Bad effects of estrogen on (mostly) male brains?

[HughE]

In the past I've tried to find out if there's any evidence for cis-males being badly effected estrogen, but without any success. ... I even asked my endo if anyone had disliked how estrogen made them feel, and after thinking about it a moment he said he didn't think anyone had disliked it (and that's a lot of people). It could be everyone likes it, or that by the time he sees them all the non-trans people have been filtered out.

It goes to show that endos are just as clueless as other doctors when it comes to hormones, even though it's supposed to be their specialty! Basically, excessive estrogen is incompatible with being male, and causes all sorts of problems for people who are trying to live as male.

Here's a description of the problems men can experience as a result of high estradiol, lifted from one of the hypogonadism forums I subscribe to (some of them may be due to the fact that increasing E2 suppresses T production and raises SHBG, which can put you in a situation where both T and E2 are at below normal adult levels; obviously this situation shouldn't apply to people on trans HRT).

When E2 goes up, it "makes you feel like crap and kills
your sex life".  As E2 levels go up, SHBG (Sex Hormone Binding Globulin)
levels tend to go up, too.  SHBG attaches itself to testosterone and
basically makes the testosterone useless.  In other words, you can have
"good" levels of testosterone, but if your SHBG is too high, you still
feel like you have low testosterone.

Here is a list of some of the symptoms of high E2 (you don't have to
experience all of the symptoms to know that you have high E2):
* Depression
* Trouble reaching an orgasm
* No erections while sleeping (i.e. "night wood" or "morning wood")
* Anxiety
* Panic Attacks
* Prostate problems
* Gynecomastia
* Water Retention
* Dizziness/Vertigo
* Increased Blood Pressure
* Decreased Libido
* ED
* When penis is limp, it doesn't hang low (it seems to try to crawl back up)
* Asthma like issues (due to increased water retention around the lungs)
* Trouble sleeping at night - waking up multiple times per night
* Lack of Libido
* Crying while watching TV shows/movies
* Easier to get angry (think PMS)
* Insulin Resistance (getting tired after eating a meal - if left
untreated, it can lead to Type II Diabetes)
* Larger stomach
* Redness on the face and/or chest
* Feeling hotter than everybody else
* Thinner skin/bleeding easier

[Obfuskatie]

A low dose of E is sometimes used for treating prostate cancer to counter the effects of T. You know some of the antiandrogens that MTFs use like Flutamide and Bicalutamide? They were developed for treating prostate cancer by lowering testosterone. I have heard anecdotally that guys who take it will feel quite miserable.

Spiro and Finesteride were originally developed to treat an enlarged prostate as well.


     Hugs,
- Katie
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[clearleeraines]

Ikate said it in another post, And I agree, It totally straightened me out health wise mental, physical, emotional.
I chicken out as androg, as I am over 50 and not gay so I still want to be attractive to cis women and I am very attracted to transmen so ? sex wise a erection is not all of it and I can still manage ok so I have never been so happy. I would love fss, electro, boob & butt, But hey, I ain't cait jenner either! m just poor white trailer trash chic. LOL
Clear    

[AnonyMs]

It goes to show that endos are just as clueless as other doctors when it comes to hormones, even though it's supposed to be their specialty! Basically, excessive estrogen is incompatible with being male, and causes all sorts of problems for people who are trying to live as male.

Here's a description of the problems men can experience as a result of high estradiol, lifted from one of the hypogonadism forums I subscribe to (some of them may be due to the fact that increasing E2 suppresses T production and raises SHBG, which can put you in a situation where both T and E2 are at below normal adult levels; obviously this situation shouldn't apply to people on trans HRT).

My endo specializes in transgender medicine so he's probably never had a cis patient who's on estrogen, and the context of the conversation was about people he'd had direct experience with. I've tried and I've never been able to find a gap in his knowledge.

Sorry, I wasn't very clear when I said "In the past I've tried to find out if there's any evidence for cis-males being badly effected estrogen, but without any success". I really meant the direct mental and emotional effects, not physical or getting upset because of the physical effects. I don't think there's any cis-men who'll be happy about growing breasts, but I find testosterone makes me crazy, and its not because of any physical effects. I know the common knowledge as to the effect of hormones, its all over internet, but that's not the same as research. I'm a big believer in research.

[HughE]

Sorry, I wasn't very clear when I said "In the past I've tried to find out if there's any evidence for cis-males being badly effected estrogen, but without any success". I really meant the direct mental and emotional effects, not physical or getting upset because of the physical effects. I don't think there's any cis-men who'll be happy about growing breasts, but I find testosterone makes me crazy, and its not because of any physical effects. I know the common knowledge as to the effect of hormones, its all over internet, but that's not the same as research. I'm a big believer in research.

I don't think there is any research into how it makes men feel, but the impression I've gained from reading what men on TRT say (TRT can very easily result in massive overproduction of E2 if it's not done properly), is that high E2 makes them feel awful. I don't know whether that's just through antagonizing the effects of T, or whether it has some directly adverse effects on their brain as well.

