VFS with haben, 2 weeks post-op

[wilechile]

HI!!!
i'm 2 weeks post-op with dr haben and i'm SO worried constantly.

first of all, i cough constantly (well not so much anymore but definitely within the first week i coughed so much even with the codeine syrup, which I DEFINITELY ENJOYED (the syrup i mean)!!!  )

second, i've accidentally called out in response to my mom or family member calling to me and the one or two times i've done this NO SOUND came out.

so as of now, not only am i supposed to not use my voice, i literally CANNOT use it.

is this normal? should i be worried?

[Dena]

Welcome to Susan's Place. Relax and don't worry at this point. The sutures can take a fair amount of abuse without failing so a few accidents will not affect the outcome.

As for nothing coming out at two weeks, yes that happens. In my case there was so much swelling in the cords that I wasn't able to get any noise out until after two weeks and then it sounded pretty bad. The best advice is to continue not using your voice and cough as little a possible. You may test your voce for a few seconds but if it fails, continue to rest it. I would test mine once a day and when it didn't work, back to silent mode.  Ibuprofen as per Dr Haben's instruction will act like the steroids given to you after surgery and may help control the swelling.

As for the coughing, the best solution I found was to keep ice water in a container with a soda straw. Every few minutes as needed take a small amount in your mouth and warm it a bit until cool then swallow it. The constant cooling worked so well with me that I only used one dosage of cough medicine  before my flight home and none after that.

In some people the swelling goes down pretty fast. In my case I was pretty sure mine would last longer. One girl had it last over a month. At this point, just relax and take it easy. Should you have any questions for Dr Haben, he responds pretty quickly to email questions.

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[wilechile]

Thank you Dena!

it's interesting you mentioned the ice water because Dr. Haben actually instructed me to drink warm-hot water with honey.

I definitely was under the impression that the heat would help with the healing but I'll definitely try drinking cooler water from now on.

[GeekGirl]

HI!!!
i'm 2 weeks post-op with dr haben and i'm SO worried constantly.

first of all, i cough constantly (well not so much anymore but definitely within the first week i coughed so much even with the codeine syrup, which I DEFINITELY ENJOYED (the syrup i mean)!!!  )

second, i've accidentally called out in response to my mom or family member calling to me and the one or two times i've done this NO SOUND came out.

so as of now, not only am i supposed to not use my voice, i literally CANNOT use it.

is this normal? should i be worried?

It is normal and your body will basically dictate when you can speak again. Dr. Haben recommended that I not speak for one month, which I was totally unprepared for, but I did it. I had to learn a new way of communicating with sign language, a notepad, and a text to speech app on my phone/computer.

I, too, accidentally spoke words and sometimes words would come out and other times not. It's all part of the learning process. Just try to keep as silent as possible during your recommended vocal rest period. But be prepared for the long haul as your voice will improve in very tiny baby steps over time. After 2+ months, I still sound raspy and my voice is weak in person. Over the phone, it's a little better because phones seem to automatically amplify sounds.

[wilechile]

It is normal and your body will basically dictate when you can speak again. Dr. Haben recommended that I not speak for one month, which I was totally unprepared for, but I did it. I had to learn a new way of communicating with sign language, a notepad, and a text to speech app on my phone/computer.

I, too, accidentally spoke words and sometimes words would come out and other times not. It's all part of the learning process. Just try to keep as silent as possible during your recommended vocal rest period. But be prepared for the long haul as your voice will improve in very tiny baby steps over time. After 2+ months, I still sound raspy and my voice is weak in person. Over the phone, it's a little better because phones seem to automatically amplify sounds.

Oh wow! Thank you for sharing.

Have you noticed a definite raise in pitch? I was actually hoping the surgery could also improve like the power and resonance in my voice but I guess the recovery time will be a lot longer than I expected, so we'll see.

I knew that I'd have to rest my voice for a month but it's proving a lot more difficult that I had imagined.
When would you say that you were able to produce sound without major effort?

