Choosing between transition and marriage?

[cindy16]

No, this is not a choice I am facing right now. My wife and I are happy with each other and still taking it slow and still living our usual lives.

However, I did face a couple of questions regarding this from my therapist today. He had been asking me a lot about my relationship with my wife, her reactions to my 'cross-dressing' and what parts of my being trans and transitioning is she okay with. Then he put it down in the form of 2 simple questions:

1.) Suppose you have been on HRT for several months, have fixed a date for surgery, and your wife has been supportive all along. Then she tells you not to go ahead with the surgery. What would you do?
2.) Suppose she decides right now that anything other than 'cross-dressing' is not OK and she can't live with it. What would you do?

I said I'll choose my marriage in the first case, and transition in the second. And here is the reason.
For me, it is not about 'cross-dressing' any more. I am sure enough about my gender identity and that I cannot live on as 'male' for the rest of my life. Hence I've already started with laser, have clearly told my wife I am considering HRT, and that I would want to eventually transition socially and legally. If it's not possible where we are, or if recognition of our marriage is a problem, we can try emigrating as well. She is still not sure whether her opposition to HRT and further steps is because of what others will say where we are, or if she can't live with a woman at all, i.e. will she be OK with it if we are in a more open and accepting place where being lesbian or trans is not such a big deal?
Given this situation, if she goes back to the scenario in question 2, I don't think I could deal with suppressing myself to that extent. Hence I would choose transition.

Now about question 1, I can understand that even if someone can accept everything else, wrapping one's mind around something as major as a partner getting SRS can still be daunting. I would have ideally liked to go far enough that I could be able to bear my own kids, but I know that's currently medically impossible, so I wouldn't mind adding SRS also to the list of things I can't have and putting it aside. Also, being lesbian and more importantly wanting to be with my wife for good, I do not see it as absolutely necessary.
On the other hand, I do see it as an important step in completing the transition journey, and if it remains a legal requirement and may make a difference to being accepted or being safer etc, I would want to go for it. But if it comes down to a choice like the one above, I would rather save my marriage.

I know my responses may be atypical, but I thought it's better to just be truthful to the therapist instead of just saying what we think they want to hear. I also told my wife about this and she seemed a bit upset about my answer to question 2, but then I think she got over it.
What do you'll think about these two questions and my responses?

[Mariah]

I have been fortunate to not have to make the choices between marriage and my transition since I never did marry anyone, but if I was faced with the situation your in I feel I would have pretty much said what you did in response to those 2 questions. Ultimately you and you alone will decide what you need and what may or may not happen to your marriage as a result. Good luck. I hope your able to keep your marriage and transition.
Mariah

[sam1234]

What you do with your life when you are on your own is much simpler than when you already have a strong relationship and don't want to lose that person. Sometimes you don't know what you would really do until it happens. You answered honestly with the information you have at the time and the way things are currently going. The only person who can judge you is you.

People have different limits as to what they can live with and what they can't. For some cis women, the connection is stronger than  the body you have. For others, getting past winding up in a same sex marriage just isn't something they can live with. Things change, and what your wife feels today may change in a few months. It may not. As long as you keep an open line of communication, even if she decides its too much, it won't be a sudden shock and hopefully you will be able to have an amicable divorce and stay good friends. I hope that isn't the case and you will both be ok with your transition and can stay together.

sam1234

[cindy16]

Thanks Mariah and Sam.
I am hoping so too.

My wife does indicate that it is more about issues with others rather than her own preference which makes her oppose my transition, but then she says this is all too much for her to wrap her head around right now. She wants a simple life without attracting too much attention or being too radical or anything. She thinks I used to be a very simple person who has suddenly become very complex, but I tell her this complexity and my personality has always been the same. It's just that I am now working with different information.

[barbie]

Transgender people tend to be introvert, focusing only on themselves, sometimes overlooking the responses and emotion of their significant others.

In my case, several years ago, I got a permission letter from the psychologist to undergo HRT, but the surgeon said to me that he will do if I come again with my wife and she consents. Eventually I gave up HRT. I have 3 kids, and my wife is very supportive of me regarding my gender issue.

