Dysphoric vs Non-dysphoric

[November Fox]

Wondering what you guys & girls think about this.

I usually have trouble regarding the experiences of people who are not so dysphoric.
I mean, it´s fine. Not having a lot of dysphoria is good, I think. Of course dysphoria isn´t this static phenomenon either; it tends to shift over time, sometimes it´s worse than others.

I don´t know if it´s jealousy (to think that others may be more capable of dealing with their bodies), or the fact that it makes me uncomfortable that they do accept their body more. Their comfort with their body makes me more uncomfortable because on some level it makes me feel as if I should be comfortable with it too.

I know that this isn´t true. I also know that some people feel guilty that they do not experience as much dysphoria as others, as if it somehow diminished their "transgender-ness". Which is not true, either.

How do you experience this?

[Elis]

I think because I still have internalised transphobia I'm skeptical of trans people who say they don't have dysphoria at all. I feel that a trans person must at least have social dysphoria; because how could being referred to as your birth gender not make you feel at least slightly bad at least some of the time.

When it comes to varying degrees of body dysphoria in trans people tbh I haven't really given it much thought. Although this is probably because I'm nb and have been on T for over a year now; sort of forgotten almost completely how I felt pre T. To me it makes sense that there are trans people who are sort of ok with their bodies and  it doesn't me uncomfortable per se. It makes me slightly feel bad just because in general I should be more body positive; being trans has got nothing to do with that. I don't understand how anyone can like their bodies 100%. I'm guessing it just takes years of personal growth and becoming older to not care so much. At the old age of 23 I now am I'm slowly starting to get there (with the help of the right hormones) but I still have days when my body lets me down.

[Floof]

There most surely be some degree of dysphoria for any that wish to transition? Perhaps very mild, but something like a slight annoyance at being called by the wrong pronouns, or at the appearance of ones body; something? Or do some simply enjoy the idea of transitioning and think they would enjoy life more after doing so, but also dont feel any distress at all living as their born gender? I hadn't really considered that to be honest.

I would describe myself as a pulsing ball of dysphoria; it's quite a bit diminished since finally starting HRT but was a huge problem for me prior to that, and i still get hit by it in a big way now and then.. My genitals are by far the biggest cause and I really cannot deal with that thing at all, to the point where even being intimate with my past partners I would never want to involve it. I became extremely distressed when my last partner tried to force the issue several times during intimacy; this was 6 years ago and I havent dated since, so I guess you could say it rather spoiled romance for me . I am hoping to complete my surgery before pursuing a relationship again, even though I miss having one and surgery certainly being some time away still..

But I dont know if I can really compare emotions to what others feel.. People who say they feel less dysphoria than me may just be stronger and more secure people who handle the very same emotions I experience better than I do. I'm sure lots of transgenders hate their genitals just as much as I do, but are still able to look past them and focus on the act of intimacy rather than having the 'right bits' for it. I'm simply not strong enough to work past the discomfort and enjoy the moment.

[TomTuttle]

I'm not really decided on any sorta identity though. I know that what I feel though is:
Socially: Feminine things irritate the <not allowed> out of me in an unnecessary way. Not like, feminine people, just... So I like painting my nails occasionally while watching a film, alone (though not much or for long since I think my hands look more masc with short nails, no polish as usual). If someone starts a nail painting sesh around me it becomes suffocating and wierd. Similar to how I hate being in the women's departments of clothes shops. I feel insulted also if someone calls me a lady, or just some sort of loaded statement about my femininity. I also find that guys are easier for me to hang out with but will eventually have to point out that I'm a girl, whereas as much as I like hanging out with women they never take me in properly and find me to be an enigma. I also feel like I've hidden and not enjoyed a lot of my hobbies because of some sort of shame about their masculinity. And I have a complex about dating men because this makes them really treat me like a girl and it's awkward. Pronouns are just words and mean nothing to me. A window is grammatically female in french - these little things mean nothing (I get why it would to many people though). Oh and I also want to gag when butches talk about how their not trans because they love being female - like... Why?

