Gender identity, sexual orientation are programmed into our brains before birth

[Kylo]

From about 5 years of frequenting various trans forums and trans people's blogs. I've seen more than a few people progress from straightness to bisexuality, to lesbianism etc. according to their own admission. And quite a few topics alluding to the poster asking whether it was normal to feel like their sexuality was morphing during HRT. That they were once attracted to women and now only men, or vice versa, or both etc.

I'm going to go on what they claim in words, rather than assume for them that they are just more comfortable with themselves. Some might be, but there's no other way to know other than what a person admits about themselves.

[jossam]

From about 5 years of frequenting various trans forums and trans people's blogs. I've seen more than a few people progress from straightness to bisexuality, to lesbianism etc. according to their own admission. And quite a few topics alluding to the poster asking whether it was normal to feel like their sexuality was morphing during HRT. That they were once attracted to women and now only men, or vice versa, or both etc.

I'm going to go on what they claim in words, rather than assume for them that they are just more comfortable with themselves. Some might be, but there's no other way to know other than what a person admits about themselves.

Some people seem to have fluid sexuality and have experiences with various genders. I suspect those who say they changed their sexuality are simply bisexuals who find themselves more attracted to one gender at some point, either because of hormones triggering something pre-existent or just themselves being more comfortable.
I could never imagine myself not being attracted to women. I love women to the point of being attracted to many of them at once. But I could totally imagine myself being more comfortable with sex in general after transition, because I want to be able to take my shirt off and be free. And for some reason I'd be more comfortable with men....I suspect it's because right now I don't want people to assume I'm cis and hetero if I show interest in a guy and invalidate my gender. Assuming I'm lesbian would be equally offensive. I guess this is why I just feel uncomfortable with sex, unless those people respect and recognize my actual male gender.
What worries me is a change in sex drive....I already have a high sex drive pre T, I hope it won't increase too much on T because that would mean I'd have to make huge efforts to control it - cause it's already high pre T.

[RavenMoon]

Here's the thing with homophobes. They are usually in the closet. They are using God to hide their desires behind.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/homophobes-might-be-hidden-homosexuals/


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[Futurist]

Here's the thing with homophobes. They are usually in the closet. They are using God to hide their desires behind.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/homophobes-might-be-hidden-homosexuals/


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Often, Yes--certainly! However, are you sure that the word "usually" isn't too strong of a word to describe the frequency of this?

[RavenMoon]

In the various studies done it would indicate yes, the majority of them have homo sexual impulses.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/8772014/


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[RavenMoon]

http://www.feelguide.com/2011/06/16/new-science-confirms-homophobic-men-have-intense-homosexual-impulses/


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[Futurist]

In the various studies done it would indicate yes, the majority of them have homo sexual impulses.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/8772014/


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That's a very small sample size, no?

[AnxietyDisord3r]

Some people seem to have fluid sexuality and have experiences with various genders. I suspect those who say they changed their sexuality are simply bisexuals who find themselves more attracted to one gender at some point, either because of hormones triggering something pre-existent or just themselves being more comfortable.

I would never want to say that firmly. Hormones DO impact cells in your brain so there's no reason to assume they couldn't impact sexual orientation. However, I think this phenom is a lot rarer than the "street talk" that goes around in our community.

Just for context, I am monosexual and have never experienced fluidity in sexual orientation. No change on T either. But the bisexuals in my life have experienced sexual fluidity, which means a precession or change in relative attraction to one sex and/or gender or other. It's just part of the bisexual experience and it can be set off by anything or nothing at all. So, a hormone shift could set off this precession in an individual. Then maybe they precess back. For example, Julia Serano originally came out as a lesbian but now identifies as bi. She says she didn't always realize that she was bisexual, but she was always bisexual even before HRT. It is also a very common thing in American society not to realize you are bisexual and therefore different from others until young adulthood, that is, somewhat later than monosexuals report being aware of their sexuality on average.

[AnxietyDisord3r]

That's a very small sample size, no?

Pretty sure those studies have been repeated.

There are some issues with the method, and issues with applying those findings to women. But I think what underlies these results is how many times the Gay community has found its greatest political adversaries trolling for sex in all the wrong places. With the except of Fred Phelps (whose animus towards gays--and the military--apparently stemmed from having been raped while in the military), almost every every high profile professional homophobe has been caught with their pants down. Ted Haggard. Ken Mehlman. Numerous homophobic legislators. That ex-gay caught in a gay bar. They're like Jimmy Swaggart, pounding the pulpit every Sunday about the very sins of the flesh that bring them down. (For non Americans, in the 1980s he inveighed against adultery in florid detail while behind the scenes he was nailing a young lady who wasn't his wife.)

[Reptillian]

Pretty sure those studies have been repeated.

