Discrimination/Jealousy within our own community?

[TigerLilyNYC]

Absolutely.  Amusingly enough, that means all my company in social environments outside the trans social support group (all not passing) are ciswomen. 

Passing transwomen with whom I have worked or have known in group therapy don't even acknowledge my existence.  Not really surprising, though.  I'm a risk.  When I get clocked, folks will also wonder about anyone I am with.  Passing transwomen don't want to lose privilege because of someone they are with.

Ciswomen don't think about 'failing to pass.'


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

This post hurt my heart, Michelle. I want better for us. Maybe in a few generations we will see people as people. But all we can do is try to be an example of that today as an individual until the rest of society catches up with us.

[Asche]

If you're non-binary, on the other hand, then you practically must have an open narrative in the first place, because without it you'll just get gendered on the binary by default.

Um, why is that a problem?

I don't care what they "gender" me as, as long as it's not male.  I don't have any inner sense of gender anyway.  I don't like being gendered male mainly because people make all kinds of assumptions and do all kinds of gender policing if they think I'm male.  (And I have horrible and painful associations with being gendered male.)

If they get to know me better, they'll hopefully develop a more nuanced picture of who I am, but that's what I'd hope for even if I were binary trans or even cis.

But if you want to be able to relate to other women the way other women relate to each other, it'll be much more difficult with an open narrative.  Not impossible, because a few women can be very open-minded; they can see the invisible self.

I guess it depends upon which women.  So far, my experience has been that the women in the circles I'm in have been pretty open with me, but I'm not sure whether it's my gender presentation or just how I am.  I think I've always related to people more like the way women usually do, anyway.

Although if you're defining yourself as non-binary, that's an experience far outside the realm of what most people can grasp.

I'm not defining myself as non-binary.  It's just a description of how I am.  Most people I know wouldn't know non-binary from a hole in the ground, and I'm okay with that (for me, at least.)

[MissGendered]

Passing transwomen with whom I have worked or have known in group therapy don't even acknowledge my existence.  Not really surprising, though.  I'm a risk.  When I get clocked, folks will also wonder about anyone I am with.  Passing transwomen don't want to lose privilege because of someone they are with.

Ciswomen don't think about 'failing to pass.'

This 'not acknowledging my existence' thing, it also happens to me. But not by MTFs...

I pass very easily, and not because I am XX intersex. My body was altered surgically and I was force fed T and human growth hormones until I looked indistinguishable from a tall, scary dude. My MTF transition was difficult, very difficult in some ways more than others, but I pass because I want to pass, and I did the work to make sure it became my daily experience.

But I am also generally ignored, sometimes even baited, by some in the community.

The non-binary individuals that I met in LGBT and support group settings did not ever acknowledge me in real life, and that also sometimes happens here. I can rest assured that if I post in an MTF thread, I will get a reply, usually by name. Not always so with non-binary or FTMs, not usually, unless it is to maybe take exception to my input. It seems that some react to me as if I were actually enforcing the binary just by existing.

So, that blade cuts both ways, and across broader categories than just the MTF subculture.

I'm just saying, we all make judgements, and act accordingly. And yes, we all have our reasons, whether reasonable, or not...

Missy

[Sophia Sage]

I don't care what they "gender" me as, as long as it's not male.  I don't have any inner sense of gender anyway.  I don't like being gendered male mainly because people make all kinds of assumptions and do all kinds of gender policing if they think I'm male.  (And I have horrible and painful associations with being gendered male.)

If they get to know me better, they'll hopefully develop a more nuanced picture of who I am, but that's what I'd hope for even if I were binary trans or even cis.

Most people I know wouldn't know non-binary from a hole in the ground, and I'm okay with that (for me, at least.)

I dunno, I think the vast majority cis people gender everyone else on the binary.  So if you're passing, you'll be gendered female.  If you're not, you'll be gendered as some kind of male, though the assumptions that usually follow with male gendering don't often apply when the person is question is also explicitly read as queer in some sense -- openly gay men do not get the same treatment as macho straight dudes. 

