new to the site, looking for advice,support,help, information.. everything!!!!

[Tuyrar]

 Hey all!
I recently found this site, my name is Sarah, and my husband just recently fully opened up about his gender confusion. I have tons of questions and I am trying to find out everything I can about it all. Please forgive me if I say the wrong thing, I am really just starting to learn about all of this and I don't want to offend anyone but I am still learning.

We have been married for just over 6 years and my SO has told me that he has alot of confusion about his gender, at first he told me that he felt like a woman and he himself had alot of questions. so we decided between us that he would take some time to "get to the bottom of his feelings" as he put it, and so, far the past month he has been dressing up, choosen a new femme name etc etc.. you probaly all know the rest better than me!

Anyway, it seems he is more confused than ever, some times he tells me "it's just an act, like role playing", and at other points, more notably during this past week, while he has been "male" he will make comments like "I am just a little girl", or " I am a good looking girl" etc. Some days he tells me he is gender fluid, genderqueer or on others he is a guy who has girl clothes. I am finding it all so confusing. Most women's partners seem to "come out" when they know "what" they are, but all this going back and forwards is really draining for me. I am trying to be supportive, and I took him shopping etc but I have a ton of questions, doubts and fears myself.

what advice, if any, can anyone offer me, I have lots more questions that i will no doubt be asking here, as you all seem to know much more than me, but right now the most draining thing is this ping-pong emotional rollercoaster that we seem to be on.

Just realised this is a totaly rambling post but hopefully it makes at least some sense to someone!! xx

[LizK]

Hi Tuyar

Have a hug for a start and Welcome to Susan's

I am never sure wether I am allowed to post replies in this forum or not, but I can hear you hurting in this post and could not just ignore it. Sounds to me like you partner could do with some professional counselling to help him sort out what and where he fits in the spectrum. I personally had plenty of confusion about what and who I was. Experimenting helped me understand a bit more but it really wasn't until I got some therapy that I began to get my head around it.

It is very tough on you especially since your partner is unsure of exactly how they feel. Do you know if he wants to make any physical changes? There are so many facets to this that it can be tough just trying to work out where to start. Feel free to send me a private e-mail if you find that easier to ask your questions. I am no expert on anything other than my own journey but I can certainly share with you what I do know.

I hope you are able to resolve your issues my wife and I have made a commitment to each other to stay despite that I am transitioning. But for that to work means the communication lines have to be open and working well.

Good Luck

Sarah T

[Laura_7]

Hello and welcome 

First, know you are not the only one. It can be confusing sometimes.
Its a transgender spectrum, going from i.e. androgynous to full transition...

a good gender therapist might help.
Some might accept your insurance and communicate online:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,162888.msg1400316.html#msg1400316
and you might ask for counseling, at plannedparenthood or a lgbt center...

You might try to reassure your partner, and stay calm and talk about it.
Often transgender people are sensitive and unconsiously read the expectations of others.
So what they think they get from you is what they might try to fulfill.
If you could try to remain calm it might help.

The links there might help:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,196614.msg1750127.html#msg1750127

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,194986.msg1737439.html#msg1737439

For your partner its not necessary to feel like a woman all of the time.
Its possible thats what makes them puzzled.

They could ask themselves:
-would they be more happy with a bit more female body ?

-how would they like to be perceived ?

With the help of a good gender therapist and some time things should get clearer.


many *hugs*

[JoanneB]

While any trans person will say their life is a hard one, I have long maintained that life as the SO of a trans person just has to be even more difficult. I've spent a lifetime barely coming to grips with being trans. An SO has mere minutes in comparison. If I cannot nail down my gender issues to myself I certainly cannot explain or detail them to anyone else. Plus exactly what and the intensity of what I feel changes. Sometimes quite dramatically thanks triggers I sometimes don't know exist or also change.

So please don't feel bad about feeling confused or overwhelmed. You can't help but to be confused and especially overwhelmed. You just learned that life as you imagined it likely is never going to be. And.... your SO just may may not be part of it.

The one thing that has kept my wife and I together through this is the often times difficult open and honest discussions. A skill I had to had to instantly apply and  master after years of living with my wife, a self described to open and brutally honest person for her own good sometimes.

