I Hope Someone Will Listen to Me and Tell Me If I'm Being a Jerk

[Mizanthropist]

Hello everyone!

I just signed up on these forums. I'm a cis-woman and heterosexual, but I really need to talk to some good-hearted, experienced transgendered people and I don't have anyone to turn to.

I have a treasured old friend named Alex who identified as male, but has recently discovered that she is actually a she. (I hope I said that right. Alex identifies as female is my point - and she still goes by Alex.) When she first told me, I was so happy and excited. We had fought and not spoken in years and I had recently reached out to her. We had just become good friends again and here she was - trusting me as one of the first people she told. I thought that she had always suspected / known and was just now coming out / starting to transition now that she was going to college in Ontario. (We met in Miami. She's a Miami native of Puerto Rican and Cuban origin, so as you may imagine, she grew up in a very conservative atmosphere. It makes a lot of sense that she wouldn't come out until she was away from Miami.)

However, she told me that she had just began to suspect that she was trangender about a month before hand. She mentioned that she had always had a secret fetish for cross dressing and always liked soft skin, but otherwise, she hadn't had any sense of "not liking maleness" or "preferring femaleness" or that anything related to gender was off. Other important details: she's in her late 20s and has always had problems maintaining relationships of any kind. When I knew her in Miami she wasn't interested in anything social justice (she wasn't against social justice - she just didn't notice things like how race or sex is portrayed in the media). Now that she's in Ontario, she's joined about 100 (no joke) social justice groups (mostly online, but a few IRL). Close to 100% of her online (and offline) friends are angry (in all honesty they are) people who speak about various social justice issues.

I hope no one jumps to hating me before I finish reading, but:
I get that some people grow up without knowing what "transgender" is - that it's even a thing a person can be. (Although I doubt Alex grew up not knowing.) I get that people can come to the realization that they are transgender later in life. My issue is that (by everything I've been told) Alex had zero feelings of "my body isn't right" or "I wish I could do thing X that is considered female" or anything until a couple of months ago. After she joined a bunch of trans support groups. And now she's this really cared for member because she's now transgender too.  ...And she has a history of not fitting in and really suffering emotionally because of it.

I'm willing to be wrong. But neither I, nor my therapist, nor anyone else who might have expertise in this area that I have encountered has heard of a transgender person who  didn't have any signs until their late 20s. Maybe they didn't fully connect the dots and realize they were transgender. Maybe they didn't start their transition until they were in their late 20s. But all of them had a feeling of "not quite right" since very early childhood. That is *the* basic criteria for being transgender.

Maybe Alex never told me some basic bit of compelling evidence, but as far as I know, it was "no reason to think anything is wrong" to "I'm totally transgender" rather suddenly.

And for this reason, I have my misgivings. Again, if Alex is transgender, I have no problem with that - I just worry that she's not transgender and is throwing all of this energy into fixing an issue that she doesn't actually have when there are other issues that she really needs help with.

A couple of other things:
- Alex' therapist (that prescribes the hormones for HRT) has noted some of the same things I have and wants to do some sessions to basically make sure she has body dysmorphia (sorry if not spelled properly) and not something else. Alex spends a good amount of time ranting online about how this means the doctor is secretly transphobic. Now I get that transphobia exists and that a lot of people have experienced it first hand, but this doctor has given out HRT before (so it's not like she's some uber religious woman who will always say no or something). I get the impression that it's something like this: "If a child comes into my office with a bunch of bruises and a father that has documented drug abuse and violent crime issues, I'm going to ask a lot of questions before I give this kids some pain pills and send him off. Similarly, when I see that you had none of those feelings of "my body isn't quite right" that basically define being transgender until a couple of months ago, I'm going to ask some questions before I just hand you some drugs." I could be wrong, but it appears that this is the situation. Alex refuses to listen to the doctor or me about this reasoning and just sees it all as transphobic.

