Can transitioning from male to female EVER be a casual thing?

[Raell]

Does anyone know any male anywhere who just jumped up, donned female clothes, got divorced, got her documents switched, changed occupations, changed countries, changed genders, in a casual, offhand manner?

Several months ago, as I've mentioned on several previous posts, my 6' 1," muscular, hairy, balding, ex-Navy pilot, ex-airline pilot ex-husband emailed me that she wanted to transition to living as a female, and move to Thailand to live with me.
She said, given a choice, she would check the "other" gender box.

Extenuating circumstances abound.

1. My ex has been married to a religious, strict Republican doctor for the past three years, works 90+ hours a week for her wife, and maintains her wife's clinic website.

2. My ex's wealthy family are also religious, strict Republicans.

3. We broke up because she was deceptive and dangerously jealous, and I moved to Thailand.

4. When she first contacted me, I gave her a difficult list to complete before I would allow her to come here, including being divorced, getting counseling to see where she was in the gender identity spectrum, getting a passport in her new, preferred gender, and having an income source that can be maintained online.

5. His/her infrequent emails to me brushed aside or ignored my objections or questions, speaking cheerfully as though assuming that she will soon have her wife making enough money from her website that she will be free to come out to her wife, transition, and move to Thailand, and that she can hardly wait to see me. So far, she's not completed any of these things, but those things do take time.

I assumed ahe was running a scam to escape a sexless marriage (according to her) and ignored her, but she keeps emailing every few weeks.

I'm stumped. How can anyone be cheerfully casual about this?
I sent him/her? pages of information-links to LGBTQ places in her area, links to transitioning requirements for her state, etc. But she seems not have read them and only says she's busy, busy.

Maybe it's a good thing my ex is so seemingly oblivious, if any of this is true, but if there's anything I learned from reading MtF autobiographies and having a transwoman friend from high school, it's not simple to transition from being a wealthy, privileged, upper class alpha male to living as a female.

[Dena]

I have seen it several times in the SO section where a MTF discards anything in their life they no longer want and go full female. The SOs where badly hurt and came to the site asking for answers that we weren't able to give. That type of personality can be very self centered and you need to be very careful about letting her back into your life until you are sure of her motives or you may be hurt again.

It's not so much a casual thing because a MTF transition involves an enormous amount of work and HRT can induce dysphoria. If she has gone this far, it's very likely she is transgender but that is not a statement about the quality of her character.

[KathyLauren]

I haven't heard of it, but then there's a lot of things I haven't heard of.

Your statement that your ex was deceptive and dangerously jealous is significant.  Given those characteristics, there is a real risk that this is just a play to get you back.  Keep them in mind as you make any decision on this.  Look out for your own safety.

[warlockmaker]

I guess I am of of the very lucky ones:

Secretly started HRT and spoke with therapists, no stress just reassurance
Never had a RLE
When I realized I was TG I seperated from my wife, gave her a great post nuptial settlement.
Told my family and children a few months before surgery, without any problems.
Told all my friends, a couple reacted badly
Packed up from HK and Macau, my family home of over 400 years, and moved to Bangkok
Moved my investment company to Bangkok
Had my srs, ffs, ba in Bangkok in January this year
After srs I dressed as a female for the first time and never looked back
Made a large number of great new friends who didnt know I used to be male
Changed my passport easily after srs

I often wonder why my transition or just a sudden jump to being a woman was so smooth. I guess its the following:

Positive attitude, I live each day appreciating each day.
I am spiritually fufilled as a bhuddist
I'm exceptionally health conscious, eat healthy, exercise daily, dont drink or smoke.
I lived a full successful life as a male, fufilled all my family duties and have 4 children
I am the family patriach, I control the finances, and I am financially secure.
Finally, at 68 years old, I could not care what others think.
Now living in Bangkok a place where there is no stress being myself.
I think we are special to live 2 lives in one lifetime.

[Raell]

Thanks, Dena and Kathy

I agree it's a risk. My hope is that my list makes moving here a less profitable scam.

But even if she really is trans, that doesn't mean her scary tendencies have vanished.

