Yeson voice feminization surgery 2.0

[anjaq]

Sarah - 4 weeks is a bit early - plus you havenot used your voice for a long time, so its "rusty". Try to talk small amounts each day for a week and try how it feels like to go up or down in pitch. I had the issue in the first weeks that I was still subconsciously using the same pitch that I was used to. I still do that a lot because the feedback tells me that this is where my voice "normally" always was. What helps, is to start doing the exercises after week 8 to expand and try out the vocal range and find the new "sweet spot". What may help now already is to seriously shut down listening to your voice (make some noise in the ears, put on headphones with techno music on or whatever) and then just try and start reading something - the rainbow passage or something else and record it - or take away the noise suddenly while you are in mid sentence and then listen. I found that when the feedback is gone and I use a relaxed voice, it was definitely higher in pitch than when I normally spoke.

Another thing is - I dont know what you are comparing it with. If you compare it to your old "trained voice", there may be little or no difference in pitch and only some in the way the voice sounds. So see the pitch increase you would have to compare your relaxed voice now with the relaxed ("male") voice pre op. For me, my relaxed voice now is just a little bit higher than my pre op trained voice - but its seriously relaxed and comes readily, not after thinking about it or secretly trying with an "umm" to see if the pitch is right ...

I bet there is a way to get a laryngoscopy on NHS cost, isn't there? They can at least justify it somehow with laryngitis or something else, if they can't put in voice surgery as a reason for accounting... my post op examinations were so far all done with our health system, not sure if this will work out properly, but why not - I was there for regular checks to see if my voice training would progress well even before the VFS - in fact they had to do the esamination to prescribe me the voice therapy (also on medical healthcare)

[iKate]

Insurance here in the USA will cover mine for sure.

[Teslagirl]

I am about due for one. (Laryngoscopy.) Doesn't the NHS pay for it though?

Yes, I can go on a waiting list to see the consultant I saw before. If I pay (£250 ish) it's faster.

Don't be discouraged. People heal at different rates and age and other factors come into play. But you will get an increase. I swell less because of my diet apparently, which has probably helped me get my pitch increase faster.
Now I can't be called "sir" strictly by my voice even if I tried.

You must feel wonderful to always be correctly gendered by voice now. I was usually OK pre-op although a lot of that was due to the confidence which comes from having socially transitioned so long ago. The last time I was misgendered was when I was having a 'robust' discussion with an aggressive motorist. I must have momentarily lost control of my voice.

Anyhow I'll let you know how things go.

Sarah.

[iKate]

For example, I just had a plumber and an electrician doing some repairs here. They gendered me correctly, used my correct name despite my dead name being on the cheque I paid them with. You could tell their reaction was different to how I would be treated as a male. That alone made this surgery absolutely priceless. Next year I want to do my FFS and in 2017 my SRS. But socially I do agree with you. You have a huge head start and I've found that confidence will carry you very far even if one doesn't look 100%. My voice has given me that confidence.

And as is not the case with training, my new pitch carries across with no effort to multiple languages (as it has done for Anja) and accents. I have two languages and two accents I talk with in English, depending on who I talk to.

[Teslagirl]

Sarah - 4 weeks is a bit early - plus you havenot used your voice for a long time, so its "rusty". Try to talk small amounts each day for a week and try how it feels like to go up or down in pitch. I had the issue in the first weeks that I was still subconsciously using the same pitch that I was used to. I still do that a lot because the feedback tells me that this is where my voice "normally" always was. What helps, is to start doing the exercises after week 8 to expand and try out the vocal range and find the new "sweet spot". What may help now already is to seriously shut down listening to your voice (make some noise in the ears, put on headphones with techno music on or whatever) and then just try and start reading something - the rainbow passage or something else and record it - or take away the noise suddenly while you are in mid sentence and then listen. I found that when the feedback is gone and I use a relaxed voice, it was definitely higher in pitch than when I normally spoke.

I haven't talked much but the one thing I have noticed is that I can't go low anymore, my voice just fades out to nothing if I try. I'll give that feedback technique a try and see how I sound.

Another thing is - I dont know what you are comparing it with. If you compare it to your old "trained voice", there may be little or no difference in pitch and only some in the way the voice sounds. So see the pitch increase you would have to compare your relaxed voice now with the relaxed ("male") voice pre op. For me, my relaxed voice now is just a little bit higher than my pre op trained voice - but its seriously relaxed and comes readily, not after thinking about it or secretly trying with an "umm" to see if the pitch is right ...