- Alex has social issues. In Miami, Alex had few friends and more than one woman told her that she was creepy. Alex' idea of communicating with her family (who is conservative, but isn't like Westboro Baptist Church or anything) is to scream at them until they give up on a conversation. She doesn't get when she's hurting their feelings and can't communicate with them without anger (and this is her words, not even mine). Her current boss (she's going for a PhD and works in a lab) is a jerk to her about getting her reports in on time and making sure that she sets the machines up right. She has no clue how to deal with it and both of these scenarios make her shut down. Also, when someone shows her (compassionately) the wholes in her logic (like above with 'maybe the doctor isn't transphobic and just wants to make sure that she gets the right diagnosis') she will yell that you are "triggering" her and giving her panic attacks. Now, I completely understand that being shown a flaw in your logic is upsetting, but I actually have (diagnosed) panic disorders. Alex isn't getting panic attacks. She's just upset and doesn't want to hear the holes in her logic. (I'm saying that in complete honesty.) I say all this because I honest to goodness have reason to believe that Alex has issues maintaining relationships and dealing with conflict - before we even get to any transgender conflict she will encounter.

- Alex told her therapist all of this and more and her therapist (reasonably) wanted her to work on building skills for dealing with conflict, stress, and various other social situations before giving her a perscription for hormones. Before she even saw this therapist, I begged her to do the same. Her response is to say that I am gaslighting her and that her therapist is being transphobic and not following psychiatric guidelines by making her come up with a plan for dealing with her transition before giving her pills. I get that those things sometimes happen to transgender people. I do. But that's not what happening here. Her boss tells her to be faster about getting in reports and she basically shuts down. Imagine how she will respond to criticism centered around her transitioning (because we all know something negative will happen eventually).

- I honest to goodness think that Alex' main issue is that she can't do the things necessary to maintain relationships, to communicate her feelings, and to deal with conflict/ stress. If she buys hormones in a back alley and starts transitioning without dealing with that, the moment something negative happens, she is going to go into a downward spiral. I fear that she may get so bad that she drops out of school or tries to kill herself (I saw a statistic that said that 46% of transgender people consider suicide).


I feel terrible. I feel like such a jerk. I feel like I'm one of those people on some Lifetime movie who reject a person once they come out as transgender. But I honestly don't care what gender Alex is or wants to present as. I honestly wonder if she's actually transgender. It matters because if something else is wrong, then she needs to get treatment for what's actually wrong so that she can get better - not just ignore the real problems and think that hormones will fix everything when they won't. But if she is transgender, then I want her to get her head out of her ass and realize that she needs to listen to her ->-bleeped-<-ing doctor and work on the skills she needs to be healthy in general and to survive transitioning in particular.

On top of it, I've started to think that all of her online friends and her girlfriend (who blogs and does other stuff for various social justice groups and movements) are reinforcing and pushing the idea that she is transgender no matter what because (whether they realize it or not) it's important for their ego to stand beside a transgender person (any transgender person - even if they aren't actually transgender).


Maybe I"m horrible. I don't want to be. I want to support my friend and be close to her. But I just can't shake these misgivings and I can't deal with her constantly feigning panic attacks and stuff. I don't know why it affects me so deeply, but it does. It hurts every time I see it. My best guess is that I've known so many people with mental illness (my parents and myself included) who didn't see it and didn't get the right help until it was too late. My parents lost their family and I've lost the ability to ever work or go to school again - or even to have children. Alex is smart and driven and I don't want her life to end like that. I feel so ->-bleeped-<-ing helpless watching it. I know that it's my problem and that I'm a jerk for thinking of me when I should be thinking more of her, but I honestly just don't know what to ->-bleeped-<-ing do.

Am I just being an ignorant jerk? What can I do? How can I stop hurting as I watch over my friend?



I'd appreciate any guidance anyone can give me. Thanks for reading and for letting me have someone to talk to.

[Rejennyrated]

I think its very difficult when you start trying to double guess someone else's thoughts and motivations, and frankly while I appreciate that your motives are noble, I dont think its either healthy for you or helpful to Alex. All you can really do is keep an open mind.

To answer your question people do repress things. So yes it is entirely possible to be transgender and not show any early signs. At the same time false Transgender beliefs are occasionally a secondary symptom of much more serious mental disorder, but that is for a psychiatrist to diagnose and not you or I (I'm a fourth year medical student but I'm not a shrink).

