Yeson voice feminization surgery 2.0

[iKate]

This is interesting and strange. I would be happy if someone getting the procedure would ask Dr kim or Dr Haben about that voice break point and what determines where it sits or if it shifts.
You all have such high breaking points, I am envious! Mine was at C4 and still is at C4 and that is almost an octave lower than what you here all seem to to have!

I recorded a rainbow passage in my broken voice with laryngitis of course. It reads 145 Hz but I dont think it sounds overly male... so yeah - it sounds like my pre op trained voice which also had a more female timbre, but that is without me doing anything basically but trying to use my voice in a way that works at all....

It's the whole equalizer thing I was talking about. VFS acts as a high pass filter, so the lower male undertones are gone. This is why voice training never worked for me, but VFS was like magic.

[Dana88]

Dana - After hearing your voice, I am beginning to regret not getting the triple. I had hopes that I would be able to sing with the new voice and the triple would prevent it. While my new voice is a big improvement over the old one, I have to use the head voice and am only able to reach about C5(just checked). It is clearly not going to be much of a singing voice. I can get as low as C3 but I don't think I want to be a singer in that range. I can see from your before voice why your after voice turned out so well. You all ready had a much higher male voice than I did so it wasn't much of a move to put you into the female range. Well if I can't sing, I will just enjoy your voice.

anjaq - That was an interesting voice sample. You are correct that it genders female even at that pitch. I think some of what does it is the breathiness. It softens the voice making it sound feminine. I may need to work on that idea if I ever get my voice back.

We all heal differently and at different rates. I also think it's partially that I studied voice for many many many years, so I'm able to play with resonance and tone, and I know how to build range etc from preop.

And yes. I've said before my fundamental frequency was on the low end of the androgynous range preop, so it meant that even the 75 hz average increase would have put me well into a female speaking range. When I measured my fundamental frequency preop it was 163 hz. When Dr. Kim measured it it was 152 hz, BUT I was sick when I first arrived and my voice was sitting a little lower than normal. So I suspect the home measurement was probably a little more accurate. At this point my post-op voice seems to land within the 248-253 hz range during the day once I'm warmed up, after a day of use it still sinks down to closer to the 218-225 hz range, but I'm certainly not complaining. I just recorded this rainbow passage:

http://vocaroo.com/i/s1JrQso9U2PX

And anjaq, you are right. Even sitting down there you sound totally female.


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[anjaq]

Dana - After hearing your voice, I am beginning to regret not getting the triple.

I would not say that because as I understand the "triple" means getting additional CTA to the glottoplasty and then also a trach shave? The CTA does not really improve your singing voice. Actually Dr Kim says it's counterproductive.. Remember that CTA basically kills one of your two pitch regulating muscles, so your vocal range decreases and your pitch control is restricted! And from what I heard so far, changes in the vocal break are rather rare with both methods, it seems. Although quite a few said that the break was less pronounced after the procedures

anjaq - That was an interesting voice sample. You are correct that it genders female even at that pitch. I think some of what does it is the breathiness. It softens the voice making it sound feminine.

Well the breathiness seems to come from three things in this case - none of them really positive - the cold, the withdrawal from Clonazepam and me still not using my voice properly. Some breathiness is ok to give the voice a more feminine touch, but its easy to use too much and then its doing more damage than good. Better train to use the voice without too much breathiness and use other ways of making it sound feminine.

It's the whole equalizer thing I was talking about. VFS acts as a high pass filter, so the lower male undertones are gone.

Indeed! This is one of the really great things especially about glottoplasty - since it really alters the mass of the vocal folds, which is something CTA does not do, but maybe those laser based methods are doing?

In any case - I was able to be gendered female at 145 Hz pre OP most of the time, it was more or less my daily voice, sometimes 160 Hz - but in recordings I was sometimes not so sure and I was misgendered on the phone. I think now thats not going to happen

[Dena]

I would not say that because as I understand the "triple" means getting additional CTA to the glottoplasty and then also a trach shave? The CTA does not really improve your singing voice. Actually Dr Kim says it's counterproductive.. Remember that CTA basically kills one of your two pitch regulating muscles, so your vocal range decreases and your pitch control is restricted! And from what I heard so far, changes in the vocal break are rather rare with both methods, it seems. Although quite a few said that the break was less pronounced after the procedures

I may obscured what I meant a bit. My thought was if I don't really have the range for a good singing voice, maybe I should have settled for a bit better speaking voice by getting the triple.

[kwala]

This is interesting and strange. I would be happy if someone getting the procedure would ask Dr kim or Dr Haben about that voice break point and what determines where it sits or if it shifts.
You all have such high breaking points, I am envious! Mine was at C4 and still is at C4 and that is almost an octave lower than what you here all seem to to have!

I recorded a rainbow passage in my broken voice with laryngitis of course. It reads 145 Hz but I dont think it sounds overly male... so yeah - it sounds like my pre op trained voice which also had a more female timbre, but that is without me doing anything basically but trying to use my voice in a way that works at all....