Even with passing, though, once the narrative is open the gendering that follows usually shifts.  You might still be gendered female... though often it will be provisionally, with an asterisk if you will... in other words, an "othering."  Which might be "not male" enough to satisfy you, and if so then more power to you! 

But having experienced both open and closed narratives, I can definitely say that at least for me the difference, though often subtle, was still palpable.  In the end, I find an open narrative leads to being "othered" often enough that's unacceptable to me, because implicit in that othering is a measure of male gendering.

And sometimes the opening of a narrative can yield full-scale opposite gendering.

Anyways, this just goes to show how different we all are.  For me, I need to be gendered according to my identity, so while I can intellectually grasp the assertion that it's possible to be okay with not being gendered (or ungendered) as such, it's something I really don't emotionally understand. 

I guess it depends upon which women.  So far, my experience has been that the women in the circles I'm in have been pretty open with me, but I'm not sure whether it's my gender presentation or just how I am.  I think I've always related to people more like the way women usually do, anyway.

Yeah, I found a greater degree of openness upon transition, when everyone knew my story... but I find a still greater degree of openness and ease in such conversations when my narrative privacy is in place. 

[Asche]

Yeah, I found a greater degree of openness upon transition, when everyone knew my story... but I find a still greater degree of openness and ease in such conversations when my narrative privacy is in place.

Whereas for me, I have a really hard time with the idea of hiding some part of myself.  (I could never be a spy.) The last 6 months before I came out at work were torture -- having to not tell anyone about what was such a big part of my life.  And there's a certain relief, now that I'm out at work, in knowing I don't have to act like I wasn't <deadname> six months ago.

It's not just about my gender.  As mentioned in other threads, I'm dealing with some really awful stuff from my childhood, but was trained that it was not okay to talk about the horrible experiences or the horrible feelings they burned into me.  Part of my journey to becoming a whole person has been to keep telling people about it, so that eventually I hope I will no longer feel that it's something I have to hide.  This is also me: someone who spent most of my childhood wanting to kill myself, still in a lot of pain from it, but trying hard to heal.

But that's just me.  Different strokes and all that.

[Mia]

 Miss Gendered said:
"I can rest assured that if I post in an MTF thread, I will get a reply, usually by name. Not always so with non-binary or FTMs, not usually, unless it is to maybe take exception to my input. It seems that some react to me as if I were actually enforcing the binary just by existing. "

Well said, my experience exactly in day to day life.

I'll never forget a support group meeting one night when a very well-passing MTF woman visited, I was the only person who spoke with her. I didn't get it back then, but now I realize no one else in the group identified as binary. I feel bad for her, she wanted support, community, and was met with cold bigotry from within.

[Kylo]

MTFs definitely have an affinity for one another. I'm on a few different boards and I see it all around. It's not wrong, and it's not unfair but they do tend to ignore FTM compared to their own. FTM tend to hang out in the FTM topics and are just less chatty I guess. I don't think they're actively hostile to you, but I sure get hostility in some places for existing. Hell someone told me to enjoy being a Nazi a few months back on a trans board because to them being a male equates to being a Nazi. That's one hell of a shoulder chip.

What bothers me about the divide is that we ought to understand each other much better than cis people understand the experience of the genders. I know things and you know things about the experience, and they can be of use. But the general way people treat each other makes me question whether I'm right about that at all. Maybe I can't relate much or help, because maybe my eyes have always been limited by what I am and the assumption I know what a woman deals with is really coming from some caged animal's deranged perspective. I don't know. My faith in people and in what I believed in myself has taken a nose dive these last couple of years, for a few reasons but the depressing plight of the community is one. I see a community of very isolated individuals, trying hard to connect but separated by many barriers. If something as profound as realizing these personal struggles have so much in common can't really break them down, I begin to wonder if there is a point in seeking to. If everyone lives behind impassable walls.

