Uhh...

[Xirafel]

Urmm... This is embarrassing... Awkward... Uhh... Hi?

So... I don't even know where to start...
Do I just buy it over the counter or something? Does it change everything?
Well, obviously not everything, unfortunately x.x I doubt pills (or is it a syringe?) can change bones or organs.
Urmm... Is it too late at 21? I heard some things won't change no matter what, if it's too late and that's terrible.

Somehow I descended into a nervous wreck. It's like my instinctual response to anyone who might start mocking me, even if I know they won't -.-

I'll just scurry off now...

[Dena]

Welcome  to Susan's Place. In most countries there is an advanced medical system in place that you can access through your doctor. In addition, in the United States we have something called informed consent which in some parts of the country allow you to start HRT without extensive therapy and in the UK there is bridging treatment which is used while you are waiting for the system to get around to treating you. A gender therapist is a good place to start as they will help you explore yourself and are a good source of contacts for additional treatment.

You can transition at any age and I was unable to start HRT until I was 26. Others on the site have started much latter with even better results than I have had.

As for the rest, makeup, hair, fashions and whatever, this is a good place for what ever you need.

Should anybody ever give you a hard time on this site, simply hit the report to moderator button on the post and a moderator will correct the problem. There is no reason to feel uncomfortable on this site and any question you don't know the answer to should be asked. Let me know if there is anything I can help you with.

We issue to all new members the following links so you will best be able to use the web site.

Things that you should read

Site Terms of Service & Rules to Live By	Standard Terms & Definitions	Post Ranks (including when you can upload an avatar)
Reputation rules	News posting & quoting guidelines	Photo, avatars, & signature images policy

[Xirafel]

Alright, I think I'm in a less nervous mood now. It felt like unveiling one's deepest secrets. Unnerving.

I'm weird enough without creating more reasons for people to think I'm weird x.x
More specifically, for MTF... Do the bones still change or not? I knew I forgot to mention something, I just didn't have a handle on it.

And out of curiosity, how do things work specifically in Australia?
A therapist, huh. Hopefully, they won't say I'm insane. Is it expensive?

[Dena]

I think I may have seen some change in my bones but very little. On the other hand fat movement has made a great differenced in the shape of my body. It takes a while to happen and unfortunately my rear is the one place I am lacking but breast and legs while not great are still enough for me to be comfortable.

We have many Australian members including my boss Cindy so they can give you more detail, but if you have full medical coverage the government will pay many of your expenses. Referral may be a bit on the slow side but once your are in the system you will find you are treated well. As for being insane, you are not. Transgender is something that happens before you were born and it will always be with you. It is a physical condition and not a mental condition and if a doctor says otherwise, get another doctor. The links section of the site may help you locating a doctor if you are looking for one.

[Xirafel]

We have many Australian members including my boss Cindy so they can give you more detail, but if you have full medical coverage the government will pay many of your expenses. Referral may be a bit on the slow side but once your are in the system you will find you are treated well.

Okay.

It is a physical condition and not a mental condition and if a doctor says otherwise, get another doctor. The links section of the site may help you locating a doctor if you are looking for one.

A doctor. Any medical doctor? My aunt's a doctor, although I doubt she's equipped for something like that and she was promoted into a managerial position rather than dealing with patients.

Ouch, that would make an awkward conversation. And I don't think I'll be able to see her for a few years, unless I get in a plane. Complicated.

If only I could go back in time and tell myself how stupid I am. Very stupid. Total moron.
I read those articles of the children acting like their world is falling apart and screaming.
Yeah... Should have done that. Little good hiding did. Looking back, I think I could have twisted my parent's arms.

Unfortunately, I was also a little too smart for my own good. I never left a paper trail.
Erased anything that could be constituted as evidence on the computer.
They only caught me cross-dressing like once or twice, but then I just got better at hiding it.
Merely a shy child who didn't want to be seen as a freak. A moronic one at that.

Can't remember which age that was exactly... 12? Earlier? Somewhere around there.
Oops, I almost started ranting. That's no good, I could go on for half an hour.

