fine if you pass well and your surgery was done well in terms of intimacy. But remember an untold truth is a lie, especially to someone you love.

So here were my rules:

- At work: total stealth
- At home: only talk about it when necessary
- With MY family: anything is fair season
- His family: total stealth

Now that I am getting divorced, I may have a discussion with his son. He's in his thirties now and has always called me Mom. I consider him my son. I feel like I have a truth untold. But perhaps it makes no difference at this point. He and his family live in another state now and we don't get too many chances to get together.

I hope you come out well in the divorce, depending on where you live, it could be quite horrible for you and you may even lose all of your right to things you would be entitled to if you were cis, perhaps even have your marriage annulled.  I really hope you end up OK!

Your story is a strong case for never telling anyone, even if it means you have an 'untold truth'... who among us doesn't have at least one or two of those?  I hope my spouse never does the same to me!  That's one more reason not to live in the 32 states that allow discrimination against trans people.

[cindianna_jones]

I'm out on the west coast. My state protects my rights. I'll be fine. Finances will be tight for a while until l can sell my house. It's a bit of a white elephant in that it has a lot of land. Banks don't like to lend on land. It makes them nervous since they have no comparative sales.

[Jill F]

I don't exactly walk around with a neon sign that says "I'm trans!", but it's no secret either.   I transitioned in plain sight and have no plans to move away.  I am also permanently done with lies and secrets.  I honestly don't have it in me to hide who I am any longer.  Once I was finally able to "Jillax", I just couldn't picture ever hiding again.

[Megan Rose]

As someone who transitioned in their 60's, stealth is not an option, there's just too much history as him.   It was good to change jobs afterwards, where I could leave him behind for a big portion of my life.   

I'm accepted wherever I go, and I'm not going to volunteer anything unless asked.   But, I feel no shame in being trans, and will freely talk about it if asked. 

[ReDucks]

Cindi, good!  My place has land as well, and we're getting ready to downsize.  I hope it sells!

Jill, good!    Do you mind being introduced that way to strangers?  I don't think I'd like that or like walking into a room full of strangers or walk down a street knowing everyone knew, and wondering which guy might hurt me because of my gender history.  That said, if I didn't pass well, being known by all as trans would probably be safer.

[ReDucks]

As someone who transitioned in their 60's, stealth is not an option, there's just too much history as him.   It was good to change jobs afterwards, where I could leave him behind for a big portion of my life.   

I'm accepted wherever I go, and I'm not going to volunteer anything unless asked.   But, I feel no shame in being trans, and will freely talk about it if asked.

Megan Rose, I know what you mean about it being good to change jobs, I was fired from a job because some guy thought I was trans and wouldn't leave me alone.  When I complained to HR, they fired both of us.  Those were the bad old days when it was totally acceptable to discriminate based on gender.  The only plus was that they bribed me not to sue them with a severance package that got me into my first house. (had to sign away my right to sue to get it)

A couple times in the last 25 years someone has asked me if I was, and I just changed the subject or said none of your biz.  My experience from telling my family and 2 close friends is that everyone who knows will end up being the same as telling 10 people, but you only have the choice of telling the first person and whoever they tell has no attachment to you or any context, so the story becomes a big game of telephone where by the end, god knows what people think of you.  If I don't confirm or deny, I feel like I'm safer as they don't know anything for sure.

Everyone is different, there is no ideal way to do this.  If I ever come out broadly I want it to count for something, not just be a public pantsing for someone's titillation

[Erica_Y]

Is Stealth ideal?

I suppose it depends on your particular situation and what you want or need. I think there is a difference between getting treated with respect and tolerance and getting treated as female in my experience. I have been totally stealth till I cannot be. I have kids and because of situational circumstances I have been needing to out myself numerous times in the last 6 months part of being a parent. I wish I did not have to but I needed to so I did. In the last 3 weeks it has been daily as I have a child in the hospital.

To me Stealth guarantees full female experience the good and not so good, not Stealth is something else and becomes situational and potentially inconsistent in many ways to how things go at any one time or another.

[Eveline]

To me, it seems like any gains from going "stealth" have to be weighed against what will be lost - job history, social media history, friends and family, etc.

For some, that may be a good tradeoff. For others, especially late transitioners (like me), not so much.

Also, I'm kind of amused at my own evolving thoughts on going stealth. Before transition, I was thinking, "poor me, I waited too long, it's just not possible". Now it's more like, "I don't care who knows as long as they don't beat me up".

[Tori]

I am VERY out to my friends and family, but in public, stealth does feel safer.