Well, I think there are a lot of factors at play here.  For one, I am not a singer, but I have three degrees in clarinet performance and play professionally for a living so I may have a different perspective from the average girl who is just trying to find a comfortable speaking range.  Because of my training in music I'm very sensitive to pitch in a way that the average person is not.  I only sing for fun, but because of my training it's sort of impossible to not be critical of every aspect and not to push myself in terms of range. So, I very well may be pushing myself to the absolute limits of my voice in a way that the average person might not do.  I would imagine this is similar for Dana with her background.  Secondly, I'll be the first to admit that I just don't have a baritone or bass voice.  When I sang as a male at the amateur level I was always classified as a tenor. I'm getting a glottoplasty not to gain notes or a pitch level that was unattainable, but to make a certain register more attainable and more automatic.   Some might find that confusing but for me personally it makes sense.  If you've heard my voice samples here,  you know that I don't have a deep voice but at the same time, maintaining a high and feminine pitch puts a strain on my vocal cords that I want desperately to eliminate. Basically I'm hoping that my trained voice will become my default voice with no extra work on my part.  Based on the examples I've heard here, I think  that's a realistic expectation but only time will tell and I'm willing to take the plunge.

[anjaq]

I may obscured what I meant a bit. My thought was if I don't really have the range for a good singing voice, maybe I should have settled for a bit better speaking voice by getting the triple.

Ok, that makes sense. Yes - even Dr Kim can offer a slightly different surgery it seems, depending on the way you want to use the voice - singing or speaking. I think most people will prefer to have a good effortless speaking voice rather than to still struggle with that post op just to have some more singing abilities, unless they are really enthusiastic or professional singers.

Secondly, I'll be the first to admit that I just don't have a baritone or bass voice.  When I sang as a male at the amateur level I was always classified as a tenor. I'm getting a glottoplasty not to gain notes or a pitch level that was unattainable, but to make a certain register more attainable and more automatic.   Some might find that confusing but for me personally it makes sense.  If you've heard my voice samples here,  you know that I don't have a deep voice but at the same time, maintaining a high and feminine pitch puts a strain on my vocal cords that I want desperately to eliminate. Basically I'm hoping that my trained voice will become my default voice with no extra work on my part.

Well, even if you are not a baritone or bass - some others have also not been that - the description of what you want fits that or others including mine. I was able to reach very high pitches before the surgery, even though of course it was head voice then. So that was not something I expected to change. But just like you, my expectation was that I could use my elevated trained voice without much effort - basically with similar effort I could use my relaxed trained voice before surgery - and that seems to have worked out, even though I hoped I would also gain a little more pitch to end up in the upper part of my trained elevated voice. But yes - it has the potential to take off the strain that it takes to use that elevated range (in my case pre op the original voice was a bass - 110 Hz, relaxed trained was 130 Hz, elevated trained was 160-200 Hz - post op relaxed is about 170-180 Hz, slightly elevated gives me 200 Hz). But one has to unlearn some of the stuff that one learned before and that puts the strain on the voice. I struggle with that because I used those bad ways of speaking for 15 years... but if you are good with your voice, I am sure it is easy for you.

[iKate]

The only singing I've done apart from a brief stint in choir in elementary school has been in church. So my singing voice really isn't all that good.

My pitch isn't all that high from the surgery but it sounds good enough I guess. I'm just happy to not have it out me.

However I may end up taking some singing lessons because with my new voice I want to sing. I have no dysphoria about my voice now so singing is pleasurable.

[anjaq]

Yes, same with me - since I dont fear my voice every time I use it, I actually feel that I should try and sing a bit. I tried somewhat at campfires in summer, but while the voice is ok, I cannot hit the right notes, so I think I want to learn that a bit.

[Dana88]

I would imagine this is similar for Dana with her background.  Secondly, I'll be the first to admit that I just don't have a baritone or bass voice.  When I sang as a male at the amateur level I was always classified as a tenor. I'm getting a glottoplasty not to gain notes or a pitch level that was unattainable, but to make a certain register more attainable and more automatic.   Some might find that confusing but for me personally it makes sense.  If you've heard my voice samples here,  you know that I don't have a deep voice but at the same time, maintaining a high and feminine pitch puts a strain on my vocal cords that I want desperately to eliminate. Basically I'm hoping that my trained voice will become my default voice with no extra work on my part.  Based on the examples I've heard here, I think  that's a realistic expectation but only time will tell and I'm willing to take the plunge.

Ding ding ding yup :-). I think if you have singing or musical training, you're always pushing to the limits of your range. Now to be clear that doesn't mean straining to the limits of your range, but it does mean experimentation to figure out where your limits are, and figuring out the different approaches and resonances that help you attain the sound you want. Also, same, I wasn't that low to begin with and always sang tenor. So putting me in an alto range isn't a HUGE leap.


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[iKate]

Almost forgot, here is Jamie and her documentary.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcWyFWBmb1I&feature=youtu.be

[kwala]

Almost forgot, here is Jamie and her documentary.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcWyFWBmb1I&feature=youtu.be

Very informative and I love her quirky personality.  Thanks for posting.