Body: I feel fairly Zen about my body. Possibly because I never used to look in mirrors since I was a kid because I felt it was weird to see what I actually looked like. I always thought my ass was weirdly large when naked but how much naked mirror staring do I do? Vaginas are weird and I think mines weird and it's my elast favourite body part but I just have to be like, oh well genitals are weird, cos they are. It's also a very ignorable body part unless your having sex which I'm not. Naked I think I'd look unnaturally skinny without boobs and I like the nipple sensitivity and all but when I actually dress they ruin how I think I should look so they increasingly piss me off the more I actually start to look in the mirror when I dress. I also wear looser jeans so as to fill out my skinny legs. I have had weird moments where I feel like I need desperately to have a more masculine haircut or to bind to be what I want to see in the mirror... And I could do those things. I also want to do weight training. But as a whole my body is fine and I am less concerned with it that most female friendsive had (most male ones haven't expressed much babout such things)

Yes I'm not really sure how one would justify transitioning.when feeling not particularly distressed socially and pretty Zen physically as I described. The idea of being a guy is really cool to me but surgery for that reason... Nah mate not in this current state of mind.

[Kylo]

I don't know how others experience it.

But I do know for a long time I thought I was one of them. Someone who just didn't feel that bad about it.

Except that wasn't even true - as soon as I became aware of all the terminology, the studies, the options and what transsexual actually meant, and allowed time to think about it... peeled back some of the layers to look at what I felt underneath, and holy ****. Miles of dissociation and anger and resignation under there, rather than "not feeling all that much about it". I hadn't felt anything because I'd effectively mentally cut off half of myself or more to escape the torment. I'd also tried to forget about it by concentrating upon being in a relationship with someone.

Sometimes I wonder if it hasn't sunk in for some of those people yet. And when it does it'll hit them like a ton of lead, like it did me. Or maybe they genuinely don't feel that much of it. All cases are unique. Their cases don't affect mine though. I tend not to judge my own psyche issues too deeply by how others react to theirs. I don't understand how they could have such a lighter attitude to it - but they know their own selves best.

Sometimes it is frustrating to deal with this different attitude - I have a friend who "questioned their gender" at one point but who decided against doing anything about it and who seems to want to impress the idea you should just "accept yourself" instead of seeking any sort of change... someone who didn't feel strongly enough to act on it, and maybe were just exploring concepts. People seem to think others should do and think how they do and think and I don't agree with that. My mother was the same, she claimed in a conversation once to feel "more like a man" than a woman, but ridiculed my decision to transition because she herself never felt the need for it. I since think that neither of them are trans people, and I've come to define my particular type of trans as the kind that definitely needs medical intervention. It's easier to separate myself off from all the different types I meet who all have different ideas about what being trans is and how it should be dealt with, rather than lumping them together and trying to compare them all to each other. It is better to concentrate purely on what I need. That's pretty much how the medical professionals want to handle each case too. They must have realized somewhere down the line you can't blanket-treat trans people. They're too diverse.

[p]

It might be worth thinking about how some people's bodies and gender presentations are already more or less "typically" masculine / feminine. For instance, I am AMAB and, while I don't quite know where my identity is headed, I have not been experiencing a crushing amount of dysphoria. However, I am slender, my body hair is very thin and light in color, I didn't have to start shaving until college, and I had been growing my hair long for months before realizing exactly why. I've been identifying as gay and am married to a man. I have always been bullied for being "too feminine." So while I'm AMAB, my gender expression has already strayed far from the norm. That, combined with some genetic luck, is helping me out. And perhaps a huge amount of denial, as Kylo rightly points out.

[TomTuttle]

Definitely, Kylo, nobody should make it seem like you should just suck up dysphoria that's ridiculous. I've also never yet claimed to be trans with my comfy little self, just constantly a little confused. And not always totally comfy. Also I find a lot of women of past generations who had careers where they had to deal with men and breaking people's expectations of them like to go on about being just like a man. Yet they love feminine things and i wonder where they get that idea from.

[FTMax]

Oh boy. Time to make myself unpopular.

There is research out there that says trans people have the brain structure of their gender and not their designated sex at birth. This is what causes dysphoria. In order to alleviate dysphoria, a person undergoes transition to the degree that is right for them. Therefore, being trans is a maladaptive condition which causes distress and requires medical intervention to correct.