What often dooms many relationships is a euphoria that comes on from telling an SO your deepest, darkest secret and seeing her still standing there 10 seconds later, the Earth not opening to swallow me up, No bright flash as a bolt of lightning from the heavens instantly fries me to oblivion.  Hey! I survived! Now full speed ahead.  Meanwhile the SO is in a state of shock still and perhaps still for days or weeks later even more so all all sorts of changes start raining down her.

Any relationship is a partnership. The needs and wants of one, balanced against those of the other. If things are skewed too far off to one side or another there is no hope of regaining balance. If one side senses that happening something needs to be said. If the relationship is important to the other, some accord will be reached and the balance slowly regained

[Tuyrar]

Thank you all so much for taking so much  time to reply to me so kindly and thoughtfully. I talked with hm about going to a "specialist", but he says he is too embarrassed to talk to anyone. So for jut now there doesn't seem to be anything else but his own experiences to go on.

I have all the usual fears.... Like the feelings if loss and grief and fear.. I know they will pass and fade and change with me as it is a process.

But what is making me feel really insecure right now is that I feel as if a rug has been pulled from under my feet and I am standing on quicksand. I fear his indecisiveness will lead us down a path of many years of questioning, of unknown, of him lying to himself and me and I don't know if I can handle all that. It may seem strange to say it, but I feel that we could have a stronger foundation, and we would have a better chance of "surviving" if he "came out" as Trans, or gender queer or anything... even an alien!! Haha But all this back and forward and back again makes it impossible for us to have any sort of foundation in our marriage. And now, in hindsight (which is a wonderful thing!), I can see that he has always had this internal debate with himself and the two extremes of his thought, it is probably the reason why we have already suffered so many years already of indecisiveness; he wanted to marry me, but at the same time didn't, why sometimes he wants kids and at other times he doesn't.. and the list can go on..

When he talks about how he is feeling it seems to me that he is very scared about what his decision will have on his life, and this is holding him back from being able to "get to the bottom of it". He talks to me about other trans women who live a "normal" life and he tells me that that is his dream... but he tells me it will "never happen", mainly his fears seem to be based on "social norms" and what society expects. 

But I am sacred he will "settle" or worse.. lie to me... about his true feelings and then 10.. 20.. or 30 years down the line we will be right back to where we are today, and I don't think it is a good way to move forward.  I understand that he is scared, and I agree with Laura_7 that he is defiantly trying to gleam my reactions and base his decisions on my expectations, this is why when talking with him I try to be as calm and neutral as I can be, as I don't want my feelings to be the reasons why he makes decisions. But the funny reverse flip side of it all means that I am now the person who feels that they can't talk openly about how I am feeling and what my fears/dreams are because I think that he will base his decisions on my emotions, (like most people on the spectrum he suffers from depression and has been suicidal, so this only makes me even more careful about what and how I say things).. I read somewhere that once a husband come out of the closet and wife goes into one.. I think that could be used to describe me right now!! Haha !!  I feel exactly like what JoanneB described, that my SO can talk "freely" and explore "freely" and I have a ton of questions and fears and dreams and that I am scared to talk to him about for fear of upsetting him, or hurting him, which is the last thing that I want. For example the other day he ad that he likes to use female pronouns even when "not in charchter" and yet at other points he acts like nothing is "changing", this is making me so confused and I just want to someone to tell me "what does it all mean!?!?!?!?!". Thats why I am so thankful for this forum and for just anyone willing to listen to me rant on!!!

I read somewhere that for people who "settle" or "deny" their gender that their struggle ultimate becomes harder and their desires stronger?

Sarah T: So far he has said he doesn't want any "big" changes, but his reasons are that the surgeries/treatments scare him... it is rue that he has never been a good patient!! But he is talking about getting more subtle body changes, for example hair removal. Are these just normal "first steps" that he doesn't even know he is taking?

Untill my SO is ready to go see a "specialist" do you any of you know of any kind of resources that we could work through so that we can try and get a clearer picture... ?? do they even exsist?