So personally at this point I'd be inclined to remain supportively neutral on this one.

When I came out I was only four years old. In those days (1960s) it was far from usual for parents to believe a child who came out with something like that but for some reason mine did... and I was allowed some considerable flexibility to express myself. Now a lot of people worried that this was a mistake... but actually I eventually fully transitioned and had gender surgery some 30 years ago and I have not looked back.

My point is back then that was as far from the standard narrative as your friend's story is now. Back in my day a child coming out as trans was CLEARLY thought to be wrong, this was too early, they couldnt possibly know, surely they cant be, they will regret, this must be parental pressure, etc etc etc All of which was completely wrong! I WAS,  I DID, I AM and I've never for a second regretted any of it!

I wonder if you may be projecting your own fear of the way that this will change your relationship with your friend? I think its unfair to call it being a jerk, because its clear you do care, and I can see that there are some worrying features in terms of apparent emotional maturity - but I don't think that necessarily means that its all wrong... I think it adds up to a need for caution rather than disbelief. Some transpeople do repress themselves deeply and that very often does lead to emotional immaturity and a deep burning anager and resentment against others which can manifest in the way you describe.

So in short while I think there is room for caution, I think ultimately that this is a long hard road, and really you can't do much more that will be constructive, beyond trying to be a friend.

I cant tell you the truth, and sadly the only person who can is Alex. Openly questioning and challenging is clearly not going to work because if it becomes a battle then she will do it just to win - and that the WORST possible reason to transition or have surgery. So neutral but supportive - denies that fuel. Its long hard road - hopefully if it is the wrong one Alex will eventually realise it.

[Ms Grace]

Hey Mizanthropist

Welcome to Susan's    Great to have you here - looking forward to seeing you around the forum.

Being confused doesn't make you a jerk. Saying to someone "I don't believe you because I haven't got all the facts to understand" probably would but you're getting the facts, expressing your confusion, wanting to know more, etc.

All I can say is that it is more common than you realise. Understanding that one may be transgender is a massive dot-to-dot puzzle, sometimes with some of the necessary dots missing for years. A lot of people would rather deny they are trans than go through the process since it isn't exactly a walk in the park.

Anyway, maybe have a read of this article - I Was Transgender And Didn't Know It: 6 Weird Realities - it rather nicely outlines the experience of realising one it trans during adulthood.

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Cheers

Grace

[Julia-Madrid]

Hi

I totally appreciate your dilemma, and Jenny's suggestion to remain approximately neutral, as well as relatively uninvolved, is probably the most appropriate advice.

Alex does sound like an extremely conflictive person, and, unless you wish to become part of her environment I really would advocate caution.  One thing is to support a lifelong friend; it's quite another to be there because someone with whom you broke off contact now needs a sounding board or whatever it it might be.

In the one-and-a-half years that I've been on this forum, I have seen a small number of people who have extremely important psychological and social issues, and have made me doubt whether they are transgender, and that they are using it as some kind of way out of whatever problems they have.   I'm not saying such people have no transgender issues, but it would need to be very carefully assessed by a therapist.

Please be cautious.  While many of us on this forum try our utmost to reach out and help, there are people who bring with them so much trouble and angst that you will find yourself physically and emotionally drained by the interaction and responsibility which they are transferring to you.  This happened to me, and I have since become much more circumspect about reaching out beyond the forum.  Those people are best served by medical professionals, honestly.

Good luck
Julia

[stephaniec]

being neutral is the best thing you can do. Really only she knows if she's transgender  at least she can figure it out.

[Swayallday]

These are mostly reflections upon myself not neccesarily answers or relatable to Alex:

What i'm missing from your entry is if you've asked Alex whether or not (s)he has had reoccuring experiences in youth? I certainly did but to me that still doesn't entaill TG.

Having a different hormonal makeup, biological anatomy and brain constitutes TG for me but that's a tad hard to check if you've grown as a male 20+years (idk, i'm no doctor)

"I wish I could do thing X that is considered female"

What does that mean? If I were to change gender, nothing in my life would change... Other then my gender. My interests are pretty sorted out. I suppose most boys aren't into the things I am though ;p.

