Pray the trans away

[Jill F]

If praying the trans away worked, then most of us would be ex-transgender.  How many ex-transgender people are there?

[Tamika Olivia]

Honestly, avoiding the religious guilt is one of the reasons I'm glad the atheism caught on in my brain before I wised up to the trans facts. I used to tie myself in knots over sex and masturbation, and how God felt about it. Now I'm just concerned with what I think... lot less crowded in my brain.

Not to say there's anything with trying to reconcile your faith and your gender identity... just that it's a burden I'm glad to be without.

[Deborah]

Actually Gallae were as close to trans women as there were.  Although there were none in Jerusalem there were plenty in Rome.  Whether St. Paul was condemning them or not is a matter for debate although St. Augustine did later call them out specifically with some pretty horrible language.

Honestly, I've studied the Bible a lot and I remain unconvinced by the eunuch argument.  Eunuchs were pretty common and had nothing to do with trans in that historical context, place and time.


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[WaterGirl]

Get this:
And I quote:
    "...since that time I have worked with many people who were struggling with homosexuality, but could not seem to do anything about it.
One man came to me, he was married with children...upon checking him I found there were five female spirits within him. They were sent away and he left.The next morning he called. "It's like flipping a switch. Suddenly men lost their appeal. I never realized women were so beautiful."

I could go on, but that pretty much gives a summary.

From Healing the Inner Self, From Darkness to Light. By "Dr." Melvin Fish (excommunicated Mormon)

Although this reference is to sexual preference, I can't help but think the good "Doctor" would treat ->-bleeped-<-/gender dysphoria similarly. Reparative therapy, anyone?Sheesh.

The scary part is this book was foisted upon me by my therapist...

Katie

[Tamika Olivia]

Ugh... that doesn't sound like a healthy book, and should be immediate grounds for a new therapist. The one you've got seems to be infested wit Pat Robertson spirits.

[Jamie_06]

For what it's worth, I got involved in Evangelical Christianity around the same time I started having fantasies of being a girl. Worst timing ever; when I started getting afraid of where my sense of self was going, religion was right there to help me bury my emerging awareness of myself. If I'd stuck with it, I may well have transitioned when I was 18-20. Instead, I had to wait until I could break free of religion enough to realize that I'd been hiding from my feelings, which didn't happen until I was 28 just this year.

And I still have a paralyzing fear of being wrong, a lack of trust in my own judgment, and a psychological need to have everything unusual I do approved my some authority figure because of what I went through. Even though religion can help repress certain unwanted feelings, it can also do a lot of damage in the process and eventually they'll come back anyway.

That's not to say that all religion is negative, though. I still remain a Christian despite what I went through. I just remind myself that the church as it is today clearly isn't what Jesus intended to create and He clearly wouldn't judge us in the way that His so-called followers do. Actually, in figuring out who I am, I have been praying for guidance regularly as well.

[Deborah]

The power of suggestion is real to those prone to superstition.  The question is was that man's cure permanent?  I'll bet not. 

I cured myself through prayer a whole bunch of times.  None of those cures lasted longer than three days.


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[WaterGirl]

I'm thinking so too. It's too bad because she has been helpful, maybe just because she's been an ear to tell my story. Then she gives me this book...

There isn't a gender therapist within 250 miles  :/



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[WaterGirl]

Deborah,
No, he kept coming back to have more spirits released...
Mmmmkay youuu betcha



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[WaterGirl]

As Denali said (and I paraphrase):
It's sad some choose to believe force fed misconceptions rather than just accept Gods unconditional love.
Katie


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[Deborah]

God works through his people and there is often no love at all.  So . . .


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[Qrachel]

Hi to All:

This is an interesting thread . . . Personally, I've been all over the map with religion, except for blind faith replacing critical thinking.  I'm fine that many people have a need for and receive some personal satisfaction from religion, that's all and good.  Further, I'm not one that is so inclined and don't make or seek any special consideration therein as a result.  Now, if those of a religious bent could be so kind in return, then the world be a much more loving place.

It's mostly downhill from here with me and religion, though I'm not nasty or abusive about my general inclinations towards religion.  I'm definitely from the critical thinking school of humanity and willing admit that what I don't know that I don't know is infinitely larger than my knowledge and/or intellect.

Take care all and I enjoy the conversation,

Rachel

[Adena]

God works through his people and there is often no love at all.  So . . .

Well, I'd say if there is no love at all they aren't really God's people (they seem to have purchased their fire insurance long ago and then just checked out from their responsibility to try their best to becoming the loving people God wants us to be); but it's not my place to judge I suppose. And if you are more or less excommunicated then it's so sad, because the church is losing some of its most precious and devoted members, in my humble opinion. Honestly, I see a bunch of loving and caring people on this forum that more reflect the example of Jesus in their lives than the average church-goer. I think it's interesting how so many of us have been almost forced to re-evaluate our faith and have taken different paths in terms of atheism, agnosticism, or searching for and hopefully finding what the true core of our faith. I respect you all.