Sarah xx

[Dena]

Welcome to Susan's Place. Therapy with a Gender therapist is going to be needed to get to the bottom of this but there is something you can do this week end. Youtube has a series called "the transition channel" that will help you SO explore those feelings. It also wouldn't hurt you to watch it together as you will learn more about what your SO is going through. This is the same material I explored in group therapy 35 years ago and it's just as important as it was then. Working though the confusion and exploring these feelings is a long slow process but unless these feeling are treated, they only get worst. I am happy to see you helping our SO work through these problems as it is very hard and lonely to face these problems by your self. I suspect your relationship will change but many couples remain together through this. Ask any more question you have on this thread and all of us will be notified of you post. We will drop by and see if we can answer your questions.

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[cheryl reeves]

It takes a strong woman to stand by her transgendered spouse. I came out 16yrs ago too my wife and she decided our marriage is worth saving, I too don't want any surgery, I'm fem looking enough to not have to deal with any of that. Your hubby sounds a lot like I did and still do,bouncing all over the place, my wife has helped me stay grounded, she told me I can wear panties full time which helps a little, I wear nities time to time, and I dress occasionally. One thing I stress is communication for that's very important, do not be afraid too tell him how you feel,for keeping your feelings hidden just trades one set of problems for another, when I came out my wife burned down the closet so neither of us could go in there, we communicate even if my feelings get hurt or her feelings get hurt, we work through it together. This is why in Dec we will be celebrating 27yrs together.

[Laura_7]

Here is a brochure that might be shown, by a reputable source...
stating being trans has biological connections...
so its nobodys fault... not an upbringing or whatever...
http://www.gires.org.uk/assets/DOH-Assets/pdf/doh-transgender-experiences.pdf

[Tuyrar]

Thanks you guys for the great resources. I have been reading through most of them and they are really good, especialy those youtube videos, I think that the questios that were asked there are really well thought out and helpful. I have yet another question, If you don't mind helping me out or pointing me in the right direction. I have been reading about gender fluid/non binary/gender queer (at this point they seem to be more or less the same thing? or am I wrong, if so please let me know!!!), and I have been over to the non-binary part of these forums. A lot of the people who share their experiences of being non binary talk about their eventual transition. So my question is " Is being gender fluid/non binary/gender queer just a stepping stone to going 'full time' before transitioning, or do people swap between genders?" I know that, for example, that the majority of crossdressers don't go on to transition, is this also true of the non-binary community?" again, sorry for my total lack of ignorance, and probably bad use of the terminology, but it seems lots of trans resources are for mtf or ftm and my SO seems to be identifying more as non-binary right now, I can't seem to find as much information about this? 

Sarah xx

[Dena]

Thanks you guys for the great resources. I have been reading through most of them and they are really good, especialy those youtube videos, I think that the questios that were asked there are really well thought out and helpful. I have yet another question, If you don't mind helping me out or pointing me in the right direction. I have been reading about gender fluid/non binary/gender queer (at this point they seem to be more or less the same thing? or am I wrong, if so please let me know!!!), and I have been over to the non-binary part of these forums. A lot of the people who share their experiences of being non binary talk about their eventual transition. So my question is " Is being gender fluid/non binary/gender queer just a stepping stone to going 'full time' before transitioning, or do people swap between genders?" I know that, for example, that the majority of crossdressers don't go on to transition, is this also true of the non-binary community?" again, sorry for my total lack of ignorance, and probably bad use of the terminology, but it seems lots of trans resources are for mtf or ftm and my SO seems to be identifying more as non-binary right now, I can't seem to find as much information about this? 

Sarah xx

The non binary is a bit new to me as well but while fluid and queer are about the same spot in the spectrum, they are a good deal different. Gender queer tends to like mixing it up,  part male, part female part genderless all at the same time. Gender fluid is male and female but one day a person may feel male and another day female.

Both of these locations are static in feeling but some times a person will feel more the opposite gender than the birth gender and will desire changing gender but remaining non binary.

Cross dressers are also in the non binary area but they are very close to the CIS end of the scale and have no desire to alter their birth gender.