And what's with the constant triple CAPTCHA to make sure I'm not a bot? x.x
If I'm a bot, then my creator is a genius.

[Dena]

We all get pretty good at hiding. I knew at 13 and got caught once by my brother coming home when I didn't expect him. I got blackmailed off that and outed the first time. I lied my way out of it and went back in the closet until I was 23. In my case it wouldn't have made any difference as medical treatment wasn't closer than 2000 miles and they wouldn't treat you unless you were 18. In addition my parents couldn't have afforded the treatment so at least in the closet, nobody bugged me.

Medical views have changed but there are still a few bad doctors out there so if you run into one, FIRE THEM as soon as possible. You have waited far to long and you don't need to deal with the system for 8 years like I did to get where you are going. I didn't have any options as early as I was but in 40 years things have greatly improved.

As for the bot thing, I am not sure of the exact count, but if you read the links I gave you, you will be freed and become a human by 15 posts. We often are attacked on this site and unfortunately, making sure you are human is a requirement.

[Lady_Oracle]

Alright, I think I'm in a less nervous mood now. It felt like unveiling one's deepest secrets. Unnerving.

I'm weird enough without creating more reasons for people to think I'm weird x.x
More specifically, for MTF... Do the bones still change or not? I knew I forgot to mention something, I just didn't have a handle on it.

And out of curiosity, how do things work specifically in Australia?
A therapist, huh. Hopefully, they won't say I'm insane. Is it expensive?

Take what I'm about to say with an extreme grain of salt lol. Anyways yes to answer your question, bones arent set by mid 20s or so but the odds of it happening at your age are minimal but the chance is there, depending on what your background/medical history. Like in my case I never really masculinzed during puberty minus a voice drop and facial hair, my skeletal structure for some reason developed more like the women of my family. Anyways long story short I started hrt at 21 with a small rib cage and already wide hips so when I started E, everything just fell into place physically and so my hips got bigger bone wise within the first 4 months. I know this for a fact because I was very meticulous about taking measurements of my body constantly. And I didn't really gain weight till a couple of years later (fast metoblism) plus fat redistribution takes forever so I knew for certain it couldnt have been that.

To contrast what I'm saying had I not started hrt when I did, I'm pretty sure eventually my bones would of set for life and would of masculinzed at some point because I was still being exposed to T. From what I've read of others who have had similar body types like myself prehrt but didn't start till their later 20s and 30s..etc They usually all ended up masculinzing to some degree eventually.

[Xirafel]

before you were born

I'm about 90% sure that it was probably due to brain damage immediately after birth where some genius (x.x) accidentally cut off the oxygen supply. Unfortunately, mankind knows next to nothing about the brain.
They'll probably figure out how to do a 100% sex change before they vaguely figure out how the human brain works.

We all get pretty good at hiding. I knew at 13 and got caught once by my brother coming home when I didn't expect him. I got blackmailed off that and outed the first time. I lied my way out of it and went back in the closet until I was 23.

My mother was pretty thorough with searching. Under the bed. Under the mattress. In the drawers. Etc.
Luckily, they made a lot of mix-ups with the laundry and odd things ended up in my wardrobe. Even underwear. I'm guessing they weren't paying much attention. How they missed some of the really frilly or purple / pink ones, I have no clue.

Apparently, they were smart enough to not throw skirts in though, so I had to infiltrate some places, while being nervous about each and every footstep. Creaky floorboards.
I don't know how I was dumb enough to do it, but it turned out that wearing a bra under regular clothes was a really bad idea and resulted in getting caught.

In my case it wouldn't have made any difference as medical treatment wasn't closer than 2000 miles and they wouldn't treat you unless you were 18. In addition my parents couldn't have afforded the treatment so at least in the closet, nobody bugged me.

For the most part, I was an ignorant child. The few occasions I heard of it involved extensive surgery, etc. as many people seem to equate it with getting everything done. Hormones? All I knew is that it had something to do with menstruation. Practically nothing.