[Dena]

Recovery varies greatly I have heard good voices in as little as 6 weeks. My 3 month voice is on Dr Haben's site as the 64 year old post op. At 7 months, the ability to project really started improving and at about a year and 2 months, I know the voice still isn't 100%  but it's pretty  good. As I have to us my  trained  voice to hit the proper pitch, I did notice an improvement of about 50 HZ in my  chest voice after surgery. My head voice bumped about 80 Hz. Both of these numbers are comfortable speaking ranges. What was unexpected is my  upper pitch, the highest I could go went from about 180 Hz to around 700 Hz. This is something that isn't supposed to happen but it did.

[wilechile]

Recovery varies greatly I have heard good voices in as little as 6 weeks. My 3 month voice is on Dr Haben's site as the 64 year old post op. At 7 months, the ability to project really started improving and at about a year and 2 months, I know the voice still isn't 100%  but it's pretty  good. As I have to us my  trained  voice to hit the proper pitch, I did notice an improvement of about 50 HZ in my  chest voice after surgery. My head voice bumped about 80 Hz. Both of these numbers are comfortable speaking ranges. What was unexpected is my  upper pitch, the highest I could go went from about 180 Hz to around 700 Hz. This is something that isn't supposed to happen but it did.

!!!!!!!!! 700 Hz? wow, i'm assuming thats when you are belting, yelling or just projecting right?

i'm glad that you've been healing!!

[Dena]

700 is the upper limit. Belting is far lower as it's the point in a voice where the projection is the strongest. I am not a singer but I would guess my belting frequency would be around 220 Hz has that's where I can make the most noise with the least effort. As for yelling. I have never been comfortable doing that in my head voice. It never had the punch that the male voice had so I avoid putting myself in a place where I need to yell.

[wilechile]

700 is the upper limit. Belting is far lower as it's the point in a voice where the projection is the strongest. I am not a singer but I would guess my belting frequency would be around 220 Hz has that's where I can make the most noise with the least effort. As for yelling. I have never been comfortable doing that in my head voice. It never had the punch that the male voice had so I avoid putting myself in a place where I need to yell.

Oh okay. So how do you test for that? Like how did you come to know that you're limit was at 700 Hz?

Sorry! I don't really understand the science behind sound - I'm more used to like musical terminology, lmao. So the hertz unit does not make sense to me at allll haha.

[Dena]

If you are into music then you know how to check it against a musical instrument. If not like me, I used PitchLab on my  phone for quick checks. You can use PRAAT on your computer for a more detail analysis. There is a CHART in the voice section that will allow you to translate back and forth and just for good measure, there is another Web Page with useful information.

[wilechile]

If you are into music then you know how to check it against a musical instrument. If not like me, I used PitchLab on my  phone for quick checks. You can use PRAAT on your computer for a more detail analysis. There is a CHART in the voice section that will allow you to translate back and forth and just for good measure, there is another Web Page with useful information.

Oooh thanks for the resources!

What I meant though was like you wrote that your upper limit was 700 Hz - I'm asking how did you reach that frequency? Because you also wrote that you don't yell or anything. So I guess my question is when you checked your vocal frequency and got 700 Hz, what were you doing? Talking, shouting, belting, in falsetto, etc?

[Dena]

Start with an EEEEEEEE at normal volume and frequency and just keep going up. I am keeping it in the head voice as I haven't worked out how to use the falsetto or whistler after surgery. The don't seem to be as accessible as before and I don't really need them.

[wilechile]

Lol I feel like every other day I need reassurance about this surgery just because I am constantly coughing and I also just whispered a bunch today (accidentally).

Like everyday I'm concerned that the stitches have come out or something it's so tough to get through. Probably one of the hardest recoveries there is just because there's no way to KNOW. Does anybody know any way that you can tell if your stitches have come out or something's gone wrong without the use of a stethoscope?

