People's experience with progesterone.

[naa]

I've heard lots of varying things about people's experience with progesterone.  Some saying it helped breast growth, other sources saying its useless.  Some people say it had a positive mental effect, others saying it had a negative effect.

Has anyone here taken progesterone, and what difference do you think it made for you?

[Rachel]

I started prometrium 1 year into HRT. I think it helped even out my emotions or I l was learning to better control my emotions. I have a full A cup but I think that has a lot to do with age and genetics. My PA-c said it will fill out my breasts and they have filled out but they are an A cup.

[SadieBlake]

9 months into HRT I added micronized progesterone. It has restored enough libido for me to be happier and I may be a bit more moody but for now I'm going to say that's an ok trade off.

[anjaq]

It took 15 years for me to get micronized Progesterone in addition to E. By then I was suffering from various deficiency symptoms like depression, weight gain, bad skin, high blood pressure, ...
It helped me with all these symptoms, in addition it made me emotionally more grounded and happier, I felt more attractive. It helped change my body to be more feminine - more body shape changes like butt, hips, waistline. I started to grow more pubic hair again and had some regrowth on the temples. I gained breast volume, but interestingly not much in terms of circumference. The numbers said I did not gain breast size , but I had to buy new bras. So it changed the volume and shape of the breasts, but not the number ou get by putting a measuring tape around you. It also changed the muscles and fat in my face to be more feminine again.

[Beth Andrea]

For me, there is a visible difference in my breasts when I use progesterone. There is also a felt difference, they feel...more firm.

I use a progesterone cream applied twice daily as per instructions. My blood work has always been normal, on or off. Given this, I prefer to use it in addition to oral E.

[Mohini]

It took 15 years for me to get micronized Progesterone in addition to E. By then I was suffering from various deficiency symptoms like depression, weight gain, bad skin, high blood pressure, ...
It helped me with all these symptoms, in addition it made me emotionally more grounded and happier, I felt more attractive. It helped change my body to be more feminine - more body shape changes like butt, hips, waistline.

Hi Anjaq:

Are you saying that the deficiency symptoms apparently came from a deficiency in progesterone?  And the progesterone helped you to get a more feminine figure?

I am asking these questions to make sure I understand EXACTLY what you are saying, and also tonight, I take my first dose of micronized progesterone for the first time (in comparison, I've been on estradiol for 18 years, just starting cycling estradiol 2.5 cycles ago, and tonight starting to cycle the progesterone per the menstrual chart or Wiley Protocol (to an extent)).

I have had an amazing response just from cycling the estradiol alone, and I now I wait to see for the rest of the year what cycling progesterone does for me.  I'm my doctor's first patient to do this regimen.

May I ask what to expect in the coming days of being on progesterone?  Thank you...

[RobynD]

Six months since i added prometrium and loving it. My breasts are definitely fuller and rounder. It helps sleep and overall i would say my emotional effects have been slight, but a bit more calm. Estrogen's effects were so good for me, i hesitate to chalk up the emotional changes due to the prometrium. Definitely glad i have added it.

[anjaq]

Are you saying that the deficiency symptoms apparently came from a deficiency in progesterone?  And the progesterone helped you to get a more feminine figure?

I am asking these questions to make sure I understand EXACTLY what you are saying, and also tonight, I take my first dose of micronized progesterone for the first time (in comparison, I've been on estradiol for 18 years, just starting cycling estradiol 2.5 cycles ago, and tonight starting to cycle the progesterone per the menstrual chart or Wiley Protocol (to an extent)).

I have had an amazing response just from cycling the estradiol alone

I believe a lot of the symptoms I had previously were from progesterone deficiency. Some also may have originated in the long term use of oral estradiol - I switched to transdermal estrogen some months before I added Progesterone. I definitely had psychological improvement and also the belly cramps were much less frequently. I know for sure it helped my breast development even at this late stage. My body shapes are different, although I combined it with loosing weight, something I never managed before either. I lost weight at the good spots, improving my waist to hip ratio. I also used progesterone Gel at the temples and have gotten regrowth there. I do not want to leave out the downside - the hair at the pubic area and the legs are growing faster and a bit thicker now again - still not without female bounds, but not as thin as during times of deficiency.

I too my prescribed dosage of micronized progesterone sublingually, by the way.

