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I was born with 'ambiguous genitalia'...

Started by MissGendered, January 12, 2017, 06:27:10 PM

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MissGendered

#20
Okay, where to begin?

I have a tall glass of strong ice-coffee beside me, and I have freed up my schedule for a few hours so I can address the many, many issues that need clarifying and elaboration while the ideas are fresh in my mind. Bear with me if I jump around from topic to topic, there are lots of synapses firing all over my brain, ha!

First issue, I have to confess I was thinking very seriously about logging onto the site this morning and removing all my posts and deleting my profile. As I was sharing with a mod in PM, I am a very private person now, despite the fact that I lived a very high-profile public life while I was stuck in 'male' mode. My ex-bf and I spent a wonderful evening together last night, and though I love him, and though he does not reciprocate my love, we do share passion, and common interests, and we are becoming great friends. But, as I told the mod, all I really wanted to do today was make him breakfast and chat with him while I did the breakfast dishes. Those that knew me in 'male' mode would be sooo disappointed that I am so unmotivated to succeed at anything beyond intimacy with a man. Yes, I am still passionate about being creative, but only in traditional female pursuits. I make clothing and jewelry, mostly, not high-art, not performance art. I have given up celebrity for just being the tall woman next door, lol.

Sooo, yes, I was going to pull the plug. Then I read my PMs and the replies to my posts. And I was moved. Why? Because I see so many wonderfully considerate people here, all trying to find their own way, and here I am, having completed most of so many difficult, soul-crushing journeys, and I am selfishly not willing to even let anybody have a glimpse into how I did these things. But I am loathe to be perceived as someone that celebrates herself in any way. I truly only want to be normal, as if nothing unusual ever happened to me. And honestly, I feel like that now, most of the time. When I am here, I become aware again of just how long and difficult my road had been, and it makles me self-conscious. But now? I am not in much pain, not really. Yes, I was despondent when I first posted, but truthfully, it was a very self-indulgent post, a wallowing sort of cry for compassion, and I feel a bit guilty for invoking so much of my past in order to receive sympathy.

So, thank you, Tessa, for your offer of hugs and comfort, but dang, I am happy go lucky today, and full of light, and I feel pretty dang good in just about every way possible. I got laid last night, had a great steak dinner, got laid again, and then cuddled and chatted softly with a herculean man that I admire and love. And he knows all about everything, and is okay with all of it, so even if he doesn't love me forever, so what? My glass is 85% full, who am I to belly-ache? ;-)

So that is the first round, gimme a minute to regroup and pee, lol, and I will dig into the next order of business..
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Tessa James

Quote from: MissGendered on January 15, 2017, 01:21:37 PM
Okay, where to begin?

I have a tall glass of strong ice-coffee beside me, and I have freed up my schedule for a few hours so I can address the many, many issues that need clarifying and elaboration while the ideas are fresh in my mind. Bear with me if I jump around from topic to topic, there are lots of synapses firing all over my brain, ha!

First issue, I have to confess I was thinking very seriously about logging onto the site this morning and removing all my posts and deleting my profile. As I was sharing with a mod in PM, I am a very private person now, despite the fact that I lived a very high-profile public life while I was stuck in 'male' mode. My ex-bf and I spent a wonderful evening together last night, and though I love him, and though he does not reciprocate my love, we do share passion, and common interests, and we are becoming great friends. But, as I told the mod, all I really wanted to do today was make him breakfast and chat with him while I did the breakfast dishes. Those that knew me in 'male' mode would be sooo disappointed that I am so unmotivated to succeed at anything beyond intimacy with a man. Yes, I am still passionate about being creative, but only in traditional female pursuits. I make clothing and jewelry, mostly, not high-art, not performance art. I have given up celebrity for just being the tall woman next door, lol.

Sooo, yes, I was going to pull the plug. Then I read my PMs and the replies to my posts. And I was moved. Why? Because I see so many wonderfully considerate people here, all trying to find their own way, and here I am, having completed most of so many difficult, soul-crushing journeys, and I am selfishly not willing to even let anybody have a glimpse into how I did these things. But I am loathe to be perceived as someone that celebrates herself in any way. I truly only want to be normal, as if nothing unusual ever happened to me. And honestly, I feel like that now, most of time. When I am here, I become aware again of just how long and difficult my road had been, and it makles me self-conscious. But now? I am not in much pain, not really. Yes, I was despondent when I first posted, but truthfully, it was a very self-indulgent post, a wallowing sort of cry for compassion, and I feel a bit guilty for invoking so much of my past in order to receive sympathy.