[barbie]

Has anyone ever experienced that?

No so much regarding discrimination, but yes, I have experienced some interesting responses of jealousy from women.

Some female employees in restaurants or stores are blunt, rude and unkind to me, but once they hear my low voice, they make a big smile with relief and suddenly become very kind to me. After that, they treat me as a kind of celebrity. I have a lot of female friends and admirers.

barbie~~

[Sophia Sage]

Whereas for me, I have a really hard time with the idea of hiding some part of myself.  (I could never be a spy.) The last 6 months before I came out at work were torture -- having to not tell anyone about what was such a big part of my life.  And there's a certain relief, now that I'm out at work, in knowing I don't have to act like I wasn't <deadname> six months ago.

It's not just about my gender.  As mentioned in other threads, I'm dealing with some really awful stuff from my childhood, but was trained that it was not okay to talk about the horrible experiences or the horrible feelings they burned into me.  Part of my journey to becoming a whole person has been to keep telling people about it, so that eventually I hope I will no longer feel that it's something I have to hide.  This is also me: someone who spent most of my childhood wanting to kill myself, still in a lot of pain from it, but trying hard to heal.

But that's just me.  Different strokes and all that.

Very well put.

Which is why it has to come back to who we are, the invisible internal self.  Like, for me, practicing non-disclosure doesn't feel like hiding at all, it's more like I'm practicing "active translation" if that makes sense.  What it really feels like is "letting go" of a former self that wasn't ever really me at all, so that "just me" can finally shine through in all my glory.

Having a closed narrative just feels right, and yields very different social experiences for me that I find beneficial to my well-being.  I feel like I'm part of the world, instead of separate from it.

I do have exceptions -- like, I haven't cut off my family, but then they gender me impeccably so that isn't an issue. My real exception, though, has been with other transitioners, depending on social context.  Because there's something about this experience that, I think, only other transitioners can really grok, and i something I have to talk about now and again, much more so the past three months or so since I started doing more "work" regarding my embodiment (losing weight, new hormone regimen, electrolysis touch-ups, etc) and have more work planned on the horizon. 

I know things and you know things about the experience, and they can be of use. But the general way people treat each other makes me question whether I'm right about that at all. Maybe I can't relate much or help, because maybe my eyes have always been limited by what I am and the assumption I know what a woman deals with is really coming from some caged animal's deranged perspective. I don't know. My faith in people and in what I believed in myself has taken a nose dive these last couple of years, for a few reasons but the depressing plight of the community is one. I see a community of very isolated individuals, trying hard to connect but separated by many barriers.

This is interesting -- but actually, I think it kind of makes sense.

Back in the day, I knew this guy "Jack" and he was the only FTM that ever came to support group, and part of why he was there was simply to support the woman he was dating (they ended up in a long-term relationship); he was pretty much done with transition at that point, with his top surgery complete, a really thick beard, great voice, etc.  Anyways, we talked about the fantasy of being able to swap bodies, wouldn't that be great, whereas even with pretty successful transitions we still have to deal with lingering problems of embodiment.

But he pointed out that there'd still be issues with family, and we'd still have missed out on so many formative years, unless you could pull it off at the age of five or something, which no one would allow in the first place.  So there's still the matter of dealing with some kind of dysphoria.  And that really struck me -- even after all is said and done, there's still work to do, there's still lingering dysphoria and how do we go about keeping it from striking again?  We avoid things that trigger it, that's how. 

So I think a lot if not most of the fractures in the community stem from coping with dysphoria, and I wonder if sometimes it's difficult to talk "across the aisle" so to speak, regardless of what side you're on, because there's this fear that something will come up that reminds us of what we've lost out on, and the dysphoria that comes from that realization. 