I view being transsexual as a medical condition which is defined as having some degree of dysphoria. I think more people experience dysphoria than they are consciously aware of, and I also think it is very common for these feelings to start and often linger as social dysphoria. A lot of people I find either flat out don't recognize the discomfort and anxiety for what it is, or push it out of their mind as "not enough" because they aren't too put off by their junk. I was one of those people for a very long time.

In my experience, and in the experiences of many post-op trans men that I have read, it is also fairly common for social dysphoria to go away throughout the course of transition while sex dysphoria becomes more pronounced. So in line with that, I also think a lot of people looking at it from the outside thinking "ehhh I'm not dysphoric enough to do XYZ" might actually be that dysphoric when push comes to shove.

And on the flip side, I think there are a lot of confused people out there who for whatever reason have picked up the "trans identity" and are clinging to it when they should not be. This bothers me a lot, as I most often find it to be rooted in sexism. Often what I hear from these people is that they feel like/identify as a man or woman, behave like a man or woman, and relate to the label of man or woman. This implies that all men and women behave, feel, act, etc. in exactly the same ways and that being a man or woman is a universal experience. You can be a masculine woman. You can be a feminine man. It's internalized sexism to assume that you must be trans because you don't fit this idea of masculinity or femininity that you've created in your head for your birth sex.

I believe all trans people experience dysphoria to a degree. To what degree that is, is highly personal and variable. I believe anyone who claims to not experience dysphoria at all is either not trans and/or needs to really evaluate what made them think they were in the first place.

It's frowned upon in society to have a medical condition. Nobody wants that for themselves. We stigmatize it. And I think that's a big hurdle for a lot of people to get over when it relates to themselves. They put the blinders on and just keep moseying along because it's easier in this time to self identify as trans than it is to admit that you have a medical condition that's causing you some issues that you've ignored.

[Kylo]

In my experience, and in the experiences of many post-op trans men that I have read, it is also fairly common for social dysphoria to go away throughout the course of transition while sex dysphoria becomes more pronounced. So in line with that, I also think a lot of people looking at it from the outside thinking "ehhh I'm not dysphoric enough to do XYZ" might actually be that dysphoric when push comes to shove.

Yeah. If anyone'd asked me 3-4 years ago if I was bothered by the idea people like me had more problems finding partners to date because of the issues of disclosure and the "physical limitations" of our condition, I'd have said no, what do I care. If they asked me did I care about the results of lower surgery not being perfect I'd have said no, I don't care. If they asked if I give a damn about any of that side of things I'd have said no. If they asked me was I going to start fretting about height, jaw structure, etc. I'd have said no.

Now I'm actually pretty angry about these things. It's as if they were all frozen before, but have started to thaw out and dumped themselves in a pile in my brain. And more than just those issues since I started this 'journey' that for whatever reason I never had to face before because the trans thing without treatment had me in some kind of stasis, I guess. I'm struggling to keep up with them as they come out of containment. I didn't expect dysphoria of those to increase at all. The more normal I start to feel, the more narked off I become that I'm still not normal.

So... there may well be unexpected dysphoric episodes round corners, even for those who don't feel especially bad at the start.

[cheryl reeves]

I'm the odd one for I am scientific when it comes to dealing with my issues,i access the situation,disect it,look at it from all sides then I face the problem and move on. I've always knew I was a female living in a male world because I had the genitals of a male,then puberty grew to a aa cup breast,that was a experience in itself here I as uppose to be male but I had female attributes which attracted bullies it was life. I was going too transition to fill female then I met the women who would be my wife and I wanted children she wanted children so I made adjustments and later me and my wife made another adjustment. I still present as male but people know me as a male and I have a good reputation. I am out of the closet and quite a few people know but it's something we not talk about. I have a fear of high places but will be the first one up,i have faced all my fears and my fears lost. I am at peace with myself.

[Danielle834]

I am kind of one of those people that feels guilty that I do not experience as much dysphoria as others, as if it somehow diminishes my "transgender-ness".  Some of the comments made by FTMax don't help me work through that either, but I try not to let it get me down.

