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Caitlyn Jenner Says Looking Like A Man In A Dress Makes People Uncomfortable

Started by Deborah, December 11, 2015, 10:32:35 PM

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Deborah

Caitlyn Jenner Says Looking Like A Man In A Dress Makes People Uncomfortable

http://www.inquisitr.com/2627089/caitlyn-jenner-says-looking-like-a-man-in-a-dress-makes-people-uncomfortable/#utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+google%2FyDYq+%28The+Inquisitr+-+News%29

Inquisitr/By Niki Cruz     12/11/2015

Reading the article I come away with the impression that she has no idea at all what this is like for the majority of us.  She's worried about looking good for the paparazzi while many others are worried about being killed.


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Love is not obedience, conformity, or submission. It is a counterfeit love that is contingent upon authority, punishment, or reward. True love is respect and admiration, compassion and kindness, freely given by a healthy, unafraid human being....  - Dan Barker

U.S. Army Retired
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audreelyn

We should invite Caitlyn to this forum and have a real discussion with her.

I mean really bring the real issues out there. That's what she needs to be putting on her show. Helping the T community rather than her own image.

Doubt she would even reply. Maybe we ought to give it a shot though... anyone know how to go about that respectfully??

Audree
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Dee Marshall

April 22, 2015, the day of my first face to face pass in gender neutral clothes and no makeup. It may be months to the next one, but I'm good with that!

Being transgender is just a phase. It hardly ever starts before conception and always ends promptly at death.

They say the light at the end of the tunnel is an oncoming train. I say, climb aboard!
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Cindy

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Deborah

Well if she is I apologize if I was offensive but I just can't relate at all to the comments in that article.


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Love is not obedience, conformity, or submission. It is a counterfeit love that is contingent upon authority, punishment, or reward. True love is respect and admiration, compassion and kindness, freely given by a healthy, unafraid human being....  - Dan Barker

U.S. Army Retired
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suzifrommd

I think the vitriol is misplaced. My reading of Jenner's interview is that this is her experience. She has observed that people feel uncomfortable when around non-passing trans women and it's important to her that people don't see her that way.

She is entitled to that opinion and that viewpoint.

The fact that she does and that she expresses it doesn't make her transphobic. She has just as much a right to speak her mind as any of us.

Yes, I criticized the decision of the U.N. to choose her as a spokesperson, but when she's talking to the media, she has a perfect right to present her point of view. It don't agree with everything she (or anyone else) says, but it's a valid point of view and I'm happy to listen to it.
Have you read my short story The Eve of Triumph?
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Beth Andrea

Well, seeing "a man in a dress" does make a lot of people uncomfortable, that's a simple and obvious truth.

The way to fix that is to acknowledge it and approach those people with that in mind. Why are they uncomfortable? Because gender standards are seen as inviolate..."men should be men, and wear manly clothes. To do otherwise is to invite the idea that less manly men are ok...and if I tolerate that, then maybe I am a less-manly man."

Hmm...put that way, it sounds a lot like what I heard as a kid: if one was for civil rights of blacks, then s/he must be a "n***** lover", and very few whites wanted that reputation.

Over time it was accepted that civil rights are inherent in being American; it is what an individual does with them that determines if someone is good or bad ("...judged by the content of their character, not the color of their skin...")

We could paraphrase that with, "...judged by the content of their character, not the clothes they wear."

...I think for most of us it is a futile effort to try and put this genie back in the bottle once she has tasted freedom...

--read in a Tessa James post 1/16/2017
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Dayta

What she's tapping into is not just transphobia, it's misogyny.  Maybe this is her first true feeling as a woman, and I do feel for her.  If you look at the people that she's surrounded herself with, it shouldn't be too surprising what her perspective is.  I hope that with time she discovers that there's more to being a woman than looking good for men. 

I kind of find this whole experience as similar to the Trump circus in some ways.  It seemed to come out of nowhere, and lots of people got on the bandwagon, hoping that she'd be a visible champion that would raise the level of public perceptions in ways that non-celebrities can't always reach.  But now in the light of day, we find that she's not really a spokesperson, a role model, just someone trying to make a buck by being known, and finding that even the most outrageous statements, eliciting the most negative responses, still serve to keep the spotlight on.  There's no such thing as bad publicity, they say. 