Plus, people with dysphoria are people coping with a lot of pain, and people coping with a lot of pain are more likely to... lash out, not because of what someone else did, but just because lashing out is something we do when we're hurt, at least a lot of us do.  I've lashed out in my pain, and it wasn't pretty. 

So, anyways, I think it makes sense that there are so many isolated individuals with barriers up, barriers that tend to stay up, just because we've learned to protect ourselves in so many ways all our lives.

[MissGendered]

MTFs definitely have an affinity for one another. I'm on a few different boards and I see it all around. It's not wrong, and it's not unfair but they do tend to ignore FTM compared to their own. FTM tend to hang out in the FTM topics and are just less chatty I guess. I don't think they're actively hostile to you, but I sure get hostility in some places for existing. Hell someone told me to enjoy being a Nazi a few months back on a trans board because to them being a male equates to being a Nazi. That's one hell of a shoulder chip.

What bothers me about the divide is that we ought to understand each other much better than cis people understand the experience of the genders. I know things and you know things about the experience, and they can be of use. But the general way people treat each other makes me question whether I'm right about that at all. Maybe I can't relate much or help, because maybe my eyes have always been limited by what I am and the assumption I know what a woman deals with is really coming from some caged animal's deranged perspective. I don't know. My faith in people and in what I believed in myself has taken a nose dive these last couple of years, for a few reasons but the depressing plight of the community is one. I see a community of very isolated individuals, trying hard to connect but separated by many barriers. If something as profound as realizing these personal struggles have so much in common can't really break them down, I begin to wonder if there is a point in seeking to. If everyone lives behind impassable walls.

Hi Kylo,

When I first started my journey, I was hurting, very badly, and I too had a horrid way of seeing men. The chip on my shoulder was more of a boulder, really, and I blamed it on both what men did to me, and what I knew men were doing to their unsuspecting wives and girlfriends. But, I never really did know what men were, no matter how much I may have looked like one, even though I thought for certain that I did. But that changed over time, with a ton of therapy, and what seems like endless hours of introspection. I had to really put myself out there, and make myself both available and vulnerable, and yes, I got hurt, more than once, but I also saw through the pain I had been carrying, and realized I did not really understand them, no matter how much Jung, or Bly, or Joseph Campbell I read. They are an enigma to me, an irresistible enigma.

I have said it elsewhere, though I did not think it up myself, that hurt people, hurt people. Our wider community is comprised of many subgroups of people that have been through the social meat grinder. Deranged, caged animals, yes, even I felt that way, back when I was T driven, and disconnected to my true self, my true life, my true feelings, so that much, I think I can relate to. The fact that cis/straight people all have a shared narrative of biological and reproductive 'normalcy' allows them to relate to each other rather consistently, even over cultural divides. In the gender-variant community, we have no such commonalities, our narratives are set against each others'. You were born bio-female, but are male identifying, your journey contradicts that of a bio-male that identifies as female. I am very binary-wired, what I crave, non-binaries either reject, or cannot fathom. There are far many more poles of opposition pushing and pulling against each other within our ranks. Our umbrella, it covers a group of people with very divided, often contradictory goals. Not so with straight, cis peoples. Their umbrella covers all of them without much division in goals and direction. We have to work harder than they do, just to create an inclusive language, let alone a set of non-offensive terms we can all agree upon and use equally well. I think it is amazing that we are having such a conversation as this one, amongst such varied participants, across oceans, metaphorical, and real.

As in cis culture, relationships are built one conversation at a time, over time, with respect, and concern about the feelings, and perceptions of others. In our wider community, we walk minefields of loaded terms every time we attempt to reach out, and share, or wish to be heard. This makes it much harder for us to navigate to a safe place, where we have a history of shared, safe, inviting interactions. Take our first interaction, we were certainly not hearing each other the way either of us desired to be heard. Yet, you overheard something I was saying here, and made an effort, and now, we are having the actual beginnings of a real conversation. I would posit that even in the face of our differences, we can also overcome the distance between us, by doing exactly what we are both doing now. We are listening, and sharing, and building trust. Yes, it is harder for us in the gender-variant world, we are all over the map, in so many ways, but we are all still humans with hearts.