So, thank you, Tessa, for your offer of hugs and comfort, but dang, I am happy go lucky today, and full of light, and I feel pretty dang good in just about every way possible. I got laid last night, had a great steak dinner, got laid again, and then cuddled and chatted softly with a herculean man that I admire and love. And he knows all about everything, and is okay with all of it, so even if he doesn't love me forever, so what? My glass is 85% full, who am I to belly-ache? ;-)

So that is the first round, gimme a minute to regroup and pee, lol, and I will dig into the next order of business..

Ok then you may just need a very plush and soft cushion to sit upon as you reflect on that carnal luxury while you hit the keys ;)  Plenty of opportunities for ying and yang on this ride ;D
Open, out and evolving queer trans person forever with HRT support since March 13, 2013
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MissGendered

"Hetro-Normativity"

There, I said it, lol...

So, yeah, here I am, highly hetero-normative, on a trans support site. I will try to remember that compared to most here, I am traveling backward. My 'trans' experience was imposed on me from the outside in. Doctors made me 'trans', and with my parents' consent and encouragement, they mutilated my female body, and crushed my feminine spirit, and stole my birthright to bear my own children. For me, 'trans-ness' was a nightmare. I was an unwilling FTM transsexual. For trans-people, 'trans' is who they are, and something many celebrate, while yet others frame it as a disorder to also be corrected. There are several key issues at play here, and my needs run contrary to the majority of trans folk, regardless of how they frame their condition. Soo, of course I get my feelings hurt in such populations, and of course my assertions rankle and trigger negative reactions from those that were born trans, regardless of how they frame their circumstances. If I may be so bold as to speak as if I understand anybody other than myself, to those trans people that frame trans-ness as something that occurs naturally and as something that should be celebrated as biological diversity, my repugnance at my own 'trans' history seems insulting. To those that frame their trans-ness as being a disorder that requires 'curing', my easy de-transition from 'male' to female seems desirable, and they cannot fathom why I am not celebrating my success in becoming the woman I should have always been. For me, my womanhood was stolen, denied, and worse. Becoming who I was biologically ordained to be genetically, was too little, too late in my mind, at times, though not so much now that I have attained so much of that which I had lost before. So, there is little I can say about my journey that reflects the experience of a biologically male, female-brained transitioner, no matter how she frames her experience. I will try to remember this fact, so as to not offend your sensibilities, but please, bear with me, my own perspective is also legitimate.

Now, onto the intersex issue.

Again, intersex people tend to frame their experience in one of two ways. One group sees their intersex status as being part of the natural biodiversity of humankind. And, for some, it is. But, my IS status was not part of the spectrum of human biodiversity, it was imposed on my body through exposure to Diethylstilbestrol while in utero. My mother was prescribed this carcinogenic synthetic super-estrogen as a miscarriage preventative. I am a DES Daughter. My inter-sexuality was inflicted on me, and I want that fact to disappear. It is unnatural. It is a nightmare from which there is no awakening.

The second way IS people tend to frame their status, is as a disorder that may, or may not, require medical intervention to 'fix'. My parents and doctors saw my situation like that, and upon seeing my large clitoris, they decided 'fixing' me was the way to go. That was the wrong answer, lol. I would have been just fine with my anatomy as it was when I was born, and I could have lived a normal life, had kids, grandkids, etc. Yes, the risk for clear-celled carcinoma would have been present, and my descendants for at least three generations would have been vulnerable to the possibility of having odd sex organs, etc., such as "T" shaped uteri, but we would all have had normal lives.