I'm convinced that my parents knew about the condition in general but not my own condition and Ugh.
I was an idiot. If someone ever invents a time machine, I'll have to pay myself a visit.

I'm fairly skinny with a ridiculously fast metabolism, so hopefully that might have positive results in looking passable? Probably not. The hips are... Not even close. Don't know about the shoulders. Voice is obviously off. Face is well... Bad.

[Dena]

I'm about 90% sure that it was probably due to brain damage immediately after birth where some genius (x.x) accidentally cut off the oxygen supply. Unfortunately, mankind knows next to nothing about the brain.
They'll probably figure out how to do a 100% sex change before they vaguely figure out how the human brain works.

Our gender identity and sexual preference are determined long before we are born so while cutting off oxygen isn't a good thing, it didn't cause this.

My mother was pretty thorough with searching. Under the bed. Under the mattress. In the drawers. Etc.
Luckily, they made a lot of mix-ups with the laundry and odd things ended up in my wardrobe. Even underwear. I'm guessing they weren't paying much attention. How they missed some of the really frilly or purple / pink ones, I have no clue.

Apparently, they were smart enough to not throw skirts in though, so I had to infiltrate some places, while being nervous about each and every footstep. Creaky floorboards.
I don't know how I was dumb enough to do it, but it turned out that wearing a bra under regular clothes was a really bad idea and resulted in getting caught.

My mother paid far to much attention for a accident like the to happen. My brother and I shared the same dresser and our stuff never got mixed up. Much of it looked alike and only varied by a difference in size.

I'm fairly skinny with a ridiculously fast metabolism, so hopefully that might have positive results in looking passable? Probably not. The hips are... Not even close. Don't know about the shoulders. Voice is obviously off. Face is well... Bad.

You have a good starting point and the doctor won't be asking you to lose weight before you can receive HRT. As for the rest of it, let's see what we can do.

[Lady Sarah]

A fast metabolism will slow down fat distribution, since there isn't much fat to start with. I know. At 50, I am still at my high school weight, and I started hormones at 25.  You can still develope into a lovely young lady, with all the curves and everything. Your metabolism just means the change in your body shape may take longer than average.

[Xirafel]

I was going to write up a thread venting, but that would feel really bad after hearing you say that.

Alright, I had the weirdest conversation imaginable. I confess to my mother and she gives me a long speech about weird spiritual stuff involving reincarnation.
It boggles my mind. Maybe, I'm a little too good at acting?

So, she's dragging me off to speak to the spirits or something to get their opinion? I don't know what's going on. What has she converted to this time...
Well, at-least she said I would reincarnate as a girl, that'll give me some false hope.

Maybe, I should have spoken to the rational one. No... He's a little too grumpy these days.

Something I didn't mention is that I'm in a very... Complicated situation. Living in Australia for the next few years, I'm not a citizen however, and was born in the UK.
While I'd love to put it off for a few years, the symptoms are becoming extremely annoying.

Palpitations, panic attacks, emotional breakdowns, irrationally pleading with higher beings, crying, extreme stress, lack of concentration from the annoying thing constantly resounding in my head, etc.

Also, what would you do about voices? I used to love singing, but then my voice went bad and that was that. Out the window. I hate speaking as I don't want to hear it.

[Dena]

Also, what would you do about voices? I used to love singing, but then my voice went bad and that was that. Out the window. I hate speaking as I don't want to hear it.

HRT will not effect your voice but there are two options. Most of the time it's possible to train your voice to sound feminine. It's not difficult to do but it takes a lot of work to get it right. I have had voice surgery because my voice was one of the few that therapy wasn't able to help. Voice surgery only added to my pitch and I still need to use my training to make the voice sound feminine.

[Violets]

A doctor. Any medical doctor?

Hi Xirafel, I am also in Australia. Originally, I went to my family GP and asked for a referral to a therapist with experience dealing with transgender patients. After a few months of seeing the therapist, she wrote a referral letter to an endocrinologist stating that I was trans and in need of HRT.