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OCAnne

In honor of Ms. Jenner's statement.  Apparently I will be going out today looking like a man dressed as a woman.  A nice fitted Ann Taylor piece in burgundy.  Hopefully I get sired so I can lift my dress and show them what this woman looks like.  And no, I won't be wearing panties, as usual. Hope that brings them some comfort.

Anne


'My Music, Much Money, Many Moons'
YTMV (Your Transsexualism May Vary)
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Lyndsey

Quote from: audreelyn on December 11, 2015, 10:44:00 PM
We should invite Caitlyn to this forum and have a real discussion with her.

I mean really bring the real issues out there. That's what she needs to be putting on her show. Helping the T community rather than her own image.

Doubt she would even reply. Maybe we ought to give it a shot though... anyone know how to go about that respectfully??

Audree

Hi Audree

I completely agree with you. I don't think she would ever reply but it is a great Idea. I have talked to Candice Caine and she is a sweet heart but she is a busy lady too.

Hugs
Lyndsey
Lyndsey Marie Burke- Started my journey February 2011 Full time on May 5th 2014 HRT June 6th 2014 Name change and on all records and court documents June 20th 2014 SCS October 20th 2015 with Doctor Marci Bowers in Burlingame California I'm a very Happy women and finally living what I should have been living my whole life. Expect the unexpected. I feel Blessed. Love, Live, Be Happy. Be safe.
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Devlyn

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Beth Andrea

Although I still stand by my first comment (that the only people with a problem are those with gender issues themselves), after having read the article, I've gotta say...

Caitlin is an elitest, "upper crust" ignorant...woman.

The "miad" statements are directed at US, not those with the actual problem...not all of us can afford SRS, let alone FFS and dedicated staff to help us with wardrobe and makeup...are we the ones contributing to the discomfort of others, or is it THEIR fault for having misguided ideas about gender?

Then she talks about "getting an entry level job" rather than being on welfare! LOL! She's over 60 and looks reasonably good...but has she tried to get an entry-level job? It's not that easy once one is over about 30...nevermind that many employers, entry level or not, won't hire an trans*person, whether or not they "pass"! Again, the opinion that we are all likely sex workers or welfare recipients is based on a false idea--that we don't want to work...when the truth is that employers won't hire us because we don't fit their ideas or their customers ideas of gender!

THAT is where the problem lies, not in the snooty "I'm better than you, and you should try to be more like me" nonsense of the rich.

/rant over
...I think for most of us it is a futile effort to try and put this genie back in the bottle once she has tasted freedom...

--read in a Tessa James post 1/16/2017
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Gertrude


Quote from: Deborah on December 11, 2015, 10:32:35 PM
Caitlyn Jenner Says Looking Like A Man In A Dress Makes People Uncomfortable

http://www.inquisitr.com/2627089/caitlyn-jenner-says-looking-like-a-man-in-a-dress-makes-people-uncomfortable/#utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+google%2FyDYq+%28The+Inquisitr+-+News%29

Inquisitr/By Niki Cruz     12/11/2015

Reading the article I come away with the impression that she has no idea at all what this is like for the majority of us.  She's worried about looking good for the paparazzi while many others are worried about being killed.


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I'm not worried about being killed, but passing would be nice.

I think a lot of it is attitude. While I am very early in this, I've always had the attitude that if someone laid a hand on me, god help them. I won't be a victim. Again.


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BeverlyAnn

Quote from: audreelyn on December 11, 2015, 10:44:00 PM
We should invite Caitlyn to this forum and have a real discussion with her.

I mean really bring the real issues out there. That's what she needs to be putting on her show. Helping the T community rather than her own image.

Doubt she would even reply. Maybe we ought to give it a shot though... anyone know how to go about that respectfully??

Audree

Go to Jennifer Finney Boylan's website and use the contact e-mail address there.  Someone who is more literate than I could e-mail Jenny since she's one of Caitlyn's mentors and invite Caitlyn here.  Who knows if it would do any good but might be worth a try. 