The surgeon is the most prestigious guy here in my country regarding SRS. http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2014/04/01/world/asia/ap-as-skorea-transgender-surgeon.html
As he was such a experienced surgeon, knowing very well possible responses of the wife and the consequences. Transition is a serious issue in determining the status and well-being of a family.

HRT is far different and a grave change for your SOs to accept and live with. Your wife wanted to live with a man, not a woman.

It is your choice, but if you can manage to live by just crossdressing like me, you can have both your wife and your happiness.

In any case, do not hurry. Your wife needs a lot of time to digest your change and figure out her future and choices.

barbie~~

[Robyn]

How easily one can deny transition varies from person to person, but the urge, the need, grows with age. At some point, the need can become overwhelming. Hopefully by then the spouse will understand and accept before the situation becomes life threatening.

Robyn, the elder

[mfox]

She is still not sure whether her opposition to HRT and further steps is because of what others will say where we are, or if she can't live with a woman at all, i.e. will she be OK with it if we are in a more open and accepting place where being lesbian or trans is not such a big deal?  Given this situation, if she goes back to the scenario in question 2, I don't think I could deal with suppressing myself to that extent. Hence I would choose transition.

That's a good point Cindy, it's so important to talk about the reasons, and find what would be crossing the line.  I don't see how a relationship would survive long term anyway, if a partner has to suffer in the pain of dysphoria.

[stephaniec]

I've never been married , so I've never had to make that choice. I think it would be such a torment . I've been a lone the majority of my life and always deeply desired to find someone. For me the decision to transition was quite easy because I had no other considerations, but knowing what it's like to be alone and always desiring to be married that decision would tear me apart.

[Jenna Marie]

I think the most encouraging part is where you immediately went home and told your wife about it. As long as you're communicating well and still in love, your marriage is still solid.

(It doesn't matter what your answers are, as it's *your* life; it matters that you're honest with yourself and with her, and you have been.)

If it helps her, feel free to tell her you know at least one person - me - who has gone on to have the same boring, simple, normal life post-transition as before. I'm doing it living as a woman, and I'm happier, but nothing about being trans means you "have to" have some kind of giant ongoing drama. We're also still happily married, and while it was a stressful year or so, our marriage is stronger than ever.

[Deinewelt]

I hope I don't have to choose.  I tried to be as up front with my wife throughout dating and marriage.  Shes been super supportive and I am now in the process.  I think that if we reach a point and there is a backlash, we will probably be able to come to some sort of compromise- like I go low dose HRT for the time being.

As far as she has communicated, the only question is if SRS is going to be okay or not.  In the end I can give up quite a bit, but I honestly think I need, at least a compromise of low dose HRT to alleviate my gender issues if it came down to it.  At least this way, I can be making small progress and not be basically going backwards.

I don't think that will have to be the case though as we are not a typical couple and have been very open and accepting about my preferred role as a woman since we have been together. 

[suzifrommd]

What do you'll think about these two questions and my responses?

It's a great exercise, but there's so much unpredictable about how a marriage will stand up to transition, I think it's hard to say really how it would be. My reaction to question 2 was exactly the same. In the end, it did destroy a good marriage (though it had been going downhill before the whole gender thing).

As for question 1, that's highly individual. Need for SRS ranges from "suicide or surgery" to "I've always kind of wanted it" (I'm definitely the second). Only you know where on that range you fit. But I would have chosen what you did.

I hope it goes well. Good luck.

[JoanneB]

First off, I'll voice an opinion on Scenario #1. Start HRT and several months later SRS??? I would not blame her at all for wanting to put the brakes on big time! Heck, my wife is the one who told me it would be OK with her if I started HRT, yet 2 years later the girls are upseting, but not nearly as much as learning just how much I love the changes. As in I am past the point of being able to stop if push came to shove. An option I put on the table several times in the past during my "WTF am I Doing " meltdowns. In #1 time is an ally. It allows your partner to adjust, absorb, and get a handle on something totally foreign to them. Something that you had spent a lifetime barely getting a handle on.

In the "Village" where we live, just 5 miles from New York City, the people and their attitudes are far from open and accepting. I felt safer in rural West Virginia, aka hillbilly country, then I do where we live. Our near/long term plan is to ditch this town, and our properties here asap. Her health needs keep anything from happening quickly. Getting away from here will allow me the opportunity to go back to part-time living. As well as the opportunity for her to see what life living with another woman might be like for her.