Love,
Denali

[cheryl reeves]

Like Jesus/Heysus said if you love me keep my fathers commandments, that's the 10 commandments that Yehuah spoke at sini,first 4 is how too love god, the last 6 has too do with loving one another.. I'm a rabbi and a Messianic preacher for Yehoshua did not come for a church but to break the covenant to reset the covenant for the 3rd time and bring in a new nation of israelites. I've studied the bible and church history for 30 yrs and when I seen the truth I stopped calling myself a sunworshipper/Christian, and started on a new path following the true savour of Israel.

[Deborah]

Well, I'd say if there is no love at all they aren't really God's people (they seem to have purchased their fire insurance long ago and then just checked out from their responsibility to try their best to becoming the loving people God wants us to be); but it's not my place to judge I suppose. And if you are more or less excommunicated then it's so sad, because the church is losing some of its most precious and devoted members, in my humble opinion. Honestly, I see a bunch of loving and caring people on this forum that more reflect the example of Jesus in their lives than the average church-goer. I think it's interesting how so many of us have been almost forced to re-evaluate our faith and have taken different paths in terms of atheism, agnosticism, or searching for and hopefully finding what the true core of our faith. I respect you all.

Love,
Denali

Thanks for saying that.  I may end up in the end back right where I started, in the Episcopal Church, before I got sidetracked into fundamentalist nutbaggery.  I do miss the high church Eucharistic celebration.


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[Stevi]

I appreciate this congenial conversation.  I am a highly unorthodox Christian myself.  I am uncomfortable using the appellation "Christian" since it has been largely misappropriated by so many that do not follow Christ.  I, too, spent many years praying the curse, sin, fault, devil and a number of other sources of this form of humanness away.

In the most recent several years, I have come to the conclusion that the transgender state of the person I am is a fundamental aspect of the person within this body.  I have sometimes wondered, if Jesus was walking among us as he did some two thousand years ago, would He, if I pleaded for healing in His presence, change my person-hood to match my body, or would He change my body to match my person-hood.  Think about it.  He did not tell the blind-so-born to be content to not see or make them not desire to be seeing.  He healed their physical infirmity to be in accord with the person within.

I know this, that when God proceeds to judge (read as- adjust our understanding of how things truly were- tell it like it is) He will do it based on the inward man/woman and not on the outward genitalia.  I also know that judgement will be be rooted in love, mercy, compassion and understanding.

Stephanie

[WaterGirl]

Stephanie,
Beautiful. Thank you
Katie


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[Adena]

Thanks for saying that.  I may end up in the end back right where I started, in the Episcopal Church, before I got sidetracked into fundamentalist nutbaggery.  I do miss the high church Eucharistic celebration.

Thanks Deborah. Sometimes we just have to look pass the nonsense from other fallible beings in the church (remembering of course that we have our faults too!) and enjoy Beauty where we can. I love the really old music of the church - I had a deeply spiritual experience once at a Westminster Abbey Eucharist service with the singing of beautiful 1000 year old songs of worship.  I also love heading to remote places to experience God in the raw beauty of Nature.

Stephanie - I love the way you put things, thanks for sharing.

[Debra]

I came out to a close, accepting friend. He is a kind man, and my wife and I both cherish him. Cut to the chase, he started talking about coming to church and that might help "get rid of those feelings." I believe in God, I believe in His unconditional love, no matter how we identify. I don't know quite what to say to my friend. He doesn't get it, and I want to help him understand without alienating him. Thoughts? 
Thank you,
Katie

Ugh ugh ugh ugh. This is how my church treated me and esp my 'mens bible study group'. I don't feel like there's much you can do to make them understand....except be who you are, transition, and live life and be happy.

Some of the haters have cheered me on after realizing how different and happy I was after and some have continued to say 'it's a sin' and blah blah blah. (including my parents).

There will always be those that do not want to 'get it'.

That being said, this site helped me some originally: http://www.transchristians.org/

[SamKelley]

Samantha,
Thank you for the advice. I am repeatedly gratified by the wonderful support here.
I've always been aware of the hypocrisy of many "religious" people, and since I came out (to myself, too, if that makes any sense) it has become even more apparent.  I wish more people would remember the fundamental message is love, not judgement. 

I need to remember your words about my job being to know myself, not fix my friend's view.

Hugs,
Katie

I just want to say something which has helped me a great deal. Dr Scott Peck wrote a book in 1978 called The Road Less Travelled. For me it's helped me sort out once and for all the difference between my issues, and someone else's issues - one of the most difficult and ongoing existential challenges for some. I feel almost silly saying it, but the other thing that's helped me with this (and is continuing to help) is working at it with my psychologist.

PS, I love the name Katie