Not satisfied with FFS outcome and consulting surgeons for round 2( US or Korea)

[Ypsf09]

Hello

It's been 6 months since my FFS( type 3 forehead reconstruction, rhinoplasty and genioplasty) and I am not satisfied with the outcome. With the right hairdo, makeup and accessories I can look attractive and very female but with flat hair pulled back I look weird.

I feel like my surgeon did a good job with the frontal sinus setback and the nose. However the eye orbital bone is still prominent and sticks out more than the frontal sinus. Looking from the side compared to the upper forehead, there is still a tiny bit of brow bone prominence. So far I have consulted with 4 other surgeons( speigel, MDM, chettawaut, Harrsion Lee) and they all think my forhead can be further feminized.

If at all I decide to have a second forhead surgery, I would like my forhead to be like this:

http://ypsf25.imgur.com

This is what is think is the ideal feminine forehead: round, curved with fullness in the upper and middle region and no browbone.

For me this would required shaving of the orbital rims, maybe further type 3 setback of the frontal sinus( I am getting CT scan next week to see if this is feasible) and use of bone paste in the upper and middle region to create a round curved volumous forehead.

The other problem area is my jaw. With flat hair pulled back I feel it's 1) wide in the front view 2) too much distance between ear and the chin i.e. long jawline 3. Mouth protrusion compared to forehead.

While jaw width reduction would help, I feel like just on its on without a jaw setback surgery it may create a wierd look since my jaw is not overly wide. Hence I am also consulting with Korean surgeons too see if they would be the best choice for both vline and double jaw surgery, the one that Miss Canada Jenna talackova had. I feel like after her surgery in Korea, she has achieved a truly hyper feminine look one that is very innocent, young, graceful and classy looking not sexualized(though nothing wrong with looking sexual).

My goal behind writing this post is to find fellow sisters that are 1) also not satisfied with their Ffs outcome and want to look like a feminine cis female 2) or maybe want to take their facial feminity to the next level or 3) are in the pursuit of perfection.

My intent is not to look artificial at all but if the pursuit to looking like a pretty female(with hair pulled back) makes me a bit artificial looking, then I am up for it too.

So far I am leaning towards Dr Harrison Lee but everytime I see the Korean transformations I think it should should to there for my lower face.

Have any of you though about going to Korea for jaw, nose and eye surgeries.

Thanks

[JaniceNL]

I sent you a pm.

[Ypsf09]

Hi Janice,

I am not allowed to pm.

Can you email me directly at ypsf25@gmail.com

[Dena]

You can receive PMs but you can't send them until you reach 15 quality posts.

[2cherry]

I would suggest reading a bit more about the bone paste/cement. If I remember well, Dr. Ousterhout wrote about that in his book. It can be a target for bacterial infection, especially if the sinus is covered. Any foreign material, implants or bone cement can carry a risk when you happen to get an infection anywhere in the body. Bacteria can latch unto foreign material, because the body can't defend it and therefore making it sites of possible infection. It is a remote risk, but a risk nonetheless.

Also, be aware of the dolphin forehead effect. I think Alexandra Hamer has something about that on her website. Where too much bone cement can alter the forehead so much that it looks like a dolphin's head.

[myfairlady49]

. . .

So far I am leaning towards Dr Harrison Lee but everytime I see the Korean transformations I think it should should to there for my lower face.

Have any of you though about going to Korea for jaw, nose and eye surgeries.

Thanks

So far,  all of the internet  "before/after" "results"  that come from Korea, have involved significant levels of photoshopping or other "non-transparent"  artistic effects (make-up, hair styles, etc.)

I assume that there are some accurate Korean "before-after" pictures out there somewhere,  but I have not yet seen them.   

One set of before and after Korean pictures featured on one of their web sites was either heavily photoshopped, or possibly not even the same individual. 

It is likely true that the best jaw surgeons in the world are in the U.S. and Europe.

[warlockmaker]

I have seen foreheads that you like done by fillers. It is very popular in Thailand and I think they look really good.. FFS can be a very dangerous surgery, it a long slow process and requires long GA.

[Ypsf09]

Thanks everyone for responding.