I think I'm comparing it with my trained voice. I've been doing it so long, that I have no idea what my original 'untrained' voice sounded like. Even when Dr Kim asked me to speak in a relaxed voice, I couldn't do it and he said he thought it was probably lower; he estimated 180Hz, but there was no way I could relax and talk that low.

I bet there is a way to get a laryngoscopy on NHS cost, isn't there? They can at least justify it somehow with laryngitis or something else, if they can't put in voice surgery as a reason for accounting... my post op examinations were so far all done with our health system, not sure if this will work out properly, but why not - I was there for regular checks to see if my voice training would progress well even before the VFS - in fact they had to do the esamination to prescribe me the voice therapy (also on medical healthcare)

Yes, as I said to Kate, if I'm willing to wait, I could probably get referred again to the consultant I saw before.

Thanks so much as always for all your wise advice. I have no trans friends and it's easy to get into a state of mind where I only see the dark side of things. It's good to hear the opposite sometimes.

[Teslagirl]

For example, I just had a plumber and an electrician doing some repairs here. They gendered me correctly, used my correct name despite my dead name being on the cheque I paid them with. You could tell their reaction was different to how I would be treated as a male. That alone made this surgery absolutely priceless. Next year I want to do my FFS and in 2017 my SRS. But socially I do agree with you. You have a huge head start and I've found that confidence will carry you very far even if one doesn't look 100%. My voice has given me that confidence.

Getting confidence is so important, and wonderful that Dr Kim's surgery can give you that. It certainly beats taking years to develop it!

And as is not the case with training, my new pitch carries across with no effort to multiple languages (as it has done for Anja) and accents. I have two languages and two accents I talk with in English, depending on who I talk to.

Do you know who you're going to for FFS and SRS? It's taken me so long to get around to all the surgery that timescales of a year or so seem so fast, but I really think it's better to get on with it as soon as you can if you know who you are.

[iKate]

Do you know who you're going to for FFS and SRS? It's taken me so long to get around to all the surgery that timescales of a year or so seem so fast, but I really think it's better to get on with it as soon as you can if you know who you are.

I'm on the fence about it but I'm looking to do a consult with facial team. For SRS I'm not really sure. I am looking now though. Suporn, Bowers and McGinn are at the top of my list. Bowers has a 2 year waiting list (almost). That's why I said I was planning for 2017.

I have reasons for moving relatively fast. It has to do with what I plan to do after all is said and done, job wise etc and how much stealth I want.

[Dana88]

Getting confidence is so important, and wonderful that Dr Kim's surgery can give you that. It certainly beats taking years to develop it!

Do you know who you're going to for FFS and SRS? It's taken me so long to get around to all the surgery that timescales of a year or so seem so fast, but I really think it's better to get on with it as soon as you can if you know who you are.

I'm going to Facial Team in October for FFS (just slightly over two months away ), and then I'm going to Suporn for SRS in February :-).


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[anjaq]

I haven't talked much but the one thing I have noticed is that I can't go low anymore, my voice just fades out to nothing if I try. I'll give that feedback technique a try and see how I sound.

Well, this already gives you a hint that it worked - if you cannot go low anymore, it means something has changed

The feedback thing may possibly not work on you, if your original voice was already very much elevated and it was so natural for you - in that case it can be that the changes are different. But try.

I think I'm comparing it with my trained voice. I've been doing it so long, that I have no idea what my original 'untrained' voice sounded like. Even when Dr Kim asked me to speak in a relaxed voice, I couldn't do it and he said he thought it was probably lower; he estimated 180Hz, but there was no way I could relax and talk that low.

What was the result of Dr Kims analysis of your pre op trained and "untrained" voice? If your "untrained" voice was higher than 180 Hz so that Dr Kim estimated it to be lower than that , but still estimated it at 180 Hz, thats pretty crazy as it is all in the female range already! In that case you might either really get a more girly voice way above 200 Hz , but you definitely should get the benefit of the voice sounding differently.

For me it was totally different numbers, my trained voice was at about 185 Hz according to Dr Kims analysis, the best "low voice" I could do was about 135 Hz in his analysis. I personally believe that my original voice was more like maybe 110 Hz, but I could not let go , psychologically - not after almost 20 years of not using that low voice anymore. You know the problem even moreso. My relaxed trained voice that I used everyday was in the middle - about 150 Hz. So the surgery brought me to 170-190 Hz as my relaxed pitch without doing really anything. So what basically happened is that I still have the same pitch that I used sometimes pre op - not much change that is perceived by others - going from 160-180 to 170-190 on average. But the differences are - it costs me zero effort, not even subconscious effort I believe, to do that voice, the sound of the voice is more natural and not distorted by subconsciously using muscle power to raise pitch all the time, also the timbre has changed and there are no more low pitched undertones. The highs are much much easier to reach and I actually have to watch out not to "squeak" too much (going very high in pitch when I am getting excited or angry about something or when I am surprised).
So to describe the result of this surgery as simply raising the pitch of your pre op spoken voice is totally misleading in a way. Especially if you already had a good and high pitched trained voice before.