I am interested in something as well - in what way did cyclical estradiol help you and in what general sense do you create a cycle (not mentioning dosages, but just way of application, please)? I am considering cycling my hormones, I tried it a bit but saw not much of a difference, except when I stop progesterone completely, I am getting PMS. Thank you

[Mohini]

Hi Anjaq.

You vary both the estrogen and the progesterone amounts per a menstrual cycle chart and notice how the two go together or not go together throughout the 28-day cycle.  You may have to experiment per blood work to see what the ratio between your base line level and your primary peak level should be, then your base line and your secondary peak should be.  The wider the variance between the base line and the peak levels, the stronger the results might be, to a point.

[Sydney_NYC]

I have been on HRT for almost 3 years (34 months) now and up until this past May at 29 months of HRT did I add Progesterone cream and I barely had a B cup. I did get a slight increase in fullness, but no real changes. About a month ago my doctor added micronized Progesterone to my HRT routine and they are growing again at a faster rate that I've ever experienced since starting HRT. I'm starting to get into the C cup area and they feel a lot fuller. I'm experiencing the addition sensitivity, itching and aching that I haven't felt with nearly this intensity in almost 2 years ago when estrogen alone was creating some growth. So there certainly is (at least to me) something happening due to the progesterone.

[anjaq]

Hi Anjaq.

You vary both the estrogen and the progesterone amounts per a menstrual cycle chart and notice how the two go together or not go together throughout the 28-day cycle.  You may have to experiment per blood work to see what the ratio between your base line level and your primary peak level should be, then your base line and your secondary peak should be.  The wider the variance between the base line and the peak levels, the stronger the results might be, to a point.

Well, I have devised some ways to cycle my transdermal hormones and the progesterone - I could do this, but my question was what is the reason behind doing it. It seems "natural" somehow, because its what other women also have - but I would still want to know, what effect does it have? Certainly mood swings, but are there some clearly positive effects, any physical effects on the body or health? Its complex to ccle hormones, so it makes sense only if there is something to gain from it

[Mohini]

Well, I have devised some ways to cycle my transdermal hormones and the progesterone - I could do this, but my question was what is the reason behind doing it. It seems "natural" somehow, because its what other women also have - but I would still want to know, what effect does it have?

This is a GREAT question, and it may open up a deeper understanding of the body.  I have mentioned elsewhere, somewhere in this forum the reason for cycling, so it's worth repeating here.

The body becomes desensitized over time to inputs, so the body needs help in the form of breaks from exposure to input, so that it retains as much of the initial sensitivity to fresh input over its life.  In essence, the body builds feminization in layers or stages over the growing stage of life.  Otherwise, to not preserve the initial sensitivity through constant dosing can lead to one maxing out earlier in the process than should be the case under a cycling regimen.  This is why the estrogen level in the cycles are not very high most of the time, at a high peak over 2-3 days and at a secondary high over another 6 days, maybe, out of the 28 days of a cycle, for example.  I found myself in this position, so I would taper off the dosage down to the base line level for the first week, and then start the upward curve to the primary peak in the second week, and then I'm tied into the cycle pattern.

It's like coffee and sodas.  Have it once in a while, and you feel the zing, but have it all the time, and you probably can drink coffee to HELP you sleep.  That usually happens with any other drug, where it no longer has the same effect as it did in the beginning.  The resting or base line period allows the hormone receptors to rest and clear out, I guess, and return to its previous resting state.  Everything in this Universe works in cycles, from the sun going supernova to the weather cycles over millions of years, each year, month, and day.  Even inanimate matter has cycles within electron and sub-atomic movement.  Nothing in this material world is static, stationary, unmoving.  That goes for human bodies and living bodies, too.

[anjaq]

Well - this doe snot really answer my question, which was WHAT is the efect - what do you actually see as a difference after 18 years of HRT since you changed to cycling - what happened - you probably get mood swings and amotional ups and downs from cycling - maybe you feel more or less attracted to men during differnt days? But what happened - did you experience breast growth, changes in body shape, wider hips, better hair ,.. ?