As of now I still can't produce any sound

[Dena]

My sutures came out at about 5 weeks because I had a bit of thread that came up. Other than that, it's a waiting game though the fact that you can't talk yet may indicate the sutures are still in place. As I said before, a month before talking is not unheard of.

[CollieLass]

Does anybody know any way that you can tell if your stitches have come out or something's gone wrong without the use of a stethoscope?

As of now I still can't produce any sound

I had endoscopic VFS {with a different surgeon from yours} on Sept. 2nd. and due to intra-operative compression neuropraxia and from post-operative swelling and edema, I still have no voice; which is resultant from a stiff and insensible larynx.
I coughed considerably following surgery, due to copious secretions resultant from the edema.
It is not uncommon for this to happen, and at the time of my 1st. post operative consultation last week; my surgeon, reminded me, that recovery of one`s speaking abilities following VFS, can take a considerable period of time........He said everything looked perfectly normal, when viewed through his Fibroscope and just to be patient, and he also prescribed NSAID medication, to further reduce the inflammation. 

Our surgical circumstances and surgeons are different; but perhaps you might take a little comfort in the timescale of the foregoing.......and perhaps additionally, making a quick ph. call to Dr. Haben; outlining your concerns, might prove to be of reassurance.

[wilechile]

Thanks guys! That definitely made me feel better. I think I'm going to try some NSAID medication too. My family has some ibuprofen lying around, you think that'll suffice?

[Dena]

From Dr Haben's site

What is granulation tissue? What does it mean for my healing?
A; Approximately 10% of all patients will develop some sort of what is called "granulation tissue" over the web. This is generally a reaction to the surgery and stitches in the throat. In almost all patients it will resolve without needing to do anything, however the occasional patient will need to have something done. Granulation tissue slows down the healing process quite a bit, but does not harm the final results. Be patient, granulation tissue could take 6 months to go away. Sometimes the silent reflux medication, additional steroids or even ibuprofen is recommended.

Steroids were given to you in the hospital and after you left to help control the swelling. Ibuprofen is an anti inflammatory that will reduce pain and can help reduce swelling. Another member of this site came up with the idea to use ibuprofen and I passed it on to Dr Haben when I was discussing my three month voice sample. He added it to his site after that.

[GeekGirl]

Oh wow! Thank you for sharing.

Have you noticed a definite raise in pitch? I was actually hoping the surgery could also improve like the power and resonance in my voice but I guess the recovery time will be a lot longer than I expected, so we'll see.

I knew that I'd have to rest my voice for a month but it's proving a lot more difficult that I had imagined.
When would you say that you were able to produce sound without major effort?

There is a raise in pitch, basically to the point where I had to put in a lot of effort before to get it to the new pitch I'm speaking at now. So the way I see this surgery is it's one less thing to worry about when I'm speaking. I still sound like me, just a higher-pitched me, and I find at times that perhaps subliminally I'm trying to speak at the pitch I was at before (that is, the pitch I was at without consciously pitching up). This ends up making my voice sound androgynous, so I have to remind myself that I'm capable of speaking at a higher pitch. It's like there's this readjustment that's going on in my brain and I have to retrain my musical instrument to play at the new range.

A couple of weeks ago I started practicing singing. I had this really nice mellow voice before (but it was a man's singing voice) that's pretty shot now. I suspect I won't be able to sing well for many more months, even years. That's okay, because I'm committed to working with what I've got. Rome was not built in a day or a week or a year. I'm just glad it actually did something this time around (this was my VFS #2 with Dr. Haben, since my first one failed).

[wilechile]

hey yall!!! so today is like the 6 week post op mark for me and i've been able to speak and produce sound now! it's still super breathy, raspy, etc but i feel like i'm making progress every day.

one thing i've noticed is that my speaking voice sounds like what my head voice used to sound like. kind of a falsetto. at first i assumed that because i was still early in recovery, i was only able to go into falsetto. however, i'm starting to think that that's just what my new chest voice will sound like.

[Wynternight]

700 Hz? What can hear you besides bats and dogs!