As I said I am still new to this so  if I made a mistake feel free to correct me

[Tuyrar]

Thanks Dena!! I think what we are going through then is more of gender fluidness (is this even a word?!?!?!? soooo many terms and words.... I feel like I am back at school.. Hahah!!).. It's good to know what and to look for for advice, otherwise I find it all just becomes too confusing!

*heads back to the information search* 

xx

[Deborah]

Gender fluid is pretty confusing to me but something comes to mind.  I think a person might be TS but still gender fluid at the same time.  This might be especially true for someone dealing with being TS for decades since they were a child.  Whatever gender they are internally, they socialized as the other gender.  While it might all be largely an act I'll bet most get pretty good at the act just out of self preservation and the desire to fit in and not be rejected by parents, family, and society.  While the risk of total rejection is growing smaller, that's a pretty recent phenomenon.

Eventually, many people out of desperation finally give up the act and try to move forward.  But decades of acting and socialization are still there, ingrained in that person's being.  It's kind of like a movie I saw once about a child raised in the woods by wolves.  Even after being rescued and going to live as a human it took a long time before the wolf part faded away..

Just one more thought.  I want to explain what I meant by desperation.  Keeping up the act year after interminable year gets to a point that you feel like you really don't want to live any longer.  Everyone sees the happy face but inside you feel like you are in a sealed coffin, without light and suffocating from lack of air.  In me at least it led to a lot of stress, constant short tempered anger, too much drinking, and a loss of hope.    Imagining going on like that forever and ever without respite was my desperation.

Anyway, I hope that didn't wander too far off topic but I do tend to get wordy sometimes.  LOL.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LizK]

Deborah that was nicely put and I can relate to exactly what you are saying

[Tuyrar]

Thanks for your great and honest reply Deborah, I guess it is hard (at least for me) to undersand the difference between a trans person who is sufferng from social anxiety.. and  a gender fluid person.. someone who is happy going back and forward beween genders.

I guess a good question would be "if the person could live as both genders, without suffering any social anxiety, would they? or would they choose just one gender?"

it seems some gender fluid people also see  themselves as androgynous, is this also a common feeling with trans people who feel they identify with a specific gender?

Again, sorry if I'm not using the right terminology, I'm still learning!!

[Dena]

One gender fluid person posted that he/she could be shopping for a dress one moment then want a pair of hiking boots the next. I used to wonder why people had such a hard time understanding transsexualism but here I am having the same problem with gender fluid. As mentioned before, a gender fluid person might feel more comfortable as the opposite gender and would consider surgery. I transitioned from male to female but if I where gender fluid, I might still be comfortable in male dress. The truth be told, often my dress is pretty much on the line. A sweat shirt with blue jeans and tennis shoes could be found on a man or a woman but I can wear it because I am now comfortable with my body and my life.

[JoanneB]

I wouldn't call myself Gender Fluid. Pragmatic is what comes to my mind. In a perfect world I would now instantly jump at the chance to go full-time. But between my wife, our shared dreams, financial obligations and my obligation to "The Us" I cannot take that risk at this point in time. However, those things do not stop me from doing what I can to keep the female aspect of myself alive and healthy vs locked away in the deepest darkest dudgeon I can make. And then, there are those special days when I can be out in the real world as the real, genuine me.

Up until six years ago transitioning was the absolute last thing on my mind. Been there, tried it twice. Six years ago when I started this journey, much the same at first, then came maybe some middle ground, maybe chuck it all, maybe go all the way. And then there were the darker times with maybe Plan S 

Mass confusion and mood changes comes with the territory, especially early on. This is where a TG support group or a for real gender therapist is great. BTW, there is nothing to stop you from going without your SO if need be. You are along for the ride and need support too.

[Marienz]

Thank you all so much for taking so much  time to reply to me so kindly and thoughtfully. I talked with hm about going to a "specialist", but he says he is too embarrassed to talk to anyone. So for jut now there doesn't seem to be anything else but his own experiences to go on.

I have all the usual fears.... Like the feelings if loss and grief and fear.. I know they will pass and fade and change with me as it is a process.