There are some issues with the method, and issues with applying those findings to women. But I think what underlies these results is how many times the Gay community has found its greatest political adversaries trolling for sex in all the wrong places. With the except of Fred Phelps (whose animus towards gays--and the military--apparently stemmed from having been raped while in the military), almost every every high profile professional homophobe has been caught with their pants down. Ted Haggard. Ken Mehlman. Numerous homophobic legislators. That ex-gay caught in a gay bar. They're like Jimmy Swaggart, pounding the pulpit every Sunday about the very sins of the flesh that bring them down. (For non Americans, in the 1980s he inveighed against adultery in florid detail while behind the scenes he was nailing a young lady who wasn't his wife.)

You're right, there are problems with the method, and there's a study I know of which suggest male physical arousal correlates with subjective arousal less than 50 percent, and it was a indepth study. So, yes the study you are talking about can be disregarded.

As far as gender/sexuality changes, it can happen and there are few stroke studies suggesting it can and Diamonds' studies point to that. Brain changes to sexuality/gender aspect to it can affect one's sexuality. I say this as a person whose sexuality has died.

[AnxietyDisord3r]

I could never imagine myself not being attracted to women. I love women to the point of being attracted to many of them at once. But I could totally imagine myself being more comfortable with sex in general after transition, because I want to be able to take my shirt off and be free. And for some reason I'd be more comfortable with men....I suspect it's because right now I don't want people to assume I'm cis and hetero if I show interest in a guy and invalidate my gender. Assuming I'm lesbian would be equally offensive. I guess this is why I just feel uncomfortable with sex, unless those people respect and recognize my actual male gender.

I am also more comfortable approaching men sexually as a man, basically for the same reasons, but I'm still not sexually attracted to them. Not before, not now. So it would be about getting rocks off. This is something known as "situational homosexuality" in anthropology. It's about convenience, not sexual preference.

I knew this about myself before I started T but I was curious if it would change on T. Nope. No change.

What worries me is a change in sex drive....I already have a high sex drive pre T, I hope it won't increase too much on T because that would mean I'd have to make huge efforts to control it - cause it's already high pre T.

Here is what I have found about sex drive and T: the first few months suck because you're going through genital growth. If you wear the wrong clothing it can actually hurt. At one point I was covering it in coconut oil so it wouldn't distract me. As for needing to masturbate a lot, if you keep mentally and physically busy the urge fades quickly. Especially heavy physical labor will do this. Of course if your form of physical labor ends up stimulating that area too I guess it is what it is. At least nobody will see your erection.

[AnxietyDisord3r]

You're right, there are problems with the method, and there's a study I know of which suggest male physical arousal correlates with subjective arousal less than 50 percent, and it was a indepth study. So, yes the study you are talking about can be disregarded.

Seriously? I don't think so at all. Physical arousal ends up corresponding with surreptitious behavior way too often. Subjective arousal is subject to cultural factors, societal control. That was my point bringing up the open homophobes (who often, especially on online forums, wanted to tell us in detail about "the butt sex"). They would claim until blue in the face to be 110% heterosexual while sneaking around getting their rocks off with dudes (or ladies) in private.

The experiment set out to SHOW that physical arousal didn't correspond with subjective. So there you go. It also showed that expressing more homophobia verbally corresponded with more male/male physical arousal. Huh. I think that is demonstrated, not disregardable. I think that's a proven fact that what a person tells you about their sexual identity does not necessarily track with what turns their body on.

[Chloe]

Gender identity perhaps but sexual orientation? How does one account for so much diversity, the wide range of sexuality that exists? In this deterministic, anything goes society where 'normal' is totally discredited what happens to choice, free will? Is there only 'perversion' and chaos with no hope of normative order at all?

As a youth I was exclusively attracted only to girls on an strongly emotional level that had an almost vampire like quality of dependence, to the total exclusion of 'sex'. The only thing I knew for sure I was completely attached to the feminine mystic at the total expense of anything 'me'; a young handsome male in sheep's clothing for sure.

Feeling/having nothing "to prove" then along came alleged "gay sex". However, being unwilling to 'reciprocate' in like fashion is when realized I was sexually frustrating not only young women but gay men as well. Something had to change, a CHOICE was made, and it had to be either me or 'them'!

LOL Changing 'Glenn', my HS sweetheart, did NOT work out at all!!

Unlike some intolerant democrats (two wrongs doesn't = 'right) one cannot change the world to suit our needs but rather one must adapt and try to 'fit in'. Totally not understanding either "gay" or "lesbian" feel 'trans' was a conscious choice I made in an desperate attempt to be 'normal', which some say doesn't exist?

So plz don't tell me there's no connection between identity and orientation because I have spent my entire life adjusting my sexuality (lol or lack thereof) to fit my gender with social acceptance just as important, if not moreso, as 'passing'.

The former we can totally control. The latter? Unfortunately for some not so much.

Their finding are revealing that even within the transsexual community there is much diversity. For example, a biological male who experiences gender dysphoria, and thus feels like a female, can be either gay or straight when it comes to his sexual orientation. And beyond the mixing and matching that occurs between sex, gender and sexual orientation, a huge array of psychological and cultural factors seems to underlie or affect trans sexuality.