Thank you for reaching out. It means more to me than perhaps you realize.

;-) Missy

[TransAm]

I semi-recently had a strange experience regarding possible 'alienation' within the community when I was at the courthouse trying to have my name and gender marker altered.
Long story short, there were four of us and the judge made us jump through some pretty ridiculous hoops to finalize the process. When it was all said and done, we were all funneled into a small room to wait while our documents were being prepared.

I'll be the first to say that, apart from posting on here occasionally, I have no real world experience with any other trans individuals. That being said, I was a little nervous and mildly intrigued by the prospect of casually chatting with them; there were two other FTMs and an MTF and all three of them had brought along two or three supporters.
I'm not saying this to brag by any stretch, but I 'pass' (urgh) very well and did pretty early on. Not a single person even bats an eye in my direction when I'm out and about.
I sort of tried to make my way over to chat with them (they'd already started to amalgamate) when I caught one of the FTMs in particular giving me a rough side-eye after looking me up and down. He put his back to me and the other two just sort of fell in line. I should note that none of them came together, so it isn't like I was being shut out of a group of friends. It was sort of one of those 'Yeaaaah, you don't belong' moments.
But I'll be damned if all the supports/cis people didn't chat me up like crazy. We were all joking, chatting about random topics and having a pretty good time. I continued to feel rough glances in my direction while this was going on.

Anyway, when all was said and done, everyone said goodbye to me... except for the other trans individuals, even -after- I wished them good luck. They simply continued to pretend I didn't exist.
I was a little baffled, to be honest. My mom and fiancée both commented to me after we left (without my prompting) that the other trans people were super cliquey and rude.
All of them were perfect strangers (I caught some of their conversations; they were not 'friends' type chats) prior to the court date. So what was the issue?
Again, without my prompting, both of them flat out stated that none of them 'passed at all' and cited their possible reason as jealousy.

It was a weird feeling, actually, to be wordlessly and unanimously shut out from a group of strangers that didn't even know one another.

[MissGendered]

Stone,

Thank you for sharing, your experience echos many of my own...

What an amazing thread this has become. Thank you to everybody that has participated, I am indebted to each one of you for opening my eyes to different perspectives, as well as for validating my own experiences.

Nice!

Missy

[Jacqueline]

I would hesitate, though, to make this a matter of being moral. 

Because it really depends on where you're at when it comes to your healing process.  If you have to withdraw for your own health, then withdraw.  There's no time limit -- it might be a lifetime, for all any of us know.  You just don't know.  For all I knew, I wasn't ever coming back to the community.  I just couldn't risk possibly stirring up my dysphoria. 

Being able to help isn't a moral compunction; rather, it's an expression of power, and a rather beautiful expression at that.  It's okay to be powerful, and it's okay to be powerless.

Sorry to bring this back after a few days.I tried to let this go but it kept nagging me.

Sophie Sage, I'm not looking to start an argument. I just felt my comments were taken a little out of context. I apologize if it seems that I was making sweeping proclamations and judgements. I try not to tell anyone what to do on this site. I think we have all had many telling us what to do to be "right"

I probably do come across as  a supporter of being moral. However, in this case, it was about the guilt some of us feel toward those who are not in as fortunate a situation as we are. My history both including my glacial realization of being trans and my Presbyterian upbringing has left me struggling with guilt for years. The point was not you have to do good. The point was more if you recognize it and can do something, do it. Of course if there is something stopping you that is equally valid, to refrain. For some it might just push it under to fester for a while. Hence my IOU suggestion.