Thirty years ago is where my wife and both were in the Scenario #2 situation. I had "Experimented" twice with transition. Experiments and details of which she knew of very early on in our relationship. At that time I truely felt there was absolutely no way I could, therefore wanted to even think again about transitioning. I felt my fate was sealed between my physical features and  other life desires which took higher priority. Even today I do not regret that decision. I honestly felt that the ocassional cross-dressing was all that I needed to help keep the beast at bay. If I dared to persevere and keep up with a transition I'd likely be dead today. No way was I emotionally and spiritually equipped to take on the task.

Today, I know all too painfully well I cannot go back to that. It is not enough. I learned where my true joy lies. I am finally alive after a lifetime of being undead. Even my now few hours monthly of feeling totally genuine barely keeps me going. And that is on top of being able to present as Joanne at home. The peasants will not take long to gather up the pitch forks and torches to kill the monster if she dared to venture outside these four walls. But no matter. I know with all my heart my wife will never ask such a thing of me. Like me she places my happiness above her own. She also deeply feels that me taking the path I am had to of meant suicide became a very viable option vs such a major break from the past. So far, I don't see Scenario #2 being a possibility. But if it did come to that... I just don't know. I live in fear of "Reverting" back into that person I was. The past 3 months now of missing my group meetings has dredged up all sorts of fears and doubts. It also is awakening the devil sitting on my shoulder that shouts "You can stop this craziness". So far my angels and Joannes voices can shout it down. Add in my wife's teary voice to the devils shouts... I'd likely capitulate. Then it becomes a question of how long before I break.... one way or the other 

[Rachel]

Your therapist is doing a good job by asking you questions that make you think about the future. You are doing the right thing by discussing it with your wife.

If you go on HRT for a while you may develop a different perspective about the future, as well as your wife.

[TransSasha]

Definitely a hard question to answer. What I have noticed though is that once alot of us mtf even become aware of the concept of HRT, its hard to let go, or to not want to atleast try it. That urge is only going to grow with time (especially when you're online and are seeing a ton of amazing transformations). I feel like once you even start to consider transition a possibility, its only a matter of time...

[cindy16]

Thanks everyone for the replies.

Transgender people tend to be introvert, focusing only on themselves, sometimes overlooking the responses and emotion of their significant others.

On the contrary, I feel that my wife and I are more worried about each other than about our own feelings towards this, which is making it more complex.

HRT is far different and a grave change for your SOs to accept and live with. Your wife wanted to live with a man, not a woman.
It is your choice, but if you can manage to live by just crossdressing like me, you can have both your wife and your happiness.
In any case, do not hurry. Your wife needs a lot of time to digest your change and figure out her future and choices.

I agree, which is why we are both taking time to sort it out in our heads. Maybe a year, maybe more.

I think the most encouraging part is where you immediately went home and told your wife about it. As long as you're communicating well and still in love, your marriage is still solid.

(It doesn't matter what your answers are, as it's *your* life; it matters that you're honest with yourself and with her, and you have been.)

If it helps her, feel free to tell her you know at least one person - me - who has gone on to have the same boring, simple, normal life post-transition as before. I'm doing it living as a woman, and I'm happier, but nothing about being trans means you "have to" have some kind of giant ongoing drama. We're also still happily married, and while it was a stressful year or so, our marriage is stronger than ever.

Thanks for the encouragement.
About our lives not being an ongoing drama, well the thing is that same-sex relationships have no recognition here, so trying to live that way will have its own set of issues. Yes there are same-sex couples who stay together regardless, and there are people who have transitioned and live 'normal' lives, but I am yet to find both these things happening with the same person. Anyway, I don't see it as a reason anymore that will stop me. If I need to push my way through to get accepted, I'll do so.

First off, I'll voice an opinion on Scenario #1. Start HRT and several months later SRS???

Joanne, actually it was the therapist who posed this question, and he did not specify a timeline. It could be after a few months or a few years of HRT, but his point was about making a final choice between SRS or marriage, and not just delaying the decision.

