Dating Problems For Transsexuals

[Sara]

Teri Anne, I have often thought I would date my own kind over gm or gg cause they can identify with me so much better than anyone else. I like that post from Kimberly cause that is exactly what happens, flies are attracted in large numbers by the simple word TS, these guys and sometimes girls are in it for game play, you are an object to them not a person with real feelings.

Sara.

[Cassandra]

Not all guys who are looking to date a TS woman are just looking for sex. One of our members(DennisInGa) seems like a very nice guy. He cared enough to come here and learn about TS from the source as it were before approaching a TS woman he liked. He wanted to start a relationship not a sexual escapade. If I were dating and if I were attracted to men I would definitley go out with him if he asked(knowing him as I know him from his post.

On the other hand, If he just walked up to me out of the blue I would be suspicious. But isn't that a problem for anyone in the dating scene? I know it is more of a problem for TS women, as you say Teri they are objectifying us and of course there in lyes the problem.

Speaking of Dennis were are you?

Cassie

[LostInTime]

Teri Anne,

Sorry that the reality did not play out well for you.  What I like is that there is such a wide variety of things people are into.  I also run into quite a few who had bad experiences.  As for variety, it keeps things interesting.    I am not into a lot of pain myself and prefer softer sensations and having my head messed with a bit.  The person whose training collar I wear is not overbearing at all and gives me plenty of room to do what I think I want.

Profiles.  Had a lot of T stuff in my yahoo profile and ended up with 50+ propositions within 3 months.  I rarely log onto YIM because of this.  I did remove most, if not all, T mentions.  The drawback to that is I have been contacted a couple of times by lesbian women who no longer want to pursue anything once I reveal that I am T (usually in the first email back to them).

[Teri Anne]

Lost -
Yes, me too.  I find that, even though gays and lesbians accept us into their GLBT groups, there is still resistence from lesbians that I'm a lesbian:

M2F dating a lesbian GG - her negative comment can be, "I'm not a hetero!"

Some lesbians have dated me for a few months only to drop me and look for someone else.  It makes me feel like I've been used...that they wanted to see what it was like to date a TS.  But maybe that's unfair...at least they gave me a shot.

Dating lesbians is also difficult at my age, 54.  I didn't grow up lesbian so don't readily recognize who is lesbian and who is hetero.  It's a mystery to me how older gays and lesbians are able to even find one another.  There must be a lot of mistakes along the way.  Sexual preference is a lot harder to distinguish...Life is so much easier, in that respect, in the hetero world.  For those of you that are beginning transition, please consider the difficulty of dating and finding a true love.  I know I did, before transition.  But it's a lot harder than I thought.  If finding a love is difficult as a hetero, it's twice or three times as hard as an older TS.  Some say I look pretty good...when you're TS, that sometimes doesn't matter.  I keep telling myself, "all it takes is ONE."

Teri Anne

[Dennis]

Teri Anne: I concur that finding love in the lesbian community, even as a GG is difficult, more so than in the straight community. Part of the reason seems to be that groups formed around being bi, gay, or lesbian, don't necessarily attract people with the same interests and values as yours. The only common factor is sexual orientation and while important, it's not enough to base a relationship on.

And knowing whether someone is a lesbian or not when you encounter her outside specific "community events" is a crapshoot.

Dunno how it's going to be for me, as a straight guy with different anatomy, but I guess I'll find out. From what I've heard, there's a lot more tolerance for that sort of difference among straight women than among lesbians, straight men, or gay men.

Dennis

[Teri Anne]

Dennis, you said, "Dunno how it's going to be for me, as a straight guy with different anatomy, but I guess I'll find out. From what I've heard, there's a lot more tolerance for that sort of difference among straight women than among lesbians, straight men, or gay men."

I wonder if that's because GG's, from childhood on, are ALLOWED to be "Tom-boyish" but GM's are considered, by many in society, to have a sexual fetish rather than actual transsexual feelings.  ie. we are suspect and you're considered more legitimate by society?  I wonder, if both genders wore similar clothing (like robes), whether we M2F's would be considered equally legitimate and less kinky?