My plan is for her to rent a nearby apartment and just be friends for a while. However, I keep worrying that she really is in trouble and must transition to prevent suicide, but doesn't have the courage to do so alone.

Even so, she could still be using me and my place as a handy place to crash, and get free transition help.

I am unsure how to ascertain her sincerity, however.

Warlockmaker, you give me hope. He is definitely an alpha male, has kids and grandkids from a previous marriage, and in some areas shows remarkable independence, as he was a vegan when I met him. He is not fixed financially anymore, due to his secretly gambling on the forex with our funds during our marriage, so in that he is NOT like you.

[Dena]

Warlockmaker, the difference in this case is you are a very responsible person who took care of the needs of others in your life. Raell's SO and the ones I mentioned in the SO section abandon the people in their former life leaving much hurt in their wake. 

[BeerBurpGirl]

It's not so much a casual thing because a MTF transition involves an enormous amount of work and HRT can induce dysphoria.

What is HRT induced dysphoria?



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[AnxietyDisord3r]

Raell, from your comments on this thread and your comments earlier, I believe your ex is a narcissist. You were right to get away from your ex (heck, you moved to another country! that's drastic) and continuing to engage with a narcissist is dangerous. S/he is disrupting your life even from 1000s of miles away.

You probably aren't ready to do this but what you should do is cut off all contact. You do not owe your ex anything. Do you really want your life to go back to the way it was? I think you are holding out some hope that things will be different, but narcissists don't change. Sometimes they can be constrained but that's a full time job. You've figured out who you are, you have a good life ... why mess that up? Just my two cents.

[AnxietyDisord3r]

What is HRT induced dysphoria?

Same thing that happens to trans people on endogenous hormones can happen to cis people on exogenous hormones if they're cross sex hormones. Anxiety, depression, diminished cognitive function, as well as dysphoria over hormone mediated bodily changes such as body hair or fat deposition.

[Dena]

What is HRT induced dysphoria?



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It works both ways but I am going to explain MTFs. Our brain is different from before birth and thats why young TG children can express a desire to be the opposite gender. When puberty hits and the testosterone levels ramp up, the TG feeling also ramp and many of us become aware of our feeling in our teens. In addition body changes like hair, lower voice or masculine appearance also add to the dysphoria. Going on blockers suppresses  the testosterone levels reducing the dysphoria, sometimes enough that some members are able to live without a transition as long as they remain on HRT. I have seen reports on the site where people see a drastic reduction in their dysphoria between 2 weeks and a month after the blockers are sufficiently high to reduce testosterone levels.

There are blockers for FTMs but they seem to be very expensive. The advantage FTMS have is testosterone is a blocker at the levels used to treat FTMs so their treatment often only requires testosterone.

Some doctors have suggested a true test of a person being transgender is to put them on hormones. If they become more comfortable with themselves on hormones, they are transgender. If they become uncomfortable, they are not.

[CarlyMcx]

IDK.  Being casual about something that has the potential to totally demolish your whole life is, to me, a huge red flag.  This is especially true of someone who used to be a pilot.  I grew up next to a major airport, and half of my high school class wanted to be pilots, and several guys I know made it.

Every one of them tended to be very careful and very methodical in every aspect of their lives, not just in the cockpit seat.

I washed out of aerospace engineering and went to law school instead, but I am still very careful and methodical, and my gender transition is no exception.  I spent six months figuring out how to come out to my wife.  I spent a year crossdressing at home before I even went in for gender therapy because I wanted to be absolutely sure about this.  I did not start facial hair removal until after six months on hormones.

Based on what you say, your ex seems to have no concern at all about the actual transition, and more about using the idea of transitioning in order to induce you into letting him/her back into your life and becoming his/her total support system for a move to Thailand.

You said this person is deceptive, jealous and abusive.  So there are a lot of red flags here.  I have two immediate thoughts, one is, what is this person running away from, and the other is, how sure are you that the minute he/she arrives in Bangkok and moves in, they are not going to run off and spend all their time and your money in the bars and sex clubs?  I would be worried, based on your description and your other posts, that this person has narcissistic personality disorder, and possibly bipolar disorder as well.  People like that are chameleons, and will become whoever and whatever they need to be in order to get what they want.  And that seems to be what is going on here.