I don't experience what I understand to be dysphoria in a textbook sense.  Do I feel that my body isn't a match...yes.  Do I think all the angles and hair are yucky...yes.  But do I feel as though I am in crises and have to remedy this NOW...nope.

I figure age must be a factor in my case.  This body has carried me through 39 years in a life that is fulfilling in many ways.  My loving wife was attracted to this body.  This body fathered 5 kids.  After all this time, I suppose there is a certain level of acceptance.

Corny analogy alert!  Have you ever had a ugly old car that accepted and even had some affinity for?  Maybe it didn't match your personality and it was ugly but darn if it didn't see you through jobs, relationships, college or whatever else.  Sure you didn't like it and you wanted it gone, but maybe you didn't hate it.  Well I see this ugly old body as a vehicle for my soul.  It's ugly and doesn't match me, but I don't hate it.  It's just high time that I trade it in for one that matches who I really am.

[Janes Groove]

It's as if they were all frozen before, but have started to thaw out and dumped themselves in a pile in my brain.

I agree that transition has this effect. Also, if one is considering medically transitioning, one should consider that where one is pre-transition, is often not where one will be as the medication begins its work and delivers very real cognitive changes as well. Some things that weren't such a big deal before, suddenly pop up as new priorities.  So yeah part of it is thawing out, but part of it is the changes that are engineered by the medications as well. But then the whole point of transition is TO CHANGE.  We accept this going in, at least if we have done our homework, that the changes are unpredictable and highly variable based on the individual.  Medical intervention should never be taken lightly, but if one just can't continue in the old ways knowing they weren't working anymore it does provide a path forward.

Also, just coming out and being out causes some pretty significant ideational changes as to how and why we relate to our social support system the way we do as well. 

[Tessa James]

Ever have someone ask you, Whats wrong, why are you feeling so bad? and you are unable to answer with certainty?

Due to the persistently stigmatized and even hated and marginalized minority status of being a transgender person it seems little wonder we might develop gender dysphoria.  Having a dysphoric feeling is, as our dictionary notes, a generalized sense or feeling.  Therefore being aware of this feeling of generalized unease and dissatisfaction is in itself a break through for many of us.  Understanding the source of our feelings and connecting the dots can then take a lifetime for some of us.  I simply didn't know how hard and how well I had been repressing, coping and acting like i should.  I invested big time in staying busy and not reflecting on the constant sense that something is so wrong with me.  I crossdressed for years and forgot about it.  I did not accept myself as trans until I had the time and safety in retirement to work through the dysphoria and determine the real source.  Only then did it become gender dysphoria for me.

My career was in anesthesia and I understand pain.  Our pain and suffering can be quite real without our being able to accurately locate or diagnose the cause.

[TomTuttle]

Yes, as Tessa James said, I think one can often bury ones feelings for seemingly practical reasons in such a way that it becomes less obvious where they are coming from in the first place. I've watched many a YouTube video of now fully transexual people who did not know for a long time they were trans, they were just consumed by depressive feelings and an inability to fit in and find themselves that they infuriatingly could not put their finger on. For example Aydain Dowling talks about rampaging around furious at everything for no apparent reason. And others talk about slightly less dramatic manifestations but similarly abstract.

[FTMax]

I am kind of one of those people that feels guilty that I do not experience as much dysphoria as others, as if it somehow diminishes my "transgender-ness".  Some of the comments made by FTMax don't help me work through that either, but I try not to let it get me down.

Saying you don't experience as much dysphoria as others implies that you do experience dysphoria. My issue is with people who experience no dysphoria who would say they are trans despite that fact.

[Danielle834]

That's a fair distinction.  Thank you for the clarification.  What stood out to me was that you 'believe anyone who claims to not experience dysphoria at all is either not trans and/or needs to really evaluate what made them think they were in the first place.'  I see now that you say 'at all'.  I'm still learning a lot and where I missed the mark is that I suppose dysphoria is a broad scale.  I have a tendency (incorrectly) to think of dysphoria generally being a crisis feeling.  That you are repulsed by your body and that you HAVE to get it changed NOW.  That is something that I don't feel, just a sense that my body isn't attractive, doesn't match and that I want to change it in due time.  To your point, I suppose that is dyspohria too, just elsewhere on the scale.  Thanks again for the clarification.