I guess male/male homophobia comes into the equation also.  Parents don't worry about a girl hugging a girl but they dang well get their dander up if they see Bobby hugging Billy.

Teri Anne

[Dennis]

Still, it doesn't explain the lack of tolerance of lesbians vs. straight women for trans people for dating.

ie: from my experience and what I've heard, straight women are more likely to accept a trans man than lesbians are to accept a trans woman (as a potential partner I mean).

Dennis

[Valerie]

I've been wanting to take the time to post a semi-intelligent response to this thread for quite some time now. Unfortunately, I'm not worth my weight in dryer lint right now so this will be shorter and less detailed than I want to get.

... I find that, even though gays and lesbians accept us into their GLBT groups, there is still resistence from lesbians that I'm a lesbian:

M2F dating a lesbian GG - her negative comment can be, "I'm not a hetero!"

I think it's really pathetic that TS people are often seen as 'novelty items'.  Teri that guy you dated was just a plain moron, and I'm sorry you had to experience that.  Sara, too, with that guy spiking your drink and all...    

I see this sort of attitude/behaviour as though you have been treated as less than human... Think about it--- let's imagine foreigners from another planet came to Earth-- can you imagine what they would be subjected to?  And yet to a large degree, it's happening already with TS people and anyone else who is perceived as being 'other than'... It's disrespectful, inconsiderate, and demeaning--no one deserves to be used to satisfy someone's curiosity. 

I probably used a very poor analogy, so I apologize if I offended anyone, but I was NOT implying that anyone, save myself maybe, is from another planet...

Teri Anne, I'm sorry you haven't yet found a more accepting place within the lesbian community.  Personally, I'm attracted to both men and women, but I have had very little contact with the homosexual community at large-- for the very reason Dennis brought up--

groups formed around being bi, gay, or lesbian, don't necessarily attract people with the same interests and values as yours. The only common factor is sexual orientation and while important, it's not enough to base a relationship on.

In earlier years I tried attending social events with a gay/lesbian group, but quickly grew disenchanted with hanging out and 'being gay' with people...

Anyway I've always been kind of an oddball, so I don't suppose my personal view of things can help very much here, since they might not be representative of the 'norm'....still...

I'm a GG, and came to this site to learn and to understand.  In the very beginning, and this is a confession,  I feared that in my mind I might mentally refer to M2F people as 'he' or F2M people as 'she'...

Never happened-- Even while not knowing anything about TS-ism, my heart and mind from the beginning saw the people I encountered here as the gender with which they identify.  So it baffles me that lesbians would see you as anything but a woman...and Teri, judging from your photo, you don't seem to exude anything but a female spirit and appearance--you're also very pretty by the way, and don't look your age, either.  Which is not meant inappropriately, but maybe if people are finding things about you, it could be because they're looking for things to find? 

Maybe an opinion from a bi-girl isn't as qualified as from a 'real' lesbian...but I contest that when i am attracted to a woman, I'm attracted to a woman, and when to a man, to a man...

Teri, you said:

Some lesbians have dated me for a few months only to drop me and look for someone else.  It makes me feel like I've been used...that they wanted to see what it was like to date a TS.  But maybe that's unfair...at least they gave me a shot.

I don't know, this bothers me.  I don't know that I can see this as them having given you a shot...I mean, what would distinguish them from that guy with the TS porn?  Or maybe they did give you an honest chance, not out of curiousity but true interest in you, and they discovered as time passed that they just couldn't reconcile within themselves the fact that you were TS...(?)  Still, I don't blame you a bit for feeling used--you deserve so much better...

I was asking myself if someone looking to specifically date TS people are any different than people who want to date outside their race or religion...  I mean you see in the papers all the time, 'Single Black male seeking Single White Female'.... I mean, maybe that's too generalized because most personal ads I see are driven by lust, not relationship. 