So, yes, my direction down the transition highway is the reverse of most transitioners, I am running toward the very same hetero-normalcy that has disabused the entire LGBT population is some way, shape, or form. I get it. I want to be that which you can either perhaps never be, nor likely wish to be, nor likely think that anybody should especially promote. So many LGBT-ers have been, and continue to be, traumatized by hetero society. I get that. I feel your pain. But though they are often horrid to you, these are my people. I will try to remember this, and be more sensitive to your point of view, and likewise, please, realize that not all hetero-normals are haters. I am certainly not a hater.

Whewww, that was a hard one. Gonna need more coffee, lol. Back later...
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MissGendered

Quote from: Tessa James on January 15, 2017, 01:39:03 PM
Ok then you may just need a very plush and soft cushion to sit upon as you reflect on that carnal luxury while you hit the keys ;)  Plenty of opportunities for ying and yang on this ride ;D

Too funny, I actually do have a bed pillow on my chair, lol, I am a wee bit sore, ha ha ha!!

Yeah, it's all good, ha! ;-)
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Tessa James

#24
Miss G I trust no one will challenge your perspectives about your own experiences.  Your gender identity, orientation and affiliations are certainly yours to own and affirm. 

I would suggest that many people do consider themselves "hetero-normative" after fully transitioning and that they too have a private medical history that does not preclude being part of everyday life. Some folks acknowledge being transgender but may consider it part of their past as they live fully integrated lives.  Still, who we hang out with and identify as "my people" does not guarantee our welcome inclusion as a full rights member?

I love being part of the whole rainbow world of LGBTQIA people and feel part of the greater world we also inhabit every day.
Open, out and evolving queer trans person forever with HRT support since March 13, 2013
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MissGendered

Quote from: Tessa James on January 15, 2017, 02:18:27 PM
Still, who we hang out with and identify as "my people" does not guarantee our welcome inclusion as a full rights member?

I am fortunate that 'my people' cannot see my past, and usually treat me as well, or poorly, as any other full rights member. Unless I disclose, that is, then my membership card can be revoked, hence my desire for leaving my past behind.

Yes, I have known trans-girls that enjoy the same privilege, and these are also 'my people', but in an even more special way! :-)
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josie76

MissG your story is horrific. I feel so sad that you had to experience all of it. Your inner strength however is quite inspiring. Everyone here has always been very supportive and understanding. I didn't even realize there was those divisions in the trans community until others have mentioned similar treatment from other sites.

I have found the support from everyone here at Susan's Place to be invaluable. I hope you find the same here.
04/26/2018 bi-lateral orchiectomy

A lifetime of depression and repressed emotions is nothing more than existence. I for one want to live now not just exist!

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mac1

Missgendered,

Please stay and continue to share your experiences and views.

With the gender anatomy which you described having at birth I am surprised the didn't choose to raise you as a girl.  With just a slightly large clitoris that should not have been a problem.  Also, there would not have a need for any surgery.

How large was your clitoris at birth and how large is it now?  Could you have lived with it as a girl?
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MissGendered

Quote from: mac1 on January 15, 2017, 11:23:13 PM
Missgendered,

Please stay and continue to share your experiences and views.

With the gender anatomy which you described having at birth I am surprised the didn't choose to raise you as a girl.  With just a slightly large clitoris that should not have been a problem.  Also, there would not have a need for any surgery.

How large was your clitoris at birth and how large is it now?  Could you have lived with it as a girl?

Mac1,

Well, my parents wanted another boy badly enough that my mother risked her life trying for 4 years. She had an RH clotting disorder that threatened her with death by hemorrhage with every pregnancy. She also tended to miscarry, and had two stillborn twins with her surviving children, as well. Between me and my next oldest sibling, she had no less than 4 miscarriages, but she was determined to give my father another son. This is why she was taking so much DES, to help with miscarriage prevention. No, DES was not actually helpful in that regard, but that was the idea. So, given the choice, they opted for 'male'..

Google 'women with large clits' and see what pops up, you will get the idea. Some women have HUGE clits, and they are doing just fine. How big was mine at birth? I dunno, nobody will ever know now, lol, but I can tell you that after T treatment it kept growing, and growing. At 15 I had less than 3" fully erect, but it kept growing all my life, and I kept getting taller, too. My clit was over 8" when I started T blockers and E, and I had grown 4 inches taller since high school, too, It shrunk a LOT once I was on E, and my guess is it wouldn't have been much bigger than a small thumb had I been left alone. My vaginal depth is about 6 inches, which takes it as deep or deeper than most women, and it expands just like any other girl when I am excited and penetrated.