I'm babbling now. The points I wanted to specify:

1)  being trans puts most of us into a guilty, shameful... state. Don't let yourself be trapped there again. If you recognize that, do something. Of course if it is just someone else who is jealous or discriminating, try to see why they are saying it and move forward(with action or without--up to the individual).

2) how well off one is financially, dna wise, passabillity(is that even a word), place along their journey...does not make their pain any less valid.

As I said sorry for taking the conversation back a few days. Work sucks me in now and then. Oh and thank you for the idea of helping as power. It was stance I had not thought of before. Like I said earlier, take or leave any suggestions I give.

Make it work for you.

Sincerely,

Joanna

[Sophia Sage]

I'm not looking to start an argument. I just felt my comments were taken a little out of context. I apologize if it seems that I was making sweeping proclamations and judgements. I try not to tell anyone what to do on this site. I think we have all had many telling us what to do to be "right"

Oh, I'm the one who should apologize; I didn't mean to imply that you were presenting a straightforward moral argument that I opposed. Sorry. Because yes, I agree that if we're in a position to help, we should, but I just wanted to clarify that not being able to help wasn't a matter of failing morals.

And I'm probably guilty of reading a bit too much into what you previously wrote.  It just reminded me of a conversation from many years ago, someone arguing that being an out and proud activist was a moral position, with the implication that a life of non-disclosure was not a moral position.  As if keeping a closed narrative was a matter of being purely selfish, instead of recognizing it as a therapeutic strategy. 

Yours,
Sophie

[Jacqueline]

Cool, thanks. Glad to know we're good.

I am by no means, an open narrative. One could be a little more closed but not by much.

You brought up really good points. I just felt I needed to clarify(might not have even needed it).

Warmly,

Joanna

[jjordynn]

And I DO feel bad about it, ashamed! I no longer really mention it when people within my country and community ask me about it, because I hate the sort of anger I've gotten in return.. It doesn't help that I try to explain how much I appreciate the incredibly fortunate situation I'm in.

I started a very successful business at 14 years old, and I'm 19 now. I have parents who have worked incredibly hard for what they have from being dirt poor growing up, without any help but themselves. So I completely understand when you say that you feel sort of ashamed to have the funds that are available whenever you need them. Especially when it's a situation that you just can't help (you can't control your job pay). All you can do is be incredibly thankful for what you have and live your life. I'm a relatively basic person that wears pretty cheap clothes.. but it seems that people will hate on you in the community when you have no financial struggle to get the cosmetic work you want, but god forbid you buy that new Chanel bag or those $1,400 pair of diamond earrings and you will only hear positive stuff when it comes to material items.. at least in my experience. It's a huge downer, and makes you feel ashamed indeed because all you did was work hard for your money.

[Floof]

I started a very successful business at 14 years old, and I'm 19 now. I have parents who have worked incredibly hard for what they have from being dirt poor growing up, without any help but themselves. So I completely understand when you say that you feel sort of ashamed to have the funds that are available whenever you need them. Especially when it's a situation that you just can't help (you can't control your job pay). All you can do is be incredibly thankful for what you have and live your life. I'm a relatively basic person that wears pretty cheap clothes.. but it seems that people will hate on you in the community when you have no financial struggle to get the cosmetic work you want, but god forbid you buy that new Chanel bag or those $1,400 pair of diamond earrings and you will only hear positive stuff when it comes to material items.. at least in my experience. It's a huge downer, and makes you feel ashamed indeed because all you did was work hard for your money.

Yea there is a bit of that; luxury goods are fine for some reason but.. The fact that I don't look at the prices when I decide which cucumber to get at the store really winds people up. I mean the differences in price are relatively small so I want to be able to reduce my carbon footprint and support my local farmers by buying their vegetables, even though they are a bit more expensive.. And this day-to-day carelessness with my money I think is what gets to people the most.. I don't have to penny pinch to save up for my operations.

And well done on running a business at 14! Very impressive, you must have a lot of drive.

[Asche]

Non-binary people face their own marginalizations in the trans community.