But in my own life, I have an affinity for certain ethnicities...I love foreigners, as people, and friends and really don't know why.  I've never sought out a foreing-born person for dating (well, to be honest I am not in the dating scene)....but I can see where I could become easily attracted to one.  Or how some lesbians prefer to date 'butch' lesbains rather than 'lipstick' lesbians... maybe there are some, who might simply have an affinity for TS people?  But I don't think you've encountered them yet (?)

I know that since joining Susan's I am endeared to the TS community as a friend...  I would not specifically seek out a TS man or woman for romance, any more than I would someone of a certain ethnicity...but since my heart has a propensity towards certain groups, the potential is there to have more friends from certain populations, and if the circumstances were right, I would not prevent myself from dating or falling for someone who is or was TS. 

Well now I don't even remember what my whole point was...I guess, Teri, if I can offer these reflections, maybe the others aren't too far from finding you...

Sorry if I rambled or didn't make much sense here, I'm tired today.... 

XO,
Valerie

[Leigh]

  there is still resistence from lesbians that I'm a lesbian:

Change that to some lesbians and I'll agree with you.  My experince has, with two exceptions, been more than positive.  Once while I was at a table with some friends a comment was made by a woman at another table that I shouldn't be there.  There wasn't enough left of that woman when my friends finished ripping her to shreds to make a hamburger.

Some lesbians have dated me for a few months only to drop me and look for someone else.

Welcome to lesbian life.  This is why there is the joke about what a lesbian drives on the second date--a u haul.    

Dating lesbians is also difficult at my age, 54.

No offense Teri Anne but you are just a kid and thats all I'm saying on that subject.  Age is mind over matter-if they don't mind it don't matter.  The closest to my age was still 14 years younger and most are in their 30's.  The older generation certainly have different views than those who grew up with the Goth/Punk/alternative life.  They tend to be more open to everyone--at least that is my opinion.

  I didn't grow up lesbian so don't readily recognize who is lesbian and who is hetero.  It's a mystery to me how older gays and lesbians are able to even find one another. 

Maybe Teri Anne was born without the Gaydar gene but I wasn't 

Edit to correct another error I have made.

Leigh

[Cassandra]

Unfortunately, I'm not worth my weight in dryer lint right now so this will be shorter and less detailed than I want to get.

Gee Valerie, if that's a shorter less detailed post we're going to need a whole forum just for you when you really get going. 

Me I'm just glad I don't have to deal with the dating scene at all. With what everyone seems to be going thru from the posts on this topic it sounds like a nightmare ala cart. I thank my lucky stars every day and night for my spouse. If anything happened to her I'd be lost. I just don't think I could ever get into dating. I'd probably just maintain a close cadre of friends.

Cassie

[Dennis]

Maybe Dennis was born without the Gaydar gene but I wasn't 

That was Teri-Anne you quoted with that. I can tell who's homo. Spent enough time in that community. I still think I pick out some pre-homo's when I make what looks like a mistake.

Dennis

[Danielegrl]

Hello all and hi leigh from portland

Personally i never was attracted to men and beards a etc etc etc.. so goes that.... Before I transitioned I thought i would end up with a GG lesbian. After transitioning i found i liked me and well i thought i could fall for another like me. I was post op before i ever went to a TS support group. When i did go i found most wanted more than i was willing to give. I basically am a monogomous womyn who doesn't sleep around to find out if someone is for me or not. Too much pain in that. (I suffered that pain before i ever transitioned.) I eventually got involved with helping the Transgender community doing some political work. I also got involved in safe housing. I thought that somewhere along the line i might find a soulmate. I never did. I then traveled the USA in a RV going to many places and many fantasy fest and GBLT pride events. I found the same thing about most lesbians only want to use me to experiement so i never took them up. I stayed celibate but i did get wild in dress and went to many nudist beaches etc. I found that these places were mostly places for newcomers to get hit on by those who never outgrew picking up newcomers. I basically got depressed and stopped going to such events. I finally stayed away from all TS/TG/GBLT events and now i am just living my life helping people. I work as a caregiver (which has been over a year and a half and has provided me a future in this upcoming career). I also do gardening and land development on the 82 yr old womans property. I help two young guys who are both ex minimum security parolees. (DUI and pot charges) They are both doing well. One better than the other. They do work on the property for their rent. I previously use to run recovery homes for 13 years before i ever transitioned so i know how to deal with these kinds of people.

