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There are 15 million of us. We should be able to do SOMETHING.

Started by suzifrommd, August 11, 2015, 08:14:10 PM

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suzifrommd

It's very important to me that I help the Trans community in some way. I give talks when someone wants me to talk about trans people (which isn't often). I help run a support group that gets a handful of people. I was an activist when my state was passing a gender identity anti-discrimination bill.

But mostly, I help by hanging around Susan's forums answering questions and giving advice. I'm not sure it's all really necessary - there are so many wise and experienced people here that my words are a drop in the bucket. My thinking is that you never know when the right words are exactly what some suffering soul needs to hear.

Lately I'm getting worn down by the parade of transgender young people whose parents, either through ignorance or malice, won't support them in their journey. I can't fix these misguided parents. I can't climb through the Internet line, come out the other side and shake some sense into them. "Don't you see what you're DOING to your kid?" "You have a wonderful son/daughter/child and you're destroying them by refusing to acknowledge their gender." Alas the best I can do is give a few pointers and hope that a few of these parents are miraculously enlightened. I'm just one pipsqueak of a trans girl with no influence on anything.

But we are a powerful community. 700,000 in the U.S. alone, some 15 million worldwide.

What can we do as a community to stem this tide, to stop this parade of parents who are crushing their children's spirits? Most parents love their children and if they understood the results of their actions would not want to do anything that harms them. Some parents (I know a couple IRL) suffer painful remorse at the horrors they inflicted on their kids with well meaning attempts to get them to live as their gender assigned a birth. How do we educate them before its too late? How do we make sure there are fewer Leelah Alcorns and more whose identity is affirmed at home by the people they care about the most?

As usual, I'm not interested in responses about how hopeless it is. If you don't have real ideas or positive insight, your input probably isn't helpful and maybe belongs in another thread.

What can we as a 15-million-strong community do so that more parents support their children's trans identities?
Have you read my short story The Eve of Triumph?
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HoneyStrums

We need to find an idea that people other then trans people, in addition too trans people can get behind.

We need unity, If we work by ourselves, any movement, ideal, dream or hope we might present becomes a members only club. eg, if your not trans your against us. That not what we need. So less focus on banding together, AND focus on finding alies outside of the Trans cumminity, and better still the whole L.G.B.T.Q umbrella.

This is all i got, sorry

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Lady Smith

Years ago parents and teachers would try to force left handed kids into being right handed.  The word 'sinister' originally had the meaning of using the left hand instead of the right so you can see how much right handedness was enshrined as being normal by Western society.  These days nobody would tie a child's left hand behind their back to force them to write with their right hand which would tend to indicate that at some point society's consciousness made a shift towards acceptance of left handed difference.

The question is of course how to get that to happen for trans-folk.  I don't think marching about in the street waving placards achieves all that much and personally speaking for myself I wouldn't be seen dead at a Pride event.  Having just made it out alive from the rage that was released on me when I discovered I was a DES child I can honestly say that shooting known bigots from rooftops with a sniper rifle wouldn't be a good idea either.

When I was working as a social worker for the adult mental health service I did a lot of advocacy of behalf of clients with government departments.  Fairly often I would see the sneer face form on government workers features when I approached them and then I would take out my hospital board ID and say I have an appointment to meet with Mr/Ms Xxxxxx.  The sneer face would then turn to shock/surprise and they would fall all over themselves in an attempt to make amends.  Yeah, a '->-bleeped-<-' with a proper professional job who would have thought it possible.
That's how we can make change in the minds of society at large.  By being out there with jobs and roles in society just like anybody else.  I'm not saying it's easy, I had to go through an identity crisis of being afraid that no one would believe I really was a genuine healthcare professional with for real cleverness certificates from tertiary educational institutions hanging on her bedroom wall at home.  Once I got past that though I was bomb proof.
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Paige

Quote from: suzifrommd on August 11, 2015, 08:14:10 PM
What can we as a 15-million-strong community do so that more parents support their children's trans identities?

Hi Suzi,

There are plenty of people like myself that are pretty much in the closet.  My guess is many of us are mainstream in society.  We have relatives, friends and associates.  Some of these people are probably parents like you describe.  My hope is that the closeted transgender community would use gentle persuasion when they encounter people like this.  I know myself I no longer back down when confronted by those who are afraid, ignorant or hate transgender .

Perhaps a thoughtful strategy could be developed for those times we encounter anti-transgender parents?  Maybe if their peers tell them there's nothing wrong with transgender kids, maybe they are more likely to think about the issue. 

Anyway just a thought,
Paige :)
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Devlyn

You're losing a large percentage already, Suzi. 700,000 transsexuals might be right, but there are vast numbers of transgender people that aren't included in that tally. We start by fighting for ALL transgender people, not just some.

Hugs, Devlyn
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suzifrommd

Quote from: ButterflyVickster on August 11, 2015, 08:35:46 PM
We need unity

That would be a great start. Unity doesn't just happen, right? It typically takes some sort of leadership. Leadership can be charismatic (like Dr. King in the 60s, for example), where someone expresses a vision and people are inspired to sign on. Leadership can also be viral. Leelah Alcorn's suicide note or the WeJustNeedToPee campaign are examples of those.

What sort of leadership would bring our collective voices to bear on the problem of parents not realizing how denying identities is destroying their own children?

Quote from: Lady Smith on August 11, 2015, 09:35:04 PM
That's how we can make change in the minds of society at large.  By being out there with jobs and roles in society just like anybody else.