Also here's are my pics 6 months postop no makeup:

http://imgur.com/hzwwTNt

http://imgur.com/Ovu3a8s
http://imgur.com/rLlINKp
http://imgur.com/hhsnvKq
http://imgur.com/PTUxwl7
http://imgur.com/wMAxjjx


I am seeing Dr Lee next week. Based on my pics, he suggested jaw reduction, genioplasty, rhinoplasty, cheek implants and forehead reduction/ filling with bone cement

I also heard from two korean clinics and they think I have a square jaw and relatively long face. They said just square jaw reduction itself may make my face look more long and think, so they also recommended double jaw surgery to push both my jaws upward and backward while also slimming the edges.

I would be really grateful if you can tell me what procedures can truly help me more.

Cherry. Yes I have read about the bone paste /implant issues. Not sure if it's worth taking the risk for a rounder volumous forhead. Hope your recovery is progressing really well.

Myfairlady,

I agree with you on photoshopping, makeup and hair effects on the after pic. But I have been following this Canadian trans girl for years now and her transformation from jaw surgery in Korea is truly dramatic. I have even seen her videos after surgery and her after pics are not real.

Before:
http://imgur.com/KGvLL1J
http://imgur.com/XgqTcm1

After:

http://imgur.com/2M4LGy9


Warlockmaker,
Can you please share clinic names or Surgeons that can create that forehead with fat, implant or bone cement.


Thanks again.

Truly appreciate it.

[Ypsf09]

I meant the Canadian trans girls after pics are not photoshopped and are real.

Thanks

[anjaq]

You can EDIT posts in this forum if you made a mistake ...


Anyways, I think your forehead seems totally smooth to me - I am not sure how you would get it any smoother. If anthing, I would think that you might profit from a bit of fat grafts to the cheeks and maybe a skin rejuvenation - aka deep peeling. I would not touch the forehead or nose or lips - they are already very feminine and doing more to them would possibly cause them to look "done"...

[2cherry]

I think you are pretty. 

The only procedure I would suggest is some minor jaw work, possibly chin. The chin is one of the most difficult areas to do regarding aesthetics. Only the jaw hints something... but it's very very minor and only visible in the side profile. Since these are close-up photo's, it might be exaggerated. For better result, take photo's from at least 1 meter distance. Otherwise with closeups you will get lens distortion, and things look longer/shorter.

I would not touch your nose at all... I think your forehead looks fine. Very nice eyes, lips, cheeks. Beautiful actually.

[warlockmaker]

Now that I see your pics I can see where a forehead filler couid be use ful. You look good but for that movie star look. 

1. Implant to narrow the nose tip and raise the nose.  They can offer many implant shapes.
2. Cheek implants. You look very thin, and seem to have sunken cheeks
3. Forehead filler.  I will post the info after talking with my friend here.

[AnonyMs]

Warlockmaker, that's by far the best avatar photo you've posted so far. You look quite amazing.

[Uriahheep]

Gosh... Ypsf09 asks for suggestions for achieving natural feminine look, and all you have to suggest are fillers and implants?

Ypsf09 ... Your orbital rims are still in masculine range in projection and shape, especially on the sides. The reason of unnatural look are partially the eyebrows which are positioned a lot higher than where the natural eyebrow position is, just slightly above orbital edge. I guess thats not a problem , as it seems like you are plucking your eyebrows quite a bit.. Which is better than if you had too much eyebrow lift. Your orbital rim shaving alone will improve a lot about natural appearance that you want, secondarily instead of eyebrow lift for excess skin due to skeletal change, think possibly about leaving that for later date , when all heals, and then possibly think about upper blepharoplasty, instead of eyebrow lift.

Nose, if anything, cartilage graft for slightly more tip projection, will improve your profile and give more natural appearance... Im not sure what you really want ..

Chin, jaw.. you have quite a bit of frontal projection of upper jaw, and lower jaw... thats possible to change, but remember thats a big surgery. None of FFS surgeons offer such procedure. You would need to look at Korean surgens and orthognatic surgerons who offer Lefort I osteotomy, which is what Korean "double jaw" surgery essentialy is. Think hard about that. Maybe you would be happy with just smaller change on lower jaw... FFS surgeons can do that.