I've defended her in the past but I'm going to have trouble doing that in the future if she keeps making stupid comments. 
Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much. - Oscar Wilde



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Lyndsey

Lyndsey Marie Burke- Started my journey February 2011 Full time on May 5th 2014 HRT June 6th 2014 Name change and on all records and court documents June 20th 2014 SCS October 20th 2015 with Doctor Marci Bowers in Burlingame California I'm a very Happy women and finally living what I should have been living my whole life. Expect the unexpected. I feel Blessed. Love, Live, Be Happy. Be safe.
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Maybebaby56

Quote from: Dayta on December 12, 2015, 08:46:31 AM
What she's tapping into is not just transphobia, it's misogyny. 
I don't get how her comments were transphobic. She is probably right when she says most people would be uncomfortable dealing with someone who looks like "a man in a dress".  It's not a judgement, it's an empirical observation. I don't see it as misogynistic, either.  Everyone gets judged by their appearance, including men.  That's just the way the world works.   

Quote from: Beth Andrea on December 12, 2015, 12:55:55 PM
...are we the ones contributing to the discomfort of others, or is it THEIR fault for having misguided ideas about gender?
Yes, transgender people make some people uncomfortable.  That's just a fact. As far as attributing "fault" to anyone who doesn't see things your/our way, that's a bit arrogant, and very self-defeating when you are asking for understanding and accommodation.  Much like the civil rights movement in the 1960s over race, it was not all that obvious to everyone then that racial equality was not only morally right, but benefitted everyone.  It's not obvious to everyone even now.

So if you think you can tell people, "You're wrong about gender, and it's your own damn fault for not agreeing with me", be my guest, but I don't think it will get you, or the transgender community very far.

With kindness,

Terri
 

"How we spend our days is, of course, how we spend our lives" - Annie Dillard
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Gertrude

In some ways this is no different that politics and in some ways worse. If someone doesn't read from the prescribed talking points and use the right doxology, they are condemned. It's bad enough that we're not accepted and have shame because of that, do we need to shame people that don't talk and act in a way that conforms to a de facto set of rules? I hope not.
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Gertrude

Quote from: BeverlyAnn on December 12, 2015, 02:11:36 PM
Go to Jennifer Finney Boylan's website and use the contact e-mail address there.  Someone who is more literate than I could e-mail Jenny since she's one of Caitlyn's mentors and invite Caitlyn here.  Who knows if it would do any good but might be worth a try. 

I've defended her in the past but I'm going to have trouble doing that in the future if she keeps making stupid comments.

I've emailed Jenny and she responded to me. She's a very sincere person and makes the effort to connect. It's worth a try.
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finallyjoanne

I would have preferred if Ms. Jenner's comments had been followed by her saying "but people have to do what they have to, and unfortunately not everyone has the resources to have all of the plastic surgery, fashion advice, counseling, voice lessons and other benefits that one gets by being the star on several pseudo-reality TV shows." Frankly, I liked Caitlyn better when she was on a Wheaties box. And whatever that most courageous award was all about, she should have had to come down to where we all live - in the real world - and she would have seen what courage is really all about.

Mod Edit: Corrected misgendering.
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Lyndsey

Quote from: OOAnne on December 12, 2015, 08:50:53 AM
In honor of Ms. Jenner's statement.  Apparently I will be going out today looking like a man dressed as a woman.  A nice fitted Ann Taylor piece in burgundy.  Hopefully I get sired so I can lift my dress and show them what this woman looks like.  And no, I won't be wearing panties, as usual. Hope that brings them some comfort.

Anne

Hi Anne you are too funny
Lyndsey
Lyndsey Marie Burke- Started my journey February 2011 Full time on May 5th 2014 HRT June 6th 2014 Name change and on all records and court documents June 20th 2014 SCS October 20th 2015 with Doctor Marci Bowers in Burlingame California I'm a very Happy women and finally living what I should have been living my whole life. Expect the unexpected. I feel Blessed. Love, Live, Be Happy. Be safe.
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