As for a relationship i have basically turned that over to above/God/higher power. Oh if i see someone with a potential for a true love relationship i might send them a email. (which i have done recently but no answer back yet ) I do seek another like myself. Someone from 35 to 60. Someone who has resolved their transitioning and exploration stages of their sexuality. Someone who has some basic job or ability to support themselves. I don't want to have to explain my past to a soulmate. I just want to be able to live life. I do like the PNW because it provides a slower paced lifestyle. There are many trees for shade in the summer. I am not into snow. I love gardening. I like doing eldercare. I guess thats me in a nutshell

edited to change passed to paced lol silly me

[Teri Anne]

Hi everyone!

Valerie - Thank you for your kind words regarding my appearance and for agreeing that the guy who dumped me was a schmuck.  Frankly, sometimes I think the Martians might get a kinder reception.  I think the biggest problem in dating and in acceptance we face is society's stereotype that TS's are mentally disturbed.  It probably doesn't help that the medical community thinks the same thing -- why else would they list us in their mental disorder books?  Gays were fortunate enought to be freed from that "mental" prison.  Regarding people who date me:  I'd trust someone a lot more if they dated a variety of people rather than exclusively TS's (like that schmuck).

Leigh - I agree that it's SOME lesbians that don't accept me -- definitely not all.  After I was post op, I had two wonderful romances wherein two lesbians (one at a time!) fell in love with me and I was deeply in love with them.  I was incredibly happy about the possibilities.  In one case, it was a woman from the Philippines who had a beautiful poetic voice.  When the clouds were just above the mountains she commented, "the clouds are kissing the mountain tops."  She loved nature and we had one wonderful day just sitting on a hill, watching birds glide and waves roll into the shore.  She squeezed my thigh once saying, "You feel just like a woman."  She ended up dumping me and going back to her previous lover.  The other lesbian who loved me was madly in love with me one week, and then critical the next.  This went on a few weeks until she and I both got worn out from the process.  The reasons she gave for leaving me made no sense to my ex who defended me, "You're kind.  Don't pay attention to her."  Leigh, I was going to mention that I didn't have "gaydar" but didn't know if the term was appropriate for lesbians (shouldn't that be lesbar?).  Whatever it's called, my gaydar is pretty weak.

Cassie - You're right.  Dating can be as exciting as looking for work.  You're fortunate to have a loving spouse.  I don't know if things ever could have worked out with my ex (21 years together).  It would have required her to stop picking on me on an every other day basis about being TS.  She's married now so I guess my ponderings are academic.  One reason I was soooo happy when I fell in love with the two lesbians (above) is that it would make it possible for me to STOP dating.  That would have been nice.

Danielle - The RV'ing across the U.S. sounds fun.  I hope to do that someday.  It's interesting that you dropped going to GLBT things.  I guess that's the one place, given my bad gaydar, that I might stand SOME chance of finding a lesbian.  My problem, locally, is that the GLBT place in L.A. seems to be full of younger lesbians.  I generally prefer people my age -- I generally have no interest in young people's music or culture.  For me, there isn't any better music than from the 40's thru 70's.  Music had this thing called "melodies."  Being you found God, I suppose the church might be a place for you to find someone.  That's not for me, though.

Dennis - You're right - searching for someone in a GLBT group or TS group would be difficult given that someone with my interests might not be in such a group.  For instance, I'm interested in architecture but I was the only one who checked "architecture" on the Susan's Place "hobbies" poll.