Now that I have had my infant phalloplasty reversed, my clit is a bit bigger than normal, but not abnormally large at all. Dr. Brassard got it exactly right, and my entire reconstruction has been a resounding success. Because of the risk of clear-cell carcinoma from DES exposure, he used my clitoral skin to re-line my vaginal canal. Only internal female tissue is at risk for cancer from DES, so it is a blessing in disguise that my clit grew so large from T exposure. I lubricate very nicely, and I am very sensate inside, and my G spot works as if there had been no problem whatsoever, and my clit is VERY sensitive and orgasmic as well. I certainly cannot believe that all the slicing and dicing while a child, and again more recently, has made my lady parts any better than they would have been had they left them alone, but I can say for sure that as they are now, they get the job done as well, or better, than many women with no surgical history. All is well that ends well, for sure!

Yes, I think I could have lived with a large clit as a girl. I would likely have been self-conscious, but once I figured out that bigger meant more pleasure, I would have celebrated my 'difference'.
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MissGendered

Quote from: josie76 on January 15, 2017, 11:10:43 PM
MissG your story is horrific. I feel so sad that you had to experience all of it. Your inner strength however is quite inspiring. Everyone here has always been very supportive and understanding. I didn't even realize there was those divisions in the trans community until others have mentioned similar treatment from other sites.

I have found the support from everyone here at Susan's Place to be invaluable. I hope you find the same here.

Thank you, Josie!

One should never underestimate a woman. I did what I had to do, nothing more, nothing less. You'd likely have done the same had you walked in my shoes, I am not special in that regard...
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Veda

Missy,

I hope you stay, I hope you keep telling your story.  Why?

We need to know it, I need to know it.

Monsters are real, Evil is real.

A survivor like you, of this kind of corruption, no matter your gender, it is necessary to hear what you have to say.
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MissGendered

#31
Quote from: Veda on January 17, 2017, 12:31:06 PM
Missy,

I hope you stay, I hope you keep telling your story.  Why?

We need to know it, I need to know it.

Monsters are real, Evil is real.

A survivor like you, of this kind of corruption, no matter your gender, it is necessary to hear what you have to say.

Thank you, Veda. Truthfully, I have probably already said most of what needs saying, except maybe more detail about my DID and alters and how that plays out with gender-variance. Most DID-ers have alters of both genders and/or mixed gender and/or no gender. So, yeah, gender-fluidity is what it looks like from the outside, for sure. Sometimes DID is mistaken for trans stuff, sometimes trans stuff is dismissed if somebody is DID, sometimes, as in my case, there are trans issues, DID issues AND intersex issues all jumbled together. I am lucky. When my core, me, re-emerged, I was happy to find out about my de-transition to femaleness. Had it gone the wrong way, I might have woke up and been like "<not allowed>, where is my <penis>!!!!!, oh nooooo!!!", lol... So, yes, I will stay long enough to get my take on that mix of things on record, but again, truthfully, I am becoming fatigued by dwelling in the past, though it has been a fruitful visit here for me up to this point. We'll see.

Missy

Moderator edit: Edited out a word not allowed(even with asterisks) and changed a slang term to a clinical one.
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Veda

I hope you just hang around then, no need to talk about the past.

Give fashion advice, tell jokes, offer support, whatever you like.

What you have described, it's beyond my ability to imagine myself in your place.

Though there are others here who are able, I'm sure.

If and when you do feel like talking more about it, I'm wondering, have any of the conspirators in this crime come to justice?

The reason I ask is that things like what happened to you are still happening to others, and I would like to know if it is possible to bring charges against them.
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MissGendered

Quote from: Veda on January 17, 2017, 04:42:44 PM

If and when you do feel like talking more about it, I'm wondering, have any of the conspirators in this crime come to justice?

The reason I ask is that things like what happened to you are still happening to others, and I would like to know if it is possible to bring charges against them.