I'm concerned that wouldn't be enough. As medical technology improves our passability (which is pretty good as it is) more and more of us will have the option of fading into the woodwork. A lot of people probably live or work around passable and partially or fully stealth trans people and don't know it.

Media could help. News and fictional stories that have incidental or main characters who just happen to be transgender would send a powerful message that being trans is a perfectly ordinary. comfortable way to be.

There's a problem though. If you're putting a typical trans character in a movie, someone whose gender identity is incidental, how do you show that they're trans?

Quote from: Paige on August 11, 2015, 10:05:16 PM
Perhaps a thoughtful strategy could be developed for those times we encounter anti-transgender parents?

Something like this?: https://www.susans.org/2015/02/12/speaking-with-the-parents-of-transgender-youth/

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on August 12, 2015, 06:23:36 AM
We start by fighting for ALL transgender people, not just some.

Ouch! Well I certainly didn't mean to exclude people. If there are far more than the oft-quoted 700k figure (I think you're right about that), that should make our voice all the more powerful, no?
Have you read my short story The Eve of Triumph?
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Devlyn

Well, the crossdresser sites I visit indicate one (male) person in twenty crossdresses. I'd call that a fair estimate. That puts us at 15 million in this country alone, from the single category of MTF crossdressers. I run into too many transgender people locally for the number to be as low as 700,000 to be honest.

Hugs, Devlyn
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Tessa James

Oh Suzi you are helpful, effective and making a difference!  Your essays, short stories, posts and public advocacy are needed and touch more lives than we can know.  We are doing something together.  Every time I have done a presentation on trans 101 and diversity people literally come out and say YES! I am trans, gay, lesbian, bi or different too.  We started a gender support group here in our rural area a few years ago and people continue to join, make inquires, and reach out to others.   

With our increasing visibility and even celebrity there is going to be more young people facing unprepared parents than ever.  It is a testament to you and those gone before us that there are words, language and treatment programs that can assist us.  It felt like no help was out there when I was a kid and even in the 90's when my first transition attempt failed.

There is battle fatigue and it does get tiring to be reminded of the intolerance and hatred out there but we are making a difference and I know of no silver bullet that works faster than education to change hearts minds and policies.  We have to be visible for that and I thank you for being a stand out girl!
Open, out and evolving queer trans person forever with HRT support since March 13, 2013
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Lady Smith

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HughE

I think getting the word out about what happened with DES (and first generation progestins) would help.

Contrary to popular belief, the sex you develop as isn't determined by whether you have a Y chromosome or not, but by what hormones are present during the time your prenatal development is taking place. The medical and pharmaceutical establishment have done a great job of hiding the fact that, during the second half of the 20th century, they gave millions of pregnant women high doses of hormones which are now known to have gender bending properties, as part of treatment aimed at preventing miscarriages and premature births: DES and ethinyl estradiol, which can induce female development in a biologically male fetus, and anabolic steroids and androgenizing progestins, which can induce male development in a female fetus.

Genital development is largely complete by the end of the first trimester, whereas most of the exposure to these substances has tended to happen during the second and third trimester, when the main thing still ongoing is brain development. As a result (with DES, but I think the same applies to the others), the people exposed to these treatments have generally come out with relatively minor physical abnormalities (usually not enough to fall under the medical definition of intersex), but with brains that have undergone extensive cross-sex development. It looks like one of the ways this manifests itself later in life is through gender dysphoria. Considering how many people were exposed to these hormone treatments, the surprising thing is actually that more haven't come out as trans. Presumably there must be a lot of people who are stuck in a state of denial, or who've suicided without revealing to anyone that they were trans.

All the hormones with the most overt gender bending properties had largely been removed from use during pregnancy by about 1980, yet trans people have continued to be born in large numbers since then. I think the reason for this is that there must be hormones or other medicines still in use that can induce cross-sex brain development, without having much effect on genital development.

There's at least two subtypes of androgen receptor, one of which responds to both the main androgenic hormones (testosterone and DHT), the other of which only responds to DHT. We know from research on Rhesus monkeys, and  from a rare intersex condition called 5-alpha reductase deficiency, that the androgen receptors in the genitals are mainly DHT-only ones, whereas those responsible for brain masculinization are (testosterone+DHT) ones. What this means is that the androgen receptors in the brain respond to a wider range of androgenic hormones than those in the genitals, and just because a possibly androgenic hormone doesn't masculinize the genitals, doesn't give it the all clear as far as masculinization of the brain is concerned.

Another thing I've discovered is that, for the first 20 weeks after conception, testicular testosterone production in a male fetus is mainly driven by the action of a hormone (HCG) produced in the placenta, whereas from about 20 weeks onwards, a hormone produced in the pituitary of the fetus itself (LH) takes over. Therefore, any drug or chemical that doesn't interfere with placental HCG production but does interfere with fetal LH production, wouldn't affect genital development in male fetuses, but could could nonetheless cause a big dip in testosterone production during the second half of the pregnancy, and brain development to predominantly occur as female instead of male. In the research on Rhesus monkeys, the important period when exposure (or lack of exposure) to testosterone determined whether the monkeys ended up with male or female brains, was the second half of the pregnancy.

Also, there are drugs besides hormones that can interfere with hormone metabolism, and thus have the potential to interfere with normal sexual development in the fetus. An example is phenobarbital, a drug that's used in epilepsy treatment and has been linked to both MTF and FTM ->-bleeped-<-.
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