I read a lot about cycling hormones and usually the main argument to do it is "because it is natural" and "because cis women have it too" or maybe even "nature works in cycles". Well, for men its not like that for example. They have Testosterone - it is going up in puberty and then declining until they get a midlife crisis, lol - there are some daily variations or peaks when they have sex - but its not a monthly cycle. So obviously the male body still reacty very much on testosterone despite this - there seems to be a stage where the effect is balanced, where there is enough hormone present to do something in the body, but not as much as to diminish the bodys ability to react to it. Like - if I drink just one coffe daily, it probably still will have an effect even after months - unlike if I drink 5 coffes a day or more - then of course I need 5 coffees. If I dring 5 coffees for 2 weeks, I would initially have a big effect of them, but it would fade out and if I drink only 1 coffee a day in the two weeks after that, I would almost fall asleep during the first of those weeks. So in that case I have maybe one week of increased caffeeine effect but another week where it has the negative effect. Maybe this would cancel itself out in a way if we are speaking of hormone effects?
Its a very simple logic now, so its probably not like that in reality.

In any case, since there are no studies about how this actually works, all I can rely on is personal experiences, which is why I ask "what did you feel, what changes did you see in the body that were not there during extended single-dosage HRT?"

[Mohini]

Well - this doe snot really answer my question, which was WHAT is the efect - what do you actually see as a difference after 18 years of HRT since you changed to cycling - what happened - you probably get mood swings and amotional ups and downs from cycling - maybe you feel more or less attracted to men during differnt days? But what happened - did you experience breast growth, changes in body shape, wider hips, better hair ,.. ?

Well, let's see...

I started to see my hands softening up for a few days randomly, and then get rough during the cycle troughs, and now, in the third cycle since I started, I'm seeing my hands maintain most of the softness in between the primary and secondary peaks.

Lips appear to be smoothening, starting in the third cycle.  I don't know if this is from the estradiol, or if it's because I inserted progesterone into the cycle schedule two nights ago.

Hair started to regrow and stop thinning so much during the second cycle.  This started to happen before I got progesterone going.

Breasts itch coming out of the interim dip days 17-20.  I had this happen in the last cycle.  I have to see if it does it again this week.  Breasts itch and momentarily harden during the secondary peak days (19-23).  Itching appears to lessen around day 25, though still sensitive.

Sex drive heightens during secondary peak.  During progesterone part of the cycle, orgasms become more intense.

Cycling the estradiol only (no progesterone taken to this point) does not seem to alter my sexual orientation.  I still want women.  I'm confident about this because I'm honest with myself about what I prefer or don't prefer in a partner.

I need more time on progesterone and more cycles to determine what all will happen, but it is positive for me.

[anjaq]

Ok, thanks , this is interesting to hear. I guess since you added progesterone now, probably for the first time in years, some of the changes you will see can come from this. I know that I changed a lot just from adding P without cycling it. The dosages are a bit of a puzzle though - With cycling, you probably hit the best doages at some point inevitably - I am not sure if it is not possible to also just stick to that dosage where it works best - where the lips are fullest and the hands are softest and just keep it there?

[Mohini]

Ok, thanks , this is interesting to hear. I guess since you added progesterone now, probably for the first time in years, some of the changes you will see can come from this. I know that I changed a lot just from adding P without cycling it. The dosages are a bit of a puzzle though - With cycling, you probably hit the best doages at some point inevitably - I am not sure if it is not possible to also just stick to that dosage where it works best - where the lips are fullest and the hands are softest and just keep it there?

Actually, it is the first time I've added micronized progesterone, period.  MPA is what I used about 15 years ago, and I didn't like how it was affecting me.

The reason it doesn't work to stick with the dosage that "apparently" brings out the "best" result of a given time-frame is because eventually, you may have hormone resistance.  I even had regression even on a post-orchie dosage.  I guess you could say that the hormone receptor system was tired after years of a constant dosage.  You will get some effect, but you won't get the "spurring on" of development to its maximum potential that you get on the upswings of each cycle.  The development of a young woman comes from the layered, periodic growth spurts.  It's like building a sand pile.  You add to it a little at a time.  It doesn't come in one big 8-year surge.  Also, the depth of strength of exposure has a big impact, I think.  This refers to the difference between your base line reading and the highest reading in a cycle.  The brief peaks in a cycle can sensitize your receptors to be more sensitive than they would be if they were exposed to it all the time at the same level.

[anjaq]

Well - the regular dosage given after removal of the testes in GRS or Orchie is usually low. Did you ever try just maintaining the high dosage that you have now at the peaks in your cycle? Maybe its just a matter of havin not high enough dosages? What I also found was that I feminized more once I switched to transdermal and away from pills after 15 years...
I know some people use injections and the claim there is similar to both - one is that one can reach higher dosages more safely with them and the other is that every injection is a high peak and before the next injection there is a deep valley, so it is also cyclic, just not in 28 day phases. Would your theory also explain why people in injections claim to feminize more?