I certainly did, completely dressing as the opposite or very androgynous upto puberty.
I never, per se, felt I was a woman though.
Very conflicting thoughts occur at puberty, perhaps try to figure out whether it is entirely about the garb or if said 'fantasy' is occuring from a female POV.

I always have had this "not quite right" feeling but with so many things that happen in life...
Yeah if that makes any sense...

If you want true honesty

i've had relationship troubles too. Not wanting to have sex with a woman and rather try on her outfit is confusing.
At this point if I met up with a psychologist and (s)he says I am merely a crossdresser due to issues that would be inherently comforting, I can shrug off wanting to wear a few pieces of apparel. So maybe that sheds some light.

but
imagine

You misallign yourself due to psychological trauma
rather then feeling as an actual female
That would make an affliction rather then a genuine experience.
And that's a sad pathology to follow and in a way feels inherently disrespectful to women and trans as a whole.(->IMO)

^I also understand she wants to go through nontheless. Accepting this POV seems much more difficult because if I even remotely had a glimpse of "feeling" female i'd go on HRT immediately and push for surgery. Much better then being dubbed "broken due to childhood".

revolving social issues:
I blame the testosterone. It's vile.

Not giving it a chance to work on personal issues, I understand your concern. She should atleast try and work on herself.

What if she does and she does realize it's actually TG and even more years pass? Personally I can't look in the mirror anymore.
I already wanted to be on blockers when I hit puberty but it doesn't surprise me she found out at later age. I did too. I still want hormones right now simply to be gynandrous again.

&No you are anything but ignorant. Caring, yes. Loving, very and honest!

Hope this helped a bit (n˘v˘•)¬

[blueconstancy]

My wife had no idea she was trans until she was 32, whereupon she transitioned fully to female in less than a year. It happens. (That was about six years ago now and she's still quite content.)

That said, Alex in particular does sound like she thrives on drama and hostility, and that's an issue distinct from being trans, whether she is or isn't - I think your instinct to be cautious of her is wise, but it's not necessary that it be rooted in suspicion about her transness. It doesn't make you a jerk OR transphobic to want to maintain a safe distance from someone who enjoys stirring up trouble. In fact, if you strip out the trans stuff you get a narrative of "my friend screams at me and accuses me of triggering her whenever I disagree with her about things, and I'm concerned that she thinks some drastic change to her life will change her basic personality in a way that resolves this inability to handle interpersonal conflict." That happens all the time with people who think they'll fix everything if they quit their job or move cross-country or whatnot, too. One thing that stands out to me is that you'd fought and not spoken in years, and now here she is with this dramatic need for support - is she also there for you? Is every conversation all her, all the time? If so, again, trans issues aren't the problem here, it's that she's demanding a one-sided friendship where you walk on eggshells.

My advice is to keep your distance while being politely supportive, and let her work this out for herself, or not. You can acknowledge her gender and tell her you're happy to support her transition, but you're a little busy to talk/hang out much, or whatever. She hasn't known about your life in years, and the reverse is true; give yourself some time to figure out how the new Alex handles things before you commit to being her unpaid therapist to whom she rants about the official therapist, etc.

[Laura_7]

First, have a *hug* for all the effort you are making...
I'd say its good you care...

but sometimes its like a mother... you can warn children off but they have to go their way themselves...
sometimes remaining a steady point where they can come to for advice is a good choice...
or even distance yourself if its too much...
as others have said watch out for yourself.. don't let you get dragged into...
remain healthy barriers...

if you watch peoples lifes some people seem to like high emotion... being involved in some kind of emotional surrounding...
question is if its good...

well its up to you what you say since you know them best...
you might tell them to distance themselves a bit from things that make them angry and too emotional, like some causes...
they might support that later...
at the moment they are like a cup already overflowing with emotion, which is not healthy.
Like giving in to screaming etc.
They could distance themselves a bit from some activities and concentrate on themselves, on their healing.