[Raell]

Yup, many red flags flapping in the wind.

I did set up a barrier: a to-do list to be completed before I'd give her? my address.

Coming out to family and wife as transgender (if that's really the case)
Getting gender counseling
having NO debts

Having a reliable means of income that can done online. I.e., I gave her a link to free online certification in remote accounting, since she excels in numbers and details and even worked for H&R Block for a while. Or she can find her own legal online income.

She must deposit at least 1000 USD to my bank account
She must admit to her family and current wife what she did to me when we were married, and provide me with proof of completion of all the things above, and my own independent online verification should pass.

I also said I'd contact one of her family members and ask them about myself. If I don't like what I hear, my ex is not getting my address, since that means she never told them what really happened.


Then, if she passes everything on the list I gave her? and she comes to southern Thailand, any infraction would cancel the deal.
I live in the southernmost part of Thailand, near the beach, few Caucasians around.

We would live as friends for the first few months. If she breaks any of the following rules, she has to move out.
She has to pay her own way, buy her own clothes
She has to dress so as to blend in.
She couldn't hit on ANYone or get "over-friendly" with locals, since they have different flirting standards from Americans
She couldn't hit any bars trying to pick up EITHER gender or try to attract prurient attention, wear extreme clothing in public.
She can't be calling her mom, her ex-wife, constantly talking about them to me, putting me last
She has to fit in with my lifestyle, and only buy enough clothes/shoes to fit into half of my small wooden wardrobe.
She couldn't embarrass me to my friends and work peers with outrageous behavior.
Any angry, or dangerous behavior means that she must move immediately.

Personally, I don't think she'll pass even the first three items in the first list, or even the FIRST one, since I don't see evidence yet of true dysphoria. She's claimed having it a few times, but mostly just seems cheerful and upbeat.

[LizK]

What is HRT induced dysphoria?



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This is how I would describe it

As we proceed with our transitions and take hormones so our bodies begin to align with who we are, so we also learn to accept ourselves as being who we truly are and as we help our bodies become the women/men we really are, the Dysphoria we have living as our assigned birth gender becomes even more acute therefore bringing on more anxiety, depression and states of self hate, along with all the other horrible things that come with Dysphoria..

Liz

[LizK]

Yup, many red flags flapping in the wind.

I did set up a barrier: a to-do list to be completed before I'd give her? my address.

Coming out to family and wife as transgender (if that's really the case)
Getting gender counseling
having NO debts

Having a reliable means of income that can done online. I.e., I gave her a link to free online certification in remote accounting, since she excels in numbers and details and even worked for H&R Block for a while. Or she can find her own legal online income.

She must deposit at least 1000 USD to my bank account
She must admit to her family and current wife what she did to me when we were married, and provide me with proof of completion of all the things above, and my own independent online verification should pass.

I also said I'd contact one of her family members and ask them about myself. If I don't like what I hear, my ex is not getting my address, since that means she never told them what really happened.


Then, if she passes everything on the list I gave her? and she comes to southern Thailand, any infraction would cancel the deal.
I live in the southernmost part of Thailand, near the beach, few Caucasians around.

We would live as friends for the first few months. If she breaks any of the following rules, she has to move out.
She has to pay her own way, buy her own clothes
She has to dress so as to blend in.
She couldn't hit on ANYone or get "over-friendly" with locals, since they have different flirting standards from Americans
She couldn't hit any bars trying to pick up EITHER gender or try to attract prurient attention, wear extreme clothing in public.
She can't be calling her mom, her ex-wife, constantly talking about them to me, putting me last
She has to fit in with my lifestyle, and only buy enough clothes/shoes to fit into half of my small wooden wardrobe.
She couldn't embarrass me to my friends and work peers with outrageous behavior.
Any angry, or dangerous behavior means that she must move immediately.

Personally, I don't think she'll pass even the first three items in the first list, or even the FIRST one, since I don't see evidence yet of true dysphoria. She's claimed having it a few times, but mostly just seems cheerful and upbeat.