My own experience is that if my T drops much below 600 ng/dl I start to feel physically quite unwell, however I feel much better psychologically if I add in some female hormones (estriol and progesterone) to the mix. I'm using estriol rather than estradiol since it doesn't cause as much physical feminization, and I was hoping it'd be less directly antagonistic to the testosterone in my system. I'm in a somewhat unusual situation though, in that I'm fairly sure that part of my prenatal brain development occurred as female and part as male, so some parts of my brain need male hormones and some female hormones.

[carissajaye]

Don't mean to necropost, but I'd rather recycle old posts that had good discussion than impose to make a new one

So I'm still pretty new to Susans and haven't posted much (I search alot) but having restarted HRT 1.5 weeks ago, I kind of wanted to chime in with my dosages and feelings so far.

Firstly my Dr. is a GP who specializes in transgender, and I'm so fortunate to have her, and so close to home. After hearing my story, she enthusiastically asked me what I want to do. I told her go on E and anti-T. She then asked me "how much?" I'm like, errrr.... uh..... aren't you supposed to decide that? She understands my questions, and has a disposition that she knows trans folks so well she isn't afraid to actually have the patient take some lead.

She offered more E than I thought was "normal", I'm like WHAAA?   The physical effects were immediate as my system was already primed.

But despite what I've read so far on this site, I'm still waiting for emotional effects. Multiple people have discussed the effects of a cis-male's brain on female doses of E, and I"m still waiting for the effects. I reckon 1.5 weeks is too early but I was thinking, what if my brain doesn't respond? Does that mean I'm not trans? Or will all brains respond somewhat; more than others?

I'm of the feelings of other girls here that I am counting on a lower libido, more feelings and empathy, and actually the capability to cry. (this was all evident last time I was on HRT but it took a month). Am I worrying about nothing (as I usually do)? Honestly I'm also counting on HRT to help with my self-Transphobia, and actually feel validated of my high GD. Like actually feel naturally ok with it to bloom into a woman both inside and out instead of self-loathing for a day that I experience almost every week.


I apologize, I deleted my dosages.

[Deborah]

You need to delete that dosage information.  It's against the rules to post it here. 

However, what your doctor suggested was what my doctor started me on.

The enotional effects people have seem to vary greatly.  Im not sure why that is.

The effect in me was to remove the dysphoria and depression.  It made me feel whole but did not make me cry more.


Sapere Aude

[RobynD]

Here's my experience when testosterone is replaced with estrogen.

Like others mentioned, you can expect the male-type libido to disappear.  The sensation of being "horny" sometimes / all the time, and wanting to do something about it, goes away for a lot of people.

You can also expect to lose a lot of confidence and assertiveness.  Most of the dare-devil, thrill-seekers in the world are men.  I feel testosterone gives you a feeling of invincibility, even if it's subtle.  You notice it when it's gone.   It's hard not to confuse that feeling with the similar loss of male privilege though, in my mind.

You become filled with a lot more empathy and emotion, rather than logic.  You can't keep emotion at a distance anymore, so you will cry if you want to or not.  You might see more value in others opinions, but also their criticisms.  You're more emotionally vulnerable to suggestions.

This is an interesting part of it for me. Estrogen has definitely made me more emotional, more apt to cry of course generally happier with no GD, but i'm not sure it has taken much of my assertiveness away or risk taking. I'm an xtreme sports person to some degree and at my age it is getting increasingly dangerous. I have not stopped though and really don't intend to. Maybe i am less assertive and i just don't see it. On the other hand i am also more easy-going and things bother me for a lot less time, in the past i would dwell on this negative or that. Not anymore.

Of course all of this applies to me, and i have been gender dysphoric my entire life. The last year has been a real eye-opener for me.

[KayXo]

So she offered as much as *mg of Estriadiol and *mg of Spiro to start

You can't state dosages on this forum.

Am I worrying about nothing (as I usually do)? Honestly I'm also counting on HRT to help with my self-Transphobia, and actually feel validated of my high GD. Like actually feel naturally ok with it to bloom into a woman both inside and out instead of self-loathing for a day that I experience almost every week.

You are worrying too much but don't count on HRT to cure your self-transphobia. That can take time to get over and may never totally be gone, depending on the person. HRT is not a miracle drug but it can do pretty neat things to the body and the mind too that might surprise you long-term. Be patient, relax and take it a day at a time.

[Rachel]

I was an emotional person pre-hrt. At about 6 weeks I became much more emotional. Thursday night I and 7 or so people cried at group when we heard bad news about another group member.

Transphobia will go away when you learn to love yourself and make trans friends.

[Dena]

I have always been firmly in control of my emotions, something I learned at a very early age but the biggest difference for me (post surgically because of no blockers) was the lack of transgender feelings. It's something you don't notice at first but one day you realize that it's going and has been gone for a long time.

[melissa_h]

Eliminating sour feelings from dysphoria has been the main benefit to me so far, clearer head, sense of purpose, better emotional connectivity .... but not to the point of weeping more or anything.   

Keep in mind ... that's a still huge change for a lot of folks.