[iKate]

There is no low fade for me just a sharp cutoff, like how a high pass filter works. When I'm talking I feel like I'm talking through a cardboard tube sometimes. I don't have that deep chesty bass anymore. But I'm getting used to it.

[Dana88]

There is no low fade for me just a sharp cutoff, like how a high pass filter works. When I'm talking I feel like I'm talking through a cardboard tube sometimes. I don't have that deep chesty bass anymore. But I'm getting used to it.

For me it's a bit more of a fade. My voice gets progressively weaker and breathier sounding, like when a cis-woman's voice bottoms out, as it gets closer to to the D below a woman's middle C, which is where it bottoms out completely. It barely resonates at the D and then then I'm not capable of going any lower. I start to lose resonance at around an F below middle C. Just for comparison's sake, my voice used to bottom out at the Eb below a men's middle C, so that's a change of almost an entire octave so far.


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[iKate]

For me it's a bit more of a fade. My voice gets progressively weaker and breathier sounding, like when a cis-woman's voice bottoms out, as it gets closer to to the D below a woman's middle C, which is where it bottoms out completely. It barely resonates at the D and then then I'm not capable of going any lower. I start to lose resonance at around an F below middle C. Just for comparison's sake, my voice used to bottom out at the Eb below a men's middle C, so that's a change of almost an entire octave so far.


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I can't say mine is the same, but I'm not so sure. I should do some measurement. I'm an engineer and I'm seriously slacking, I know... On the bright side engineers also break stuff so...

[Dana88]

I can't say mine is the same, but I'm not so sure. I should do some measurement. I'm an engineer and I'm seriously slacking, I know... On the bright side engineers also break stuff so...

Haha. I'm a musician, and I sing (though not professionally, just for composer demos to give to professional singers :-P). So it's been hard to resist not testing my range till after the 8 week mark. I haven't tested the high end at all. The low end I just lightly and carefully hummed down from middle C to test it and I'm gonna leave it be now till the 8 week mark.


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[iKate]

Well it's officially 8 weeks post op. I'm going to start my exercises tonight.

[Dana88]

Well it's officially 8 weeks post op. I'm going to start my exercises tonight.

iKate and I had a wonderful lunch date in NYC today. She sounds great :-).


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[iKate]

iKate and I had a wonderful lunch date in NYC today. She sounds great :-).


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Thanks! As do you and you look gorgeous!

[misty2]

Hi Vfs thread readers,

If anyone else is going to have VFS during Sept 21 - Oct 1, and is interested in mutual support, please let me know. I am going alone. I am excited, petrified and a bit claustrophobic. Here is a link to my pre-surgery post. I am 52 years old... so older than average patient.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoOsa6dtZT4&feature=youtu.be

Kind regards, Danielle

[Lynne]

Well it's officially 8 weeks post op. I'm going to start my exercises tonight.

I just looked at the exercises at Yeson's site and almost all of them are used by singers to warm up and strengthen voice. When I have time and I'm alone I do most of these exercises and they help me to some extent even without surgery.

[iKate]

Hi Vfs thread readers,

If anyone else is going to have VFS during Sept 21 - Oct 1, and is interested in mutual support, please let me know. I am going alone. I am excited, petrified and a bit claustrophobic. Here is a link to my pre-surgery post. I am 52 years old... so older than average patient.

Hi Danielle.

There have been older patients. I believe even 65 year old Caitlyn Jenner is considering it (provided she can stay out of jail).

I went with my mom but if I had gone alone I would have been fine. But it's nice to have the support.

Seoul is a safe place. Enjoy.

[Teslagirl]

Hi Vfs thread readers,

If anyone else is going to have VFS during Sept 21 - Oct 1, and is interested in mutual support, please let me know. I am going alone. I am excited, petrified and a bit claustrophobic. Here is a link to my pre-surgery post. I am 52 years old... so older than average patient.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoOsa6dtZT4&feature=youtu.be

Kind regards, Danielle

Hello Danielle.

You've nothing to worry about! I'm older than you and I felt the same sense of trepidation, but in the end I really enjoyed the whole experience! I can guide you through everything you need to know. I was on my own as well but it was really wonderful in the end. Which country are you traveling from?

Sarah.