But what is making me feel really insecure right now is that I feel as if a rug has been pulled from under my feet and I am standing on quicksand. I fear his indecisiveness will lead us down a path of many years of questioning, of unknown, of him lying to himself and me and I don't know if I can handle all that. It may seem strange to say it, but I feel that we could have a stronger foundation, and we would have a better chance of "surviving" if he "came out" as Trans, or gender queer or anything... even an alien!! Haha But all this back and forward and back again makes it impossible for us to have any sort of foundation in our marriage. And now, in hindsight (which is a wonderful thing!), I can see that he has always had this internal debate with himself and the two extremes of his thought, it is probably the reason why we have already suffered so many years already of indecisiveness; he wanted to marry me, but at the same time didn't, why sometimes he wants kids and at other times he doesn't.. and the list can go on..

When he talks about how he is feeling it seems to me that he is very scared about what his decision will have on his life, and this is holding him back from being able to "get to the bottom of it". He talks to me about other trans women who live a "normal" life and he tells me that that is his dream... but he tells me it will "never happen", mainly his fears seem to be based on "social norms" and what society expects. 

But I am sacred he will "settle" or worse.. lie to me... about his true feelings and then 10.. 20.. or 30 years down the line we will be right back to where we are today, and I don't think it is a good way to move forward.  I understand that he is scared, and I agree with Laura_7 that he is defiantly trying to gleam my reactions and base his decisions on my expectations, this is why when talking with him I try to be as calm and neutral as I can be, as I don't want my feelings to be the reasons why he makes decisions. But the funny reverse flip side of it all means that I am now the person who feels that they can't talk openly about how I am feeling and what my fears/dreams are because I think that he will base his decisions on my emotions, (like most people on the spectrum he suffers from depression and has been suicidal, so this only makes me even more careful about what and how I say things).. I read somewhere that once a husband come out of the closet and wife goes into one.. I think that could be used to describe me right now!! Haha !!  I feel exactly like what JoanneB described, that my SO can talk "freely" and explore "freely" and I have a ton of questions and fears and dreams and that I am scared to talk to him about for fear of upsetting him, or hurting him, which is the last thing that I want. For example the other day he ad that he likes to use female pronouns even when "not in charchter" and yet at other points he acts like nothing is "changing", this is making me so confused and I just want to someone to tell me "what does it all mean!?!?!?!?!". Thats why I am so thankful for this forum and for just anyone willing to listen to me rant on!!!

I read somewhere that for people who "settle" or "deny" their gender that their struggle ultimate becomes harder and their desires stronger?

Sarah T: So far he has said he doesn't want any "big" changes, but his reasons are that the surgeries/treatments scare him... it is rue that he has never been a good patient!! But he is talking about getting more subtle body changes, for example hair removal. Are these just normal "first steps" that he doesn't even know he is taking?

Untill my SO is ready to go see a "specialist" do you any of you know of any kind of resources that we could work through so that we can try and get a clearer picture... ?? do they even exsist?


Sarah xx

My gosh I can 100% relate to your post
X


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Significant other
Heterosexual woman

[Jayne01]

Thank you all so much for taking so much  time to reply to me so kindly and thoughtfully. I talked with hm about going to a "specialist", but he says he is too embarrassed to talk to anyone. So for jut now there doesn't seem to be anything else but his own experiences to go on.

I have all the usual fears.... Like the feelings if loss and grief and fear.. I know they will pass and fade and change with me as it is a process.

But what is making me feel really insecure right now is that I feel as if a rug has been pulled from under my feet and I am standing on quicksand. I fear his indecisiveness will lead us down a path of many years of questioning, of unknown, of him lying to himself and me and I don't know if I can handle all that. It may seem strange to say it, but I feel that we could have a stronger foundation, and we would have a better chance of "surviving" if he "came out" as Trans, or gender queer or anything... even an alien!! Haha But all this back and forward and back again makes it impossible for us to have any sort of foundation in our marriage. And now, in hindsight (which is a wonderful thing!), I can see that he has always had this internal debate with himself and the two extremes of his thought, it is probably the reason why we have already suffered so many years already of indecisiveness; he wanted to marry me, but at the same time didn't, why sometimes he wants kids and at other times he doesn't.. and the list can go on..