My ex, before we split up, said, "why would you want to become a woman at your age?  I can understand if you're young, but now?"  She firmly believed the saying that people over 55 have more of a chance of getting hit by lightening than finding their soulmate.  The strange thing is, she DID find someone.

Just the same, I'm not walking around in empty fields while there's lightening going on.

Teri Anne

[Leigh]

back to her previous lover.  The other lesbian who loved me was madly in love with me one week, and then critical the next.  This went on a few weeks until she and I both got worn out from the process.  

This is why using lesbian therapist is redundant.  You don't have one without the other.

Leigh, I was going to mention that I didn't have "gaydar" but didn't know if the term was appropriate for lesbians (shouldn't that be lesbar?).  Whatever it's called, my gaydar is pretty weak.

If it was only tuned to that one frequency it would be.  The ability to blip other "family" members is gaydar.  Those who identify as bi seem to have some kind of stealth device rendering the dar ineffective.

Leigh

[Valerie]

If it was only tuned to that one frequency it would be.  The ability to blip other "family" members is gaydar.  Those who identify as bi seem to have some kind of stealth device rendering the dar ineffective.

Yeah, my gaydar (and lesdar! Cute one, Teri) is fine, but my bidar doesn't seem to be operational.   

In one case, it was a woman from the Philippines who had a beautiful poetic voice.  When the clouds were just above the mountains she commented, "the clouds are kissing the mountain tops."  She loved nature and we had one wonderful day just sitting on a hill, watching birds glide and waves roll into the shore.

Teri, you had me captivated with this-- *sigh* .... How wonderful....

Valerie

[Danielegrl]

Terri anne i didn't find God. I realized that i have spiritual guides that are above. They can be called God but it has nothing to do with religions.. I don't go to churches.. You won't catch me sitting in a phewwwwwwwwww .. i rather just help somebody like Jesus did.. jesus was a rebel against the religous leaders of his time.. Thats why they crucified him..

and just because i choose to only date TS doesn't make me a shmuck... sheeesh ... it just happens to be a preference..

That guy who only dates TS's is ok by me ......but if he is the kind that jumps from one to the next etc etc etc then that is what makes him a shmuck..

[Valerie]

and just because i choose to only date TS doesn't make me a shmuck... sheeesh ... it just happens to be a preference..

Danielle, I don't think Teri was including you among the schmucks....you have valid reasons for choosing to date only TS people-- you've been there, and TS people are not a novelty or circus side show to you. 

I'm not saying that all GM or GG who exclusively court TS people see them as novelty items or as objects, but if they choose to only date TS, it can be difficult to determine whether or not they have a pure motive. 

Valerie

[LostInTime]

Yeah, my gaydar (and lesdar! Cute one, Teri) is fine, but my bidar doesn't seem to be operational.   

Mine either.  I was out for dinner with two friends, one male and the other female and they are a couple.  Her guy did not pick up on what she was saying and I commented that all of that testosterone makes one a big thick in the head at times.  We both laughed.  He came back to the table and then proceeded to show me how something coordinated with his pants.  To which I commented to her something like perhaps he did not have as much testosterone as I thought.    Then she told me that he is bi.  LOL.  He was a good sport about the whole thing and I am the best of friends with them now.

[Sara]

Not forgetting of course the functionality of some pre ops and their desire to even want sexual relationships and or emotional ties with males or females or other, this can have an effect on dating too.

Sara.

[Teri Anne]

Hmm, the insert post page has the following comment:  "Warning: topic is currently/will be locked!  Only admins and moderators can reply."

Well, on the chance that this post will take, let me just thank you all for your insights and experiences.  Valerie, thank you for the kind words.  And to you others, I guess my "bidar" doesn't work very well either -- that's strange, considering I was "bi" for about four months in 2000.  You'd think a bi could recognize a bi.  Well, many times I can't tell TS's either.  My TSdar is kafunk.

In case the page is locked, may I just wish you all good times and good luck in dating new people.  It can be a struggle but I think the effort is definitely worth it.

Teri Anne