My parents are thankfully both dead, and they should be glad they are, I have some very 'assertive' alters that would like to have had some time alone with either or both of them. I am very glad my system is unified behind me now that I am conscious again. Protector alters are volatile enough, but punisher alters have tunnel vision. It may have not been pretty.

The doctors involved are likely all dead also, if not, I doubt any legal recourse would be available, and even if it were, the case would be public record, and that would make being deep stealth even harder than it already is.

My brothers were minors when they abused me. No recourse to be had there, either.

Bullies were all minors, and there is no proof, just the emotional scars, so again, nope, nothing I can do.

I could hunt them down, easily enough, but no, I am way past that, and I am glad I am.

It is perfectly normal for a person to be outraged for me, and want to see justice done. Any time I have shared even a sliver of my past with a guy, they immediately want to hurt the brother that raped me, but that is about them, really, not about me. It would only bring more pain and humiliation on me, and it would feed the psychotic brain with attention. Serial killers drag out telling about their victims for decades, because reliving their crimes gives them pleasure, even if it is on the witness stand. Let him rot, also.

What I meant about reliving the past being tiring for me was as much about the abuses as it was about having lived as 'male' and wanting to forget that fact. I have been visiting here for less than a week, and in that time I have thought more about my 'male' past than I have in many years combined. I like not thinking about it, I love living without remembrances of that part of my life, I adore my newfound freedom to be a woman in everybody's eyes, especially my own.

But, it has been healthy for me to acknowledge my relationship to others with gender-variant experiences, and share and commune with those that can relate to such things as gender dysphoria, body dysmorphia, discrimination, and so on. Living in the straight cis world is amazingly comfortable for me, now that I can. But I also have to be honest with myself, I wasn't always so lucky. I have seen and done things no other straight cis woman has ever done, not to my knowledge, anyway, and only in a community such as this can I let down my firewall, and tinker on the work inside that remains undone. There is not much undone, but there is still enough to warrant making the effort. I want full healing, nothing less. And without help from those that can relate even a little bit, that work would go undone.

So, thank you for indulging me. I need this, too.

Missy

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Veda

Quote from: MissGendered on January 17, 2017, 05:07:10 PM
It is perfectly normal for a person to be outraged for me, and want to see justice done. Any time I have shared even a sliver of my past with a guy, they immediately want to hurt the brother that raped me, but that is about them, really, not about me. It would only bring more pain and humiliation on me, and it would feed the psychotic brain with attention. Serial killers drag out telling about their victims for decades, because reliving their crimes gives them pleasure, even if it is on the witness stand. Let him rot, also.

I can't say I'm outraged for you, nor can I say would I seek justice for you, those things belong to you.  You are obviously healing and that is very nice to know, and that is justice you provide to yourself.

If it were up to me you would be free of any participation at all, and allowed to be as you wish.

I would seek justice for the criminals sake, for them to confirm with their own recognition the evil they have done, for them to understand why they are being held accountable and for them to knowingly despair their actions.  I know that is unlikely to happen, but it is the end I would seek, not for me, and not for you, but to add to the common definition of right and wrong.

Thank you for your story.
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MissGendered

Quote from: Veda on January 17, 2017, 09:06:51 PM
I can't say I'm outraged for you, nor can I say would I seek justice for you, those things belong to you.  You are obviously healing and that is very nice to know, and that is justice you provide to yoursel

I wasn't implying you were, nor should be, I was just elaborating on how this information affects men I have told when I was dating them...

Thank you for your support, and the acknowledgement of healing.

Missy
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Veda

Thanks, my apologies if I have been overbearing, it's just that I get extremely angry over this kind of thing.

In my book, it falls under, or near, the category of eugenics, one of the most vile of human creations.

But that discussion is not something that belongs here.

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MissGendered

Quote from: Veda on January 18, 2017, 01:49:41 PM
Thanks, my apologies if I have been overbearing, it's just that I get extremely angry over this kind of thing.

In my book, it falls under, or near, the category of eugenics, one of the most vile of human creations.

But that discussion is not something that belongs here.

No worries, hun. I know you have your own stresses hanging over you these days, too.

I often refer to my medical treatment as a Nazi Doctor kinda horror story, so yeah, I get where you are coming from..

Honestly, though, in the scheme of things, at this point in my life, I am almost over getting over it, lol..