If there is some anger in them they might be drawn into such surroundings.
The solution is not to fuel it but trying to find distance and things that fulfill them and bring them joy.
That should be a focus. Imo also with their therapist. They could try some easy reversible steps and see how they make them feel: womens clothing, growing their hair out, trying some pastimes that help with a nurturing and caring side like cooking...
and then deciding on the next steps... just step by step.

Its just an attitude of moderation, not overflowing with emotions.

Some people react with relief to hormone therapy. Some others have side effects like mood swings, for example with oral/sublingual intake.
So a moderate approach here might help. And a bit of common sense, like spreading the dose throughout the day for more steady levels and not taking one or two big doses. But that should come later.

If they would take a bit more of a moderate approach, tell that their therapist and expect them to support them in return, withdraw a bit from an overly emotional scene and work a bit on all their issues, it should be much more smooth sailing.

Being in an overly emotional atmosphere is sometimes like a high. But its not good in the long run. And the underlying problems are not really touched.
It seems they are using their anger to move forward. But if they would dedicate some time on every of their issues it would be more healthy. It would not take that much effort or a perfect solution, just trying and spending some time on each of them.

But ultimately its their decision.


have a big *hug*

[Dena]

My roommate was the class bully in grade school. Flew on B47s with atomic weapons early in the cold war, Wife number one produced two children and died young. Wife 2 and 3 were marry and divorce but she always had an active sex life. About age 50 it hit her and she underwent the transition and lived with me for 30 years never regretting the decision for surgery. We try to fill the role society expects of us and some are better at suppressing our feeling that other. The bad part is the better we are at suppressing the feeling the bigger the mess we have to clean up when it comes time to face the truth.

To answer your question, you are not a jerk. You are very concerned with good reason. Your friend is still in the process of exploring her feelings and this is going to take some time. Most of the time people come out a far better person once they have cleaned up the emotional baggage. For now you are best to maintain a safe distance and let therapy work and resume your friendship if you want when the time comes. The important thing is that you not get sucked into the emotional turmoil going on with Alex unless you are strong enough to handle it. There is no shame in admitting you aren't and that you need distance at this time.

[Dee Marshall]

Everyone has given you very, very good advice but I wanted to make one more thing perfectly clear. Some of what you say about Alex could be explained by bipolar disorder, which has no connection to being trans or even claiming to be trans. It could also be caused by the  disconnect between a female (or male) brain and a male (or female) body. People, like I was, who are trans but deep in denial can be so closeted that there are NO outward signs, and they forget the inward signs almost immediately. I had fantasies of being a woman, being magically transformed into a woman, momentary glimpses of my own internal feminine thinking patterns. I literally forgot them from one moment to the next. I had difficulty establishing close connections with other people and rarely dated. Sounds a bit like Alex, no? We develop habits during that time in our lives that we have to unlearn and that takes time. Frequently we are entirely non-introspective.

None of this means that Alex is trans, only that Alex may be. Regardless, therapy is warranted because unlearning those habits (and bi-polar behavior is a habit regardless of origin) is important for Alex. But guess what, that's a task for Alex and Alex's therapist. You need to do what's healthy for you whether that's supporting Alex, cutting Alex off or something in-between. You're not a professional and have no obligation to go so far. Do not feel like a bad person.

[Erica_Y]

Thank you Mizanthropist  for making the effort and taking the time to reach out to the community as you must really care for your friend Alex.

Everybody's journey through the transgender experience is unique and there is no criteria that is hard and fast. I think the best way to support is to not judge or categorize your friends state or intentions and instead to guide them to seek help and answers through professional knowledgeable help as others have stated. It takes a trained professional to help a person work through their issues and feelings while ruling out or in other likely diagnosis. If your friend is wanting to circumvent a proper monitored process through the start of the journey than I would be very cautious about their intentions and motivations. There is only so much you can do and they have to be willing to help them selves first as well and be honest in wanting to deal with what is to come. The trans* experience can really manifest its self in anger and hostility as well especially with deep rooted unattended issues and feelings and it can become externalized in many different ways that would seem to be unrelated.

I hope you can find a path through this where you can both feel good about where Alex is headed.

[Mizanthropist]

Thanks to everyone who took the time to reply. Seriously.