[Michelle_P]

I've had a number of conversations with folks who both cross-dress and claim to be non-dysphoric.  Things get interesting when I ask them about why or how often they cross-dress.  The answer is often 'I need to', or 'I feel better when I do', and when talking about how often, it's often driven by a sensation of need or longing.  That sounds awfully familiar...

They are not non-dysphoric, in my opinion, although they are of course welcome to their own opinion and may be more comfortable with denial.  I suspect that dysphoria comes in a range of intensities, and rather than being non-dysphoric, is just fairly mild with some folks who still land under the transgender umbrella.

[cheryl reeves]

Don't get me wrong I had major disphoria when I was 13 -14 but I read a lot and study a lot so I studied myself through the resources on hand and found that was driving my anger issues for I fit nowhere and had few friends so I turned to pot and booze and then things changed when I got married and still carried the burden alone even knowing my wife knew for I told her early in before we got married but never fully acted on it,til the day I tried to sabatoge our relationship and he wouldn't take no for a answer then I leveled withe her and our relationship for better. My disphoria was due to puberty giving me a girls puberty and not a male one.

[RobynD]

Much of my original dysphoria was about the social, not about the physical parts of me. For instance, I had a lot of athletic performance to tell me that my body at least could do things well. But, I badly needed to be with women socially and for them to recognize me as one of them. This consumed much of my brain cycles.

I don't feel like the lack of much physical dysphoria makes me less trans. I do envy like pretty much everyone else, when others have it easy in areas that i struggle, but then i remind myself the they envy stuff about me.

As my body changed, i have become more physically focused for sure and that is a new feeling for me, so we will see how that unfolds, perhaps i will develop envy there, perhaps not. 

[WolfNightV4X1]

Thats an interesting question, I agree with and relate to everything stated above.

With me, I definitely started out not understanding if I was transgender or not, and didnt think I felt dysphoria and thought I couldnt be validated as transgender. I dont think I even understood what dysphoria was.

Turns out after all I DID experience dysphoria, it became more obvious when it clicked and I realized I may be trans. Looking back I did not like puberty. Looking back I was apathetic to certain aspects of my body, I didnt like it all that much, it just seemed 'off'. I was "okay" with being a girl, Ive never considered myself ugly and I saw myself as fairly attractive, I kind of just ignored it and lived with it and was myself, I was "okay" I often told myself, I wasnt highly depressive or experiencing suicidal tendencies. Thing is, I realized I like the idea of being male even more, that it made me happier. The idea of top surgery greatly appealed to me and I started to dream of it, and I realized my small chest that Ive always been confused about and ungirly is my greatest asset until I can transition. I liked the idea of being a feminine male, I knew I wasnt going to change myself in drastic ways and being a guy that way helped me realize where I lie. When I started realizing I could go from "okay" to happy, I started to feel better.

I think I never realized it, but the dysphoria seemed to clamp down on my confidence levels, Im a little less anxious and a little more confident being a guy. Funny how I never knew that all along.


Dyshoria to me was just discomfort, nothing extreme like suicidal tendencies or depression, but a lot of the times a deepset feeling of apathy and resentment, of not caring all that much and trying to find ways to care about myself even though I knew I was attractive. It was learning to handle the strangeness I felt with certain traits of my body.


Ive come to accept some things. I still want top surgery, but Ive accepted some feminine or female traits as part of myself as being a man. I still am small, have a little bit of a female figure, and female genitalia. Im okay with these, and the last one mainly because that cannot easily change. Ive learned that despite these Im still a man like I feel, and Im still happy and comfortable that way and learned to accept those things.
Most people might consider the fact I can accept certain aspects of myself and be happy as odd, but the important thing is I look like a male, act like a male, feel like a male, and have changes in masculinity where it counts.

I find it weird when people dont feel any kind of physical or social discomfort, otherwise it just seems as if they are doing it for fun, for recognition, or because of misinformation. I understand people can also just be confused as I was, though. Therefore no matter how skeptical I am of someone else its important for them to make their own decisions on what makes them happy. Most people need to talk out their feelings and be informed when deciding, and in the end its about what makes them happy amd thats up to themselves to learn truthfully.