Life goes on, and most of life is not about me, anyway, ya know?

:-) Missy
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MissGendered

Sooo, yeah, here I am still, almost a week exactly since registering...

I wouldna thunk it, I had been doing fine on my own, mostly, since giving the ol' heave ho to online life and support groups and anything resembling gathering 'round peeps outside the center of the ol' cis bell curve.

But, lo, I have learned so much this time in the mix, about myself and all manner of peeps with views and lives like and unlike my own.

I finally figured out what it is that is at the center of my craving for a man, despite the fact that I still find pretty girls sooo yummilicious. I thought what I was looking for was the feeling of being desired, wanted, as a sex object, and the validation that my de-transition had left me looking pretty enough for a man to not notice that my body had once been altered so horribly. But what I realized today, while answering a post about HRT and sex, was that what I want, what I crave, is to be loved and desired by a man enough for him to envision me as the mother of his children, and to want to plant his seed inside me, and make me pregnant with his child. Damn. I did not see that coming, I was so wrapped up in 'passing' and 'lusting' and 'needing', that I overlooked the most basic thing taken from me, my fertility. I desire to be mated with the father of my children, to fulfill the birthright that I have been crying about losing, but never connecting with on a fundamental level. What I want, even if it cannot happen at this stage in my life, is to be seen as a fertile woman. Nay, to be experienced as a fertile woman!

I have been looking at this from the wrong end of the telescope.

Now, I have to ask myself this difficult question: "Can I fix my body and face enough to ever fool a man's basic instincts into seeing me as what I can never actually ever be?"

Am I on a quest for something that once stolen, can never be found again? Am I delusional about believing I can undo what has been done to me sufficiently to sip from that cup, so long after the deed was done? Lacking ovaries, do I just not 'smell' right enough for a man to lose himself inside me in that way? Sure, fetishists find me desirable, sure casual observers see me as pretty, sure men ask me out and buy me dinner, but the truth is, I have never had a man crave me like I feel I deserve to be craved, let alone loved on top of that need to inseminate me, again and again.

Women used to desire me as I now desire a man, even though I was sterile. Do men 'know' on some level, some basic, fundamental level, that I no longer have ovaries or a uterus? Is that what keeps them from bonding with me the way I need to be bonded with?

Holy crap, have I reached the limits of my womanhood, imposed from birth, and just now realized?

Damn.

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MissGendered

Soo, a good, long cry, and a nap, and a plate of nachos later...

And a quick re-read of what I wrote earlier...

Hmmm. Not something I relish thinking, nor believing, nor having to accept as true. But, it might really be possible that what I lack now, is not good looks, or intelligence, or a shapely body, but something deeper, something that I cannot fix, nor control, nor ever have. That sucks. I can reclaim my femininity, I can rebuild my body, I can find my true self, I can be authentic, be real, be me. But I can never be a mother to my own child, never give a man his child, our child, never know the joy of childbirth. Ok. As much as that is to swallow, maybe I can get over that, maybe I better start trying to get over that. But how do I get over the feeling that men may sense something that prevents them from being satisfied with me as a woman? How do I cope with that, if indeed, that is the obstacle I am having finding a man that suits my needs exactly?

The reality is that most women my age have no interest in having children, and most men my age have no interest in having any more kids, either, but in my recently re-feminized mind and body, I am just now approaching my childbearing years, my adolescence is only a recent thing, psychologically and emotionally. I am still not even old enough to buy beer. Funny, being a teenager after being alive so long, isn't it? I know I have this in common with transpeople, this untimely, though oh-so-welcome puberty, lol.

So, do I just 'grow up' and accept it? Do infertile teenage girls just 'accept it', does this issue hinder them as they seek a husband? It must, right? It must be heavy on at least some girls, if not all, right?

I know, in my logical mind, I think, I would tell such a girl that for the 'right guy' this won't be a 'thing', but is that really the right thing to think or say? I dunno. How many times would such a girl lose an otherwise great catch, just because she is barren.

OMG, that's it, I AM BARREN....

Yes, of course, there is stigma attached to this, as well as practical limitations.

Virile men, are they attracted to barren women?

My guess is, no.

Damn.
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