Definitely a hard question to answer. What I have noticed though is that once alot of us mtf even become aware of the concept of HRT, its hard to let go, or to not want to atleast try it. That urge is only going to grow with time (especially when you're online and are seeing a ton of amazing transformations). I feel like once you even start to consider transition a possibility, its only a matter of time...

I agree. I have been aware of the existence of transgender people since childhood, but where I live, they are treated as a 'third gender' and many people tend to conflate them with intersex conditions or something else. I have also been aware for a long time of what was earlier called 'sex change surgery', but to me it seemed like a crazily difficult and expensive and risky process. Even a famous trans actress here apparently backed off in the middle of her transition. I also knew about hormones, but besides their use in cis people for various conditions, I only knew of Alan Turing's story, who became depressed and obese because of this 'punishment' for being gay.
Only a few months ago, I discovered the concept of HRT as it applies to MtF transitions, saw some of those transformations, understood how the brain and body can be differently wired, read about other 'late onset' cases like mine and realized my feelings were real and valid. And only then could I begin to accept myself, but now I also cannot see any other way out.

[Jenna Marie]

Cindy : Hm, good point. I'd totally overlooked that possibility, and I'm sorry for that. You've found both in one person now... but we live somewhere that same-sex marriage has been accepted since the beginning (Boston, MA) and I'm sure that does make a huge difference. Still, I admire your fortitude, and I'm sure that you can manage to build an otherwise drama-free life for her; it's just a shame that other people may try to interfere.

[cindy16]

Cindy : Hm, good point. I'd totally overlooked that possibility, and I'm sorry for that. You've found both in one person now... but we live somewhere that same-sex marriage has been accepted since the beginning (Boston, MA) and I'm sure that does make a huge difference. Still, I admire your fortitude, and I'm sure that you can manage to build an otherwise drama-free life for her; it's just a shame that other people may try to interfere.

Oh, you don't need to say sorry. 
Btw, this point and Barbie's earlier point about managing only with cross-dressing reminds me of a trend I have seen here, that even those who successfully transition and are accepted still have to fit into a hetero-normative society.

For example, see this: http://www.mid-day.com/articles/five-years-at-iit-a-degree-and-a-new-gender-identity/15096063

For instance, how difficult it was for the alumnus, who now works with an IT firm in Mumbai, to get her landlord and housing society members to understand that sex change was her choice.
"In my building there was a huge controversy over my transition and I was asked to leave my apartment. My parents helped me out here a lot. They convinced the building's secretary, the landlord and the society members to let me stay at least till my surgery. After my surgery, none of them had any problem with my staying anyway, since I am now a "normal" woman. I now have a renewed contract with my landlord, with my new name, addressing me as Ms instead of Mr," she says.

It seems to suggest that people are willing to accept it as a medical condition which requires a 'complete' change, but while one is in the process or if one goes halfway or has an added factor like sexuality or something else which is not 'normal', then one can expect even more trouble.

[ainsley]

...well the thing is that same-sex relationships have no recognition here, so trying to live that way will have its own set of issues.

I live in Missouri and my wife and I worried about this when I had my gender legally changed to female in court.  She (my lawyer) told me that my marriage 25 years ago is a contract that Missouri cannot just no longer honor and it changes nothing in our marital status in this state--A state that does not recognize same-sex marriage.  You should talk with a law professional to see how it would be for you in your state.

[cindy16]

I live in Missouri and my wife and I worried about this when I had my gender legally changed to female in court.  She (my lawyer) told me that my marriage 25 years ago is a contract that Missouri cannot just no longer honor and it changes nothing in our marital status in this state--A state that does not recognize same-sex marriage.  You should talk with a law professional to see how it would be for you in your state.

Thanks Ainsley, but I am in a different country, India, where the laws are uniformly non-accepting. I will try to find a lawyer who is supportive and try to figure this out when the time comes. I don't think this question has ever come up in our courts but I think the same principle might apply here - that the contract remains valid based on what was true at the time it was made.

[ainsley]

Thanks Ainsley, but I am in a different country, India, where the laws are uniformly non-accepting. I will try to find a lawyer who is supportive and try to figure this out when the time comes. I don't think this question has ever come up in our courts but I think the same principle might apply here - that the contract remains valid based on what was true at the time it was made.

OIC.  Could be a bit different, then, eh? 
Good luck!