When he talks about how he is feeling it seems to me that he is very scared about what his decision will have on his life, and this is holding him back from being able to "get to the bottom of it". He talks to me about other trans women who live a "normal" life and he tells me that that is his dream... but he tells me it will "never happen", mainly his fears seem to be based on "social norms" and what society expects. 

But I am sacred he will "settle" or worse.. lie to me... about his true feelings and then 10.. 20.. or 30 years down the line we will be right back to where we are today, and I don't think it is a good way to move forward.  I understand that he is scared, and I agree with Laura_7 that he is defiantly trying to gleam my reactions and base his decisions on my expectations, this is why when talking with him I try to be as calm and neutral as I can be, as I don't want my feelings to be the reasons why he makes decisions. But the funny reverse flip side of it all means that I am now the person who feels that they can't talk openly about how I am feeling and what my fears/dreams are because I think that he will base his decisions on my emotions, (like most people on the spectrum he suffers from depression and has been suicidal, so this only makes me even more careful about what and how I say things).. I read somewhere that once a husband come out of the closet and wife goes into one.. I think that could be used to describe me right now!! Haha !!  I feel exactly like what JoanneB described, that my SO can talk "freely" and explore "freely" and I have a ton of questions and fears and dreams and that I am scared to talk to him about for fear of upsetting him, or hurting him, which is the last thing that I want. For example the other day he ad that he likes to use female pronouns even when "not in charchter" and yet at other points he acts like nothing is "changing", this is making me so confused and I just want to someone to tell me "what does it all mean!?!?!?!?!". Thats why I am so thankful for this forum and for just anyone willing to listen to me rant on!!!

I read somewhere that for people who "settle" or "deny" their gender that their struggle ultimate becomes harder and their desires stronger?

Sarah T: So far he has said he doesn't want any "big" changes, but his reasons are that the surgeries/treatments scare him... it is rue that he has never been a good patient!! But he is talking about getting more subtle body changes, for example hair removal. Are these just normal "first steps" that he doesn't even know he is taking?

Untill my SO is ready to go see a "specialist" do you any of you know of any kind of resources that we could work through so that we can try and get a clearer picture... ?? do they even exsist?


Sarah xx

Hello Sarah,

I just stumbled on this post. I'm currently at work and don't have time right now to read through the whole thread (I'll read it when I get home). However, I did read what I you said above and I did a double take because I thought you were my wife writing about me.

I just want to thank you for opening my eyes to what I am doing to my wife. I am also having a lot of indecisiveness. I too am very afraid of transitioning. Is it the right thing to do? How will it affect my life, our marriage, etc, etc. I am trying to keep my wife's feelings in mind by not "rushing" into anything, but in doing so, I have unknowingly made my wife feel exactly as you have described. She even used the same words of feeling like a rug was pulled from under her.

I know I'm late joining this thread, but soon I will read through it all after work. Thank you again for alerting me to the SO's point of view.

Jayne

[Jayne01]

Hi Sarah,

I just finished work and read through this thread. I'm not sure if you are still monitoring as it is several weeks old now.

How are things going? Is your SO seeing a therapist. A therapist is helping me greatly and there is no need for embarrassment. A gender therapist does this for a living and they know how and what questions to ask without making you feel uncomfortable. Anyway, I won't say anymore as I'm not sure if this thread is still active.

Wishing you all the best to you and your SO.

Jayne

[LizK]

Hi Sarah,

I just finished work and read through this thread. I'm not sure if you are still monitoring as it is several weeks old now.

How are things going? Is your SO seeing a therapist. A therapist is helping me greatly and there is no need for embarrassment. A gender therapist does this for a living and they know how and what questions to ask without making you feel uncomfortable. Anyway, I won't say anymore as I'm not sure if this thread is still active.

Wishing you all the best to you and your SO.

Jayne

You make a great point about therapy, My Therapist's office is 100% the safest place I know for me and the more time I spend with her the more comfortable I get, the more relaxed I become, I can completely let my guard down which is something I do extremely rarely...being able to be yourself is such a good thing for your psyche!