I've noticed that a lot of binary trans people, especially older trans women, have a lot of trouble with non-binary trans people.  Usually, they try to be polite, but you get the definite feeling they can't really believe that non-binary exists.  I've run into that here at Susan's.  And when they do try to figure it out, they still try to put it in a box, that non-binary "is" X or Y, and when an NB comes along that doesn't fit into the NB box they've constructed, they insist "that isn't what NB is."  It's quite wearing to deal with, and I've gotten in the habit of simply not talking about my NB-ness here most of the time.  There used to be a thriving NB community at Susan's, but after a blow-up which made many feel that NBs were not all that welcome, most of them left.

There are also the so-called LGBT centers that have stuff set up for trans-masculine and for trans-feminine, but have no place for non-binary.  (NYC "Gay center", I'm looking at you.)  The "everyone in a box" mentality excludes people who don't feel comfortable in any of them.

I'm one of the oldsters, the soon-to-fade-away generation, but I think there's also an age aspect.  Most NBs are fairly young (teens or twenties, maybe 30s), and there's the habit older people have of not taking younger people seriously.  I often get the vibe from them that more established (=older) people have kind of patted them on the head and implied that when they're older they'll give up this foolishness.

[Cailan Jerika]

Yes it's there, I'm not "really transexual" for liking punk rock, riding a Harley, interested in muscle cars, not wearing make up etc. Doing a gradual transition caused me a lot of earache, I grew my hair out, did a big chunk of electrolysis & was on HRT for 22 months before transition.

I would define growing hair out, electrolysis and HRT as transition in and of itself. Transition doesn't necessarily mean surgery, though for some it does. For many people growing their hair out, electrolysis and HRT are their entire transition, and consider their transition complete at that time.

[TransAm]

Non-binary people face their own marginalizations in the trans community.

I've noticed that a lot of binary trans people, especially older trans women, have a lot of trouble with non-binary trans people.  Usually, they try to be polite, but you get the definite feeling they can't really believe that non-binary exists.  I've run into that here at Susan's.  And when they do try to figure it out, they still try to put it in a box, that non-binary "is" X or Y, and when an NB comes along that doesn't fit into the NB box they've constructed, they insist "that isn't what NB is."  It's quite wearing to deal with, and I've gotten in the habit of simply not talking about my NB-ness here most of the time.  There used to be a thriving NB community at Susan's, but after a blow-up which made many feel that NBs were not all that welcome, most of them left.

There are also the so-called LGBT centers that have stuff set up for trans-masculine and for trans-feminine, but have no place for non-binary.  (NYC "Gay center", I'm looking at you.)  The "everyone in a box" mentality excludes people who don't feel comfortable in any of them.

I'm one of the oldsters, the soon-to-fade-away generation, but I think there's also an age aspect.  Most NBs are fairly young (teens or twenties, maybe 30s), and there's the habit older people have of not taking younger people seriously.  I often get the vibe from them that more established (=older) people have kind of patted them on the head and implied that when they're older they'll give up this foolishness.

That's an intriguing point of view that I'd never really considered very much.
It's funny how being trans doesn't necessarily equate to being understanding, per se, to the plight of another when it doesn't (somewhat closely) match our own narrative. I freely admit to not always 'getting' NB individuals--I grasp everything up to three genders but once it goes beyond that, it all gets a little hazy for me--but my 'getting' it is irrelevant and ultimately meaningless. I'm not sure why people think they have to fully understand something for it to be legitimate.
It's funny how a group of people all standing on common ground end up splitting into multiple factions; organized religion suffers from the same phenomenon.
Try putting a deep south Baptist in the same room as a Catholic and watch the heads roll (honestly, play 'mix and match' with any of the other sects in that sentence). Both believe their way is the way and all others (as similar as they may be) are wrong.

Regardless, I'm sorry that you and other NB's have been and/or felt marginalized.