Before you jump into any multiple procedure surgery, rather think everythink through... maybe do forehead-orbital area first, and see how you feel about anything else. Maybe you wont need anything else.

If you will think about cheeks... think hydroxyapatite and/or fat transfer.. Avoid implants. Feminization of face is MOSTLY about making facial features smaller, NOT bigger.

I have curved rounded forehead type like your doll http://imgur.com/a/YcLWL
(done by one of the surgeons you mentioned above..)
Send me your e-mail contact through personal message, if you are interested in pics.. I dont mind sharing in private.

[Ypsf09]

Thank you Anjaq, 2cherry, Warlockmaker and Uriahheep for yor suggestions and comments. I really really appreciate it and thank you from the bottom of my heart.

Uriahheep,

I can't send personal messages yet. My email id is ypsf25@gmail.com

Geez if your surgeon can get me that forehead without implants or Bone cement that would be phenomenal. I wonder why my surgeon didnt reduce those orbital rims more on me. I thought those bones were very thick with no air cavity beneath. And yes I keep my eyebrows a little high right now to camouflage the brow bone that is still left.

As far as nose goes, I was hoping for a little more slimming but that's given I get my lower face reduced by both vline and double jaw surgery.

I have major major dysphoria due to my face and it hurts me on a daily basis. I know I will be only at peace once every aspect of my face is as feminine as possible. Hopefully I can find that peace without having to go through double jaw surgery but with every new day, I am more and more prepared for it too in addition to everything else.

I look forward to hearing from you. And once again thanks a lot for your detailed feedback.

[Ypsf09]

Between this is the response I received from a korean clinic:

"
We have looked into your photos and it seems like you have long face with significant mouth protrusion. Also it seems like you have asymmetric front chin, protruding cheekbone and large square jaw on the aspect of facial contour.

Thus these are the possible procedures that I would recommend in order to improve on your concern and make your face more similar to V-shaped as you have mentioned on the phone:

Mouth protrusion and long upper jaw could be improved by our two jaw surgery which:
1. Fractures both upper and lower jaw bone.
2. Relocate the fractured bones to desired position and trim them.
3. Fixate the bones together with titanium fixing pins (same material as teeth implant-its safety has been proved).

This would be able to correct on your mouth protrusion symptoms as well as reducing the length of your upper jaw which cannot be corrected with facial contouring procedures.

In addition to this, I would also recommend our facial contouring procedures including front chin surgery, square jaw reduction and cheekbone reduction to achieve your desired V-lined shape.
These procedures would be able to make your face slimmer as well as improving your impression to be softer and more feminine.

The estimated cost for two jaw surgery with facial contouring procedures including front chin osteotomy, square jaw reduction and cheekbone surgery would be 20,000,000~22,000,000 KRW*.

[Miss Lux]

In plastic surgery perfection is the enemy of good.... I've seen so many beautiful faces ruined due to their endless quest for perfection..... I dont believe in a perfect nose, perfect forehead, perfect eyes, jaw ... You look at it in relation to one another as a whole... And there are safe limitations on the changes that can be done....like a too thin nose will look out of place in the company of big eyes and wide face like a soprano will be out of place in a choir of alto or bass... Goodluck!

[anjaq]

May I give a bit of unwanted advice? I know I should put a helmet on for this one, but can you maybe choose a real life picture as an ideal instead of a plastic doll? A plastic doll like in that picture is artificial - unless you really want to look artificial it is not a great idea in my harsh opinion to pick such an image to illustrate the goals.

[warlockmaker]

Korea is most renown for its chin surgery. Their work is just incredible. If you do it there please do a write up. 

[2cherry]

I think the korean clinic gave you some good advice.

It is also the same as I thought: the height of the jaw can give too much hints. But only if you know where to look. The average person probably doesn't see it, unless you point it out. But for your own dysphoria, it might be just enough to trigger it when you look in the mirror or looking at pictures.

I would not touch the nose at all. Doing too much to it will be very risky. It's small and delicate already.

That said, I think you pass already. Pretty. If you get the jaw, you might look very beautiful. So it is up to you.