I feel  A LOT better after reading these replies. I spent a lot of today just experiencing that feeling of "feeling better" before I sat down to reply. I was wrong in thinking that such "zero to transgender" scenarios are extremely (EXTREMELY) rare it seems. And I feel a lot better knowing that I was wrong.

I also posted this on a couple of other transgender forums and got similar responses and some assurances that HRT might help her to see the social issues more clearly BEFORE it turns into such a stress that she crashes without getting help. That was something I needed to know or at least hope for.


I just want her to get the help she needs - whatever help that is. I want her to open her mind to the *possibility* that some things aren't transphobic / that not everyone who isn't in 100% agreement with her on everything is out to get her (it's not true and it's not healthy to think that way). And I don't want her life to fall apart because she doesn't know how to deal with relationships, stress and conflict.

I've really (really) been trying to figure out why this has me twisted up inside and I think it's because:
1. I worry that she has a mental health issue that she isn't dealing with
2. That her ignoring this issues because she sees anything pointing to them as being "against" her will cause her to finally crash and burn.

This is what happened to me. I was very mentally ill (have 4 illnesses) and no one even tried to get me to notice and get help. In the end, my own issues got so bad that I'm permanently disabled. There's no more graduate school or work for me. I guess I just saw too much potential for Alex to fall into that and was helpless to stop it. But now I see that maybe things aren't as bad or hopeless as I was fearing that they were. She can follow the transgender path and no matter what, she'll be forced to get the help she needs. HRT can help her get to a place where she can accept that these coping skill deficits are serious and can't be ignored. She can notice and get help before she loses her life (she is a brilliant scientist).

I've known that my reactions (of feeling so worried) are because of some issue with me, but I just couldn't figure out exactly what that issue with me was. I see it now. And more importantly, I see that I was wrong and that there's a great chance that Alex is going to be ok. Even if there are a bunch of people around urging her to ignore her inability to cope, at some point, HRT might even overcome that. I can wait. It can get better. I'm not just sitting here watching her life fall apart in slow motion. And that's a relief. It really, really is. I just needed some reason to believe I was wrong and to have hope.

Thanks for giving that to me.


@Ms Grace: Thanks for the warm welcome. I did read that article and was still sitting there going, "Yeah, but this person still had symptoms when they were a kid. They didn't just wake up one day and say, "I'm transgender."" But reading around has exposed me to at least a few other people who went from "zero to transgender," so I'm relieved that it wasn't as rare or suspect as I had feared.

@Swayallday: I did ask her. There was basically nothing from her early childhood and then around puberty, she liked to cross dress / noticed how much she liked soft skin, but that was it. That's why I questioned it so much because as far as I knew, transgender people had some kind of idea that something was off from early childhood on. For Alex, there was no clue that anything was wrong until... Ontario.

And by relationship, I don't mean just romance. Alex has trouble with her family, with her supervisors, and with other "friendship"-type relationships. If it was just romance, that would support transgender heavily, but she has general issues that affect her ability to lead a successful day to day life. (She posts about some conflict with her lab supervisor that she can't handle almost every day and it is disturbing her work.) Anyways, that's where the concern is. In my mind, if her boss wanting her to put her phone number in the signature line of her emails is such a huge stressor for her - imagine when he finally figures out that she's looking more feminine everyday and says something hurtful (because he probably would). That's where the concern is - that she could really crash and burn if she isn't willing to do some preparation with her coping skills.

@blueconstancy: What can I say... those are some wise words. Alex has listened to me. I think I'm more willing to be there for her than she is to be there for me, but not by some serious amount.

@Laura_7: Yeah, I can't handle all of the out of proportions anger and have blocked a lot of her Facebook feed because it's just not good for me. But it's not like I want her 100% out of my life or anything.


@Dee Marshall: Yeah, something like bipolar was what I was worried about. What if she keeps not getting the treatment she needs for (let's say bipolar) because she is just hell bent on HRT fixing all of the problems. But I don't think this as big of a possibility now as I did when I first posted. What I've been hearing is that the HRT is going to get her to a place where she has to face these symptoms. And that's what I needed to know.