[iKate]

Very informative and I love her quirky personality.  Thanks for posting.

I really love what she did at the end.

It's too bad she doesn't post here anymore, but I can understand wanting to just move on with your life (as I will do someday).

[anjaq]

This brings back memories - Dr Kim is cute

I believe J-Mi stopped posting because a few people were not so happy about the Yeson procedure or were scared of it not being as good as J-Mi showed it to be. Not sure. Her results are fantastic and definitely in the top 10% or so, she definitely surpassed Dr Kims estimate of a 75 Hz increase in pitch and almost doubled that!

[iKate]

She definitely worked at it. I must admit I've been slacking in the exercise department but I do what I can. However I am very pleased with my results.

Dr Kim seems rather modest and shy but he probably knows the immense difference he has made in many people's lives. I wish them every success they wish for.

[northcountrymassage]

Hi all, this is an update to my surgery that I had done July of last year.  For anyone considering the surgery look into Dr. Spiegel in Boston Mass. as he does the same procedure as is done in South Korea.  I had it done at Yeson and would have to say that I am less than thrilled with the results.  Has my voice changed?  A little but not much!  Most people who knew me before have told me that I sound the same as before the operation. :-(

[iKate]

Hi all, this is an update to my surgery that I had done July of last year.  For anyone considering the surgery look into Dr. Spiegel in Boston Mass. as he does the same procedure as is done in South Korea.  I had it done at Yeson and would have to say that I am less than thrilled with the results.  Has my voice changed?  A little but not much!  Most people who knew me before have told me that I sound the same as before the operation. :-(

Sorry to hear about the disappointment! Did you have a good trained voice before though? That seems to be the constant with girls who don't get much change.

[anjaq]

I am told the same thing, but to me the voice now feels more natural and some qualities of it have changed. Before I was pushing up the pitch, now I just can relax into it. Timbre has changed, laughs and such have changed - so I am good with it, even though admittedly I am not having those huge big changes that some have experienced, but I did not really expect that.

Careful about the whole thing regarding "There is a surgeon XY that does the same procedure as Yeson". The basic procedure is over 20 years old and was "invented" by a guy called Wendler (I believe from Germany). So its called a Wendler glottoplasty. Since then a lot of surgeons learned that method and used it. It was considered a procedure that has considerable risks of loosing the voice, of getting hoarseness and raspiness permanently, of ending up with a too high or forced sounding voice.
Only recently it seems that further development in the DETAILS of the procedure and improved skill and precision by the surgeons have made this method viable. So I would always check thoroughly what the details are and most of all what results have been created so far by that surgeon. I did not go to Korea for the surgery because I thought he is the only one doing this. I was aware of at least 3 people doing this in Germany at that time, but I decided against those becaus eI heard bad voice samples, bad reports, had a consultation with one one them who said it has only a 30% chance of improvement of the voice (30% no change, 30% getting worse). At least he was honest about not being able to give good results even though the basic method (suturing vocal folds) is the same, his precision and the details of the technique are different from Dr Kim. So I chose to spend 8000 EU instead of getting it done on NHS for free.

[Cadence Jean]

I'm also told that I sound the same as before surgery. The difference is that I don't need to strain my vocal cords in order to do it. Lol And it doesn't wear out anymore. Also, like, Anjaq's experience, my laughs and coughs, etc, are higher pitched and more natural.

Something that I found interesting that my speech therapist told me was that after a change to the larynx like that, your brain will still attempt to configure the musculature to make your voice sound more like what your brain is expecting. Maybe something like that is in play in your case? After I started holding my hyoid down against my larynx, my brain wasn't very happy with the sound of my voice for a few days. Lol I had to practice to myself to get my brain to realize that yes, that is indeed my voice and it's okay for it to sound like that. Lol

I'm sorry you haven't noticed immediate gains. I hope your higher pitched voice is still in there, just waiting to be discovered.

I have a friend who will be getting vocal surgery done with Spiegel, fairly soon, I believe. I'll have to post on her behalf when I hear her results.

[iKate]

In my case since I had zero training other than trying to get my voice up by myself, when I started to speak post op, it took a few tries because I felt my brain trying to use my pre op range and probably wondered, "wtf just happened?" and then proceeded to seek upwards to the most comfortable position. With a trained voice you're not going to have that since the voice is comfortable already.

[Perfection]

Yeah, I got horribly botched work by Spiegel for face work (I've had 2 redos since then and am still completely screwed), the last thing on earth I would ever do is let him touch my vocal chords. He has an ongoing reputation for being "too conservative" and I can say that will be the least of your problems if go with him. Sure he's doing the same surgery, but Dr. Kim does nothing but work on vocal chords all day every day. Spiegel is nothing but an ear nose and throat doctor trying to perform FFS and other surgeries. I need to get a full write up on my multiple experiences I've had with him and post it here. On another note, I didn't see ANY of the equipment in Spiegel's office that Dr. Kim had in his office. It's like taking your PC to the Apple store for repair, It doesn't make any sense at all. He doesn't even have any videos posted on his website showcasing his work.