[Mohini]

Did you ever try just maintaining the high dosage that you have now at the peaks in your cycle? Maybe its just a matter of havin not high enough dosages?

I know some people use injections and the claim there is similar to both - one is that one can reach higher dosages more safely with them and the other is that every injection is a high peak and before the next injection there is a deep valley, so it is also cyclic, just not in 28 day phases. Would your theory also explain why people in injections claim to feminize more?

The higher static dosages still did not work for me.  Yes, you can have a higher dosage and still be safe because it only occurs for a short period.  Now, I'm learning what "out front" means in the shower when I'm trying to soap my upper body with my hands on opposite sides.  That is a new experience for me.

I think you are right about the injections being on a substantially faster cycle (two weeks or less versus 28 days).  The low end of the injection cycle (near the end) is giving the body's receptors a break for a few days.  The added advantage of following the menstrual cycle is that after getting a break of about a week, the receptors have a decent period of rest, so when the higher primary peak hits, the receptors become VERY sensitized, and the estrogen level drops quickly after that peak, and then resumes to a more sustained level not as high as before in the secondary peak.  However, the receptors, being freshly woken back up, seem to take on the estrogen more strongly now that they are fully ready to work AND able to provide a base or substrate for progesterone to do its work during the progesterone peak (which happens to coincide with the secondary estrogen peak).  The reason for the dip down between the primary and secondary estrogen peaks may be to back the estrogen off to prep the receptors to being sensitive to the lowest input and really boost its action on its way up.  This helps the body to conserve its energy by not having to sustain as high of an estrogen input over a longer period in order for the body to feminize sufficiently during each cycle.  This is an ingenuous way to get the body to maximize results in natal females.  Somebody or SOMETHING really figured this out.

As I said above, I'm learning what "out front" means in the shower.  THAT is totally new to me!  One thing I would like to ask is if progesterone has an impact on your endurance in physical activities.  I had to struggle a bit to do my walk-run this morning.  Another thing is that the smaller nipple suddenly hurts in throbs from time to time.  It's like oww!  Another thing is that when I take the progesterone pill at 9 PM, I'm already getting sleepy around 9 30 - 10 PM, and I'm able to go to sleep.

[Virginia Hall]

I take prometrium pills rather than progesterone. It "calms you down and picks your up." Seriously, it is VERY centering in my case.

Yes, there is darkening of the nipples and some breast increase, even at my age. In combination with IM estradiol cypionate the results for me are very good.

[anjaq]

after getting a break of about a week, the receptors have a decent period of rest, so when the higher primary peak hits, the receptors become VERY sensitized, and the estrogen level drops quickly after that peak, and then resumes to a more sustained level not as high as before in the secondary peak.  However, the receptors, being freshly woken back up, seem to take on the estrogen more strongly now that they are fully ready to work AND able to provide a base or substrate for progesterone to do its work during the progesterone peak (which happens to coincide with the secondary estrogen peak).  The reason for the dip down between the primary and secondary estrogen peaks may be to back the estrogen off to prep the receptors to being sensitive to the lowest input and really boost its action on its way up.  This helps the body to conserve its energy by not having to sustain as high of an estrogen input over a longer period in order for the body to feminize sufficiently during each cycle.  This is an ingenuous way to get the body to maximize results in natal females.  Somebody or SOMETHING really figured this out.

Its an interesting hypothesis. Not sure it can be backed up by science though...

As I said above, I'm learning what "out front" means in the shower.  THAT is totally new to me!  One thing I would like to ask is if progesterone has an impact on your endurance in physical activities.  I had to struggle a bit to do my walk-run this morning.  Another thing is that the smaller nipple suddenly hurts in throbs from time to time.  It's like oww!  Another thing is that when I take the progesterone pill at 9 PM, I'm already getting sleepy around 9 30 - 10 PM, and I'm able to go to sleep.

What does "out front" mean?

I have gained a bit more energy with P, but also I lost weight with a diet recently, which makes it easier for me to do physical activities, so this overlaps in its effects. The sleepness is typical. What happens is that most of the Progesterone in the capsule you swallow is converted to allopregnanolone in the liver - called first pass effect - and this is anti-anxiety and sedative. I use it that way if I have a rough time and need sleep. Usually I use the capsules more fficiently by taking them sublingual (or putting them into lower body cavities) - this increases the amount of P going into the blood by a factor of 3-6.