Hi Raell

I can remember having long discussion with my sister in law about a trans woman she worked with. My sister in law is horribly transphobic and went on to blame all of this woman's bad "habits" or "Traits" on the woman she worked with being trans.

It took quite awhile but my sister in law eventually agreed that the chances were that the woman she worked with was  probably a nasty person prior to transition. Transitioning will not stop/change this person from being a nasty person, it might make them a happier nasty person...

Transition won't stop a liar from lying or a deceiver from deceiving

Good luck and I hope I am totally wrong and this person turns out to be totally changed and you have a wonder rest of your life with them.

Liz

[Raell]

All true.

In my defense, I'm guessing that if I posted a photo of my ex, both dressed and in briefs, there would be a stampede after him/her by most gender variations, no matter how dangerous he/she is.

I have a strong male personality, and like many/most males, tend to see girls as harmless, and keep finding excuses for him/her.

He/she also is licensed in both foot and face massage, which she volunteered to do every night while we snuggled to watch movies together, we traveled the world-camping in Tasmania, camel trekking in Australia, rode and drove horses year round together, went ballroom/jitterbug dancing most weekends, did the housework if I wasn't quick enough, dressed impeccably, was vegan, had a lean, muscular body and could go hand-over-hand up a rope to the top of our maple tree and back down-without touching the rope with his/her legs.

BUT..that dangerous element, though usually hidden, was there.

And, yes, he/she is so treacherous, I am no doubt being unwise to even give him/her a chance-and am probably playing around with a dangerous shark.

My hope is that my list will stop him/her since I demanded both proof from him, and independent verification.

[SonadoraXVX]

Raell,

Sounds like your ex is still narcissistic and personalities don't normally change after hrt, they can, but not something like narcissism or sociopathy, in my experience, or if a person is a Alpha, Beta, or Omega personality.

[Raell]

So, there's no chance that someone can change for the better after transitioning? I suppose, though, that people becoming more relaxed and happy still wouldn't change their basic morals.

I suppose my only hope to avoid trouble is my list, and even if my ex passes the list and moves here, she can still live in a nearby apartment and have totally separate computers, bank accounts, etc, thus lessening her chances of sabotaging me.

[CarlyMcx]

For an MTF transgender, female hormones make you less grumpy, less irritable, less angry and less anxious.  But they do not make you less manipulative, less dishonest or less treacherous if you have any problems in those areas.

[jentay1367]

I guess I am of of the very lucky ones:

Secretly started HRT and spoke with therapists, no stress just reassurance
Never had a RLE
When I realized I was TG I seperated from my wife, gave her a great post nuptial settlement.
Told my family and children a few months before surgery, without any problems.
Told all my friends, a couple reacted badly
Packed up from HK and Macau, my family home of over 400 years, and moved to Bangkok
Moved my investment company to Bangkok
Had my srs, ffs, ba in Bangkok in January this year
After srs I dressed as a female for the first time and never looked back
Made a large number of great new friends who didnt know I used to be male
Changed my passport easily after srs

I often wonder why my transition or just a sudden jump to being a woman was so smooth. I guess its the following:

Positive attitude, I live each day appreciating each day.
I am spiritually fufilled as a bhuddist
I'm exceptionally health conscious, eat healthy, exercise daily, dont drink or smoke.
I lived a full successful life as a male, fufilled all my family duties and have 4 children
I am the family patriach, I control the finances, and I am financially secure.
Finally, at 68 years old, I could not care what others think.
Now living in Bangkok a place where there is no stress being myself.
I think we are special to live 2 lives in one lifetime.

You, my dear are blessed to have the semblance of mind, strength of character as well as financial wherewithal to have done what you've done. I'm impressed as hell. But you are a very rare person, as is obvious from your status in life. Congratulations though, I stand in awe of what you have accomplished and how you accomplished it.  Both personally and professionally.

[Kylo]

I hear that it's easier to be trans in Thailand because it's an accepted "class" of people so to speak. This isn't the first time I've heard the idea of someone deciding to go live there as trans with minimal fuss. But I don't know for sure. Maybe it's not that easy in Thailand after all.