[Xirafel]

Hi Xirafel, I am also in Australia. Originally, I went to my family GP and asked for a referral to a therapist with experience dealing with transgender patients. After a few months of seeing the therapist, she wrote a referral letter to an endocrinologist stating that I was trans and in need of HRT.

Do you have any idea how much that might cost?

I'd assume that the costs would include visiting the doctor, convincing the therapist for a few months that I'm not delusional, sessions with an endocrinologist (I have no clue what that is) and presumably the pills (I'm picturing $100/month or so in my head for the pills).

I'm not even going to try guessing the costs of the others as my imagination is extremely pessimistic.
Also, I noticed these threads have tags. Does anyone use the tag system? Should I add some tags?

[Deborah]

This was my cost in the USA.  This was without insurance coverage.  Insurance lowers the cost a lot.

Three psychologist visits, $160 each.

Cost for the psychologist to write the HRT letter. Another $160.

First Dr visit with blood tests, $430.

HRT cost per month, $150.  This might be less depending on the prescription.

[Asheylov]

Hi Xirafel

i also live in (Melbourne)  Australia, I just started HRT, but i'm the same boat as you i'm 22 nearly 23 but i understand about your parents and the situation you are in.

I'm exactly the same .  so if you want to talk please let me know.

[Violets]

Do you have any idea how much that might cost?

We are fortunate to have a reasonably affordable healthcare system in Australia, so hopefully the costs for you won't be prohibitive.

If you're lucky, your GP (aka doctor) will bulk bill, so the cost there would be $0.

I saw a psychiatrist, so that was quite expensive @ about $85 per half hour session (after the Medicare rebate). If you see a psychologist, you might be able to go cheaper if you've got private health insurance.

The endo costs were about the same as the psychiatrist.

HRT is listed on the PBS, so is cheap. Per month it costs me less than $15 in total for Spiro and Oestradiol.

Depending on where you are in Australia, you might be able to go to a clinic that specialises in trans care, and is a one-stop-shop for all the above services.

[Xirafel]

We are fortunate to have a reasonably affordable healthcare system in Australia, so hopefully the costs for you won't be prohibitive.

Depending on where you are in Australia, you might be able to go to a clinic that specialises in trans care, and is a one-stop-shop for all the above services.

I hope not, I'm not exactly made of money.
Depending on where I am... I would assume they would be present in the major cities, right?

Three psychologist visits, $160 each.

Cost for the psychologist to write the HRT letter. Another $160.

First Dr visit with blood tests, $430.

HRT cost per month, $150.  This might be less depending on the prescription.

How frequent are the doctor visits? Six months? A year? Same blood tests and cost every time?

Hi Xirafel

I also live in (Melbourne)  Australia, I just started HRT, but I'm the same boat as you I'm 22 nearly 23 but I understand about your parents and the situation you are in.

I'm exactly the same.  so if you want to talk please let me know.

Thank you, I might take you up on that.

I probably should post this segment in the Coming Out section rather than in here, as it has nothing to do with hormones. Back to dealing with my lovely mother.

Well, so much for seeing the spirits (even though it would be a waste of time), she fell asleep and forgot about it.
She acts as if nothing ever happened. I have a strong sinking suspicion she doesn't take it seriously in the slightest. What a pain. Ah, what a giant pain.

Alright, I'll stop consciously acting "normal" (which is really just actively stopping myself from doing anything that's excessively girl-like, my mind basically fights against itself) and see how girly I have to be to freak her out.

Actually, it probably wouldn't freak her out. Well, let's see how much it would take to make her take it seriously.
Cross-dressing just seems to amuse her at best and she basically doesn't care about that. That was actually her reaction to it the first time.

[Deborah]

How frequent are the doctor visits? Six months? A year? Same blood tests and cost every time?

After the first visit there is another in 60 to 90 days and then every six months after that.  Each visit consists of the same thing with blood test.  So the cost is the same.

[Violets]

Depending on where I am... I would assume they would be present in the major cities, right?

Yes, that is correct.

Also, I forgot to mention that all my blood tests so far have been bulk-billed, so there is no out-of-pocket cost.